Getting tired of Incarnates
By
Aura_Familia,
Posted on: 2011-11-06 15:41 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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By and large, no Incarnate abilities are going to let a team hit much better. (It's rare to see people take Nerve outside the occasional defense-based or control-based character.) Solo with no outside buffs, my 50s were at the toHit cap against unbuffed +3s long before I19 came along. So if the folks you're running with are hitting +3 or +4 foes, it's probably got nothing to do with Incarnate powers.|
Originally Posted by DJ_Shecky
If I am a Level 50 without any incarnate stuff on a team that has Maxed the Difficulty so that they can't one shot everything, I tend to be just as useless as if they were steamrolling through everything. Can't hit much, don't do much damage, don't debuff enough, etc...
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By and large, no Incarnate abilities make you debuff foes better. There's one branch of Clarion with +special, but it only strengthens buffs and not debuffs. So I'm not sure why you think you can't debuff as much as anyone else, since their Incarnate powers aren't boosting their debuffs.
When you end up on a team with Incarnates on it, how many of them are there? Are you finding you can't find a team that's not composed mostly of Incarnates? One Judgement will not level a +3 or +4 spawn. Two will level most of the minions. Are you finding yourself on a team of four or more Incarnates? I can't say that's not happening, but it surprises me, because I don't run into that full time even playing with people who have been otherwise working hard on Incarnate progress. They still level up new characters. I went on an ITF with them the other day where I was the only Incarnate, and only of only two level 50s.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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The level shift, in and of itself, is a really big deal that a lot of people underrate. If you're fighting 54s, there's actually a pretty big difference between an effective-level 50 and an effective-level 51.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
By and large, no Incarnate abilities make you debuff foes better. There's one branch of Clarion with +special, but it only strengthens buffs and not debuffs. So I'm not sure why you think you can't debuff as much as anyone else, since their Incarnate powers aren't boosting their debuffs.
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I believe the TF menu needs to have on the difficulty selection - NO INCARNATE POWERS - option.
Let people know in the beginning if you are using Incarnate powers the merit reward is less because you are far less at risk. However if you select the don't use Incarnate powers option - you get the full reward.
Simple.
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It is a problem for two reasons:|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
This is hardly a new problem, just a spin on an old one. Contrary to popular opinion, level 45+ is no more the whole game than level 50 was before Incarnates came along. What the introduction of Incarnates did was shift a debate between two sets of people: those who liked playing the pre-50 game and retiring 50s and those who like to play only at 50. That debate has new life in the form of a debate between people who like to play at 50 and people who like to play at 50 with Incarnate powers. As you say, it has a lot of parallels to raising the level cap. However, unless it provided no mechanical advantages at all to play "past 50", this conflict would exist. It might not exist in this degree, but so long as Incarnate powers were non-trivial, this same debate would have come up.
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1. Originally when you hit level 50, you were intended to do level 50 stuff or retire. You weren't really supposed to have endless gameplay.
2. You COULDN'T go back and run level 40-45 missions without being exemplared and scaling down to match your foes. You weren't encouraged to play content that is technically below your level.
Right now, the game is supposed to not really have an end, as it slows down into infinity the closer you get to it, and that's by design. The game now has even less content for Icarnates than level 50s originally had at their level ranged (technically, everything in the 45-50 range) and they are encouraged to play content they "outlevel" as part of their normal progression.
I assure you, if Incarnates had enough actual content to keep them going for weeks (as opposed to hours) without running out at least with moderate gaming, then most wouldn't be caught dead rerunning old content, or at least not as frequently. The reason you see so many Incarnates linger in non-Incarnate content is because they're being squeezed out of their "Incarnate-dom" by the constricting of insufficient content. I mean, it's either old content or the same old threadmill of Trial after Trial. Yes, we have four now. Soon we'll have six. We could have 12 or 20 for all that matters - they don't last. And when you're tired of Trials, what else is there to do but to go back and outclass non-Incarnates at their own game?
The solution here isn't difficulty adjustment. It's more content. LOTS more of it. It's content that's applicable to raid groups, to small teams and to solo players. It's enough content to keep Incarnates doing Incarnate stuff and not going back to the old game unless they felt nostalgic.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I don't know what game some of you were playing, but long before incarnate system was introduced people have been steamrolling through all the content. This is nothing new it is just easier to obtain with the casual player. In the past you had to be hard core about IOs and making your toon the best it could be.
