The Walking Dead


2short2care

 

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Originally Posted by Mystic_Fortune View Post
I'm asking you who you think should have been attacked and bitten by a zombie last night. Clearly you have it in for someone, because you don't think the assault on the barn should have gone so 'smoothly'. Maybe Shane should have gotten bitten, that would have been delicious irony.
There were a lot of possible consequences I had considered:
  • Hershel killing Shane for taking a steaming dump on the rules of the farm.
  • Carol bitten and killed as her reunion with Sophia goes south.
  • Shane shot and killed by Carl as he's seen jeopardizing their stay on the farm.
  • Dale shot and killed by Shane in the chaos of the barn breakout.
  • Shane killed by one of the zombies as they escaped.
  • The kids Hershel took in getting eaten like Hershel's other children do in the comics.

As far as those who should have died? I'm thinking anyone who's had less than ten lines of dialogue or otherwise been useless this season.

So T-Dog, Carol, the kids staying with Hershel, and possibly Patricia.


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Posted

God I just finished watching the latest episode of The Walking Dead. Read the comics Volume by Volume so I'm a big fan of the series and show. But that last part freaked every joint in my body. I thought that when we heard that heavy breathing of the last walker, I thought it may have been Hersehl's wife or step-son. Then I saw the small shoes, the horror. Perfect way to end for the break.

So how long till we see more episodes?


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Mystic_Fortune View Post
I'm asking you who you think should have been attacked and bitten by a zombie last night. Clearly you have it in for someone, because you don't think the assault on the barn should have gone so 'smoothly'. Maybe Shane should have gotten bitten, that would have been delicious irony.
Well, had Herschel had the number of kids we saw in the comics, it would've been two of them getting bit. One by the brother that is in the barn and the other, iirc, getting swarmed.

See, the thing about the kids is that while they are never really developed as characters, beyond Maggie, is that they are a marker of sorts for Herschel. Herschel is basically (IMO) Job from the Bible.

Herschel had, iirc, a total of six children in the comics. A pair of girls slightly older than Carl, the son in the barn, another son younger than Glenn (about the age of that blonde kid I think), a daughter around Maggie's age, and Maggie.

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I must have missed that. Thanks for the correction. It still raises the question of why the zombie that attacked her didn't finish the job. It's not like they kill for sport and move on and it's unlikely that she would have killed it and gotten away. But, that's just me needing questions answered I guess.
She wouldn't need to have killed it. She could've gotten bit while scavenging by a lurker, pushed it enough to get away, then crawled off somewhere and died from either blood loss or the bite. Don't underestimate the effect that adrenaline can have.

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So how long till we see more episodes?
February.



 

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Originally Posted by Dark One View Post
Herschel is basically (IMO) Job from the Bible.

Herschel had, iirc, a total of six children in the comics. A pair of girls slightly older than Carl, the son in the barn, another son younger than Glenn (about the age of that blonde kid I think), a daughter around Maggie's age, and Maggie.
I said the same thing earlier in post #462, but didnt get any feedback. Glad to see Im not the only one tying this over religious dude into the Job concept/story.


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Originally Posted by CrazyJerseyan View Post
I said the same thing earlier in post #462, but didnt get any feedback. Glad to see Im not the only one tying this over religious dude into the Job concept/story.
TV show Herschel, not so much with the Job thing. At least so far. He's not lost nearly as much as others.

Comic Herschel? A lot closer.



 

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So if Herschel gets bitten does he then become Herschel Walker?


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Originally Posted by EnigmaBlack View Post
So if Herschel gets bitten does he then become Herschel Walker?
Hah!


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Posted

Just watched the mid-season closer last night.

