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I'm not sure how fast a person reads the comic has much to do with the "pacing" of the story as presented. If the comic only gives you a few panels of text to cover something that needs to be further covered for better dramatic effect then it doesn't really matter how fast a person reads. |
Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
The pacing is quicker without a doubt, but then you have to factor in your reading speed and how much you're taking in the dialogue in addition to the artwork. A comic can be read in no time at all. A lot of the pacing depends on the reader. However, in the comics they condense certain subjects better than they're doing in the show now. They certainly cut the balls off the confrontation between Rick and Hershel about them leaving in the show.
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I'm by no means trying to argue that the TV show is the unqualified "better" version of the story. But I do believe it's been better able to handle many of the "dynamics" of the plot by being able to delve into some parts of the story that the comic merely glanced over. Again I favor the idea that the two formats can serve as complementary to each other. I simply prefer to enjoy the strengths they both bring to the table.
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It was totally in keeping with Shane's character for him for handle the situation the way he did. And seeing as the episode ended before the smoke had even cleared from Rick's pistol, I'd say it's a bit premature to say there were no consequences.
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Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
Her coming out last seemed all the more forced since we've seen the inside of the barn several times already. Glenn's actually been in there and apparently Shane and undoubtedly several others hovered around and peeked in the barn since they found out about it. If they wanted to go that route, I think it would've been a better decision to keep the barn zombies unseen until that scene.
It was still an unnecessary risk, and it didn't even come with consequences, which takes some of the edge away from the zombies and the world they live in now. |
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I disagree with this. That was a great scene, maybe different in the comic, but well done. (assuming you mean the table/kitchen discussion)
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Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
They certainly cut the balls off the confrontation between Rick and Hershel about them leaving in the show.
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I was saying that how fast you read is going to affect how quickly you get through those points no matter what, and having the writer already condense key points in the dialogue makes it seems all that much quicker. |
Originally Posted by Lothic
I'm not sure how fast a person reads the comic has much to do with the "pacing" of the story as presented. If the comic only gives you a few panels of text to cover something that needs to be further covered for better dramatic effect then it doesn't really matter how fast a person reads.
I'm by no means trying to argue that the TV show is the unqualified "better" version of the story. But I do believe it's been better able to handle many of the "dynamics" of the plot by being able to delve into some parts of the story that the comic merely glanced over. Again I favor the idea that the two formats can serve as complementary to each other. I simply prefer to enjoy the strengths they both bring to the table. |
And about the only thing I will say they've expanded on at this point that needed it was Maggie's perspective on the barn zombies.
- CaptainFoamerang
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And as Furio said I strongly doubt that the "confrontation" between Hershel and Rick is now officially over.|
Originally Posted by Chyll
I disagree with this. That was a great scene, maybe different in the comic, but well done. (assuming you mean the table/kitchen discussion)
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I strongly suspect that the next episode will have quite a few "ball-breaking" scenes between them.
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Yes that's what I meant, and yes we disagree.
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Originally Posted by Chyll
I disagree with this. That was a great scene, maybe different in the comic, but well done. (assuming you mean the table/kitchen discussion)
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- CaptainFoamerang
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I'd agree with that seeing as how they've brought every character's intelligence level down.|
Originally Posted by Furio
It was totally in keeping with Shane's character for him for handle the situation the way he did. And seeing as the episode ended before the smoke had even cleared from Rick's pistol, I'd say it's a bit premature to say there were no consequences.
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And I'm referring to how in the comics the barn zombies actually brought some chaos and death when they escaped, rather than the "fish in a barrel" setup.
- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
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Quote:
I would actually argue that the TV show, even with it's relatively limited plot focus, has filled in a number of gaps in the comic that were not exactly reasonable or well-paced. Let's just say I'm glad I didn't start reading the comic until -after- I'd seen the TV show and leave it at that.
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Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
I was saying that how fast you read is going to affect how quickly you get through those points no matter what, and having the writer already condense key points in the dialogue makes it seems all that much quicker.
And about the only thing I will say they've expanded on at this point that needed it was Maggie's perspective on the barn zombies. |
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I thought it might've been Herschel's wife and step-son that were coming out rather than Sophia.
