Lord Rahvin

...as opposed to actually caring enough about the game to spend money to help support it? Why is one so much better than the other?

If you don't like giving in-game achievements on the market, would you prefer if items available on the market couldn't be earned in the game? Or are you just against a market on general principle?

I still think it would be a better idea to sell permanent character items, as people make alts for this game all the time and would eventually have to replace the character item.

Being able to buy character items in discounted bundles would also be great.

I think this is true. It's more about the mindset or direction of development leaning toward this "play it our way or not at all" in what is otherwise supposedly a very freeform game of choice and opportunity.

Epic!!

I think you misunderstood (or I miscommunicated) my suggestion. I wasn't suggesting that it take up one of your available powers.

I know. I understand what you are saying, I just don't "get it". I'm not trying to persuade you. For me, it's frustrating that things like temp powers and costume emotes are locked behind missions and inventions and you have to unlock them on a per-character basis. I would prefer everything to be upfront when I design a character.

I paid to unlock capes at level 1 rather than wait until level 20, because I feel that many of my characters are "incomplete" at character generation and the ability to think of a concept and create it in the character generator is one of the big appeals for this game for me.

I don't really see playing this game as work, at at least I feel that I shouldn't. Its nice to get rewarded for mission arcs and things like that, but ultimately playing the game itself should be rewarding and fun. One of the better ways that City of Heroes achieves this is by having players decide which content to run and which not to. If all I want is the "reward" (a costume piece or temp power I probably should have anyway based on my heroic concept), I shouldn't have to run content I don't care about or waste time buying/selling at Wentworths in order to get that piece for my character.

It's nice that I have an alternative way of skipping some of the more tedious aspects of the game so I can focus on playing my heroes and running his story. Why should my roman-themed hero have to go to Rome and fight killer Romans before he can have his proper costume? Why should he have to wait 20 levels before the costume creator will let me make the character I want?

That being said, I was never very interested in the idea of temporary powers to begin with so this bundle doesn't interest me. Maybe some sort of "rechargeable" but not one that simply goes away until you invent/purchase it again. Plus the powers themselves aren't very spectacular or impressive.

If the game provides a means of getting for free what others choose to pay for, that seems like the ideal balanced hybrid model to me. If the pricing was right, I might even consider purchasing enhancements as a preference to "wasting time" building them.

But its not like "oh, well now that I've bought this I don't need to play anymore". If I don't feel the driving need to work anymore, that's probably a good thing because I'd rather by playing.

Plus availability is different from acquisition. Even if every reward was available on the Market, having choices between choosing which to purchase and which you're willing to earn can only improve the game.

That's my perspective. I'm not saying I don't respect yours, too, and I know a lot of people share it, but I just can't relate to it. I'm very much in favor of the idea of the paragon market (if not its pricing) making locked content easier to access.

I'd be in favor of them selling, for example, the Atlas Medallion badge. For those willing to buy it, it would cut out an annoying repetitive task from the building of their characters and help them focus only on their missions or other things they like about the game. For those unwilling or unable to spend money in the Paragon Market, they can invest a bit of time into unlocking the benefit the same as they've always been able to.

Would I run the Atlas Medallion errands if a simple purchase from the market meant I wouldn't have to? Probably not. And I don't regard that as a bad thing. Would I run the Zombie Apocalypse if I already had the benefit unlocked? I probably would, because fighting zombies is fun, especially when teamed up with others during a holiday event. It comes down to being able to customize your game experience, which is awesome for a game with so many players that embraces so many different genres and interests.

In the end, I expect Incarnates will be their compromise. They'll likely use the Paragon Market to eventually make everything available except Incarnate stuff, which you'll have to earn.

But we'll see. It's an interesting time to live in Paragon City.

Didn't they try to sell a whole pack of "superheroes having fun" emotes awhile back...?

I just will never understand this perspective.

If its that much work, they better get started then! :P

Just a general observation: A lot of people on these forums like to reply to suggestions by stating how much work those suggestions would take to implement. I'm not really sure why they bother being so practical in what is essentially a brainstorming forum. I don't think any suggesters really cares HOW its done or HOW MUCH work it takes. Only WHEN it can be done and HOW MUCH it would cost!

It doesn't do any of that stuff very well, but i guess that's another topic altogether...

