SSA SPOILERS: He's WHO?!


Abraxxus

 

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Originally Posted by Issen View Post
...Co-op content with a heroic slant? If we're referring to Incarnate, that's about as netural as you can get, and the ITF and LGTF aren't Heroically-slanted either.
I wrote a really long response to this, but then realized that 1) No one cares. And 2) It's vastly off-topic. This thread is about SSA spoilers and I don't want to derail it any further.

The topic of heroic villains is better left for another day.


Thought for the day:

"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."

=][=

 

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Originally Posted by Issen View Post
I would, but I don't HAVE a villain. I typically never play redside except for Patron Pools. I mean, I'm on Virtue, the RP server, and redside is STILL dead.

(That and I suck at writing villains. They all wind up anti-villains)
You do have the option of letting just one of your characters go vigilante. That'd let you experience red-side when you need to.


Thought for the day:

"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."

=][=

 

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Originally Posted by Issen View Post
Also, anyone who did it Redside. Do we know WHY they wanted Alexis dead? Was there any reason given?
Actually, there were two reasons given:

1. Vial of blood taken by Wade. Miss Liberty having been a long-lived super and daughter of Statesman is obviously an Incarnate, or, at least, an Incarnate-potential. Blood of the Incarnate... where have I heard that before? Although, it's surprising Wade took blood, since he usually deals with samples of hair.

2. Setting up Manticore to allow Miss Liberty to die will isolate Statesman and fracture the Freedom Phalanx.

At least we know this isn't an Arachnos plot since Miss Liberty is the leader of Freedom Corps of which Longbow is military arm (headed by Ms. Liberty). That alone would have been enough for Arachnos to want here gone. But Freedom Corps wasn't mentioned.


As to who offed her: Wade gives you the chance to do it. If you decline, he does it.


Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides

 

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Originally Posted by Issen View Post
So basically the entire point of her death was solely to piss people off so that whoever is pulling the strings can make their next move? All while the Heroes are left scratching their heads and unable to fight back.

Yeah, suddenly I have no problems with the way Longbow is written any more. I saw a few posts in this thread alone about how bad Ms. Liberty and Longbow are. Now I have zero issues with it.
I have zero issue with Longbow and Ms Liberty being extremist nutcases. What I do have issue with is when they are presented as such, while the story makes it clear that they aren't. That makes them unintended villains, and that's kinda sad.

The difference is that while Longbow and Ms Liberty are supposed to live up to some kind of heroic ideal (even if when don't do so in practice, it's still written like they do), villains don't (necessarily) live up to any ideals.

Hurting someone for the sole purpose of hurting your real enemy, or make them come at you stupid, is a perfectly villainous thing to do. As a story, I don't have a problem with that. Of course, the execution can leave something to be desired (I haven't played through it myself, but I'm guessing it does).


Thought for the day:

"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."

=][=

 

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Originally Posted by Slaunyeh View Post
I have zero issue with Longbow and Ms Liberty being extremist nutcases. What I do have issue with is when they are presented as such, while the story makes it clear that they aren't. That makes them unintended villains, and that's kinda sad.

The difference is that while Longbow and Ms Liberty are supposed to live up to some kind of heroic ideal (even if when don't do so in practice, it's still written like they do), villains don't (necessarily) live up to any ideals.

Hurting someone for the sole purpose of hurting your real enemy, or make them come at you stupid, is a perfectly villainous thing to do. As a story, I don't have a problem with that. Of course, the execution can leave something to be desired (I haven't played through it myself, but I'm guessing it does).
Except that Longbow is only "extremist" in 2 morality missions blueside. Ms. Liberty/The Vindicators/Longbow are supposed to be the result of a desire to be more "proactive" against Villains, rather than just waiting for a plot to go down and THEN react to it.

For me, it's indeed the execution. The plot itself is a fine one. But unless they intend to end this SSA with a suitably epic Heroic Sacrifice, so far I'm not impressed with the story.


 

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
The Shining Stars and whatever Dr. Graves' cadre of idiots is called are in a lot of new content.
Just honest curiosity but what other missions than the training arcs are the Shining Stars in? (I've not done all the villain training arcs so I'm not as familiar with those characters). I know from this thread that they appear villainside in WWDp3. Is there anything else?


