Discussion: Issue 21: Convergence - October 19, 2011 Patch Notes for Build 2120.201110150045.1
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2011-10-19 09:25 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
So frilled ascot fixed the next patch?
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You don't know that to be true. The point is that the devs are trying to raise the barrier to farming AM's until the acquisition rate falls to on they're comfortable with, and making people level to 20 and run the morality mission is a much higher barrier than just level 10.|
Originally Posted by St_Angelius
But stopping non confirmed heroes and villians from earning AM's will not stop that.
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It will definitely slow it down, which is what the devs are trying to do.
If this turns out not to do enough, I expect them to add more throttling.
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No, it isn't. That's "e.g." which can be interpreted as "for example."|
Originally Posted by AquaJAWS
i.e. is usually used to give an example,
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"I.e." can be interpreted as "in other words..."
@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
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Currently, the choices for these weapons are available, however the weapon change does not take effect upon confirmation.
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Originally Posted by Freitag
COMBINED
Beam Rifle
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Veridian Dynamics. Mistakes. We all make them. But sometimes mistakes lead to great discoveries. Mistakes are how we learn and grow... so we can do amazing things.
When you think about it, shouldn't you be thanking us for making mistakes? Veridian Dynamics. We're sorry. You're welcome.
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how can it not be true? anyone willing to play thr long game to aquire 25-35 AM 6 months from now, of solid play of almost nothing but farming a single mission weth dozens of alts, would think nothing of the extra week or so needed to PL to 20 insead of 10 and confirm their alignment. |
Originally Posted by Brillig
You don't know that to be true. The point is that the devs are trying to raise the barrier to farming AM's until the acquisition rate falls to on they're comfortable with, and making people level to 20 and run the morality mission is a much higher barrier than just level 10.
It will definitely slow it down, which is what the devs are trying to do. If this turns out not to do enough, I expect them to add more throttling. |
The only fix to stop a flood of AM's as you suggest is to put the cooldown to 1 month rather than 1 week, or just remove them all together.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Then it's time for them to get off the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.
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You are seriously suggesting that taking half a year to get pvp IOs is a "better" way to earn your stuff than just running tips and converting merits on a 20+?
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Originally Posted by Brillig
The relevance is this - you seem to be asserting that an AM is useless on a level 10 character. PVP-IO's show that this is wrong.
And a level 50 is not preferable for AM farming in the post-SSA world. You can get an AM through SSA in less then 10 minutes. Sure, you can only get one a week, but you can replicate this across a hundred characters. So while a 50 might be better for farming AMs serially, that's no longer competitive with massive parallelization through level 10's. |
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It's impossible to predict what people will do with precision. You'd think that $5 wouldn't be enough of an impediment to stop RMT spammers, but there it is, it works.|
Originally Posted by St_Angelius
how can it not be true? anyone willing to play thr long game to aquire 25-35 AM 6 months from now, of solid play of almost nothing but farming a single mission weth dozens of alts, would think nothing of the extra week or so needed to PL to 20 insead of 10 and confirm their alignment.
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| The only fix to stop a flood of AM's as you suggest is to put the cooldown to 1 month rather than 1 week, or just remove them all together. |
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Originally Posted by PowerLeveler
You are seriously suggesting that taking half a year to get pvp IOs is a "better" way to earn your stuff than just running tips and converting merits on a 20+?
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I'm suggesting that the devs don't care about any given recipe, they are watching the rate at which currency (in this case, AMs) enter the game, and they've decided that the rate with SSAs is too high.
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Yup. Those awesome perks of being a VIP are just getting better and better.
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Originally Posted by St_Angelius
so in other words, the first 10-20 arc now has 3 rewards for players that are above the level range of the arc.
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So, a massive increase in the availability of low level rares without a corresponding increase in inf generation. Sounds awesome. Anti-inflation for the win!
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Originally Posted by Katie V
Try the following: roll a CEBR brute. Powerlevel to 10 and turn off XP. Speedrun the first SSA, random-roll the resulting A-merit at Fort Trident, and dump the results on the market for 10 inf. Take your profits, mail them to your global, and delete the character. Repeat.
I'm betting that, with practice, you can get your cycle time down to under 20 minutes: 3 A-merit random rolls per hour for as long as you care to keep going. |
If they are going to restrict it like that then I would call for having the rewards table expanded with an extra item or two for non-50's.
20 reward merits is ok, but the game dumps them at you by the bucketful already.
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And again I say, 5 tips on 10 toons per day + 1 morality mish every other day introduces more AM's to the game per week than one SSA per week on on 10 toons would.|
Originally Posted by Brillig
I'm suggesting that the devs don't care about any given recipe, they are watching the rate at which currency (in this case, AMs) enter the game, and they've decided that the rate with SSAs is too high.
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And again, there is nothing stopping anyone that would level a bunch of toons to 10 to farm SSA's from leveling to 20 instead, confirming alignment and doing the same.
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Originally Posted by rsclark
So, a massive increase in the availability of low level rares without a corresponding increase in inf generation. Sounds awesome. Anti-inflation for the win!
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Then it's time for them to get off the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.
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Nope. Unless they changed it since I tried, selecting the level only limits which selections you see in the box. The resulting recipes are either your level or the max level for that recipe. No way for a 50 to get a level 15 recipe from a random roll.
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Originally Posted by St_Angelius
There is still nothing stopping thast from happening still. a L20-50 can roll a L10-15 recipie with AM's.
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The issue is that it would take longer for the 10 toons to do their tips + alignment missions than the SSA arcs.|
Originally Posted by St_Angelius
And again I say, 5 tips on 10 toons per day + 1 morality mish every other day introduces more AM's to the game per week than one SSA per week on on 10 toons would.
