Discussion: City of Heroes Freedom Issue 21 Special Update: Media Blitz VIP Beta is now Active!
By
AquaJAWS,
Posted on: 2011-10-20 16:34 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
Now if the copy tool worked, this would be nice, since all of my characters on the beta server have been deleted.
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yes I was thinking that myself LOL
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Originally Posted by ResplendentMs
Now if the copy tool worked, this would be nice, since all of my characters on the beta server have been deleted.
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�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon
At first read, I think I approve of everything presented.
Some cool stuff there.
City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous
There's one notable thing I can think of.
The new options are cool, though, as are our new fixes. Thank you for correcting so many of the typos.
Is there no Domi/Base/AE/PvP love this patch, though?
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I agree. I was excited to test out the new incarnate abilities, only to find out my incarnate character's gone from the beta servers. Here's hoping they get the tool fixed quick, since it looks like a lot of fun!
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Originally Posted by ResplendentMs
Now if the copy tool worked, this would be nice, since all of my characters on the beta server have been deleted.
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The Paladin
Steel Canyon, Virtue
Exalted
@Paladin
I dunno, killing the emps on the BAF & Lam seems kinda strange to me. I could see doing that once the next tier of slots are unlocked, but limiting people that have already been running them as-is for a while now?
Guides: Dark Armor and IOs | SS/DA | Crabbing | Fortunata
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The only reasoning I can think of is that they both have become so easy that they want people to actually have a challenge to get the emp merits to up the tier of powers? To try and force people to run Keyes and Underground more?|
Originally Posted by Lobster
I dunno, killing the emps on the BAF & Lam seems kinda strange to me. I could see doing that once the next tier of slots are unlocked, but limiting people that have already been running them as-is for a while now?
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Persoally I was OK with the last setup. I'm sure this will have all kinds of DOOM crying associated with it.
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It's because we started off as if we were fighting white and yellows, but now the level shifts mean we're fighting blues amd greens, but for the same reward level, when no other content in the game really works like that.
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Originally Posted by AquaJAWS
The only reasoning I can think of is that they both have become so easy that they want people to actually have a challenge to get the emp merits to up the tier of powers? To try and force people to run Keyes and Underground more?
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Pretty sure the main reason to take away the emps from BAF/LAM is to reduce the amount of empyreans we are able to generate PER DAY. With another trial means another possible 2 emps per day. We already get 6 max per day and since pvp IOs(which we are all saving up for) take around 60-70 emps thats easy pickings to make lotsa inf or pimp out a build. That and I think the devs knew people were running 12 man bafs and 10-15 minute speed lams that all ignore objectives in order to reach the end reward as fast as possible.
EDIT
Minds of Mayhem will award Psychic Incarnate XP. Additionally, on completion it will award 2 Empyrean Merits. During the 20 hour cooldown, Minds of Mayhem awards 1 Empyrean Merit for each completion.
TPN Campus will award Physical Incarnate XP. Additionally, on completion it will award 2 Empyrean Merits. During the 20 hour cooldown, TPN Campus awards 1 Empyrean Merit for each completion.
yeah that is the main reason to cut down BAF/LAM emps. does the info above mean what i think it means running TPN and later on MoM back to back yields 4+2+2+2+ etc emps??? if so i just found my meal ticket to 2 bil inf without doing AE or playing the market.
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I guess they want to "incentivize" people into running the less popular trials.
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Originally Posted by Lobster
I dunno, killing the emps on the BAF & Lam seems kinda strange to me. I could see doing that once the next tier of slots are unlocked, but limiting people that have already been running them as-is for a while now?
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Yet, the per day volume is going to go up........
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Originally Posted by Vinceq1980
Pretty sure the main reason to take away the emps from BAF/LAM is to reduce the amount of empyreans we are able to generate PER DAY.
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City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous
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I don't know about you, but the primary characters I play during incarnate trials have level shifted alphas and level shifted Lores and Interfaces. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
It's because we started off as if we were fighting white and yellows, but now the level shifts mean we're fighting blues amd greens, but for the same reward level, when no other content in the game really works like that.
