On Travel Suppression and Heal Decay

I don't think the Devs are incapable of fixing this game in ways it needs to be, I think they don't want to and are too lazy to do it. This happens in PvE too, but they disguise it by applying band-aid fixes to certain content

Recent example: People complained about BAFs/Lambdas being the only trials people run. Obviously, this means the other trials should be reworked to be more viable to run. CoH devs decided to instead stonewall rewards on both BAFs/Lambdas to the point where after a certain point they no longer yield ANY rewards. Perfect example of a short-cut/band-aid/quick-fix that doesn't really address the actual issues with incarnate trials, which is that they are boring and repetitive.

They might be stupid, I can't really say for sure, though I see why one would think so. I think they realize they have lost credibility in what they do and don't risk doing something bad when they do substantial changes.

Either that or they are just trying to suck the last bit of money they can out of this game before it dies while spending as little money developing it as possible.

Also, I think too many people have become comfortable with their bad developing habits and blindly support anything they do to a point where they can justify continuing to do what they have been doing. The only thing that will ever teach them they are wrong about something is if a bunch of people stop paying for the game, and even when that does happen, historically they still don't do anything about it (see: i13).

They have a vision on how this game should be played and force players into it through bad mechanics that artificially limit things you can do. It's really the same platform that Jack Emmert ran on except Posi is better about not making it look that way, and Posi has also probably done more good for this game than Jack did. Jack also managed to make not 1, but 2 failed games since he left PS, although I really don't think Posi was a great replacement for him.

So you just made it up? Cool.

I think he is refering to the quotes pre 21 in interviews when asked about pvp they stated they were concentrating on "freedom" and would "look" at pvp at a future date.

Hey brainiac, the reason you can't search for "pvp" is because the term is too short. You can't search for "pve" either.

PvP is working as intended... PvP'ers on the other hand, have some work to do. When denial lasts for more than 2 years, it becomes pretty clear that a problem is coming from within. But anyways, all I can do here is offer reason and common sense… so let me catch up right quick.

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Originally Posted by _Velociteh_ I actually did indirectly address all of your questions, I basically stated that by supporting i13 you support zoners being forced into phase/hiber builds.

See what you did there... you believe that you and all others were forced into phase/hiber. That is a fact to you. I don't believe that. It was a choice. I chose to on some toons, and on others I made sure I played them well enough and smart enough to not require either.

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Originally Posted by _Velociteh_ I didn't address Teleportation because that was never an issue that people cared about back then anyways. Not many people used Teleport, or as you said in your own words, were good at it.

So here you're saying that you did indirectly address all of my questions... but not this one... because not many peeps used it 3+ years ago? So no reason to think of the implications going forward I suppose?

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Originally Posted by _Velociteh_ Good evaders thrived under pre-i13 mechanics, as did smart offensive players. Post-i13, those people really can't utilize their ability as long as those abilities don't really make a big difference. TS/HD manages to destroy the effectiveness of good evasion or smart offense.

LOL If it doesn't work anymore then it's not good (enough). What you are saying is that Once upon a time a certain level of skill worked but now it doesn't and that the same skill level is still considered good? HaHaHahaha! What world are you living in? TS/HD manages to destroy the effectiveness of Bad evasion and Poor offense. Good evasion and Smart offense is the kind that works isn't it? There are people capable of both under the current system. It's becoming glaringly obvious however that many of them are not in this thread.

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Originally Posted by _Velociteh_ No, this game is not incredibly difficult, yet people like you continue to support the homogenization of skill levels so that the bad players can keep up with the good players even though that doesn't really make any sense.

You're right. That doesn't make any sense. It seems that way to many that were good Pre-I13 continued to PvP the same way after I13... instead of actually getting better. So bad players being capable of the same now make the good players of old look... just as bad. They then want to blame this outcome on the system instead of their selves. Go figure. For what it's worth I tried to warn you guys this would happen.

