Sig Story Arc rewards


Agent White

 

Posted

So, recently the sig rewards were changed, so you had to have confirmed your alignment (hero.villain) before you could pick the A merit.

Fair enough.

I don't mind the change but..NOWHERE does it actually mention, in game, that this needs to be done. Are the devs simply that slack, or stupid? Or both? A change that screws the rewards, yet people are meant to be checking the forums constantly, in order to actually find out about it?

But again, that isnt my issue.

Just now, I ran the arc with a few friends, on my MM, who began as a villain, and switched to 100% hero, about..5 months ago. Since then, I had not actually done another set of tips with him (because he is poison and its junk). But he is STILL a hero. The last morality mission I did..a HERO one.

SO, we finish the arc, and the A merit option has the following message:
'You must have completed your most recent Morality Mission as a Hero reinforcing your Hero alignment to claim this reward.'

MMmm. Say WHAT? My most recent alignment? Which was a HERO! Or maybe I 'accidently' did 10 rogue tips as a Villain, came to paragon then accidently did another 10 Hero tips, plus Morality...and again, all accidently, became a Hero??

How does swapping sides NOT reinforce my alignment? The alignment is CHANGED! Clearly, I am reinforcing it.

And the very fact that there is no mention at all of this, or even having to have done any alignment, before starting the arc, is a load of total rubbish. How hard can it be? One line of text..'Have a moral mission done.' Super tricky stuff. Nice work devs.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterD View Post
So, recently the sig rewards were changed, so you had to have confirmed your alignment (hero.villain) before you could pick the A merit.

Fair enough.

I don't mind the change but..NOWHERE does it actually mention, in game, that this needs to be done. Are the devs simply that slack, or stupid? Or both? A change that screws the rewards, yet people are meant to be checking the forums constantly, in order to actually find out about it?

But again, that isnt my issue.

Just now, I ran the arc with a few friends, on my MM, who began as a villain, and switched to 100% hero, about..5 months ago. SInce then, I hadnt actually done another set of tips with him (because he is poison and its junk). But he is STILL a hero. The last morality mission I did..a HERO one.

SO, we finish the arc, and the A merit option has the following message:
'You must have completed your most recent Morality Mission as a Hero reinforcing your Hero alignment to claim this reward.'

MMmm. Say WHAT? My most recent alignment? Which was a HERO! Or maybe I 'accidently' did 10 rogue tips as a Villain, came to paragon then accidently did another 10 Hero tips, plus Morality...and again, all accidently, became a ******* Hero??

How does swapping sides NOT reinforce my alignment? The alignment is CHANGED! Clearly, I am reinforcing it.

And the very fact that there is no mention at all of this, or even having to have done any alignment, before starting the arc, is a load of totally ********. ********. How hard can it be? One line of text..'Have a moral mission done.' Super tricky stuff. Nice work devs. Right up there with a bunch of idiots trying to **** a doorknob.
You're immensely over reacting and insulting the developers and swearing isn't warranted.

1) "Reinforcing your alignment" Means running an addition 10 tip missions + 1 morality mission after you have switched to your current alignment or as the first tip missions you do if they are the same as your current alignment. It is not time based.

2) The normal alignment system does not allow anyone to receive hero or villain merits before they have reinforced their alignment, before you reinforce your alignment you recieve 50 reward merits, rather than a hero/villain merit. The change to not allow villain/hero merits to characters that haven't reinforced their alignment was warranted because it wasn't precedented before, you could not receive hero/villain merits before without reinforcing your alignment

3) It's a 6-12 minute arc, or a bit longer if you did the second one, you didn't waste that much time and there are other reward options that you can choose instead of the hero or villain merit

4) Chill.


 

Posted

I like being insulting. I have this weird condition..when I see something that is stupid..I call it STUPID. Having no warning AT ALL about how the rewards change, is, guess what..stupid. Make any argument you like, go on. I will wait. Oh, that's right..you can't, cause it is stupid.

Can you seriously tell me it would take them a long time to add two lines of text??

And for the record, I can see your points too. Technically, doing a side switch isnt reinofcing your alignment..because it is a switch.