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Tips + Such is 5.5 missions/day. So, about 38.5 Missions/week.
Versus 3 missions/week for SSA. Even if we assume that the SSA missions and the Tip missions are of comparable length, I can do about 12 of them in the same time frame as one set.
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| And again, there is nothing stopping anyone that would level a bunch of toons to 10 to farm SSA's from leveling to 20 instead, confirming alignment and doing the same. |
I mean, I can have theoretically 207 characters farming [although the idea of 103.5 hours a week farming the SSAs is daunting
], and that 'endeavor' wouldn't take that would be a lot of LotGs to drop on the market.Although I'm almost tempted now to see if I can cause a bubble.
Let's Dance!
I'm quite certain there was a different/better answer to how this could have been accomplished. You've removed a selling point for premium players, and for us VIPs that aren't using it to abuse the system, you've added essentially more content for us to try to get to in the 20-30 range. You know, that level range that nearly every new thing is added into leaving it impossible to see even a majority of it while still teaming normally. Do not like.
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Isn't that the entire point of having time gated content? If you want to just add massive barriers to something you require more hours to accomplish it - time gating doesn't help to do that. What time gating accomplishes is to equalize the game a bit between people who can spend 8 hours a day playing and people who might get in 2 a week. They can both get some rewards in a reasonable time without the ubers flooding the market.|
Originally Posted by reiella
The issue is that it would take longer for the 10 toons to do their tips + alignment missions than the SSA arcs.
Tips + Such is 5.5 missions/day. So, about 38.5 Missions/week. Versus 3 missions/week for SSA. Even if we assume that the SSA missions and the Tip missions are of comparable length, I can do about 12 of them in the same time frame as one set. |
If your intent is not to allow a reward structure that allows people to trade a shorter play time for a longer overall time, then time gating the content is stupid.
Ok, just to clarify, does this mean I have to do 1 tip mission to "confirm my alignment" or that I have to do the 10 tip missions + alignment mission or whatever before I can continue earning hero merits on my heroes? Because, gotta be honest, never bothered with confirming my alignment, just seems like a waste of time and earning merits via the SSAs is way faster and more convenient.
10 Tips + Morality Mission.
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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Me thinks the reason bla bla bla bases bla bla bla banners yakity smakity bla bla bla is because bla bla bla bla yackity bla bla smakity bla bla bases bla bla bla and this time for some reason bla bla bla bla hated leaving it on Infinity. doesn't matter now because bla bla bla hasn't bla bla bla crafted anything working bla bla bla because more words and stuf while they can't bla bla bla into submission.|
Originally Posted by Xanatos
No PVP bug fixes.
No Base bug fixes. |
I hope that helps.
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
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You're confusing i.e. with e.g., and when used correctly and literally it does indeed signify an exhaustive list.|
Originally Posted by AquaJAWS
i.e. is usually used to give an example, not the exclusive only way for something.
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Helpful URL
As for something on topic, I think there might need to be some overhauls in the process for logging bug fixes and patch notes, because since Freedom launched there have been a lot of discrepancies between what is reported as fixed and what is actually fixed.
A circle forms, everybody comes round
Just to hear the incredible sound
Of a genius smashing expectations
- Jonathan Coulton
you finally fixed diamagnetic!!! geeze ty!!
After getting denied 2 villain merits tonight on a level 50 villain with the frenzy power and badge for becoming a villain via the tip missions - I was told you can now only get a hero/villain merit from the SSA if you have completed a second set of 10 tip missions that reinforces the current alignment. So you'll need to run 20 hero or villain tip missions now before the SSA drops an A-merit. Which seems quite wrong to make this change with no warning or discussion.
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No, you need to run ONE once you're already at a Hero or Villain alignment. That's what "reaffirm" means.|
Originally Posted by MallardDuck
After getting denied 2 villain merits tonight on a level 50 villain with the frenzy power and badge for becoming a villain via the tip missions - I was told you can now only get a hero/villain merit from the SSA if you have completed a second set of 10 tip missions that reinforces the current alignment. So you'll need to run 20 hero or villain tip missions now before the SSA drops an A-merit. Which seems quite wrong to make this change with no warning or discussion.
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As far being a "wrong choice to make with no warning or discussion," they're just giving SSAs the exact same prerequisite as other content for awarding Alignment Merits. I'm not going to argue that the change is annoying, but it makes perfect sense to me.
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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Support told me you have to run 10 tip missions + morality mission to become a hero/villain and then an additional 10 tip missions + morality mission to "reinforce" the alignment before you will be able to get an A-merit now from the SSA.
Right. One Morality mission once you're already at your alignment. Again, that's what "reaffirm" means.
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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No, the argument was about whether the devs are trying to throttle the acquisition rates of AM's in order to cut down on farming. And in that light, the devs don't care about the 'minimum time to recipe' which you are talking about, what they care about is the overall rate at which things enter the economy.
So you are still wrong, because tip farming introduces AM's into the game more slowly than the SSA.
Still doesn't make a L10-20 arc, that makes 3 out of 4 of it's posible rewards unclaimable by the intended level characters, make any sence at all.
I doubt the devs intended to saturate the market with AMerits. Heck, I was noting to a friend the other day how the ease with which you can earn AMerits through the SSAs (Each part of the Arc grants you 2 merits for the first two times you run, that's FOURTEEN AMerits once all 7 parts are out) and how it'll be disturbingly easy to get those expensive IOs.
I'm pretty sure at some point the devs had the same thought and realized this wasn't the intended outcome.