"The best thing about being a robot duplicate of Lord Nemesis is, well... Everything."

 

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
The Shining Stars and whatever Dr. Graves' cadre of idiots is called are in a lot of new content. It was disappointing, but not surprising to see this. Every time a new writer sits down to write, he or she makes new recurring characters that show up everywhere. Take, for instance, Faultline and Fusionette. They showed up in I8's Faultline remake, then they were almost everywhere in I10's Rikti War Zone revamp. Then Praetoria showed up, and for a while everything we got had to involve the Praetorians in some way or another.

Once upon a time, players complained that none of our contacts were memorable and none of the named bosses were meaningful as they didn't show up again after being defeated. This was somewhat rectified as far back as the I1 arcs where Crimson and Indigo have lots of personality, Melvin keeps showing up, Moment keeps showing up, Nemesis makes several appearances, C'Khelkah turns up a few times and so forth. However, it wasn't until Faultline that we had characters who showed up across a huge level range and "levelled up" with players, as it were. For instance, when Fusionette first shows up, she has a regular tights costume, but when she shows up again in the War Zone, she's sporting Vanguard gear.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of this, for the simple fact that if you don't like the characters to begin with - and I don't like any of the Shining Stars beyond Twinshot - it starts to wear on you. It also makes the world feel much, much smaller. Once upon a time, if a hero needed to become involved in a story, that was a hero of the city with his own story and past, but it was a different hero every time. That's to be expected in a City of Heroes. With this many, running into the same one twice should be rare. Even on bank heist, you still had a pool of heroes who could turn up to stop you, it's not always the same one every time.

Now, though, we seem to keep running into the same heroes over and over and over again. Why? What's so important about Twinshot and her wacky miniboss squad that means they have to be in EVERY mission where a non-signature hero is required? You'd think in a city this big with this many heroes, you'd occasionally run into someone you haven't met before. But no, it's always Twinshot and the Shining Stars, because they're the current fad.

I want to point out that this really isn't a big complaint of mine. Recurring characters are not a bad thing. I was happy to see Duke Mordrogar show up as a CoT possessed mage, I'm always happy to see General Aarons show up in missions that concern matters of national security and I appreciate having Akharist turn up again and again to address matters of magic. If the cameo is rare, or it makes sense, it's always pleasant. If it's just for the sake of ramming familiar faces down our throats, though, I'd like to pass. This city should have more heroes in it than just those five.
Actually, I've got no issues with the Shining Stars at all really. I find them (as characters) to be fine additions. They're certainly more memorable than Dr. Graves and the Hearts of Darkness. I'm just surprised they showed up in an SSA. But then a LOT of what's in the SSA seems to imply that the people running them are new. For example, SSA #1 and the Lost hinting at "their masters", who any Vet knows is the Rikti. But any new player won't know that.


 

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Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds View Post
Out of curiosity, while playing the Redside version of this episode, did anyone else get a message that they had defeated Proton, after defeating the three Shining Stars in the last mission? Proton wasn't there, but I seem to have defeated him anyway?
No, I noticed that too. I assumed it was yet another one of the typos that afflict new content.


34 heroes,
20 villains, Victory, Justice, Infinity, Virtue, Triumph, Exalted -- some more active than others

 

Posted

As to whether this is a case of Women In Refrigerators, the answer is unequivocally "Technically, Yes" because the definition is so broad.

That's unimportant.

Tropes are not bad, and like most tropes, WIR can be used effectively to make a good story.

What is important is that it was not so used in this case, based on my playthrough of, and emotional reaction to, the villain half.

I am not saying the writing was bad overall. I liked the overall pacing, the reveal of who '???' was, the delivery of the dialogue and many other things.

That said:
- The villain-side story did not adequately establish that Miss Liberty is Statesman's daughter and Ms. Liberty's mother. Even I was momentarily confused. A scene between the two of them, with Miss Liberty admonishing her to be careful or the like would have added to the story emotionally and informationally.

- The villain-side story did not give us a cut scene or other adequate setup as to why she was sent to perform the negotiations (other than that she was the target). She almost could have been ye genericke ambassador. She really needed a scene establishing her credentials with insightful dialogue, something to establist that she was competent, noble, and important in her own right.