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Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
I didn't really find it to be powerful so much as forced. That zombie Sophia would wait until all of the other zombies came out first made everything the writers were trying to do too obvious, which didn't help on top of the lingering stupidity of Shane ranting about how dangerous all the zombies in the barn are and then busting the place open right in front of everyone.
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What gaps are you referring to, specifically?
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Originally Posted by Lothic
I would actually argue that the TV show, even with it's relatively limited plot focus, has filled in a number of gaps in the comic that were not exactly reasonable or well-paced. Let's just say I'm glad I didn't start reading the comic until -after- I'd seen the TV show and leave it at that.
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- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
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Quote:
Herschels wife was the one that had her mouth/cheek blown off.|
Originally Posted by Dark One
I thought it might've been Herschel's wife and step-son that were coming out rather than Sophia.
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(per Talking Dead)
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Quote:
Yeah I was disappointed that they didn't get any consideration, what with them being the main reasons why Hershel adopted his perspective on the zombies. They really should've given him some dialogue during the barn breakout.
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Originally Posted by Dark One
I thought it might've been Herschel's wife and step-son that were coming out rather than Sophia.
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- CaptainFoamerang
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Quote:
Shrug. I thought it was a well acted and nicely scripted moment.
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Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
Yes that's what I meant, and yes we disagree.
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City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
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Quote:
In the comic they had opened the barn door with the idea that they were ready to toss the new one in. At that point the zombies took advantage of the situation and made a break for it. In the TV show Shane opened the door before Hershel and Rick even had a chance to toss the new ones in.|
Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
I'd agree with that seeing as how they've brought every character's intelligence level down.
And I'm referring to how in the comics the barn zombies actually brought some chaos and death when they escaped, rather than the "fish in a barrel" setup. |
Since they knew Shane was threatening to open the door they had a few reasonable moments to get ready for them to pour out, thus the "fish in a barrel" TV scenario. The only reason the "chaos" happened in the comic was that Hershel didn't expect them to charge and they lost control of the situation, thus no "fish in a barrel" setup.
I really don't see how these differences reflect on the "intelligence level" of the characters in either media version. *shrugs*
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Isn't this how faith is used 99% of the time? |
Originally Posted by MentalMaden
His faith is merely his excuse or crutch for denying the obvious.
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Really? Andrea firing when everyone told her not to, she couldn't she the target clearly, and had her buddies within a couple yards or so within the target when she's had no long distance shooting training? Glenn being lowered down a well to lasso a zombie when they aren't going to drink any of the water out of it anyway? Really?
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Originally Posted by Lothic
In the comic they had opened the barn door with the idea that they were ready to toss the new one in. At that point the zombies took advantage of the situation and made a break for it. In the TV show Shane opened the door before Hershel and Rick even had a chance to toss the new ones in.
Since they knew Shane was threatening to open the door they had a few reasonable moments to get ready for them to pour out, thus the "fish in a barrel" TV scenario. The only reason the "chaos" happened in the comic was that Hershel didn't expect them to charge and they lost control of the situation, thus no "fish in a barrel" setup. I really don't see how these differences reflect on the "intelligence level" of the characters in either media version. *shrugs* |
- CaptainFoamerang
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
Really? Andrea firing when everyone told her not to, she couldn't she the target clearly, and had her buddies within a couple yards or so within the target when she's had no long distance shooting training? Glenn being lowered down a well to lasso a zombie when they aren't going to drink any of the water out of it anyway? Really?
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Umm...Lothic is talking about the barn scene in the comic and the barn scene in the show and the differences between them. What Andrea and Glenn did days earlier have no bearing on the differences in the respective barn scenes.
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Quote:
The TV show better explained in a more satisfyingly dramatic way:|
Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
What gaps are you referring to, specifically?
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Rick's escape from the hospital.
Rick's encounter with Morgan and son.
Rick finding the group and their time near Atlanta.
The purpose of Shane as a dramatic foil to Rick. Shane lost his cool and got shot by Carl all in like one single page of the comic.
Carl getting shot by Otis was resolved in like just another page or two of the comic.
The zombie barn's discovery and resolution was handled in all the wink of an eye.
