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Originally Posted by Tyger42
Correction, then: There was no REASONABLE/WORTHWHILE way....
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Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
And the wording makes me thing Vigilantes and roguges could choose them (not sure, don't have any Tourist types right now) which would then be deleted, if I'm not mistaken, as they are not allowed to have them.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
Bad design? Yes. Bug? No. There's no evidence that the original implementation wasn't exactly what it was supposed to be, Paragon just failed to think things through.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
This is actually untrue as well. 20 million + 50 reward merits => 1 AM is actually profitable.
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Originally Posted by Tyger42
Aside from the fact that it was a blatant and obvious deviation from the established method of earning said rewards?
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Originally Posted by Tyger42
For the amount of effort generally required to amass both, not really. The sheer dumb luck of getting a rare IO recipe drop to make the money come quickly could also apply to simply getting the recipe you would have bought with the A-merits as a drop instead...
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Originally Posted by shaggy5
Can someone confirm that Rogue and Vigs cannot get them? I assume they cannot, but just wondering if there is confirmation.
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Originally Posted by Golden_Avariel
As of the 19th, only reinforced/reaffirmed heroes and villains can get an alignment merit. I'm not sure if that means you have to run enough morality missions to get the initial 50 merit reward or enough to actually snag an alignment merit. All the folks I've run it with so far have either not run tips at all or have run multiple moralities and were in fact holding hero merits at the time.
BTW - I was unaware that a hero who had never run tips could even get into Fort Trident, much less use the alignment merit store so I guess I should change my initial post to say "earn" instead of "get" an alignment merit. |
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Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
Except that with the conversion you have both. Anything you do to earn the merits is getting you a solid chunk of the inf, and there is no way that you can reliably get 30m+ recipes every 50 merits. No one is that lucky. But always spending your 1 Amerit on Kinetic Combat D/R and selling them for 40-90m you will be turning a 20-70m profit every time. that's way better than the odd RNG gives you on drops. There are those who have spreadsheets tracking hundreds of random amerit rolls showing a very high profit after crafting and conversion fees. Enough that saving 2 and getting luck of the gambler is not in the ballpark.
So, I'll trust the numbers. 20m +50merits = profitable. And it's not difficult either. Do it once and you have the money to do it again plus some left over. |
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Originally Posted by Tyger42
No, they simply make the mistake of assuming that the players aren't stupid. Their bad, I guess.
There was ZERO way of earning alignment merits without reinforcing alignment previously. Seemed pretty damn odd to me that the SSA's allowed it. Anyone who didn't fully expect this to be changed was stupid. Period. Anyone who CHOSE NOT TO READ THE PATCH NOTES where this was EXPLICITLY STATED can't complain that they weren't informed: The notice was there. The patcher said a patch was applied and a link on the patcher leads you to the patch notes. If you don't at least skim them, then it's your fault if you don't know the changes that were made. |
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Originally Posted by MisterD
Players are stupid huh? For not checking the patch notes religiously? How about all the people who don't even KNOW there are notes detailing every patch?
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| The people who got home after a hard day, updated while they made coffee, then sat down just wanting to PLAY, not read notes? |
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Originally Posted by Tyger42
What's your point? My point is still valid: A practically trivial method of earning A-merits with no previous effort was a painfully obvious bug.
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Originally Posted by MisterD
Painfully obvious? Huh..sounds like something to be considered a showstopper..and something that SHOULD have been realised in Beta. Well, before it even went to Beta honestly.
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Originally Posted by Tyger42
...how could you not know? There's a link on the launcher that says "patch notes" and the damn thing notifies you when a patch has been applied.
If they take accountability for being at fault for what they don't know because of it, fine. It's the ones who come here pitching a s***fit because of willful ignorance ( Which is exactly what choosing not to read the patch notes is. Note that "ignorance" is not an insult before you go off on that. Simply means lack of knowledge ) that are stupid. |
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Originally Posted by Tyger42
Showstopper? I do not think that word means what you think it means...
Funny how people keep claiming that Paragon is quick to fix bugs that benefit us, but slow to fix ones that harm us... Then when they leave one like this in for a few weeks, those same people claim they should have fixed it sooner if it was really a bug. I guess them not fixing bugs that benefit us is only bad when it is convenient for your argument. |
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Originally Posted by MisterD
How could they not know? Um, quite easily. Because, again, try listening here..NOT EVERYONE reads the patch notes. Have you got it yet? Is it a hard concept? Let's try something else. Does everyone who buys a computer game read the manual? No, they do not. People just like to get down to it.