Thoughts:

- It would have been better if Herschel did know that Sophia was in the barn. Wrangling zombies into the barn would have been a great excuse for him to ask Rick to join him up in the hayloft and point the little girl zombie out too him. It also makes specific sense, in that he prevented Rick and Andrea from going out searching - he was going to tell them with a tough demonstration. "It's not quite so easy, Rick, when they are the people that we love. There she is, the little girl you've risked life and limb for, the one that Darryl nearly died for. She's a part of your group, and it's your choice what to do with her." At least, that's what I'm going to pretend Herschel was going for. Which leads into...

- The final confrontation at the barn was nicely done, and it really underscored Herschel's point. It's easy to shoot a walker when you don't know who they were. Notice that Rick's the only one who could do what needed to be done - Shane couldn't bring himself to do it. That's why Rick gets to be the moral center of the group, Shane.

- What Shane did was the right thing to do to the walkers in the barn, but it was the wrong way to go about it. If Rick wasn't there, the next step would be to put Herschel up against the wall and take the farm for themselves. Shane would have no issue with the theft, and the only other person in the group who would have objected instead of just shrugging and saying "What's done is done" would be Dale. And it's pretty clear that, if Rick wasn't around, Dale wouldn't be either. Shane was psyching himself up to take the farm away from Herschel - we'll see if Rick or the Sophia incident takes the wind out of his sails, or if he goes for it.

- I was expecting either Rick or Darryl to take down the Sophia walker. I can see why they had Rick do it, but I think it would have made for a very interesting extra layer to the Darryl/Caroline relationship.

- I liked the pacing on this episode. More like this, please. Shame about the rest of the episodes this season.

- I was hoping for a better reaction from Shane, a little shame or regret, when Carl showed that he was a better man than Shane was.


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Posted

So, now that we know we won't be seeing it in the show, anyone care to spoil me in regards to the "nice but small" interactions of Sophia and Carl?


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Posted

Just a few thoughts...

On the subject of pacing differences between the comics and the show, I can think of two reasons:

1) The comicbooks are published monthly (as far as I know). As a result, something exciting has to happen in every issue to keep readers coming back. In a universe where the Walking Dead comicbook spent half a year's worth of issues dealing with the search for one little girl there would be no Walking Dead TV show because the book wouldn't have lasted more than about 12 or 16 issues. With a TV show, you only have to wait a week for the next episode, and even then the slow pace of this season had a lot of people complaining and probably cost the show a fair number of viewers.

2) The comicbook doesn't have to worry about a special effects budget, so something exciting can happen every issue. You can show a hundred walkers attacking people five times in an issue of the comicbook, but if you have five zombie hoards an episode in the show, you're going to go way over budget, so it's necessary to draw things out with character development and non-action sequences.


On the subject of the safety of the farm - from what we've seen, the farm is in an area of wide open rolling hills and woodlands, and the number of nearby zombies is very small. In such an environment, gunfire, even sustained gunfire like we saw in the last episode, would be rather hard to pin down from a significant distance due to echos and such. Zombies, not being shown to be very smart, would probably perk up at the initial sound, and a half dozen or so that might be nearby might figure out where it came from, but I really doubt they would arrive in any significant numbers. As I said before, I'd be more concerned bout drawing the attention of other survivors.


Regarding the logic behind kicking out Rick's group - in the comicbook it made more sense because the seasons actually changed and it was winter, and Herschel hadn't stored enough food to feed that many more people over the winter. In the show, it appears that despite talking about winter, it's going to remain perpetually summer, so the possibility of a food shortage doesn't seem as imminent. However, didn't Hershel say that there were other farms nearby that Rick's group could move to? It's not like he was telling them to hit the road and hope for the best, just move next door and stop eating all my damn food.


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Maggie points out to him why kicking them out is a big deal. He's under-informed about the outside world...she's been out and about;everything nearby is toast.