I wouldn't mind this either. I just don't think the current origins are very well thought-out. Either they should be removed or improved so that their purpose is fulfilled. At the moment, I think they're biggest advantage is that it helps to ask questions about your character during character generation and gets you thinking about "how did I get my powers" and fleshing out your hero. I think that's useful, but I can understand why some others might disagree.

At the moment though, I like ways of defining and describing characters in the game. The origins appeal to me for much the same reasons that those little titles above people's names appeal to some. It's just another way of displaying/choosing some of the theme/style of your character.

But if origins were removed completely, I don't think I'd miss them. Right now they feel awkward and pointless, however, at least during character generation.



Geez, I'm sorry. I certainly didn't mean to pidgeonhole you.

That's a little bit extreme, isn't it? I'm just trying to say the current options have almost no definition to them, and many common themes for origins don't apply to the categories or apply to more than one. Since is the first choice you make in the game about your character, that's a little bit strange. It's even worse since the character generator doesn't reveal any of the consequences for your choice, not that there are that many.

You'll still have all the options that you ever did, just a few more choices to choose from. Geez. If you want to say your human/alien hybrid shoots light beams out of his eyes as a result of Training, that's fine I guess. Go ahead. I'm not stopping you.


See, this is why I'm saying that a little more definition is a good thing. By this logic, EVERYTHING is "natural". Anybody in your circumstances would have developed those powers.

Trained by the government? Natural, obviously.
Ex-military? Natural. Ninja training? Natural.
Infected by an alien spore? Natural, apparently, for some reason.
Bombarded by cosmic rays? Natural. Anybody bombarded like that would develop powers.
Come from another planet? Natural. Everybody there has powers.
A fairie from an alternate dimension? Natural, of course. Fairies can't get more natural.

Does this choice really reveal anything about your powers' origin at all?

What if you had picked up a magical hammer that transformed you into a demigod? Is that "natural" for the same reasons that bonding with an alien spore is natural? What if it wasn't a magical hammer, but an alien spaceship? The mystical tree of life? If something changes you and causes you have to super powers that definitely shouldn't be "natural". What if you're a ghost that holds onto reality by sheer force of will and randomly possesses someone? Would you want to lump every one of these examples under the same category?

You can't just apply anything and say its "natural" and this sort of reasoning is why I don't feel five categories is enough to lump many of the common origins. The merger of an alien symbiote with a human host always sounded like a medical augmentation to me, either through accident or purposeful infection, as neither creature possessed their powers initially. Regardless, there should be some kind of "alien" origin to represent the innate inherent abilities from people that are not human, to have a seperate origin from humans who have trained through work and conditioning. Totally different origins, backstories, concepts, etc.

If you were infected by an alien spore then the origin of your powers shouldn't be "natural". Your powers weren't natural to you, they were the result of something that happened to you. We should have an origin choice that reflects that.

"Natural" is so broad and elusive that its pointless as a category and doesn't give any hint as to how you got your powers. It therefore doesn't categorize anything nor does it inspire in any way. It is a nicer way of saying "Other" in City of Heroes lingo.

We can do better.

I wasn't really arguing for any significant changes to gameplay, such as enhancements or contacts. I just thought it might help flesh out the character generation screen a little bit, add to theme, and reduce confusion.

I'd be perfectly fine with enhancements in the Magic category, for example, applicable to both Artifacts and Mystics. Hell, once character generation is over, I wouldn't mind if the game just treated you as Magic in every way except said "Mystic (Magic)" or something in your ID profile.

I just find the current origin system kind of odd thematically. For example, people like to lump "Alien" under "Natural", which sounds odd and counter-intuitive and doesn't really add anything to the character generation process. If you make a psychic, for example, is that Natural or is that Mutant or what is it? There's no real guideline, so what's the point of having the choice if the obvious options aren't reflected in the available choices?

I just felt this expanded origin system would answer the "Where do your powers come from?" part of character generation in a way that categorically reflects many common origins in comic book literature.

As I said, its not intended to change anything in the game play, just correct and improve what I feel is a small and confusing hiccup in character generation. The origin selection has more to do with the overall theme of your character than any significant matter in gameplay so for gameplay purposes I would leave the 5 origins the same.