But, can you honestly say it actually makes sense? As I said, how does twenty tips and 2 moral missions, NOT count as reinforcing it? When I did that..I got the CtJ temp power, right? Tell me..DO you get that power, when you create a new toon, as a hero? Right, you do not. So, since I got said power, swapping from red to blue, WHY isnt that confirming myself as a Hero?

You can't even make the argument that if the system worked that way, it would be an unfair advantage, since people could just pick a toon, switch alignment, and be qualified to get A merits (without that alignment reinforcement). Why can't you argue that? Because it take 22 missions to switch sides! Or, you could stay on the same side, and confirm it in 11 missions. So again, even if the system did work in that way..no one would actually do it.

Also, if you think I am over reacting, or being rude (yes, I am, I admit it), I also sent an ingame petition, saying sorry for being rude, but the system is total garbage and I want an A merit. Not diplomatic, but hey, I am annoyed.


 

Posted

I also think its stupid. For a long time hero character, that can get into Fort Trident, to have to reaffirm he is a hero to get a hero merit from an SSA arc which is meant to save old heros. Saving Numina is not a good reaffirmation?

Also, how is someone under lvl 20 supposed to do this? Tips dont fall, and the first SSA is given in Skyway to anyone over lvl 10.


-Largo

Founder of A.G.O.N.Y. Supergroup on Victory
Member of Thought Sanctum VG on Victory
Member of St0rm Batallion SG on Guardian

 

Posted

Agreed Largo..oh I saved two members of teh FP..but..no, I am not 100% sure I am a hero yet! Gimme a break.

And another thing, the whole reinforcement issue REALLY sucks if you are a mid level toon and happen to have switched alignment.

I am playing a duo with a friend, lvl 27 atm. And we started hero side, in order to get the shiny new Twinshot badges. Then, we decided to go red, since she has not done much red content.

Because of that, we choose not to run the sig story arc, because we would only get reward merits, and lock ourselves out of the Bonus reward, for doing each bit for the first time.

Meaning, we had to do 10 tips + moral, to go vigilante. Then another 10 + moral, to become what is apparently a totally not sure if I really am a villain, villain.

Which is where we are now. But oh no, it can't end there! We have to do ANOTHER 11 missions, just to confirm our villain status. That's 33 missions,just because we wanted to, ya know, play the content.

I don't know about anyone else, but that load of crap makes me what to say bad bad words about the Sig arc system and never do it again.

Also, as Largo said, why do you NEED to reinforce your alignment in the first place, when the first arc is 10+, yet you cant get tips that level! And if the awarding of A merits without alignment reinforcing was SO broken (maybe a lil), why the hell did the arcs even get the option for A merits?? For 10-20 mins work, compared to 22+ missions, to earn the same reward normally.

It is things like this that make me wonder if they even play, or know how, to play their own game. Especially given the lack of any warnings or explanations on how said rewards work.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterD View Post
Also, as Largo said, why do you NEED to reinforce your alignment in the first place, when the first arc is 10+, yet you cant get tips that level! And if the awarding of A merits without alignment reinforcing was SO broken (maybe a lil), why the hell did the arcs even get the option for A merits?? For 10-20 mins work, compared to 22+ missions, to earn the same reward normally.
First of all, I 100% agree that there should be something in the game, preferably at the start of the arc, that flags up the change.

However, there is actually a reason behind the change, which was made to close a loophole that was allowing people to generate huge numbers of high-value recipes by repeatedly rolling up new toons and running the arcs for the first-time bonus. It's a rather clumsy fix, and it has some undesirable side-effects, but I guess it was the best that someone could come up with at the time.


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Death is part of my attack chain.

 

Posted

Yeah I understand why the change came in Grouchy...but like you say, the fix is stupid. Well, you did not literally say that..but anyway.

When the arcs were being tested, just the fact you could get two A merits, back to back, with no prior work, SHOULD have raised a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig red flag. Waved it with a damn chorus of trumpets playing too.

But..it didn't. Or if it did, it still went Live. Sometimes I wonder why this game even has a Test server, if things go live that are broken to anyone with half a days knowledge of gameplay mechanics.