Paragonian Knights
Justice Company
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Here's a significant area of disconnect between folks. Even level 50 stuff hasn't been a challenge for folks who partook heavily of the IO system for a very long time. I think it unlikely that everyone who built an IO'd-out character still was running at max difficulty, but most everyone was at least turning it up a few notches. Now, with Incarnate powers, people with zero IOs at all can turn difficulty up a few notches. People with IOs and Incarnate stuff can turn difficultly up nearly all the way. (A few characters could already turn it up all the way with just one or the other, but certainly not everyone.)|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
2. You COULDN'T go back and run level 40-45 missions without being exemplared and scaling down to match your foes. You weren't encouraged to play content that is technically below your level.
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For those who didn't want to play at those power levels, heavily IO'd characters may have been easier to avoid than Incarnates are now. There's an implication there - the IO system was either harder or less enjoyable for more people to get into than the Incarnate system. For the people who appreciated and/or enjoyed the kind of play IO'd characters provided, that's a great improvement - Incarnates are apparently more accessible. For other folks, perhaps not so much.
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| The solution here isn't difficulty adjustment. It's more content. LOTS more of it. It's content that's applicable to raid groups, to small teams and to solo players. It's enough content to keep Incarnates doing Incarnate stuff and not going back to the old game unless they felt nostalgic. |
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Honestly.. I do not get the Incarnate hate. You are complaining that because I choose to use a power that you do not wish to use I'm detracting from your gameplay?? Please!! Even on a 8 man ITF I only see a handful of judgements firing off every now and then. The only place I see chained Judgements is IN a Trial. I see more Lore pets than Judgements, and they aren't a big deal, they don't detract from my job as whatever AT I am on.
Does a Destiny make a Empathy or Pain Dom useless? HELL no. No Destiny can buff a character like those sets, no Barrier can replace Thermal or Sonic shields, no Judgement can keep up a sustained attack chain of a Fire Blaster or a Brute at 3/4s Fury.
Blaming Incarnates because you are getting less enjoyment from the game seems a bit... petty. IS the Incarnate path right now a major grind and poorly designed? Absolutely! (The Devs didn't drop the ball.. they tripped over it, fell down a flight of stairs and broke their necks) But don't blame other players for your lack of enjoyment- it's not their fault and it's not like they are all sending tells saying "ok.. lets piss X off.. we'll all use our judgements at once hehe".
"Well, there's going to be some light music and a short note of apology saying, 'The universe ended last week, we're really sorry, we don't know what you're doing here, didn't you get the message?'"- Steve Moffat
Just a few thoughts from someone who just came back after being gone all during the time the Incarnate system was added.
For the new player, there is very little consolidated information out there on how to get started.
I managed to finally get through the Alpha unlock arc on my Scrapper, but then it was "What now?" I went to various wiki sites via google, the City of site, the forums here, etc., and found much good info, but all too often, the information was scattered too widely and became a frustrating jumble of flipping back and forth between tabs, having to click links to other pages to look up salvage, "What does THAT part mean?", and so on.
The game itself leaves you on your own, to try and make sense of things and that's off-putting for new players and those just returning.
Add in all the various Merit types out there and suddenly you're facing a literal morass of information. "What do I use this for again? Why is this important? Is this linked to the Incarnate system or not? Do I spend these Merits for this to do this or make this, or am I making a mistake?"
I was so excited to learn that I could use up all those Vanguard merits that I don't need anymore to buy something for the Incarnate system until much further digging revealed the only thing I can buy with them is useless for my Scrapper.
This system is way too complicated and confusing, IMO, and could seriously stand for some streamlining to make it more user friendly. Especially given that there is no one resource out there that truly breaks down the system into a 'new player' friendly format from Step 1 onward.
I'm certainly not opposed to having to dig around for the info on outside resource sites. I do that all the time. But when I can't even get the most basic of 'how to get started' all gathered in one spot, then we have a problem. The more time I have to spend making charts, spreadsheets and lists, the less appealing the game becomes. I don't think I'm alone in this.