- She spent the whole time being kidnapped and cowering. As she was a former superheroine in her own right, I would have expected to fight her (even if she were horribly underleveled to reflect her loss of the Liberty Belt) and defeat her to deliver her to Malaise and Wade. As an alternative, a scripted event where she escapes by some clever ruse and I have to chase her down would have been nice.

- She just gets shot and dies. No defiant last quip. No empty threat about angering Statesman, or hollow expression of faith that he would save her at the last minute. No special sad music. This is not how a former hero should go out. Not even in a villain-centric story.

I think the above objections are more important than the fact that a female character dying in a comic-book-like setting will unavoidably be an example of Women In Refrigerators: I want to care more about Who Dies.

To the writers of Who Will Die:

In the next four months, we have Statesman, Manticore, Citadel and Sister Psyche to cast the spotlight on.

Please take the time to make us care about these characters as more than pictures on the loading screens, TF givers, opponents, and pets.

As a story-oriented player, I want stuff. Story stuff. Emotional stuff. Relationship stuff. Humanizing stuff. I want to feel why these guys are the premier heroes of the world, what they inspire, how they make it day to day.

The neat new enemies and mechanics are nice, and I like them. Please also include things like:

Statesman: Where does our Marcus Cole live/eat/shop? Is he anachronistic and preferring a 'simpler age', or is he thoroughly modernized, with a Twitter account and blog? Does he show any signs of Emperor Cole's power lust, or is he baffled as to the evils of his alternate selves? What about his old con-man/heist-meister days...does he have nostalgia or is he ashamed of them? What does the word "Statesman" mean to him; does he feel he represents the USA these days, the hero community, or something else? As the premier hero of the world, does he have disdain for unproven young heroes, or a distant but fatherly regard for them? If he dies, what will we lose?

Sister Psyche: How crazy is she; does she isolate herself to escape the voices in her head, meditate/medicate, or just endure? Why "Sister" Psyche; is she Catholic? (Yes, go there) How is she adapting to married life; is she a domestic type or does she have some kind of hobbies or career outside of herodom? How does she feel about Aurora Borealis and Calvin Scott, particularly in the current circumstance with Praetoria? Is she a feminist? Why does she use her powers for heroic ends, especially contrasted with her Praetorian counterpart? If she dies, what will we lose?

Manticore: Manticore we know some things about, like his lifestyle, his contentious relationship with Statesman, his marriage, his public identity, and his underhanded dealings with the government. He is clearly both the shadiest and most proactive Phalanxer; possibly a Vigilante. However, here is an opportunity to explore his Heroic side, or to explore the fact that he is a pure Vigilante only a final Tip away from Villainhood.

Citadel: The least known Phalanxer. There is tons to reveal here, from the extent of his programming and the nature of his sentience, to his relationship with other digital intelligences. How does he feel about the Internet? What does he beleive about the nature of the soul? How does he feel about media portrayals of beings like himself? Does he dream of electric sheep? How was he accepted as a Phalanxer? Does he have hobbies, preferences, aspirations? If he dies, what do we lose?

Much of the above info may be on the forum somewhere or in a novel somewhere: this is an opportunity to get it into the game.

After all, this is our last chance to interact (outside of Ouroboros) with one of these people.

...and don't feel shy about going back to fill in the blanks with Synapse and Numina as well. I'd love to get Numina's perspective of death and the afterlife, as well as Synapse's take on why Neuron is a genius and he ...isn't.


Story Arcs I created:

Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!

Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!

Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!

 

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Originally Posted by Venture View Post
The point is that the trick only works because of the medium, which makes it cheap.
I disagree. In this instance, I'm filing it under 'clever use of the medium'.

If I was reading a novel, I would not call foul on being surprised by a reveal because it's a literary medium that took advantage of the fact that for instance I could not actually hear a scene. When Lovecraft falls back on saying something is indescribable or whatever, I roll with it.

Same kinda deal.


Story Arcs I created:

Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!

Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!

Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!

 

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Originally Posted by Issen View Post
Except that Longbow is only "extremist" in 2 morality missions blueside. Ms. Liberty/The Vindicators/Longbow are supposed to be the result of a desire to be more "proactive" against Villains, rather than just waiting for a plot to go down and THEN react to it.

Well there was that time when Longbow decided Vanguard couldn't be trusted and tried to stage a hostile take over the frontline of the Rikti War, during the middle of said war.