The upshot being, anyone switching sides, anyone under 20, anyone who through no fault of their own, hasn't done 11 missions....gets shafted out of a reward (without doing the stupid things needed naturally) because...some genius designer did not realise that giving out 2 A merits for 20 mins time IS broken.

Another thought...a better fix would have been simple to scrap the A merit option altogether, and simple go with reward merits. Any thoughts on why that wasnt done? Here is my view.

The sig arc, unless you are a VIP and get it anyway, costs money to access. Now, I LIKE the sig arcs, they are fun, varied, interesting. Would I PAY for them, if I did not have access? A big flat resounding NO.

If they didnt have an A merit reward, I very much doubt people would play them, at least not more than once. Three missions in 20 minutes is hardly a massive undertaking. So they got people hooked with the nice easy merits..

Until..du du dun..*cue big comic lightblub* Wait a minute..2 merits in 20 mins? WHAT were we thinking?! Wtf indeed Sir Dev.

Hands up please if this reminds you of anything. Nice rewards, suddenly working out that it is too good, a quick, heavy handed nerf.

AE anyone? Hami farms, mm pet farms, ambush farms..all resulting in nerfs, as what should have been obvious from the start, gets squashed.

I see a pattern! And I am not even a mathematician.
To quote a favourite TV show..'The answer to treating car crash victims is not better medical care, it's seatbelts.'

The answer to these 'issues' is not to slap them with the nerf bat..the answer should have been the common sense to see what was going to happen.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterD View Post
But..it didn't. Or if it did, it still went Live. Sometimes I wonder why this game even has a Test server, if things go live that are broken to anyone with half a days knowledge of gameplay mechanics.
Not every reported bug will be a showstopper. If that was the case, the game would still be in Alpha.

--Rad


/whereami:

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radionuclide View Post
Not every reported bug will be a showstopper. If that was the case, the game would still be in Alpha.

--Rad
What counts as a showstopper bug? Tell me, please. Cause to me, one that hammers the rewards to one of the recently trumpeted bits of content in the game, sounds exactly like one.

Also, just to show how silly your comment was...remember back in..issue 13 I think it was, the global chat bug. When about 2 in 3 tells sent to global names, would NOT go through. Remember how annoying that was? Basically made forming a tf from friends impossible.

I am not saying that all bugs are found in Beta. I am sure that some only crop up when the issue is published. Back to my point though..that particular bug, so much hassle, to everyone playing..took about 2 months I think, to fix.

And when it finally was, do you know what happened Rad? We got this, in the patch notes, riiight down the bottom:
"Fixed a small issue with tells to global friends not being sent.'

Yes, that is correct..a SMALL issue. SO please, tell me, do, what WOULD class as a showstopper issue?
I know a lot of people who are annoyed at teh merit change, having previous been running the arc on low level alts. Also making the distinction, on current alts, NOT just rerolling for the first time bonus. And you know what, if they had of realised this in the first place, no one would be complaining!

Consider also, since clearly you didn't actually pay attention to what we have been saying..if just TWO lines of text were added into the contact info..problem solved! All gone! But no..only showstopper issues get a super important tricky sit round a table council of war fix like that, dont they.

Second point. DO I honestly believe that GMs do not have canned replies? YES I 100% cross my heart and hope never to drink tea again, DO. To clarify, do I think they never ever everest have any kind of canned reply? No, because a lot of what they reply is formula.

I have sent..estimated..50? petitions in 5 years. I have NEVER had a GM say they sympathise with my problem, not a single one. So why are you claiming it is a canned reply..when it patently is not? I have had good GMs, bad GMs, GMs who seem to have never played the game they are GMing....never one who was sorry to hear about my issue, and would have felt the same way (his words).


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterD View Post
What counts as a showstopper bug? Tell me, please. Cause to me, one that hammers the rewards to one of the recently trumpeted bits of content in the game, sounds exactly like one.
A "showstopper" bug would be like the one a little while back where summoning the non-combat Rikti Monkey pet would crash everyone nearby.