Basically the comic's format blows past most every opportunity the TV show has seized upon to have actual meaningful dramatic sequences worth caring about. I mean absolutely no disrespect to the writers of the comicbook but it really comes off as the best effort of the way a 12 year old might write such a story. One more time the TV show, for all it's faults, actually managed to flesh out many of the points in the comic that fairly lacking in the depth department. *shrugs*
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Right. There was no indication that we were expanding that line of discussion to some of the other dumb things other people have done on the TV show. |
Originally Posted by Furio
Umm...Lothic is talking about the barn scene in the comic and the barn scene in the show and the differences between them. What Andrea and Glenn did days earlier have no bearing on the differences in the respective barn scenes.
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And it may have been dumb for Shane to break the barn open, forcing a confrontation that way completely follows, given the way they've established the character. He's pragmatic yes, but he's also a hot-head who's been having a really really bad day.
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Quote:
I misread her last sentence.
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Originally Posted by Furio
Umm...Lothic is talking about the barn scene in the comic and the barn scene in the show and the differences between them. What Andrea and Glenn did days earlier have no bearing on the differences in the respective barn scenes.
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- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
Quote:
Probably the only one I'd agree with is Morgan and Duane.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
The TV show better explained in a more satisfyingly dramatic way:
Rick's escape from the hospital. Rick's encounter with Morgan and son. Rick finding the group and their time near Atlanta. The purpose of Shane as a dramatic foil to Rick. Shane lost his cool and got shot by Carl all in like one single page of the comic. Carl getting shot by Otis was resolved in like just another page or two of the comic. The zombie barn's discovery and resolution was handled in all the wink of an eye. Basically the comic's format blows past most every opportunity the TV show has seized upon to have actual meaningful dramatic sequences worth caring about. I mean absolutely no disrespect to the writers of the comicbook but it really comes off as the best effort of the way a 12 year old might write such a story. One more time the TV show, for all it's faults, actually managed to flesh out many of the points in the comic that fairly lacking in the depth department. *shrugs* |
Besides the ones you listed that were pretty much the same, everything else has been unnecessarily drawn out and entailing too much stupidity-induced drama.
- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
Quote:
*shrug*|
Originally Posted by MentalMaden
Herschels wife was the one that had her mouth/cheek blown off.
(per Talking Dead) |
If they have to explain it in an after-show, then the show failed in that regard. There was no indication in the show which zombie was his wife or stepson. Hence, my belief that it would've been someone special to Herschel being the last one out. I was getting ready for Herschel to run up in front of the shooters trying to "protect" the person and then possibly getting bit.
Someone could've thrown him out of the way, shot the zombie, he gets mad, grabs a gun and puts it to Rick's head.
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Perhaps our disagreement here simply stems from just how much extra useful detail the TV show has provided in critical areas of the story. I've already implied that I think there are some areas of the TV show where things were strung out too long. For instance even though I know Sophia was not lost in the comic I think the "Sophia Lost" TV arc was probably about twice as long as it needed to be.|
Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
Probably the only one I'd agree with is Morgan and Duane.
Besides the ones you listed that were pretty much the same, everything else has been unnecessarily drawn out and entailing too much stupidity-induced drama. |
On the other hand I think at least some of the "stupidity-induced drama" you refer to was actually needed to fill in the logic gaps the comicbook left behind. To me it's almost like the comicbook has been a sort of "CliffsNotes" version to the TV show, which is weird considering the TV show is supposedly based off the comic.
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The point of that scene wasn't to make the argument to members of Rick's group. They pretty much agree already. It was making a point to Herschel and the ironic twist of Sophia being among them drove the point even further. The mother didn't just cry because her daughter was shot, she was already crying because she saw her daughter was already dead.
I know a lot is said about Herschel and his faith, which obviously does play a part in his philosophy, but I see him more simply in denial. Denial for what has happened to friends and family and denial to what is going on in the rest of the world. His faith is merely his excuse or crutch for denying the obvious. There is also an irony to him being a vet, a profession that has always dealt easily with the idea of euthanasia. He's probably put down his fair share of rabid dogs in his day, but can't bring himself to realize that the people affected by the ZA are really no different: a hopeless cause. And while he can use the bible as his reasoning, I think it's really that he just can't say goodbye and make the hard choice.
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