Plus the Longbow presence in the Rogue Isles kind of violates tons of international laws.

Oh and their operating procedure for Praetoria is shoot first and don't ask questions.

Not exactly a heroic rap sheet.


 

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
The moment Jean said "You are next." is the moment I knew I wouldn't be playing any of the other SSAs, because what you describe is probably what's going to happen. I simply have no interest in seeing that. I've had enough of characters being tortured and dehumanised to pander to the public's bloodlust.
To be fair, the Freedom Phalanx characters, as a group, are so utterly flat that it's really not possible to dehumanize them any further than they have been since day one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Issen View Post
Except that Longbow is only "extremist" in 2 morality missions blueside. Ms. Liberty/The Vindicators/Longbow are supposed to be the result of a desire to be more "proactive" against Villains, rather than just waiting for a plot to go down and THEN react to it.
This "proactive" approach has also resulted in them unlawfully invading a sovereign nation, concealing their activities by hiring rogue mercenaries, impeding an effort to protect the rest of the world from alien invaders, and unilaterally declaring every single person from a certain alternate dimension as "evil".

I'd say at least a couple of these are justifiable. However, that doesn't stop Longbow from being the very incarnation of self-righteous vigilantism.


 

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Originally Posted by Kitsune9tails View Post
I disagree. In this instance, I'm filing it under 'clever use of the medium'.

If I was reading a novel, I would not call foul on being surprised by a reveal because it's a literary medium that took advantage of the fact that for instance I could not actually hear a scene. When Lovecraft falls back on saying something is indescribable or whatever, I roll with it.

Same kinda deal.
Got to agree, he does have the same hair even.


 

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Originally Posted by Kitsune9tails View Post
- She spent the whole time being kidnapped and cowering. As she was a former superheroine in her own right, I would have expected to fight her (even if she were horribly underleveled to reflect her loss of the Liberty Belt) and defeat her to deliver her to Malaise and Wade. As an alternative, a scripted event where she escapes by some clever ruse and I have to chase her down would have been nice.

- She just gets shot and dies. No defiant last quip. No empty threat about angering Statesman, or hollow expression of faith that he would save her at the last minute. No special sad music. This is not how a former hero should go out. Not even in a villain-centric story.
These are really the only points I agree with. The contact goes on for multiple paragraphs setting up the scene. Everything about who Alexis is (Statesman's Daughter), why she's involved (trickery the US government falls for and she agrees to), what Blitz instends to accomplish (blackmail) are all spelled out. The rest comes out during the final mission when things get twisted around.

But I do agree that Alexis should have been more heroic with a more fitting end than a bullet. We do have to remember that she was helpless at the end so it wasn't like she could get any last quips off - she got out her threats and hollow expressions during the kidnapping and that could have been handled better.

Overall though, I liked the story, both hero and villain with a slight edge to the villain story which was more satisfying because you know more and don't have to fight those annoying arachnoids.


 

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Originally Posted by Kitsune9tails View Post
If I was reading a novel, I would not call foul on being surprised by a reveal because it's a literary medium that took advantage of the fact that for instance I could not actually hear a scene. When Lovecraft falls back on saying something is indescribable or whatever, I roll with it.
Given that with his background, Malaise's identity should be well-known to pretty much everyone, it's fairly cheap, to my mind. If they used someone whose name and face weren't public knowledge (which, admittedly is...pretty much no one major that I can recall), that would be one thing, but this is entirely another.

Mysteries are far more entertaining when they "play fair", as it were. When things are set up so that every character knows a fact, but the reader/viewer/player doesn't, that's not especially fun, because the writer is essentially "cheating" to conceal information. It's like playing football, only you just think you're playing football, but you're actually playing a variant where there are two balls in each play, but only the opposing team knows that.


 

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Originally Posted by Kitsune9tails View Post
- She spent the whole time being kidnapped and cowering. As she was a former superheroine in her own right, I would have expected to fight her (even if she were horribly underleveled to reflect her loss of the Liberty Belt) and defeat her to deliver her to Malaise and Wade. As an alternative, a scripted event where she escapes by some clever ruse and I have to chase her down would have been nice.