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They still con orange (minion) red (lieutenant) and purple (boss and AV) to me.
Server play styles can differ. And from what I could see, BAF had the easiest learning curve -- but, I've never played with a specific set of players like an SG. I'd say 80% of liberty treats its global channels (LB, SHF, LFA)as an SG and teams up through the channel. But, although I find BAF simple in the strategy, my squishies have never found any of the incarnate trials easy. They are reducing the award, but not the effort required. I cut my grass every week, have done so for years. That doesn't make it any less demanding.
This is a very challenging problem for the devs. Too easy and people will take advantage of it. Too hard, people will avoid it. (in general) I'm sure they're doing what they think is best. But, what WILL happen is people who don't want that level of challenge (from the new trials) will try them once. If they fail, they simply won't do them anymore. Obviously, this won't be everyone. Some will grit it out, look for guides and try for badges. But these folks will be in the minority. And, if the new trials are not percieved as "easy" to learn strategically, folks will simply stop playing incarnate content and go back to doing 15 minute ITF speed runs.
It's not that players are having difficulty executing the procedures during Keyes, players are having difficulty with the obstacles. UGT is strategically simple - it's just the goliath at the end has massive regen from those lichen which regen themselves pretty quick too. It's a time sink where the reward table comes down to a flip of a coin. Can the tank keep the AV turned away from the team and can the buffers keep the tank alive. Either they can or can't.
I can only say that I disagree with these BAF and Lambda changes. I know I don't see any reason to run them on toons that already have lore and destiny slotted. And I also think that I won't be able to find any teams for the toons that don't. And I'm not going to transfer to another server for the sake of going up the incarnate ladder. I was fine before this incarnate hooey, I'll be okay without it.
"Most people that have no idea what they are doing have no idea that they don't know what they are doing." - John Cleese
@Ukase
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Don't bring the truth into this discussion.|
Originally Posted by Ukaserex
I don't know about you, but the primary characters I play during incarnate trials have level shifted alphas and level shifted Lores and Interfaces.
They still con orange (minion) red (lieutenant) and purple (boss and AV) to me. |
The main problem I have with the emp changes is that it pushes you to not only run trials, but to run them in a particular order.
Run a UG before you complete opening the slots, and you effectively cheat yourself out of rewards in the long run.
The only sensible path is to farm baf and lam early so you already have all the components you need before you start the other two. Anything else results in needing to run more trials to earn the same rewards.
I made the mistake of running my MM through UG because it was available, and now I'm starting to consider that it would be more efficient to delete and re-level to 50 and do the trials in the "correct" order. Even if I eventually decide it's better to stick with the character now, it's still not something that should ever be close enough to be worth considering.
Freedom - run what we tell you to and when we tell you to.
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Yeah I'm not happy about that either. I've bought everything I need to so far, but it was a process I was... less than happy doing and it took me a long time to do it because farming them every day was just not an option if I wanted to continue enjoying the game.|
Originally Posted by Lobster
I dunno, killing the emps on the BAF & Lam seems kinda strange to me. I could see doing that once the next tier of slots are unlocked, but limiting people that have already been running them as-is for a while now?
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I was kinda looking forward to the new trials as I don't mind them from time to time, and having more means not having to repeat the same thing over and over nearly as regular to feel like I'm making progress.
Giving us more options while removing others means more of the same grindy farm day in day out approach I can't stand, and if future content is to be gated behind 'purchase' with these EMP merits (like the new incarnate powers) This, to be honest, really blows. Having a wider variety means not having to do the same thing every day to get where I want.
PLAYERS WILL GRIND BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO (or feel they have to for the rewards) NOT BECAUSE IT'S FUN.
My VIP account is at tier 9, with all the Celestial items purchased, and no desire to spend the other 5 (soon to be 6) I have in reserve at the moment on temporary consumables. If my only benefit to being a VIP is access to grindy farms that, as more are added others will be taken away, I may resort to just paying for everything else and dropping my sub.
