Getting tired of Incarnates
To be quite honest, Incarnate powers are a big reason I stopped playing so much. that and the rate which new stuff is churned out. Way too fast for a casual player like me.
why do I say way to fast, well, it seems that if I don't "Keep Up with the Joneses" (get all the new stuff) I stand around high level missions or TFs and do nothing. I sit there bored, and wondering why I even bother. On the other side, it has made me focus on playing some lower level Characters a bit more, but even then they eventually will get into the boring zone. The idea of actually building a character is gone also, because the Incarnate stuff makes ATs obsolete. Strategy? Fuggetabouit. Actually feeling like a hero defeating impossible odds? No longer. City of Heroes appealed to me because it was a different game, one not about the grind. Now that feeling is gone. Rush to 50 and rush to get your incarnate stuff. |
And this is one of the reasons I don't bother with the Incarnate stuff. As far as I'm concerned it doesn't exist.
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Blecch.
I like taking one of my super-powered heroes and banding together with like folks and seeing, within the mix of the powers that we have, how to approach the various problems that missions provide. This is called "fun." Having to plan the D-Day invasion with each person having a script as thick as a Hollywood epic to get the several different currencies needed for Uber Stuff in a storyline that is simply stupid is NOT fun.
I am with you. It does not exist. *tosses the squirrel a quid for a pint*
"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
The idea of actually building a character is gone also, because the Incarnate stuff makes ATs obsolete. Strategy? Fuggetabouit. Actually feeling like a hero defeating impossible odds? No longer.
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It's simply a ludicrous claim that ATs are obsolete at this point. Yes, Incarnate powers are very powerful. You won't hear me claim that they don't change the game. As someone with 10 characters who mostly have all five currently available Incarnate slots equipped at tier 4 (Very Rare), I still don't understand this notion that this makes ATs no longer matter.
Do Incarnate powers blur the lines? Yes, there's no question. But losing the benefit of AT distinctions completely can only seem to happen if you are playing at difficulty where the need for support is so limited that this blurring can erase it. The blurring is not infinite, and I promise you, it is within the available difficulty settings of the game to make those ATs valuable - to move the need for support outside that blurring zone.
What I will agree is that you don't need to be cautious and have support and have Incarnates. I've never wanted CoH to be some sort of game of chess. So I haven't played this game cautiously for a very long time, and all Incarnates let me do was crank up the difficulty I can manage for the same degree of heedlessness. But I still appreciate how much a buffer/debuffer, or in the right situations even a good Tanker can let me be more reckless. I say this as someone who min/maxes pretty significantly. If I can see the value in the ATs and what they bring, I think that means anyone should be able to. If they can't, they just aren't looking for it.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I feel quite the opposite. I also don't agree that Celidya is assuming either. If you play on +0 things will die very quickly to one judgement but as you raise the difficulty enemies will start living through it. If you have multiple people using judgement then it won't matter if it's +0 or +4 but they do have a decent cooldown period, granted it's slightly faster if they went spiritual, and thus can't be spammed constantly. I really enjoy that judgement can speed up mish/tf times but not everyone has them.
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![](http://i.imgur.com/90o12.jpg?1)
Yep. Nothing can make any of the Incarnate powers recharge faster, not even other Incarnate powers.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
![](http://avatars.cohtitan.com/signatures/cgt/u11275.png)
Help Dirk Knightly the freelance detective solve a case in Arc ID:368097
Thre's not much about Incarnates I actually like. The trouble is, it's the bulk of the content that's being run so if you want to do something other than DFB or solo it's that or yetanother*yawn*ITF
Edit to add I'm with Dante on the fact it effectively junks the existing good content.
![](http://repeat-offenders.net/savecoh/SaveCOH_Blue_leaderboard.jpg)
Thelonious Monk
Yeah, I am. Not the trials, though those have gotten dull. Not the "Trial vs Solo" content or the rather boring Tyrant and the Well storyline.
What I mean is the seeming lack of being able to play once I hit the high 40s unless I solo. Yes, I can team, and try to. I may even be able to use a power once in a while. But most of the time it feels like "OK, judgement. Now you use judgement. Now judgement #3. Oh, another judgement. Hey, the first one's recharged. Yo, judgement. OK, judgement. LOLJudgement." No "Hey, this can be tricky if you get that other group up top" - nope, just Judgement, Judgement, Judgement. Meanwhile I'm trying to self-buff, or use them to buff the team, or, oh, I don't know, USE one of my powers before everything's dead. It's rare for me to have a non-Incarnate team (or a team with just one, say.) And it's not just judgement. Why bring a buffer along when someone can just fire off one of their Destiny powers? And yeah, I can (and used to) ask for people not to - which led on rare occasion to someone not, but usually someone dropping team or making snide remarks. Well, y'know, I'm sorry but I actually do want to use *my* character's powers on my own arcs, not sit back and watch as other people nuke spawns one after the other. If that's all I wanted, I'd find a PL farm and sit at the door. Or, for another example, I do want to actually feel like I'm actually contributing more than another body on an ITF. We know the devs can disable stuff in non-Incarnate arcs. Why weren't these brought down to a somewhat lower-but-still-powerful level outside of Incarnate trials/arcs? We'd still be "more powerful," but to a more reasonable level in non-Incarnate content. Really, these are just making the high-end game less fun for me. I've started parking characters in the 40s, or just soloing and ignoreing strike/task forces. And that's frustrating. I kind of hope, with people going premium, that the situation gets better, but right now it's just really, really annoying. /venting off. |
This. Set it to maximum deifficulty and the team will slow down or die. Incarnates are meant to be powerful.