- She just gets shot and dies. No defiant last quip. No empty threat about angering Statesman, or hollow expression of faith that he would save her at the last minute. No special sad music. This is not how a former hero should go out. Not even in a villain-centric story.
I actually disagree with these points specifically. She WAS once a heroine. Not anymore. We don't have any idea how long she's been out of the hero-ing business, but long enough that she's gone back to being an otherwise ordinary civilian. There's reason enough there for her to be nervous in these situations.

As for her just getting shot and killed...well, I suppose this reflects the seriousness of this arc. This isn't a comic book arc where people will make these last words or the villains will even entertain them. In fact, if you want to think about it, this drives home the fact that someone is going to die.

Of course, I would've preferred if the Heroes had a CHANCE to save her and she gets shot and killed. The fact that (for blue-side anyway) she dies off-camera with no explanation whatsoever (the explaination is again, red-side only) just makes me feel angry, because again, blue-side is two or more steps behind no matter WHAT they do. I know I'm starting to sound like a broken record, but it's hard not to stress this. It's fine to have the Heroes lose, but this makes us (blue-siders) look sloppy. It would've been a LOT better if we'd shown up and she got shot in a cutscene. Or we beat on Jean to free her, and THEN she gets shot. But for her to die seemingly hours or more before a Hero arrives?

It really makes me feel like "What's the point of even attempting these arcs? I don't feel Heroic at all? I'm not actually DOING anything that seems either helpful or useful, I'm just dancing to the tune of the invisible enemy orchestrating this whole thing." It's one thing to make this a struggle the Heroes will lose, it's another thing entirely to make the heroes feel utterly and completely pointless.

If the arc is supposed to be a desperate struggle or a string of seemingly random events that will eventually tie together, then it's not coming together FAST enough. We're almost over halfway and I think both sides STILL have no idea what's going on.


 

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Originally Posted by Issen View Post
It really makes me feel like "What's the point of even attempting these arcs? I don't feel Heroic at all? I'm not actually DOING anything that seems either helpful or useful, I'm just dancing to the tune of the invisible enemy orchestrating this whole thing." It's one thing to make this a struggle the Heroes will lose, it's another thing entirely to make the heroes feel utterly and completely pointless.
To be fair, it's easy to get caught up in the "big failure" of the arc, and not consider that in three missions you've also managed to stop a nuclear war and bring in a dangerous villain who's deftly evaded any form of capture for more than 15 issues now. That's not bad. No, it doesn't change the fact that the big accomplishments are secondary to the main goal, which is indeed a failure, but heroes still have some major accomplishments.

I think part of the problem is simply the way these arcs are being released, for what it's worth. Even with the assured death of a major character in the end, I'm pretty confident we're going to see justice done, and the badguys thoroughly thwarted. It's just that (warning: TVTropes link approaching!) You Can't Thwart Stage One. This happens in other arcs as well, but we're able to immediately go on to the next part of the story. Here, we won't be getting the payoff until March.


 

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Originally Posted by Kitsune9tails View Post
- She spent the whole time being kidnapped and cowering. As she was a former superheroine in her own right, I would have expected to fight her (even if she were horribly underleveled to reflect her loss of the Liberty Belt) and defeat her to deliver her to Malaise and Wade. As an alternative, a scripted event where she escapes by some clever ruse and I have to chase her down would have been nice.

- She just gets shot and dies. No defiant last quip. No empty threat about angering Statesman, or hollow expression of faith that he would save her at the last minute. No special sad music. This is not how a former hero should go out. Not even in a villain-centric story.
These are problems I've had, as well. I get that Alexis was supposed to be a "victim" in this case. That's fine. But did she have to ACT like a victim, too? Her being given a civilian model and made to cower and never show any sign of competence of any kind is just... Sad. Well, OK, she does have that one awkward grammar "You don't know the enemies you made this day!" or some such, but that's it. She doesn't come off like a former heroine. She comes off like... Like I'm kidnapping Miss Francine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsune9tails View Post
Statesman: Where does our Marcus Cole live/eat/shop? Is he anachronistic and preferring a 'simpler age', or is he thoroughly modernized, with a Twitter account and blog? Does he show any signs of Emperor Cole's power lust, or is he baffled as to the evils of his alternate selves? What about his old con-man/heist-meister days...does he have nostalgia or is he ashamed of them? What does the word "Statesman" mean to him; does he feel he represents the USA these days, the hero community, or something else? As the premier hero of the world, does he have disdain for unproven young heroes, or a distant but fatherly regard for them? If he dies, what will we lose?

