Discussion: Issue 21: Convergence - October 19, 2011 Patch Notes for Build 2120.201110150045.1

Crystalline · 10-19-2011 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsclark

Nope. Unless they changed it since I tried, selecting the level only limits which selections you see in the box. The resulting recipes are either your level or the max level for that recipe. No way for a 50 to get a level 15 recipe from a random roll.

But you can forego the random roll and choose a specific recipe at a specific level, such as if you want to get a recipe that is likely to sell better at lower levels. Now, I'm not sure if the person you were replying to was discussing random rolls or specific recipes, so my apologies if you already knew this.

MallardDuck · 10-19-2011 10:01 PM

The patch notes just say "confirm" your alignment. Seems like a little more detail about what that actually involves would have been really helpful. My villain has been a villain for quite a while, has the frenzy power and has earned the tip mission villain badge. But has obviously never "reinforced" his alignment with a second set of tip missions. Seems like he is a "confirmed" villain to me. But obviously not. Now I've lost 2 villain merits which kind of irks me. Not a huge deal - but still......

Brillig · 10-19-2011 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MallardDuck

Support told me you have to run 10 tip missions + morality mission to become a hero/villain and then an additional 10 tip missions + morality mission to "reinforce" the alignment before you will be able to get an A-merit now from the SSA.

Wow. That's quite borked.

Gideon · 10-20-2011 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brillig

Wow. That's quite borked.

We don't think it's quite that bad, but it is somewhat annoying. Current testing suggests that it's only tracking villain confirmations since the change went in.

Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Aggelakis · 10-20-2011 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MallardDuck

Support told me you have to run 10 tip missions + morality mission to become a hero/villain and then an additional 10 tip missions + morality mission to "reinforce" the alignment before you will be able to get an A-merit now from the SSA.

Uh, either you were asking from/about a Rogue or a Vigilante, or support is being balls-out stupid. Because it only takes doing one morality mission to reaffirm a hero or villain's alignment.

Incidentally, every single hero's reaffirmed status has been reset to zero. Even if they have their alignment power (Call to Justice). I think my villain is OK though, which seems odd.

(Devs hate heroes.)

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Talen Lee · 10-20-2011 01:42 AM

I am enjoying these delicious, delicious tears.

Honestly, guys. You're crowing about how very easy it was to get something that formerly took 2 days in 10 minutes, and acting like it's unreasonable for the devs to dial that rate of acquisition back?

Heroes, Villains ♦ Reviews ♦ Retrospect

Zortel · 10-20-2011 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talen Lee

I am enjoying these delicious, delicious tears.

Honestly, guys. You're crowing about how very easy it was to get something that formerly took 2 days in 10 minutes, and acting like it's unreasonable for the devs to dial that rate of acquisition back?

The way it's been handled is, IMO, shoddy.

They made no mention beforehand, which is standard practice for things they consider exploits, but! The only comment on it has been in this post. There's been no red name posts clarifying matters. No mention of the fact that even someone who's gained an A-Merit through the tip system has to run it again to be eligible, and no MOTD in game noting to people the change (because not everyone reads patch notes.)

Instead now people are discovering it isn't working the way it is, are posting on the boards and probably submitting bug and petition reports to support, and are getting conflicting information from support as to just what needs to be done.

-
SUPPORT - IT'S NOT JUST A GROUPING OF ATs
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More Than a Game
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Bloodspeaker · 10-20-2011 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MallardDuck

Support told me...

From my experience, support doesn't know their backside from a rusty bucket when it comes to what is "WAI" in the game. Ample evidence of that in regard to the monthly Reward Points... or is that quarterly?..

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Bardon · 10-20-2011 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aggelakis

Incidentally, every single hero's reaffirmed status has been reset to zero. Even if they have their alignment power (Call to Justice). I think my villain is OK though, which seems odd.

(Devs hate heroes.)

Now that's a stellar example of how NCSoft works.

There's nothing like good Quality Control, and NCSoft has nothing like good Quality Control.

nytflyr · 10-20-2011 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man

No, you need to run ONE once you're already at a Hero or Villain alignment. That's what "reaffirm" means.