Quote:
Also, just to show how silly your comment was...remember back in..issue 13 I think it was, the global chat bug. When about 2 in 3 tells sent to global names, would NOT go through. Remember how annoying that was? Basically made forming a tf from friends impossible.

I am not saying that all bugs are found in Beta. I am sure that some only crop up when the issue is published. Back to my point though..that particular bug, so much hassle, to everyone playing..took about 2 months I think, to fix.

And when it finally was, do you know what happened Rad? We got this, in the patch notes, riiight down the bottom:
"Fixed a small issue with tells to global friends not being sent.'

Yes, that is correct..a SMALL issue. SO please, tell me, do, what WOULD class as a showstopper issue?
I was around for it. And as I recall, it was a bug that was damn hard to trace down, because not everyone was being affected. In fact, I never even noticed it hitting me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
Apostrophe guidelines.

 

Posted

The fact that any hero or villain could get an alignment merit, even those who had never run a tip mission in their life, was obviously a bug that was eventually going to be fixed. And when it was fixed it was announced in the same way that most changes are announced, on the main COH Patch Notes web page (no forum access necessary):

October 19th Patch Notes

So the announcement is well over a week old and publicly available to those that cared to look.

It is now working like it should have all along - those that qualify to get alignment merits via tips can get them via signature arcs. I'm sorry you didn't get the reward you thought you deserved but Paragon Studios DID in fact disclose the change well before you ran the arc.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreadShinobi View Post
You're immensely over reacting and insulting the developers and swearing isn't warranted.


4) Chill.
THIS!

The arc is so short, it's not that big of a deal that people might do it without knowing.

The fact that one has to reinforce, well you don't have to like it, but it does have a plan and some sense. Just as you are not given the hero power just for creating a hero [call to justice], you have to reinforce before you get it. It is the same with this. I don't see this as a big deal.


Global Name: Denver Nugget
Playing since i3 on 8 servers

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterD View Post
When the arcs were being tested, just the fact you could get two A merits, back to back, with no prior work, SHOULD have raised a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig red flag. Waved it with a damn chorus of trumpets playing too.
The requirement for getting alignment merits has always been to have completed a morality mission. As you point out, this was actually a bug that allowed players to get a reward they shouldn't have. But as a matter of policy, the devs often omit posting patch notes for the beta/test servers that alert players to potential exploits during the time the patch is on beta/test and before it goes live.

Yes, the devs should have updated the live patch notes with the two lines about the rewards change. That's the error here. Ranting about a reward being taken away that should never have been given is much like ranting about the devs "taking away" the myriad AE exploits over the years.

The real problem is not that the bug was fixed, but that the intended rewards were never documented clearly beforehand.

People using the beta server do indeed find a lot of bugs. But I don't recall the SSA arcs ever appearing on beta. I admit that I logged on to beta only infrequently between the current and previous betas, so I could have easily missed them. Did any end-users run them before they went live?

Most people copy over their favorite characters to beta, which are usually kitted out to the extreme. That typically means level 50 heroes and villains that have been getting alignment merits.

Which means end-user beta testers would have had an inherent bias against finding this bug, which affected level 15-20 characters, or characters that haven't done a morality mission.

To find this kind of bug we would have had to have a clear description of the intended rewards and then execute a test plan to test all the end cases. We don't usually get that level of detail in the patch notes, so it's very hard to know what things to do to catch these kinds of bugs.

This bug shouldn't raise any more ire than any other bug. Except that when everyone got two alignment merits in a row from running these arcs they saw them a ticket to getting easy merits. When that proved not to be true they got mad. Why do people get the most angry when unreasonable expectations are unmet?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodion View Post
Yes, the devs should have updated the live patch notes with the two lines about the rewards change. That's the error here. Ranting about a reward being taken away that should never have been given is much like ranting about the devs "taking away" the myriad AE exploits over the years.
It was in the patch notes for the 19th toward the bottom.