Sister Psyche: How crazy is she; does she isolate herself to escape the voices in her head, meditate/medicate, or just endure? Why "Sister" Psyche; is she Catholic? (Yes, go there) How is she adapting to married life; is she a domestic type or does she have some kind of hobbies or career outside of herodom? How does she feel about Aurora Borealis and Calvin Scott, particularly in the current circumstance with Praetoria? Is she a feminist? Why does she use her powers for heroic ends, especially contrasted with her Praetorian counterpart? If she dies, what will we lose?


Manticore: Manticore we know some things about, like his lifestyle, his contentious relationship with Statesman, his marriage, his public identity, and his underhanded dealings with the government. He is clearly both the shadiest and most proactive Phalanxer; possibly a Vigilante. However, here is an opportunity to explore his Heroic side, or to explore the fact that he is a pure Vigilante only a final Tip away from Villainhood.

Citadel: The least known Phalanxer. There is tons to reveal here, from the extent of his programming and the nature of his sentience, to his relationship with other digital intelligences. How does he feel about the Internet? What does he beleive about the nature of the soul? How does he feel about media portrayals of beings like himself? Does he dream of electric sheep? How was he accepted as a Phalanxer? Does he have hobbies, preferences, aspirations? If he dies, what do we lose?
I very much agree with this. In fact, that's been a running problem with this game since day one. As the Surviving Eight are all either trainers or TF contacts, many people never really had much to do with them, so we know next to nothing about who they are, what they aspire to or what they do on their off time. Of course, there are the Top Cow comics, but... Ugh. In essence, these are all blank slates. In fact, when Positron shows up in that one mission for Ambassador Khur'Rekt and says "Synapse will never let me live this down!" as he is defeated, I'm left thinking "Huh? Is that the kind of relationship these two had? I didn't know that."

I'm supposed to care about these people, but I'm supposed to care because the narrative tells me I'm supposed to, and because their faces show up on the loading screens and up in the forum background pic. However, they've received no development to speak of, and so when they start dying, it feels cheap and pointless. It's as if the studio is desperately trying to get a rise out of us, so they're killing people to sock us. But like John McLane letting Hans shoot Ellis, we're put in a position to watch a character we don't know or care about get killed. It's not emotional enough to be "deep," but it's still a good person getting killed, so it's just emotional enough to be annoying.

Far as I'm concerned, "Who will die?" is a waste of canon characters. Killing them off for a publicity stunt just makes me feel unclean.


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

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If I was reading a novel, I would not call foul on being surprised by a reveal because it's a literary medium that took advantage of the fact that for instance I could not actually hear a scene.
I would. Withholding important information is a tactic employed by hacks.


Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"

 

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Originally Posted by Issen View Post
I actually disagree with these points specifically. She WAS once a heroine. Not anymore. We don't have any idea how long she's been out of the hero-ing business, but long enough that she's gone back to being an otherwise ordinary civilian. There's reason enough there for her to be nervous in these situations.

As for her just getting shot and killed...well, I suppose this reflects the seriousness of this arc. This isn't a comic book arc where people will make these last words or the villains will even entertain them. In fact, if you want to think about it, this drives home the fact that someone is going to die.
I don't feel that her actions were unrealistic, just uninvolving. When Wash gets killed in Serenity, it is sudden but you can care because you have had a chance to see why his loss is a loss. You just lost the ace pilot, the amazon's dear husband, the gentle joker. With Miss Liberty, the only thing you know about her is that she is vaguely ...imperious, or something.

I haven't gotten a shot at playing it blueside yet; we'll see how that changes my perspective. But my instinct is that it is better to have no chance of saving her, than a 'fake chance' ...but then that was the whole point of Malaise's ruse.


Story Arcs I created:

Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!

Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!

Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Issen View Post
I actually disagree with these points specifically. She WAS once a heroine. Not anymore. We don't have any idea how long she's been out of the hero-ing business, but long enough that she's gone back to being an otherwise ordinary civilian. There's reason enough there for her to be nervous in these situations.
She was a heroine, that attitude and bravery doesn't just drop off your personality the moment you put the cape in the closet and retire. We have several instances in the lore where retired heroes make one last brave stand despite age and slipping powers. Sure she should be nervous, but not cowed.