As far being a "wrong choice to make with no warning or discussion," they're just giving SSAs the exact same prerequisite as other content for awarding Alignment Merits. I'm not going to argue that the change is annoying, but it makes perfect sense to me.

what prerequisite? You can get an AM for 50 regular merits and 20 millions without ever having to run a tip.

rsclark · 10-20-2011 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crystal_Smoke

But you can forego the random roll and choose a specific recipe at a specific level, such as if you want to get a recipe that is likely to sell better at lower levels. Now, I'm not sure if the person you were replying to was discussing random rolls or specific recipes, so my apologies if you already knew this.

Well, they said "roll a recipe", so if they were talk about selecting a specific recipe, they chose poor words.

rsclark · 10-20-2011 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talen Lee

I am enjoying these delicious, delicious tears.

Honestly, guys. You're crowing about how very easy it was to get something that formerly took 2 days in 10 minutes, and acting like it's unreasonable for the devs to dial that rate of acquisition back?

And it still does. You just have to wait a half week and do prep work, but from then on it still takes the same 10 minutes. What it does do it make using SSA to level in your teens a dumb idea. If you run it even once before you confirm, you waste your first run bonus. It's a trap. And, unfortunately, it's one they put in intentionally.

"Look guys, here's a level 10-20 mission - but if you run it at 15, you're an idiot."

That kind of thing shouldn't exist in a game except as unintended consequences, not as a design decision.

Balorn · 10-20-2011 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsclark

"Look guys, here's a level 10-20 mission - but if you run it at 15, you're an idiot."

Yeah, pretty much this.

IMO a much better way to do this would be to allow you to get alignment merits without requirement as before so you can at least not worry about things like this, but only allow entry into Fort Trident / Crucible if you have the Gallant / Dastardly badge. Heck, if nothing else they can put the bin behind a door that checks for the badge, similar to the door in Pocket D for the VIP lounge there (since it's proven they have the tech for a door badge check).

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Deacon_NA · 10-20-2011 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MallardDuck

After getting denied 2 villain merits tonight on a level 50 villain with the frenzy power and badge for becoming a villain via the tip missions - I was told you can now only get a hero/villain merit from the SSA if you have completed a second set of 10 tip missions that reinforces the current alignment. So you'll need to run 20 hero or villain tip missions now before the SSA drops an A-merit. Which seems quite wrong to make this change with no warning or discussion.

If true, this takes something that was terrible (the understanding that you needed to run a hero/vill alignment mission) and makes it terrible-er (that you need to run it AGAIN).

Honestly, devs, for the SSA, I have to give you a failing grade: F. F- if possible. Yes, the arcs themselves are short and pretty much fun, but the rollout has been abysmal, in addition to the alignment issues listed above, the rewards timer is on some 7 day schedule (instead of resetting on Tuesdays like WST) and provides NO indication of when you can run it for rewards again. Manual user work-arounds are the only solution in place right now.

I can't log in now due to maintenance, but I'm hoping the data is available as to whether you're currently in a state of "confirmed" or not. Otherwise, I'm just going to bow out of SSAs in general, except for my a-merit farmer who I know is confirmed.

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Issen · 10-20-2011 04:55 AM

Edit: Just learned the SSAs are in fact on a shared cooldown, rendering my entire post a moot point. I feel like an idiot now.

Issen · 10-20-2011 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zortel

The way it's been handled is, IMO, shoddy.

They made no mention beforehand, which is standard practice for things they consider exploits, but! The only comment on it has been in this post. There's been no red name posts clarifying matters. No mention of the fact that even someone who's gained an A-Merit through the tip system has to run it again to be eligible, and no MOTD in game noting to people the change (because not everyone reads patch notes.)

Instead now people are discovering it isn't working the way it is, are posting on the boards and probably submitting bug and petition reports to support, and are getting conflicting information from support as to just what needs to be done.

Well, to be honest, perhaps it's not an exploit so much as it was, "We didn't intend to have the rewards handed out in this fashion." If they want the merits to tie into the Alignment system (I should remind folks that both SSAs and Alignment are things that F2Ps and Premiums have to buy!) then making it a pre-requisite that you had to be a confirmed (aka, 10 tips + Morality) Hero/Villain makes perfect sense.

Sure, it's annoying, but it makes sense. As for the fact there's no warning...honestly, if folks AREN'T reading the patch notes that's not the dev's fault. I'm surprised folks DON'T check after patches to see what has/hasn't changed as a matter of routine/principle.