I have my hero and villain 'mains' that all they need to 'fill out' their current Incarnate powers is have 2-3 Very Rares drop on them, and the ability to send others threads through Astrals and Emperian Merits has made the attempts to get them... tolerable. I mean the drop rate has been so abysmal, I have bought everything costume, aura, and spiffy thing (don't care about recipies) and still they need those VR's. I've all but given up.
Now to find that they're adding more Trials only to trivialize a couple others out of their rewards...
I wish I bothered with Facebook so I could use that /e Facepalm emote I'd pay money for in the store...
EDIT: I understand that they're doing this to promote players running the 'harder' more 'challenging' content over just running the BAF and Lambdas over and over, but this also penalizes the players that don't do that and just run them casually from time to time. The fact that you can only get your EMP merit rewards every 20 hours from any one trial is enough. Removing that won't stop the ones who are grinding and farming them over and over, they do it for other things. It'll just prevent the more casual players with bothering with them if they need those EMP merits for something, removing more opportunites from them.
"I play characters. I have to have a very strong visual appearance, backstory, name, etc. to get involved with a character, otherwise I simply won't play it very long. I'm not an RPer by any stretch of the imagination, but character concept is very important for me."- Back Alley Brawler
I couldn't agree more.
First off, I apologize about my previous 'rant' post. I'm not prone to making them but the loss of EMP merits on some of the trials and the changes to the Keyes Island did take me aback.
The first thing I thought of was something like this (really funny webcomic by the way) and would hate to see Paragon start falling into the ruts so many other MMO's are just now starting to walk away from (some taking ideas from this game, as a testament to it's innovation, in the process).
I enjoy the different levels of challenge each of the trials bring. On the occasions I want to do a trial, sometimes I just want an easy BAF; on others, when I have the time and desire to do a more complicated Keyes or Underground I enjoy them too.
I'm really curious as to why remove the option for some folks who do trials for the costume pieces and auras that can only be bought with EMP merits? This is from someone who has already bought all the 'shinies' (and yeah, I'm not happy with my luck in the Very Rare department but that is what it is. 
).
I seriously hope you reconsider some of these changes. Other than that, I'm looking foward to seeing how the new trials work once folks have figured them out.
"I play characters. I have to have a very strong visual appearance, backstory, name, etc. to get involved with a character, otherwise I simply won't play it very long. I'm not an RPer by any stretch of the imagination, but character concept is very important for me."- Back Alley Brawler
I couldn't agree more.
7 year VIP subscriber here. I'm unable to access the VIP beta server. I was under the impression it was open to all paying subscribers now? I'd love to get on and test the new content. Sounds exciting.
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Just use the Beta one...
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Originally Posted by PunchinJudy
7 year VIP subscriber here. I'm unable to access the VIP beta server. I was under the impression it was open to all paying subscribers now? I'd love to get on and test the new content. Sounds exciting.
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Nuff Said...
Coolio Wolfus leader of Coolio�s Crusaders on Union.
Tekna Logik leader of Tekna�s Tormentors on Defiant.
Creator of: Coolio's Tech Beacon Replacements
AE arc 402506, 'The Rise and Demise or Otherwise of Tekna Logik...'.
*sigh*
I can remember when BAF and Lambda were first introduced, the devs said they were purposely designed to be short so that those of us who don't have the extended play time to run long TFs and trials would have something we could participate in.
Now, they're taking away one of the best rewards for those two trials: the empyrians. Which I have been using to unlock stuff that I can't unlock with astrals, and we're being told the only way to get emps is to run the other trials. I don't know about anyone else, but the last time I ran an UG trial - only the 3rd or 4th time, because it's so effing hard nobody wants to run it - it took over 2 hours, and we still failed. Keyes has almost an equal failure rate, even less people recruiting for it, and takes probably an hour - of a lot of frustrating, not-fun running around like a chicken with your head cut off (and yes, I know the patch notes say this is going to change. Good. Maybe I'll find more motivation to run Keyes other than when I see the very occasional badge attempt).