Paragonian Knights
Justice Company
Just stop playing in +0/x1, problem solved. With +4/x8 the judgement powers aren't enough to one shot everything and most "normal" factions will put up some decent challenge for the average team.
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I have always supported the idea of an "Incarnate Mode" for high level TF's and Ouro arcs that gives threads and maybe a common component or Astral merit at the end. But with or without that feature, it's still fun sometimes to just crank the difficulty and see what you can really do.
@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
This is what I love about it. Steamrolling through mobs is a blast and I love it.
This. Set it to maximum deifficulty and the team will slow down or die. Incarnates are meant to be powerful. |
If I am a Level 50 without any incarnate stuff on a team that has Maxed the Difficulty so that they can't one shot everything, I tend to be just as useless as if they were steamrolling through everything. Can't hit much, don't do much damage, don't debuff enough, etc...
What I am seeing is a gravitation toward the power gamer instead of the casual gamer.
Just remember, "When Everyone is Super, No one is."
Defcon 0 - (D4 lvl 50),DJ Shecky Cape Radio
@Shecky
Twitter: @DJ_Shecky, @siliconshecky, @thecaperadio
When you air your dirty laundry out on a clothesline above the street, everyone is allowed to snicker at the skid marks in your underoos. - Lemur_Lad
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I don't really see this problem much, but then I'm generally assiduous about not teaming with Incarnates and/or 50s, for exactly the reasons the OP gives.
I did a Citadel the other night with one 50 and seven others of us who were appropriate level for the TF, and the difference was blatant. He was constantly scooting ahead to take on new spawns while the rest of us were still working on cleaning up the last one, and it got very tiresome very quickly.
34 heroes,
20 villains, Victory, Justice, Infinity, Virtue, Triumph, Exalted -- some more active than others
I did a Citadel the other night with one 50 and seven others of us who were appropriate level for the TF, and the difference was blatant. He was constantly scooting ahead to take on new spawns while the rest of us were still working on cleaning up the last one, and it got very tiresome very quickly.
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![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
The Citadel TF is 25-30, so the 50 would have had access to powers and slots up to 35. - their 36-50 powers and slots would have been turned off, along with all their Incarnate powers.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I've only done a little bit of Incarnate content on one toon. Why? Because I wanted the emotes that had been locked behind it. Now I've got them I don't bother. I'd love to try and get some of the armour, or the auras one day, but for now I'm happy to bimble around on my non-Incarnate characters because I find them more fun to play than my Incarnated toon.
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To be quite honest, Incarnate powers are a big reason I stopped playing so much. that and the rate which new stuff is churned out. Way too fast for a casual player like me.
why do I say way to fast, well, it seems that if I don't "Keep Up with the Joneses" (get all the new stuff) I stand around high level missions or TFs and do nothing. I sit there bored, and wondering why I even bother. On the other side, it has made me focus on playing some lower level Characters a bit more, but even then they eventually will get into the boring zone. The idea of actually building a character is gone also, because the Incarnate stuff makes ATs obsolete. Strategy? Fuggetabouit. Actually feeling like a hero defeating impossible odds? No longer. City of Heroes appealed to me because it was a different game, one not about the grind. Now that feeling is gone. Rush to 50 and rush to get your incarnate stuff. |
This is the reason why me and the wife will be going the premium route. This whole incarnate debacle has really turned me off to the game, I do not want to grind, I do not want judgement, I do not want pets, or w/e else it is you get.
I do not have time to grind,grind,grind to get how many ever shards/merits/points to get powers that I do not want in the first place. Casual players do not have a place in this game with this kind of content.
The focus seems to be get to 50 on a toon and grind the **** out of the tf's...BORING....if I wanted a farmer I would make a ss/fire broot.
I do realize some people might like this but really the "end game" the devs have came up with is just a joke. There is little imagination to farming the same tf's over and over to get lackluster abilities.
While others might like to be spoon fed this drivel I do not, I am so very disappointed in the direction this game has taken.