Reminds me of a Batman/Superman comic where Supes is sick and weak. They are getting ready to descend into the big-bad's lair when Batman tells Clark that he can probably handle it without him. Superman asks "Should I only be brave when I'm completely invulnerable?" or something similar. Batman just nods and the two go down into the lair.


 

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Originally Posted by Issen View Post
I'll finish them only because I want to see it through to the end. But the writing NEEDS to change. Villainous plots CAN succeed without demanding Heroes lose almost all higher brain functions and common sense, devs.

Also, anyone who did it Redside. Do we know WHY they wanted Alexis dead? Was there any reason given?
I'm starting to wonder if anyone reads all the text in this game.

1) Wade needs her blood because it's similar to Statesman's.

I assume he just needs the blood of an Incarnate or something similar, and Liberty and Statesman were too hard for Wade to trap, since States is Big Time and Liberty is currently empowered by the Liberty Belt...or, perhaps it would be believable that Blitz could capture Alexis. Wade may have other methods of capturing Liberty or Statesman, though the latter may not be as feasible since States is Big Time.

I'm pretty sure he's going to combine Alexis' blood with the Power Intensifier he stole from the Midnight Squad; or rather, Wade's next pawn is going to get a transfusion of her blood and they're going to use the Intensifier...you know, right before they explode or something as dictated by the dropping of other shoes and such.

2) Wade has been watching a lot of Criminal Minds recently and believes that the death of a close relative will make Statesman emo out again like when his wife Monica died. To be accurate, though, States only did that because Recluse purposely sent flowers to Monica to mess with his head a bit, I can't remember how exactly that worked.

It's entirely possible that States won't fall for the same trick twice, even through his grief.

3) Wade wants to estrange Manticore from the rest of the Phalanx because of his secrecy involving, and the magnitude of his failure to protect as a result of said secrecy, someone so close to the Phalanx. I think people have already picked up on this, though.

Points 2 and Points 3 are really to create a sufficiently distracted and divided Phalanx to enable Point 1.


61866 - A Series of Unfortunate Kidnappings - More than a coincidence?
2260 - The Burning of Hearts - A green-eyed monster holds the match.
379248 - The Spider Without Fangs - NEW - Some lessons learned (more or less.)

 

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As a former villain, as someone who hated Longbow passionately even before the Second Rikti War, I somehow expected the chance to kill, or stand by and watch somebody else kill, the CEO of Longbow to be more satisfying. Maybe it's because I knew that a Rulu-shin cultist was planning on benefiting from it; more likely it's because I was hoping that her death would have something to do with the fact that she runs an above-the-law mercenary company that uses flamethrowers to make arrests.

I realize that we've probably never seen Malaise without his mask, at least not that I can remember, but the realization that "Penn Jilette" from the earlier cut-scenes was Malaise seemed kind of abrupt.

As someone who used to spend a lot of time playing with Mission Architect, I want that Arachnos office map tileset expanded to include a full set of office maps, please! (Although it's a little too dark to be plausible, if you ask me, but I'm not the art director. Given my druthers, I'd want a whole tileset that looks like the Arachnos office in Recluse's Victory.)

I know you have the tech to branch dialog based off of souvenirs and badges. Manticore should have remembered that he and I had fought several times before, even if only from my souvenirs for completing Westin Phipps' arcs before going vigilante. And Darrin Wade should have made some kind of remark about my having worked for him before, off of my Thief of Midnight badge.


 

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Didn't whats her face die like a long long time ago?


 

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Originally Posted by Lazarillo View Post
Given that with his background, Malaise's identity should be well-known to pretty much everyone, it's fairly cheap, to my mind. If they used someone whose name and face weren't public knowledge (which, admittedly is...pretty much no one major that I can recall), that would be one thing, but this is entirely another.
But we only saw 'Jean' in cut-scenes that our characters never witnessed. Since our characters never saw him they had no reason to tell us who he was. They could have had a black screen with captions on it instead of the cutscenes if they wanted to, or even no cutscenes at all. I would have prefered cutscenes which actually had something to do with my character, but it is what it is.

Our characters might have recognized him during the negotiation fight, or might not since he was out of costume. Manticore certainly did but he wasn't sure which side he was on until it was too late.


Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522