I also like you accusing me of willful ignorance, when I DID say..I already knew about the change, prior to running the arc. Try to keep up smart guy. Again, I figured that since I did 33 missions, to change my alignment from vill to hero, and got the shiny Hero ONLY temp power..that I was in fact a Hero. But no. Let us consult all powerful google. re·in·force/ˌrē-inˈfôrs/ Verb: Strengthen or support, esp. with additional personnel or material. Strengthen (an existing feeling, idea, or habit). Oh, look at that smart guy. With additional material! You know, like the TEMP power I got for going from rogue to hero? Wow, isn't that funny. Strengthen? Well..surely if we look as 100% hero or villain as full strength Ideals, then going from rogue, a hallway ideal (50%), to the full power Hero one..counts as, you guessed it...Strengthening it! So in fact, if people did read the patch notes, which you still believe everyone does, its right up there with going to church every sunday for you right, anyone who was not sure of the wording, and checked the definition of Reinforce..would come to the SAME conclusion as me. The way the system is now, you have to repeat, or do an additional morality (or a first time one) in order to qualify. Does it mention repeating? In those magical, stone engraved patch notes? What, it doesn't?? No! Surely not. And lastly, I am not going to bother trying to making insults sound non-insulting with apparently cunning word play. You. Are. Stupid. |
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Originally Posted by MisterD
How can you say that Paragon does NOT quickly fix the good bugs, and delayed the 'bad' ones? It happens, like every issue! Do you actually play this game? DO you want me to list examples of this??
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Originally Posted by MisterD
How can you say that Paragon does NOT quickly fix the good bugs, and delayed the 'bad' ones? It happens, like every issue! Do you actually play this game? DO you want me to list examples of this??
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Originally Posted by MisterD
... and got the shiny Hero ONLY temp power..that I was in fact a Hero. But no.
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Originally Posted by Tyger42
You're the one who thinks initially ESTABLISHING your alignment is the same as REINFORCING it. You can't reinforce something that wasn't established to begin with. ( Frome your own copy/paste: "Strengthen (an existing feeling, idea, or habit)" In fact, you're pretty much the first person I've encountered that thinks that switching sides = "reinforcing your alignment". You mean you didn't notice that you didn't have the little "countdown" buff that comes as a result of reinforcing your alignment?
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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Getting back to the original subject, I agree with the original poster that more notification/explanation would be nice.
When you start out as a hero, running an Alignment mission to re-affirm your hero status seems pretty reasonable, or at least understandable. Running the same alignment mission when you are a different alignment, and then having to run an alignment mission again to re-affirm your new status, on the other hand seems counter-intuitive. At least, I didn't catch onto that until somebody explained it to me.
I agree that there's a slight problem with information distribution within the game, as far as the game offering guidance on how to actually play it. The player is left on his own quite often to find information however he can, sometimes, as in this case, mistaking features for bugs as he goes along. A little more "streamlining" to make sure the player learns the relevant information as he progresses through the game would be nice.
If you're a hero, I could kind of accept "you just do" as an explanation for why you have to run an alignment mission to get your rewards, I guess. But its a little harder to accept that explanation when you just ran the alignment mission to become a hero.
I think the counter-point brought up in this thread "you always have to run an alignment mission as a hero to get hero merits" makes sense as explained here in this thread, and I appreciate that, but its unfortunate that this kind of logic/explanation/guidance can't be found in the game at at the appropriate point.
More information would be good, but now that the explanations have been given, yes, this "bug" makes perfect sense.
We just need Rogue and Vigilante Merits now. :P
For what it is worth - the original patch notes just said "confirmed" as a hero or villain. Which is pretty vague. The "reinforced" wording was added a day or two later after people complained. It's not that big of a deal but it certainly could have been handled and explained quite a bit better.
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
Not that I endorse MisterD's terrible grammar, spelling, and atrocious manners (not that yours are all that much better by this point, but at least you didn't start out on the offensive), but he did in fact state that he has the Hero power.
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I do believe that you get the alignment countdown, followed by the power for just switching the alignment. You don't have to reaffirm the alignment. I have characters who have the alignment powers yet have never reaffirmed their alignments.
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Originally Posted by StarGeek
I do believe that you get the alignment countdown, followed by the power for just switching the alignment. You don't have to reaffirm the alignment. I have characters who have the alignment powers yet have never reaffirmed their alignments.
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Originally Posted by MisterD
Just now, I ran the arc with a few friends, on my MM, who began as a villain, and switched to 100% hero, about..5 months ago. Since then, I had not actually done another set of tips with him (because he is poison and its junk). But he is STILL a hero. The last morality mission I did..a HERO one.
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| 'You must have completed your most recent Morality Mission as a Hero reinforcing your Hero alignment to claim this reward.' |
| How does swapping sides NOT reinforce my alignment? The alignment is CHANGED! Clearly, I am reinforcing it. |
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Originally Posted by Tyger42
No, they simply make the mistake of assuming that the players aren't stupid. Their bad, I guess.
There was ZERO way of earning alignment merits without reinforcing alignment previously. Seemed pretty damn odd to me that the SSA's allowed it. Anyone who didn't fully expect this to be changed was stupid. Period. Anyone who CHOSE NOT TO READ THE PATCH NOTES where this was EXPLICITLY STATED can't complain that they weren't informed: The notice was there. The patcher said a patch was applied and a link on the patcher leads you to the patch notes. If you don't at least skim them, then it's your fault if you don't know the changes that were made. |