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I mentioned this at the beginning of the Incarnates past the Alpha that you can't create a brand new game called the Incarnates by giving them 2 trials.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
It is a problem for two reasons:
1. Originally when you hit level 50, you were intended to do level 50 stuff or retire. You weren't really supposed to have endless gameplay. 2. You COULDN'T go back and run level 40-45 missions without being exemplared and scaling down to match your foes. You weren't encouraged to play content that is technically below your level. Right now, the game is supposed to not really have an end, as it slows down into infinity the closer you get to it, and that's by design. The game now has even less content for Icarnates than level 50s originally had at their level ranged (technically, everything in the 45-50 range) and they are encouraged to play content they "outlevel" as part of their normal progression. I assure you, if Incarnates had enough actual content to keep them going for weeks (as opposed to hours) without running out at least with moderate gaming, then most wouldn't be caught dead rerunning old content, or at least not as frequently. The reason you see so many Incarnates linger in non-Incarnate content is because they're being squeezed out of their "Incarnate-dom" by the constricting of insufficient content. I mean, it's either old content or the same old threadmill of Trial after Trial. Yes, we have four now. Soon we'll have six. We could have 12 or 20 for all that matters - they don't last. And when you're tired of Trials, what else is there to do but to go back and outclass non-Incarnates at their own game? The solution here isn't difficulty adjustment. It's more content. LOTS more of it. It's content that's applicable to raid groups, to small teams and to solo players. It's enough content to keep Incarnates doing Incarnate stuff and not going back to the old game unless they felt nostalgic. |
The Alpha slot was perfectly designed - you do an arc, get a power unlocked and then you can fill it by doing ALL content. By doing the weekly TF that was designated you could get it FASTER.
This is how each trial needs to be designed. Each trial needs to be tied to ONE aspect of Incarnate power. You run it once to unlock it - run it more often to gain the exact piece you need to slot the power and run ALL other content to more slowly fill it.
This is an absolute no brainer and I can't see why it is being made so complicated. You could tie more than one trial to an aspect to give extra content. My example:
You run xxx trial to unlock Lore - if you run more of this trial you automatically get the exact salvage needed to progress one slot. It is a sure thing and no gamble.
You run other content or trials and you take a gamble at getting what you want. So you can either run the designated trial as the easy way or you run normal content for Threads - or other Trials and gamble.
Simple.
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Form your own team of regular lvl 50s. Problem solved. You can say ahead of time this is a no-Incarnate ability team.|
Originally Posted by DJ_Shecky
And I can understand that, but the problems arise for those who don't want that power or want to feel useful without it.
If I am a Level 50 without any incarnate stuff on a team that has Maxed the Difficulty so that they can't one shot everything, I tend to be just as useless as if they were steamrolling through everything. Can't hit much, don't do much damage, don't debuff enough, etc... What I am seeing is a gravitation toward the power gamer instead of the casual gamer. Just remember, "When Everyone is Super, No one is." |
Whether you find anyone willing to do that is another issue.
People need to realize that folks WANT to make their 50s more powerful. For some folks that was ALSO the entire point of IO'ing out.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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Now that I think about it (and I'm sure it's been brought up), why *did* the contacts stop at 45-50 anyway? Much of the time on my 50s, it took that range of contacts to get me there. Why never a new set of contacts that unlocks at 50, even outside of Incarnate content?
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Right now, the game is supposed to not really have an end, as it slows down into infinity the closer you get to it, and that's by design. The game now has even less content for Icarnates than level 50s originally had at their level ranged (technically, everything in the 45-50 range) and they are encouraged to play content they "outlevel" as part of their normal progression.
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Suggestions:
Super Packs Done Right
Influence Sink: IO Level Mod/Recrafting
Random Merit Rolls: Scale cost by Toon Level
To consoldidate all my ideas on Incarnates:
1. set all TF's using Incarnate powers to give a smaller reward - it is less risk.
2. Allow a setting in TF's and Trial for No Incarnate powers - just like the no temp powers setting and this gives the full reward.
3. Have each Incarnate Trial unlock one aspect only and then run this same trial to get a slot filled automatically for that aspect of whatever reward you need in order.
4. Have other Trials give a reward roll for aspects not of that type to get a chance to fill for another aspect.
5. Have normal level 50 content give threads just like it currently gives shards and remove shards from the game. Credit all held shards as threads one for one.
Now you have a fast route to fill each type running that Trial and a slower route - even solo running normal content or other level 50 Trials.