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Originally Posted by Arnabas View Post
So, now that we know we won't be seeing it in the show, anyone care to spoil me in regards to the "nice but small" interactions of Sophia and Carl?
Incoming spoilers, then:
  • Sophia wondering about if her daddy will come back like Carl's, only to have Carl flatly point out that his daddy was just asleep and her's is dead.
  • Sophia wanting to be boyfriend and girlfriend with Carl but getting turned down.
  • Carl deciding he wants to be boyfriend and girlfriend after getting shot.
  • Carl and Sophia holding hands while staring at the zombies on the other side of the prison fences and talking about how the zombies look sad.
  • Sophia asking Carl about whether or not he gets scared every time his dad goes on a mission.

That's off the top of my head without any coffee. I'm sure there's more.


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Posted

One other difference between the comicbook and the TV show - in the comicbook when Rick wants to teach Carl how to shoot a gun, Lori states that Carl is, "only seven years old," whereas in the show he is obviously older than that. Comicbook Sophia appears to be about the same age as comicbook Carl.

ETA: IIRC, Hershel in the TV show has at least one daughter around Carl's age who could fill in for Sophia in the future.


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Posted

So they didn't have the whole Sophia is lost arc in the comicbooks, I take it they didn't kill her off either in the comicbooks, am I right?


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Posted

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Originally Posted by 2short2care View Post
So they didn't have the whole Sophia is lost arc in the comicbooks, I take it they didn't kill her off either in the comicbooks, am I right?
Still alive as of Volume 14.



 

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Originally Posted by mousedroid View Post
ETA: IIRC, Hershel in the TV show has at least one daughter around Carl's age who could fill in for Sophia in the future.
From the Wikipedia article (shortened a bit content-wise to what is relevant):

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Greene Family and Friends
Name (Actor/actress)
Hershel Greene (Scott Wilson)

Maggie Greene (Lauren Cohan)

Beth Greene (Emily Kinney)
Hershel's youngest daughter; she's sixteen and has a boyfriend named Jimmy, and shares her family's farm with the Atlanta group.

Patricia (Jane McNeill)

Jimmy (James McCune)
Beth's seventeen year old boyfriend, who resides at the Greene farm along with her family and now the Atlanta group. He's shown to be eager to have a gun and attempts to get one from Rick without Hershel's permission.
So, no girlfriend for Carl. (At least not one we've met yet.)


I find your lack of signature disturbing.

 

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Originally Posted by Frost Warden View Post
From the Wikipedia article (shortened a bit content-wise to what is relevant):



So, no girlfriend for Carl. (At least not one we've met yet.)
Maybe Beth and Jimmy will be replacements for Tyreese's daughter and her boyfriend and he will show up with a younger daughter to replace Sophia. Which opens up some other possibilities for changes to things that happen at the prison.


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Originally Posted by Frosty_Femme View Post
Maybe Beth and Jimmy will be replacements for Tyreese's daughter and her boyfriend and he will show up with a younger daughter to replace Sophia. Which opens up some other possibilities for changes to things that happen at the prison.
Given what happens to Tyreese's daughter and boyfriend, I can't really see those two being a replacement for that. Even though that is a very significant plot point for the series.



 

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Originally Posted by Frosty_Femme View Post
Maybe Beth and Jimmy will be replacements for Tyreese's daughter and her boyfriend and he will show up with a younger daughter to replace Sophia. Which opens up some other possibilities for changes to things that happen at the prison.
That could work. Of course, with the fact that we've not had some characters but added some new ones, we might have different extras. I'm content if they decide to remove some characters, as long as the characters they have are nicely fleshed out.


I find your lack of signature disturbing.

 

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Originally Posted by Dark One View Post
Given what happens to Tyreese's daughter and boyfriend, I can't really see those two being a replacement for that. Even though that is a very significant plot point for the series.
Said plot point which could also be shown in different ways. It wasn't so much on who was involved in that plot point, as to what actually happened.


I find your lack of signature disturbing.

 

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Originally Posted by Frost Warden View Post
Said plot point which could also be shown in different ways. It wasn't so much on who was involved in that plot point, as to what actually happened.
While they could do it, I don't think they will with those characters. Simply because it would go against pretty much everything Herschel has (presumably) taught Beth over the course of her life. I'm not talking just since Z-day, but the whole bit. And from what little we've seen of Jimmy, he doesn't seem the type to do it either.