TASKS
Signature Story Arcs

* Players must now be reinforced as Heroes or Villains (i.e., their most recent Morality Mission reinforced their alignment) in order to claim Alignment Merits as rewards from Signature Story Arcs


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterD View Post
How does swapping sides NOT reinforce my alignment? The alignment is CHANGED! Clearly, I am reinforcing it.
Clearly, someone doesn't know the definition of "Reinforce".


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterD View Post
So, recently the sig rewards were changed, so you had to have confirmed your alignment (hero.villain) before you could pick the A merit.

Fair enough.

I don't mind the change but..NOWHERE does it actually mention, in game, that this needs to be done. Are the devs simply that slack, or stupid? Or both? A change that screws the rewards, yet people are meant to be checking the forums constantly, in order to actually find out about it?

But again, that isnt my issue.

Just now, I ran the arc with a few friends, on my MM, who began as a villain, and switched to 100% hero, about..5 months ago. Since then, I had not actually done another set of tips with him (because he is poison and its junk). But he is STILL a hero. The last morality mission I did..a HERO one.

SO, we finish the arc, and the A merit option has the following message:
'You must have completed your most recent Morality Mission as a Hero reinforcing your Hero alignment to claim this reward.'

MMmm. Say WHAT? My most recent alignment? Which was a HERO! Or maybe I 'accidently' did 10 rogue tips as a Villain, came to paragon then accidently did another 10 Hero tips, plus Morality...and again, all accidently, became a Hero??

How does swapping sides NOT reinforce my alignment? The alignment is CHANGED! Clearly, I am reinforcing it.

And the very fact that there is no mention at all of this, or even having to have done any alignment, before starting the arc, is a load of total rubbish. How hard can it be? One line of text..'Have a moral mission done.' Super tricky stuff. Nice work devs.
This reinforces my belief that instead of forum join dates listed under peoples handles, it should be there actual age.


Wash: "I've been under fire before. Well ... I've been in a fire. Actually, I was fired. I can handle myself."

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterD View Post
So, recently the sig rewards were changed, so you had to have confirmed your alignment (hero.villain) before you could pick the A merit.

Fair enough.

I don't mind the change but..NOWHERE does it actually mention, in game, that this needs to be done. Are the devs simply that slack, or stupid? Or both?
No, they simply make the mistake of assuming that the players aren't stupid. Their bad, I guess.

There was ZERO way of earning alignment merits without reinforcing alignment previously. Seemed pretty damn odd to me that the SSA's allowed it. Anyone who didn't fully expect this to be changed was stupid. Period. Anyone who CHOSE NOT TO READ THE PATCH NOTES where this was EXPLICITLY STATED can't complain that they weren't informed: The notice was there. The patcher said a patch was applied and a link on the patcher leads you to the patch notes. If you don't at least skim them, then it's your fault if you don't know the changes that were made.




Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden_Avariel View Post
The fact that any hero or villain could get an alignment merit, even those who had never run a tip mission in their life,
50 Reward Merits and 20 million inf. will net you an A-Merit without ever running a tip...


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyger42 View Post
There was ZERO way of earning alignment merits without reinforcing alignment previously.
wrong... 50 Reward Merits + 20 million inf. = A-Merit


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by nytflyr View Post
50 Reward Merits and 20 million inf. will net you an A-Merit without ever running a tip...
Correction, then: There was no REASONABLE/WORTHWHILE way....




Virtue Server
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyger42 View Post
Correction, then: There was no REASONABLE/WORTHWHILE way....
keep moving them goalposts


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by nytflyr View Post
keep moving them goalposts
What's your point? My point is still valid: A practically trivial method of earning A-merits with no previous effort was a painfully obvious bug.




Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyger42 View Post
What's your point? My point is still valid: A practically trivial method of earning A-merits with no previous effort was a painfully obvious bug.
And the wording makes me thing Vigilantes and roguges could choose them (not sure, don't have any Tourist types right now) which would then be deleted, if I'm not mistaken, as they are not allowed to have them.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyger42 View Post
What's your point? My point is still valid: A practically trivial method of earning A-merits with no previous effort was a painfully obvious bug.
Bad design? Yes. Bug? No. There's no evidence that the original implementation wasn't exactly what it was supposed to be, Paragon just failed to think things through.