I do think that the "confirmed" status needs to be fixed, as several of my characters HAVE confirmed their Hero/Villain Status, but according to comments aren't eligible because they've reset whatever data-flag marks for alignment confirmation.

reiella · 10-20-2011 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deacon_NA

I can't log in now due to maintenance, but I'm hoping the data is available as to whether you're currently in a state of "confirmed" or not. Otherwise, I'm just going to bow out of SSAs in general, except for my a-merit farmer who I know is confirmed.

The only in game indication is at the reward screen.

Let's Dance!

nytflyr · 10-20-2011 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Issen

Well, to be honest, perhaps it's not an exploit so much as it was, "We didn't intend to have the rewards handed out in this fashion." If they want the merits to tie into the Alignment system (I should remind folks that both SSAs and Alignment are things that F2Ps and Premiums have to buy!) then making it a pre-requisite that you had to be a confirmed (aka, 10 tips + Morality) Hero/Villain makes perfect sense.

except you can purchase an A-merit for 20 mill and 50 hero merits without ever running a tip mission

Mephe · 10-20-2011 06:18 AM

This WAS indeed an exploit for getting 2 A merits per hour. Others have already posted how to do it. But here it is again for you slow people. This is no longer possible because now you need to to 10 tips + moraility and the rate is now 2 Amerits per 2 days, thats a big change from 2 per hour.

1 Make a new claws/electric brute.
2 Skip tutorial.
3 Change diff to 1/8
4 Go to AE search for CEBR.
5 Run CEBR Arc ~ 3 times get to level 17 in about 10-20 minutes.
6 Change diff to -1/1 no bosses
7 Run SSA1 * 2 to get 2 A meirts (1 for first time, 1 for weekly) (10 minute per run)
8 Hit for trident and buy miracle +recovery at level 20 for 2 A merits. Or CEBR up to 27 if you want a LOTG +rec or Num +rec.
9 Email recipie to your market toon
10 Profit
11 Delete toon and goto step 1

Now is the time to buy up all the cheep miracles/stealths on the market, because they will spike again now that this exploit is dead.

If you dont know what CEBR check out the brute forum.

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rsclark · 10-20-2011 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mephe

This WAS indeed an exploit for getting 2 A merits per hour. Others have already posted how to do it. But here it is again for you slow people. This is no longer possible because now you need to to 10 tips + moraility and the rate is now 2 Amerits per 2 days, thats a big change from 2 per hour.

Not really, because you can do it on multiple characters in parallel. There are more man hours involved in getting ready, but you can still churn out many more than 2 in 2 days.

More importantly, the "fix" also disrupts the ability to play the game normally and get the reward. As a fix, this is like swatting flies with a shotgun. Loud, abrasive, minimally effective, and excelling at collateral damage.

MadHobbit · 10-20-2011 07:05 AM

have not checked my toons yet on the alignment status, but my biggest complaint is that this comes out the day before one of the biggest annual events in the game.

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Rockinghorse · 10-20-2011 07:14 AM

"Signature Story Arcs
Players must now be confirmed as Heroes or Villains (i.e., their most recent Morality Mission confirmed their alignment) in order to claim Alignment Merits as rewards from Signature Story Arcs"

*sigh*

Creepy - Claws/WP Clown - 50 - August 10, 2008
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rsclark · 10-20-2011 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadHobbit

have not checked my toons yet on the alignment status, but my biggest complaint is that this comes out the day before one of the biggest annual events in the game.

"Look at the shiny shiny"

I can't help but suspect that is intentional.

_eeek_ · 10-20-2011 09:06 AM

But how do you know if any of your characters have run through the 10 tips missions and done the morality mission? I have a LOT of characters, I have no idea if anyone's done those through or not. Don't suppose a friendly Gull would tell us, huh?

And, doesn't this penalize the 10-19's (for whom the first arc is supposedly written) since they can't get the morality mission until level 20?

Does just purchasing a Hero Merit actually work? Seriously?

Wait, how do I know if I have purchased a H/V merit?

Where is that face/palm emote when you need it!

Mephe · 10-20-2011 09:14 AM

While I do think the way the SSA worked before allowed a huge rewards farming exploit, I do not agree with the way the devs "fixed" it. Sounds like we are getting some nasty untested collateral damage happening.

I would have just removed the Amerit as a reward along with a "We are sorry we should have never given out a huge reward on each part."

Now what I do think is that each SSA should give you a badge for completing and once you finish all the SSAs on each toon you get 7 amerits all at once (and only once because the reward is hooked to the accolade that is a combination of all the other SSA badges).

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