Changes to the game continue to trickle down into our little PvP world, but without people within this community willing to step up, and acknowledge them, all there is to do is repeat the same tired old excuses for being subpar in a zone under TS/HD conditions. There used to be a time when the "Good" were separated from the "Bad" because they could achieve the same results as others without needing the same tools to do the job. A time when "making XX/YY work" was more impressive than simply going with XX/YY because it was known to work. There are no PvP guides anymore... For example not one of the people in this thread could make a guide on how to make a Blaster secondary besides /EM or /Dev actually work. (but everyone is praised for believing that no other blaster secondary can work.) There are no events that encourage PvP in a zone.. (or any other guide for that matter besides a MIDS build which doesn't count lol) No leagues that encourage arena PvP below level 50, or any that has a different set of rules, or one that calls specifically for SO builds etc...

After I13 it's like we were left only with a copy of a copy in terms of what one considers "skilled" and "good" players. They certainly don’t make’em like they used to, and as I mentioned earlier, I understand the current system as well as anyone in this thread, and I've been around long enough to know exactly what has happened prior to and after I13 released years ago.

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Originally Posted by _Velociteh_ Also, playstyle is influenced MOST by game mechanics, and I think that's what you are failing to understand. People emphasize heavy amounts of damage because it's what works best in PvP. It's always kind of been that way, but since squishies don't benefit from buffs other than damage/tohit buffs anymore, it eliminates the need for most buffers. That's why Emps are the only real support you see in 8v8 anymore. Disruption is limited to a few specific setups, in terms of equal effectiveness. Even then, disruption is, for the most part, very simple. It really doesn't vary much. The reason why damage spam is the most popular/most effective method of killing things in a zone is because all you have to do to keep something TS'd is to attack it, so people just spam attacks to make sure the target can't evade, which is why phase/hiber are the only truly viable methods of avoiding spikes in zone PvP.

Ok, let me point this out real quick because others have started to use this same train of thought (aka excuse for a lack of skill). When PvP started in this game there was no Villains, no IOs, and obviously no Incarnates. If you wanted to use damage as a main means to defeat your foe you used a Blaster or you used a Scrapper. Otherwise you used your primary function whether it be buff, debuff, control, or Defense/Resistance as a means to overcome your opponenent’s damage ouput… eventually. The performance of the damage dealers, and the boasting of those who chose to go that route lead to the popularity of damage dealing ATs, not the mechanics of the PvP system. Those who wanted more of a challenge and/or grew tired of the easy mode became skilled at using the primary function of non-damage dealers to achieve what most would have found too difficult to do. You want me to believe that currently one should not even attempt to step outside or above the mold and do without… that one can be skilled simply by getting a kill and using an AT designed and specc’ed to do damage to do so. You’d have myself and others accept that all non damage dealing ATs and their contributions to battle are useless if not for healing?

“Keeping TS from getting you killed” should have been the title to a PvP guide written long ago. Surely I’m not the only one who uses a debuff toggle to affect a group of NPCs and cause aggro on the toggle user… I cannot be the only person who uses a jetpack to create distance and avoid attacks or knows how to use a corner of a building to cancel Line of Sight. “Keeping TS from getting you killed” should have been the title to a PvP guide written long ago… but it seems no one here ever figured it out enough to share. So the complaining continues. Why was this such a simple mechanic for me to overcome? “TS happens when I do X,Y, and Z…” “I will try not to do X,Y and Z as much during combat.” I had to think more, and try harder to achieve the same results as before… and I liked that about the change. If Simple =! Better… then I must ask you why you choose to PvP so simply? Why do you consider yourself skilled for doing so?

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Originally Posted by _Velociteh_ Don't get me wrong, pre-i13 PvP was pretty broken, but at least it made sense. Most toons played different roles that were often more important than just damage. Most of those roles have been rendered useless because of i13 mechanics. It's not just TS/HD that do this, but they do happen to dumb down what little skill is left in PvPing in this game. I guess if you enjoy a game where the scope of viable winning tactics and builds is very small and unvaried, than this system is fine for you. For most of us, we are tired of it, and really miss how the old system at least had some variety, despite that it was pretty broken.' You are welcome to your opinion that post-i13 is more fun for you, that's fine. You are disputing what are actually facts and claiming that they are based on opinion. You are arguing with people that know the mechanics of PvP very well, and understand why i13 and beyond limits what is viable vs. pre-i13. Quite frankly, it's very justifiable to say that you are wrong in a lot of your statements, not just from a standpoint of opinion, but from a standpoint of logic, experience, and more or less, facts. Anyways, I promised myself that I was done with this discussion, but I want to see if that is an elaborate enough explanation of the positions I stand with, and most PvPers stand with in some manner. I probably forgot to touch on why HD is bad, but I think that has been touched on as much as TS, and would probably require me to write another 3 paragraphs that would really just restate what everyone else has been saying against HD but in such a way that Dahjee might be able to understand because he's kind of dumb.