I could run two STFs or three ITFs in that same amount of time - and there's a hell of a lot smaller chance that I'm going to FAIL and not get any reward at all. Not to mention, those two task forces (nor Lambda) turn my computer into a frigging slideshow, even with my audio off, my graphics on the lowest possible setting, and nothing else running on my computer. Not to mention further I'd have a lot more fun grinding out multiple STFs/ITFs in a row than I would running an UG trial.
So. This is yet another change coming down the line since Freedom launched that rankles me and makes me less motivated to play the game - and rethink my subscription. It's already bad enough that there are costume parts I can't unlock with anything other than Empyrians which CANNOT be earned any other way than grinding trials, but you guys are cutting down even the number of trials that reward them to the trials that are still tiresomely difficult and more importantly - REALLY LONG.
Just WTF? Why not incentivize people to run UG and Keyes instead of punishing those of us who can't/don't have the time to invest in them? Either that, or list the stuff that can only be bought with Empyrian merits to be bought with Astrals, too. Or make Empyrians available through some other manner - like trading reward tokens in for them or something.
I know there are hardcore players who can manage to log on and grind out stuff on various toons every night, but not all of us have the time to do that (I work one full time job, have another side job, and *somebody* has got to do stuff like keep the house clean and run errands). Why are you punishing us?
If you want people to run other trials more, make THOSE trials give more rewards instead of taking away the rewards other trials give. Crap like this is why most of my (relatively few, for someone playing since 2005) level 50s pretty much stop after the alpha slot gets unlocked.
Oh, don't even get me started on the charging 15 emps to unlock new stuff. I thought that's why I was paying my $15/month.
I totally agree with Lymebt. The 20 hour cool down and rewards for just right for the Lambda and BAF, and having a full time job as well, getting up at 6:00am and getting in at after 7:00pm, my time is very precious at the moment. A quick Lambda or BAF was a nice way to play my characters without taking too much time away from other RL commitments.
It's just typical. We, your loyal players base, become too good at your content. And so you've thrown the gameboard up in the air, as it were, and changed the rules. Not fair, guys. You should have made the rewards for the HARDER Incarnate Trials BETTER, as opposed to lowering the others!
Also, on a more important note. Endgame content is all well and good, but what about the way up to the Endgame? It's almost as if you expect us to be level 50 right away. The Sewer Trial was nice edition, and I like running that in my down time on my currently level 42 Blaster, it's good for about 2 bars and is quick. We need more content like that at every level range! And it's about time all the other TF's got a revamp. I'm talking about Citadel, Synapse, Sister Psyche, Manticore (make Hopkins harder. He's a massive anticlimax), and Numina (How long before you Nerf that so we can't all be in different zones to make it easier?), Moonfire (Basically a bunch of farm maps anyway). And I'm sure you're in the process of redoing all the enemy groups and zones? Focus on making the core stuff better. Quality of life improvements, not new additions! Endgame content is fine for now. Let it lie for a bit!
Well this is just great! Whatever happened to the so called solo path? Now you are nerfing the regular path? Seriously do you guys just say cut the rewards for every solution? Guess Im off to gring E-merits while I can.
Just ran my first UG. I know why people call it the ugh trial. If this is the direction the incarnate system is going then no thanks.
Unfun! plain and simple. Can't see anything with all the aura's/buffs in such a confined space. It was just herding the mass, slam buttons, and wait to get one shotted. Random returns from the hospital so you are running around trying to find everyone. blah! If this is the only way to get E-merits soon then I guess I know where I'm stopping at my progression.
We are pleased to announce that the Issue 21 Special Update: Media Blitz VIP Beta is now open to players. In addition, the VIP Beta Forums are accessible to VIP players as well. You can visit them here. Here are a few quick links for things you may be interested in!
Enjoy!
Kevin Callanan
Community Specialist
Paragon Studios