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It would be nice to have contacts that unlock at 50, contacts that unlock when you unlock the Alpha slot, and maybe even more contacts that unlock when you unlock other Incarnate slots.|
Originally Posted by gec72
Now that I think about it (and I'm sure it's been brought up), why *did* the contacts stop at 45-50 anyway? Much of the time on my 50s, it took that range of contacts to get me there. Why never a new set of contacts that unlocks at 50, even outside of Incarnate content?
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In fact, I think it would be cool if every TF contact could be unlocked to also be a normal mission contact at level 50. And these would have to be some really epic, world-saving story arcs. Real wrath of god type stuff!
What I fail to understand is the lack of acknowledgment of a fundamental issue with the game's difficulty in general. Back when even I started playing in 2007, levels actually meant something. There would be no way in hell that a level 17 would have been able to play level 50 content like it can today. I think the game broke when Super Sidekicking came into play. Incarnate powers are only icing on the cake. Since then the developers have been devising ways to backpedal out of the monster of easy experience that they have created by devising new systems and mission mechanics that are simply outside the scope of the original game. They opened up a whole other can of worms when they decided to release game-breaking abilities to players.
I think the overall quality of this game has seen a steady decline. The storytelling, the new systems; the implementation of these things, for instance, misses the target. It's almost as if there's a lack of true vision or leadership when it comes to this game. Many aspects of the game seem disorganized. City Of Heroes has always seemed like an incomplete game to me. The developers have left in so many loose ends it just makes the entire game seem a bit sloppy at this point.
If you ask me, the developers have to sit back, take a deep breath, and really take a look at possibly tying up any and all loose ends in any area, whether it be discontinued story lines, zones, or the now clusterpancake of the Incarnate System and its multitude of superfluous currencies and its game breaking powers.
I used to consider myself a pretty hardcore player, but now I seldom log in and play anymore. This, mind you, from a guy who has tried to quit time and time again. Either I'm growing out of video games completely at this point (only game I've played in 7 years) or this game has become quite stale with no real reward for playing.
One last item before I go. There has to be an end to the story line of the game. Period. It's taken 7 years to tell the story of the Rikti, Rularuu, Nemesis, and Arachnos. All of the stories have to come to an end at this point in order to start afresh. Another game seemed to do it with their expansions so I see no reason why the developers don't take the opportunity to finally wrap up every fricking story line in the game. I have a feeling The Coming Storm will address some of this, but that storm should have came and went so long ago. Right now it seems so far off in the horizon. End the legacy content and end the Praetorian arc. Praetoria in particular is played out. I'm tire of Praetoria and I think many other players are on the same page with me.
If you're reading this, developers, you can start completely anew if you do so. City Of Heroes is very stale. Seven years and still no resolution to the old content. It needs to end.
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Back in the old days, before Super Sidekicking, the level 17 player would have been sidekicked to a member of the team. That member could have been a level 50 that either was or was not the mission holder. If they were sidekicked to a level 50, they would have been fighting as a combat level 49 character using their security level 17 powers. |
Originally Posted by End Sinister
What I fail to understand is the lack of acknowledgment of a fundamental issue with the game's difficulty in general. Back when even I started playing in 2007, levels actually meant something. There would be no way in hell that a level 17 would have been able to play level 50 content like it can today. I think the game broke when Super Sidekicking came into play.
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Using the Super Sidekicking system, that same level 17 player is sidekicked to team leader if no mission is set or to the mission holder. If it is a level 50 mission, they are fighting as a combat level 49 character using their security level 17 powers.
Exactly the same result. The players are sidekicked to the same combat level but still only have access to the same security level powers.
Super Sidekicking simply removed the need to have enough Mentor's of the proper level for each Sidekick. Well, it also removed the bridging method of using a slightly lower level character to act as the Mentor in order to maximize the lowbie's XP gain.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
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No they're not OP. That perma mez protection is great at first but then gets weaker in a hurry. During its weakest portion it will protect you from what one hold? If you are up against multiple mez type enemies that won't do you much good. All AT's technically have an option for mez protection, it's called breakfrees. While corruptors and defenders don't get a mez protection power from an APP controllers and dominators do. |
Originally Posted by MisterD
Destiny powers are not OP? So..getting a perma mez protection on a corr, that has NO other way to access mez protection (to more than hold/immob/conf) is not over powered? If it was 'normal' powered, why wouldn't corrs have the option for that?