Nice… but here’s the thing.
You see if I’m happy with the current system and you are not. There is absolutely no reason for me to listen or try to understand what you have to say on the matter. The book of common sense says however, that if you are unhappy with the system and come across someone who isn’t… then you should take the time to figure out why they are content, if you yourself wish to feel the same as they do. I'm sharing my veiwpoint to help you get to where I am you see.

One of the biggest contradictions you all spew is how in one breath you can say that certain roles, certain builds, and certain buffs are rendered useless under the current system, and in the next breath say that tactics and strategies are rendered useless as well. There is always a way to make things work. However when you take away the people that like to figure those things out you’re left with people like you… who could never consider the possibility of overcoming the challenges that TS and HD obviously impose on you.

Moving on to the next…

I would fully support reverting all PvP changes to pre issue 13. Beyond that, PvP is dead to me.

lol

Pre-i13 PvP wasn't exactly perfect either... just saying.

Dahjee-

I have read over most (not all) of your comments about TS/HD, and if we can be honest- the reason that TS/HD even got placed in the game was because people were complaining that that they couldn't get kills in PvP zones. It should be noted that these players who voiced those concerns may not have been the majority of pvpers (good or bad) just the most vocal. So the devs looked into what would give the zones 'more kills'.

So when you hear people saying TS/HD is pvp on training wheels its because it really did hinder people ability to play fast paced (team style) pvp. Now pretty much the side with the most people is winning where as back before TS/HD you could have a small group of well coordinated pvpers run a zone against a group of people twice their size (numbers not weight).

I will agree with you that removal of TS/HD without looking at other aspects of pvp 2.0 would/could cause issues. TS can burn in hades, it can go and I don't think anyone would have an issue at all. If your melee and you can't catch a running character then you need to get some webnades and get on the treadmill. HD however might be an issue if they just remove it without looking at inherent resists. Defenders with a self heal and high inherent resists would be pretty hard to kill without HD and now with their new +damage based on team size its pretty easy to make an offender.

You can't really just roll back HD+inherent resists without looking at the new power damage modifiers.

Maybe im an optimist but I do think the Devs want to try to fix PvP but honestly I think they maybe overwhelmed at what it would take resource-wise to fix it (or at least to make it better).

I would suggest- removing TS, its an easy fix and while you will have some people yelling and screaming, it is my opinion that the majority of pvpers would support this.

Removing HD- maybe- there maybe issues with this. Perhaps- not decaying someone's heal but decaying their resistance when they heal. That way people can't grief by healing someone into HD when they are in zone. It would make 'healers' targeted more because they would have lower resistances but it might work.

The devs are so stupid and lazy that they have created a game that thousands of people send them money every month. Some of the players have been doing that for seven years. I'll take their stupid and lazy over the geniuses in this thread any day.

I agree with Thorizdin. I don't think that they are incapable of changing PvP, they just don't make the time to do so. And they don't make the time to do so because they would rather make Titan Weapons instead. They make new powersets because they believe more players like new powersets than they would like changes to PvP. And you know what? I bet that they are right.

Don't get me wrong, I hate the I13 changes. I've almost completely stopped PvPing since then. But calling the devs stupid and lazy is wrong. It's also a terrible tactic to convince them to make any change.

I think it's irresponsible of them to implement something in to their game and then leave it to wither and die. It's only propped up by those of us willing to work with what there is. There should still be "some" attention given to it. Perhaps not tons of development time, but some would be nice. And most the things we're asking for can't possibly take scads and mountains of effort.

Ahh, Dahjee. Dahjee Dahjee Dahjee. Dahjee is content because he's ignorant and simply doesn't know any better. I look at him like a dog that doesn't mind that his owners never scoop the backyard. I mean if you leave the mess there long enough you can play with it! And that's fun, right?