Carol? Ya, I could see her doing it. Possibly even Patricia. It would be best to bring in some new characters that exist only for the purpose of showing that.

Though they might not even have to do it, since we've got the secret from CDC guy.



 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Dark One View Post
While they could do it, I don't think they will with those characters. Simply because it would go against pretty much everything Herschel has (presumably) taught Beth over the course of her life. I'm not talking just since Z-day, but the whole bit. And from what little we've seen of Jimmy, he doesn't seem the type to do it either.

Carol? Ya, I could see her doing it. Possibly even Patricia. It would be best to bring in some new characters that exist only for the purpose of showing that.

Though they might not even have to do it, since we've got the secret from CDC guy.
Good points. Guess I was trying to say that we could have generic persons 1 & 2 do that plot point, versus Beth and Jimmy. It may not be Tyreese's daughter and boyfriend, but just some other extras brought along to further the story along.

As far as the knowledge from Jenner, I believe that it would still need to happen to bring out the truth. Rick would more than likely never say anything, unless it happened, and he had to explain it. Otherwise, he'd probably take it to his grave.


I find your lack of signature disturbing.

 

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I agree with pretty much everything Frost Warden said (and no it's not just the ice brigade sticking together). Tyreese certainly didn't teach his daughter that it was an acceptable thing to do, but it happened anyway. Herschel needs to lose some family if he's ever going to get to the same point in the show as he did in the comic. And there needs to be a catalyst for what Dr. Jenner told Rick. I'm predicting that it will either be Beth and Jimmy or Shane that provides that catalyst, probably in the season finale. Possibly both.


your = Belonging to you.
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Ur = The name of an ancient Mesopotamian city.
ur = This is not a word.

 

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There's an ice brigade? I demand membership!


 

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Originally Posted by Frosty_Femme View Post
I'm just going to say it. Everyone is infected and Zombie Sophia is the proof. Granted they didn't show every inch of her body, but where were the bites? If she was attacked by a zombie, why didn't it eat more of her before she turned? We've seen what they do. They rip you apart. She wasn't ripped apart. She was fully intact from what I saw. Just...dead. So, she must not have been attacked. Which means she died from something else. Disease? Exposure? Starvation? Then she came back. Everyone is already infected. And that's what Dr. Jenner told Rick at the CDC.
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Originally Posted by Frosty_Femme View Post
I must have missed that. Thanks for the correction. It still raises the question of why the zombie that attacked her didn't finish the job. It's not like they kill for sport and move on and it's unlikely that she would have killed it and gotten away. But, that's just me needing questions answered I guess.
According to what they said in The Talking Dead (the weekly interview show AMC runs after each new Walking Dead episode) the makers of the show purposely wanted to show zombie-Sophia as "almost alive" as far as damage to her body goes.

They did a test version of her makeup where she was more bloody and ripped up than we see in the episode. They decided that it would be better for her to appear less damaged so that it would end up being more tragic for Rick to have to shoot her. I think the idea was that if she looked as "normal" as possible it'd be more like Rick was shooting an innocent girl instead of a monster. For what it's worth I agree with the choice. Having Sophia appear as alive as possible made the entire scenario that much more tragic and horrifying.

As far as the Dr. Jenner secret goes I've pretty much always assumed it was something along the lines of "everyone's infected". That's exactly why Jenner would've thought things were hopeless enough to want to commit suicide. But even though everyone has the zombie virus I think what the TV show will develop is the idea that not everyone is infected enough when they die to actually become a fully active walker. We've already seen plenty of dead bodies which are completely dead - not zombies. I think this is a hint that some people might actually only become carriers of the disease and will never succumb to it when they die. Just like with any natural disease there tends to be at least a few people (like Typhoid Mary) who are naturally immune to it. I think we'll find out the same will be true of the zombie virus.


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