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Originally Posted by MisterD
Or how about giving any toon basically infinite recovery, or a stack or regen?
In the trails, Destiny powers are not OP..most leagues need them to do well. In normal content? They are very very powerful. Maybe not quite OP, but hardly as un-gamechanging as you make out. |
Elec/Cold Troller AV/Pylon/GM/TF/SF Soloing Antics
everytime...he gets me everytime.... DAMN U BOOMIE
-- _Ilr_
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
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Originally Posted by The_Larker
This is the reason why me and the wife will be going the premium route. This whole incarnate debacle has really turned me off to the game, I do not want to grind, I do not want judgement, I do not want pets, or w/e else it is you get.
I do not have time to grind,grind,grind to get how many ever shards/merits/points to get powers that I do not want in the first place. Casual players do not have a place in this game with this kind of content. The focus seems to be get to 50 on a toon and grind the **** out of the tf's...BORING....if I wanted a farmer I would make a ss/fire broot. I do realize some people might like this but really the "end game" the devs have came up with is just a joke. There is little imagination to farming the same tf's over and over to get lackluster abilities. While others might like to be spoon fed this drivel I do not, I am so very disappointed in the direction this game has taken. |
PS You already have a ss/fire brute.....
Elec/Cold Troller AV/Pylon/GM/TF/SF Soloing Antics
everytime...he gets me everytime.... DAMN U BOOMIE
-- _Ilr_Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
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This.
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Originally Posted by Benchpresser
Honestly.. I do not get the Incarnate hate. You are complaining that because I choose to use a power that you do not wish to use I'm detracting from your gameplay?? Please!! Even on a 8 man ITF I only see a handful of judgements firing off every now and then. The only place I see chained Judgements is IN a Trial. I see more Lore pets than Judgements, and they aren't a big deal, they don't detract from my job as whatever AT I am on.
Does a Destiny make a Empathy or Pain Dom useless? HELL no. No Destiny can buff a character like those sets, no Barrier can replace Thermal or Sonic shields, no Judgement can keep up a sustained attack chain of a Fire Blaster or a Brute at 3/4s Fury. Blaming Incarnates because you are getting less enjoyment from the game seems a bit... petty. IS the Incarnate path right now a major grind and poorly designed? Absolutely! (The Devs didn't drop the ball.. they tripped over it, fell down a flight of stairs and broke their necks) But don't blame other players for your lack of enjoyment- it's not their fault and it's not like they are all sending tells saying "ok.. lets piss X off.. we'll all use our judgements at once hehe". |
Elec/Cold Troller AV/Pylon/GM/TF/SF Soloing Antics
everytime...he gets me everytime.... DAMN U BOOMIE
-- _Ilr_Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Quit post padding.
Elec/Cold Troller AV/Pylon/GM/TF/SF Soloing Antics
everytime...he gets me everytime.... DAMN U BOOMIE
-- _Ilr_Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz. I disagree. It's IOs that made end game content easier. A good scrapper can take +0/8 no probelm, an 8 man team is just overkill. Incarnates are just icing on the cake. Besides, isnt the point of being an incarnate to be...overpowered?
- Im Not Talking Fast, You're Just Listening Slow.
- To Each His Own
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Not just no, but HELL FREAKING NO to number 1. Worst suggestion ever.|
Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
To consoldidate all my ideas on Incarnates:
1. set all TF's using Incarnate powers to give a smaller reward - it is less risk. 2. Allow a setting in TF's and Trial for No Incarnate powers - just like the no temp powers setting and this gives the full reward. 3. Have each Incarnate Trial unlock one aspect only and then run this same trial to get a slot filled automatically for that aspect of whatever reward you need in order. 4. Have other Trials give a reward roll for aspects not of that type to get a chance to fill for another aspect. 5. Have normal level 50 content give threads just like it currently gives shards and remove shards from the game. Credit all held shards as threads one for one. Now you have a fast route to fill each type running that Trial and a slower route - even solo running normal content or other level 50 Trials. |
2-5 are good, but number 1 should NEVER be done.
Using the Incarnate system as advertised should not be an automatic retroactive nerf to anyone running current non-incarnate content. that would be seen as the biggest bait and switch in a loooong time.
terrible suggestion.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
So people really do see the game as I've seen it all along. I honestly only cared for the first lvl35 half since I had been playing. For one, danger was around every corner. For two, it was 'fast paced' in that you got lots of powers but nothing is optimal, slots are scarce and everyone had to make choices to get good things from their build. For three, you relied, at least somewhat, on your team when you teamed and it is *FUN*.