Despite it's flaws, I do like the Incarnate system as it gave me a reason to dust-off my 50's and actually play them again. On the flip side, I do understand what the OP is getting at.
Like what other people have suggested, I think the best way of fixing this would be to introduce a few new options for existing high-level TF's. This is what's floating in my head:
- No Incarnate Abilities Allowed: Exactly as stated, all Incarnate Abilities are disallowed.
- Alpha Slot Allowed: Players can still benefit from their Alpha slot, but no others.
- Furious Mode: The Well of the Furies has tampered with the trial and greatly increased the difficulty of all enemies in the trial. Shards still drop in the trial, but the reward tables at the end will allow the choice to "roll" on the Justice/Destiny/Lore/Interface Component table instead of the regular rewards.
Another thought: I think a new "Supremacy" badge should be introduced for being able "Master" a trial without incarnate abilities (i.e. what "Master of" badges signified originally).
I like the Alpha Slot.
I liked the other slots when incarnate powers beyond Alpha were rumored to only work in incarnate content.
Since they do work in non-incarnate content, I still like the Alpha slot, the rest however can go die in an orgy of Judgement spam (Ion being the judgement of choice so no fire was available).
Like the "Earth for Humans" billboards we need "Content for Non-incarnates";
To the OP: Yes.
I have found solace in creating a themed SG (going public very soon) that is focused on the 1-50 game. Sure, Incarnates will be allowed, but the theme of the SG does not exactly encourage them, so I am betting most members will pick up maybe one Incarnate power on any one toon, which would specifically relate to that toon's abilities. However, thanks to the annoyingly rigid lore of the Incarnate System (another issue entirely) I don't know how true that is...
My advice is to find a group of players that share your mindset (like me or some other people in this thread) and play with them. No need to play less than you would like, just need to find the right players.
@Winter. Because I'm Winter. Period.
![Big Grin](images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
I am a blaster first, and an alt-oholic second.
![](http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i382/Winterminal/Talsorian-BannerGrey.png)
It is as I warned - Incarnates are quickly outpacing the difficulty that the base game (which is not designed with Incarnate powers in mind) can provide. It was a nice pacifier to send people to replay old content for a while, but the development team walked right into the very problem they cited as a reason to not up the level cap back in the day: People can play through new content faster than the team can make it. Sooner or later, Incarnates will be too strong for legacy content. What are they going to do then?
The answer, it seems, is "a handful of new Trials over and over again" when the answer should have been "a new expansion's worth of non-repeating content." But, of course, Incarnates weren't designed as a new level range. They were designed to be raid grind, and as such their content is practically nil, but for the same repetitive handful of tasks. The spin was that they could just play old content, but that's just too easy at this point, and it's only going to get easier.
Incarnates should have been given their own body of content so they don't feel compelled to go back and re-run old missions, now much easier than before. At least, no more compelled than level 50 characters going back to street-hunt in Brickstown.
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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![Wink](images/smilies/wink.gif)
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
The answer, it seems, is "a handful of new Trials over and over again" when the answer should have been "a new expansion's worth of non-repeating content." But, of course, Incarnates weren't designed as a new level range. They were designed to be raid grind, and as such their content is practically nil, but for the same repetitive handful of tasks. The spin was that they could just play old content, but that's just too easy at this point, and it's only going to get easier.
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I seem to recall Posi or someone similar admitting that the way they released four slots at a time with only the two raids for content was a mistake. I'm just hoping that they learn for it with the remaining tiers.
I want to say I've read somewhere that we may see a shard<>thread conversion soon (anybody able to confirm that?) so no need to drop threads outside of the iTrials.
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10 shards -> 10 threads for 1 mil every 20 hours and
10 shards -> 5 threads for free with no limit
![](http://i.imgur.com/90o12.jpg?1)
To be quite honest, Incarnate powers are a big reason I stopped playing so much. that and the rate which new stuff is churned out. Way too fast for a casual player like me.
why do I say way to fast, well, it seems that if I don't "Keep Up with the Joneses" (get all the new stuff) I stand around high level missions or TFs and do nothing. I sit there bored, and wondering why I even bother.
On the other side, it has made me focus on playing some lower level Characters a bit more, but even then they eventually will get into the boring zone.
The idea of actually building a character is gone also, because the Incarnate stuff makes ATs obsolete. Strategy? Fuggetabouit. Actually feeling like a hero defeating impossible odds? No longer.
City of Heroes appealed to me because it was a different game, one not about the grind. Now that feeling is gone. Rush to 50 and rush to get your incarnate stuff.
Defcon 0 - (D4 lvl 50),DJ Shecky Cape Radio
@Shecky
Twitter: @DJ_Shecky, @siliconshecky, @thecaperadio
When you air your dirty laundry out on a clothesline above the street, everyone is allowed to snicker at the skid marks in your underoos. - Lemur_Lad