Since then, that's sort of extended to the lv41 range. Before that, it feels like what I find fun. After that, everyone is optimized. Everyone solos everything even when you're not solo and it basically feels like everyone is just trying to be 'The Star of the Show' or something. Since then, I've gotten a lot more lvl 50s and even the alpha slot and some incarnate slots for a couple of characters, but honestly it bores me.
The thing I think the devs did wrong with the whole End-Game is they made it way to easy to obtain. You've got players with damn near half their roster of characters with tier 4 incarnate abilities and quite a few 'casuals' who have at *least* 1-2 fully incarnated out. IOs are just a visit to the blackmarket away. It's too easy to simply farm your way into whatever you want (and however many you want) in as short amount of time as a week or two.
IMO, tricking a character out with IOs should be a relative challenge without any kind of game-plan as you level. Incarates should have been rare. Even with constant farming, an account shouldn't practically have everything on every character. The average player should have maybe *TWO* choosen characters with some of the incarnate powers mid-way enhanced. It should take time and dedication to get *ONE* character with all max tiered incarnate powers.
Not only that, but you should have to *CHOOSE* which incarnate powers you want, not be able to simply 'Catch 'em all' and swap whenever you get bored of it.
Balance and moderation are the spice of life. Getting it all nownowNOW, spamming it whenever it's up, and having your cake and eating it too (not having to make a solid choice) is why people have such a sour taste in their mouths now. Nothing wrong with the incarnate powers themselves...but then they aren't hard to get. The people that do not want to include themselves in that part of the game do so for personal and academic reasons and basically sacrifice effectiveness. Those that choose to include themselves make no sacrifice (it's not hard or time consuming...the only thing you really sacrifice is individuality) and are rewarded for exploiting the power at every turn.
It *should* be sacrificing time for effectiveness or the other way around...or having some other monumental sacrifice for this power (like lessened rewards when using such powers) so that if you're not sacrificing time/effort, the powers themselves come with their own downfalls.
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Games did that for a decade or two. They found out it made for more happier players if it wasn't like that. Substitute "level whatever" for "Incarnated out".|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
IMO, tricking a character out with IOs should be a relative challenge without any kind of game-plan as you level. Incarates should have been rare. Even with constant farming, an account shouldn't practically have everything on every character. The average player should have maybe *TWO* choosen characters with some of the incarnate powers mid-way enhanced. It should take time and dedication to get *ONE* character with all max tiered incarnate powers.
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| Not only that, but you should have to *CHOOSE* which incarnate powers you want, not be able to simply 'Catch 'em all' and swap whenever you get bored of it. |
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| Balance and moderation are the spice of life. Getting it all nownowNOW, spamming it whenever it's up, and having your cake and eating it too (not having to make a solid choice) is why people have such a sour taste in their mouths now. |
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| Nothing wrong with the incarnate powers themselves...but then they aren't hard to get. The people that do not want to include themselves in that part of the game do so for personal and academic reasons and basically sacrifice effectiveness. Those that choose to include themselves make no sacrifice (it's not hard or time consuming...the only thing you really sacrifice is individuality) and are rewarded for exploiting the power at every turn. |
The same arguments have been used in the past about 50s. Maybe you didn't like the changes there, either, but the overall direction seems pretty clear. Long-haul grinds are not the way forward.
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| It *should* be sacrificing time for effectiveness or the other way around...or having some other monumental sacrifice for this power (like lessened rewards when using such powers) so that if you're not sacrificing time/effort, the powers themselves come with their own downfalls. |
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
Different strokes for different folks; it must just be you and other people like you with similiar perspectives...|
Originally Posted by End Sinister
If you're reading this, developers, you can start completely anew if you do so. City Of Heroes is very stale. Seven years and still no resolution to the old content. It needs to end.
|
Seven years into it and I still enjoy the game and look forward to playing daily as much now as when I first started, probably even moreso actually.
"Forum PvP doesn't give drops. Just so all of you who participated in this thread are aware." -Mod08-
"when a stalker goes blue side, assassination strike should be renamed "bunny hugs", and a rainbow should fly out" -Harbinger-
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA