On Travel Suppression and Heal Decay
By
Antigonus,
Posted on: 2011-10-13 12:12 in Everything about PvP
Quote:
If you wouldn't have stopped, you would have noted the hyperbole.
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Originally Posted by AresSupreme
*Stops reading there*
Counterproductive |
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
Quote:
Wrong literary device.
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Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea
If you wouldn't have stopped, you would have noted the hyperbole.
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Grammar PvP?
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
Quote:
PvPers are people too, Fleas are not people, however.
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Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea
Grammar PvP?
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@TheKatalyst
My **** is bleeding.
Oh yeah?
SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
I still find it funny that people think removing TS and HD would be like waving some magical F*ing wand. First off it would only help for zone play; we can remove TS and HD in arena. You'd still have the issue of DR, shields, mez, lack of any real speed cap,elude, etc, etc.
The truth is if pvp mechanics were balanced around a team based system of cooperative play; most of you would be frothing at the mouth for the devs to bring back this fiteclubbers paradise system where damage is king.
But keep screaming to have HD and TS removed. I'm sure the devs will eventually read and care. d;D
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That's the whole point in case you didn't know, to remove them from zones. People are asking for that because it's the simplest change, they can literally flip a switch to change it.|
Originally Posted by Tokyo
I still find it funny that people think removing TS and HD would be like waving some magical F*ing wand. First off it would only help for zone play; we can remove TS and HD in arena.
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You can't really change most of the other stuff without changing the entire system.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
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I'm not going to hold my breath or keep asking the devs what they already know most want. |
Originally Posted by Fiery-Enforcer
That's the whole point in case you didn't know, to remove them from zones. People are asking for that because it's the simplest change, they can literally flip a switch to change it.
You can't really change most of the other stuff without changing the entire system. |
It's stickied 4 times for christ sakes.
Quote:
Melee vs ranged wasnt really a problem back then.. At least not from what I had seen.|
Originally Posted by Syndace
No one is stupid or lazy. The devs know exactly what is going on. Bionic_Flea is right though. It's not a very good tactic to complain and call them names then request changes...
The 'new' post i13 devs are paying attention but the upper management is thinking business when it comes to a 7-8 year old game. How do you generate income and keep people paying? How has it worked in the past? Well.. new content/powersets is a no brainier. The new VIP system and paragon points was an incredibly smart move as well. The limit of staff and time as well as small pvp community prevent us from seeing the extensive pvp changes we have requested. Not only that.... "jobs.businessweek.com/a/all-jobs/list/q-paragon+studios Jobs 1 - 7 of 7 Paragon Studios is seeking a talented Sr. Server Engineer to contribute to the development of server systems on an exciting new project" So I can see where a new project would suck a lot of time and man power. I am surprised however. Something as simple as fixing mez duration on some powers that have broken pvp rules shouldn't be sat on for so long. The poison control fix was a good step... TS and HD I can see being debated amongst the dev staff.... if it would help would you guys want to host an event on the test server for zone pvp without TS and HD to see how it goes? If the pvp community can participate and give feedback other than "lol devs omg pvp derp derp" would you (the devs) be willing? I'd be interested to see how it settles the melee versus ranged debate. I don't think melee will have much of an issue now that there are KM scrappers. |
It would pretty much be the same as it is now, except a few more sets would be viable.
Though if people really wanted to test this..go to the arena...where you have the option to turn this off..
I doubt it would get fixed in Zone, simply because the devs dont care.
Death only affects the weak. So Toughen up.
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We also didn't have DR or the Mez fix or this annoying as hell speed cap(lackof) that renders slows meaningless or resist vs everything...
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Originally Posted by info
Melee vs ranged wasnt really a problem back then.. At least not from what I had seen.
It would pretty much be the same as it is now, except a few more sets would be viable. Though if people really wanted to test this..go to the arena...where you have the option to turn this off.. I doubt it would get fixed in Zone, simply because the devs dont care. |
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Me neither, I'm just saying.
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Originally Posted by Tokyo
I'm not going to hold my breath or keep asking the devs what they already know most want.
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[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
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Oh boy, responding to Yellow's troll post.. herewego|
Originally Posted by Tokyo
I still find it funny that people think removing TS and HD would be like waving some magical F*ing wand. First off it would only help for zone play; we can remove TS and HD in arena. You'd still have the issue of DR, shields, mez, lack of any real speed cap,elude, etc, etc.
The truth is if pvp mechanics were balanced around a team based system of cooperative play; most of you would be frothing at the mouth for the devs to bring back this fiteclubbers paradise system where damage is king. But keep screaming to have HD and TS removed. I'm sure the devs will eventually read and care. d;D |
Getting HD and TS removed from zone is the exact point of this entire thread, but you already knew that. We ask for this in particular because it is the easiest form of "fix" the devs could possibly implement. Like it has been said, it's essentially the flip of a switch. Of course all the other problems are still there, but they would require a development team who had even the slightest clue how to balance PvP to be worked on. We don't have that dev team. I also know that the devs are not interested in fixing PvP; yet, this thread is still appropriate because it is a direct response to a question posed by our community rep.
Now that comment about team-based cooperative play: That is exactly what I (and many of the PvP community, past, present, and potential) want out of this game. That kind of system makes perfect send for an MMOs PvP.... this is a class based game after all. Many who try to/do play this game competitively, as I do, understand how very, very well that type of game-play would fit this game if done properly. At worst, the current terrible (fiteklub) mechanics could be left as options in arena, but I think that a balance could definitely be found if it were actually sought by competent individuals.
Quote:
Hemm, I don't agree with you. We could remove the mez rule tomorrow HD/TS roll back DR, reset speed cap and resist to what it was pre-i13 and people would be raging about the holds/slows/and how lolsquishie their blasters are. |
Originally Posted by hemmingway3
Now that comment about team-based cooperative play: That is exactly what I (and many of the PvP community, past, present, and potential) want out of this game. That kind of system makes perfect send for an MMOs PvP.... this is a class based game after all. Many who try to/do play this game competitively, as I do, understand how very, very well that type of game-play would fit this game if done properly. At worst, the current terrible (fiteklub) mechanics could be left as options in arena, but I think that a balance could definitely be found if it were actually sought by competent individuals. |
You take away HD and TS and it's still (superior damage > everything else) because DR still hinders buffs, debuffs recharge and heals. There's no balance unless the balance you are referring to is superior damage==superior damage.
I see more fiteclubbers dueling in arena on freedom than cooperative pvp. People enjoy this damage spam fiteclub style pvp.
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So...|
Originally Posted by hemmingway3
We ask for this in particular because it is the easiest form of "fix" the devs could possibly implement. Like it has been said, it's essentially the flip of a switch. Of course all the other problems are still there...
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Basically you're asking for something just to ask... since you know full well that what you ask for won't solve the problems with PvP?
Personally, I'm happy the Devs have better sense than to go around "flippin switches" just because they can. I'm guessing more thought is being put into the matter than what seems to have been put into the opinions in this thread.
Believe it or not... doing what's easiest and doing what's best are not always the same thing. Forgive me but I come across way too many PvP'ers in this game that don't realize this.
"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
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Your going to out grow that bridge you live under. You may have to find a bigger bridge.
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Originally Posted by Dahjee
So...
Basically you're asking for something just to ask... since you know full well that what you ask for won't solve the problems with PvP? Personally, I'm happy the Devs have better sense than to go around "flippin switches" just because they can. I'm guessing more thought is being put into the matter than what seems to have been put into the opinions in this thread. Believe it or not... doing what's easiest and doing what's best are not always the same thing. Forgive me but I come across way too many PvP'ers in this game that don't realize this. |
Quote:
Oh it's definitely true, removing TS and HD would by no means balance PvP, but it would at least allow people to employ tactics aside from spam damage as fast as you can so they stay in TS.|
Originally Posted by Tokyo
Hemm, I don't agree with you. We could remove the mez rule tomorrow HD/TS roll back DR, reset speed cap and resist to what it was pre-i13 and people would be raging about the holds/slows/and how lolsquishie their blasters are.
You take away HD and TS and it's still (superior damage > everything else) because DR still hinders buffs, debuffs recharge and heals. There's no balance unless the balance you are referring to is superior damage==superior damage. I see more fiteclubbers dueling in arena on freedom than cooperative pvp. People enjoy this damage spam fiteclub style pvp. |
I don't think that this thread is pointless, this question hasn't been brought up recently in this manner on the forums for a long time. Unfortunately it seems like people have forgotten the difference between TS on and TS off, I would be willing to budge on the HD issue because you would definitely have people exploiting the /ah command and stuff like that for greens, although with auto hit mez's and stuff I don't think that would be as big a deal as some people think. I still think at the very least HD needs to be reworked in zone so that outside heals take a much smaller hit from it than inspirations and self heals.
Also, Dahjee, that is true, but in this case I am pretty much 100% convinced that removing TS/HD or at least TS would have an overall positive result, and my evidence is pre-i13 as well as generally what people say about it when I talk to them, both arena and quite a few zone PvPers. Part of the reason so many people have turned to arena PvP over zone PvP is we find it more fun. I turned to arena because zone became very boring, and overly-simplistic, and I can tell you for a fact that that is the case with many post-i13 arena PvPers.
It sounds like you are promoting the devs doing absolutely nothing to the current system which is pretty absurd. If that is not what you are arguing than I would at least like to hear what you think should be done instead.
If you are just arguing the devs don't change anything and leave the system as it is then you are just promoting the developer's continuing to be really bad at developing this game.
@TheKatalyst
My **** is bleeding.
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And this is why Dahjee and I don't share bridges. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see TS and HD removed from zone. However, my concern is that "IF" and that's a very big if; the developers ever decide to revisit pvp mechanics, it would most likely be once more. I would much prefer the developers use that time to repair pvp than simply remove TS and HD.
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Originally Posted by _Velociteh_
It sounds like you are promoting the devs doing absolutely nothing to the current system which is pretty absurd. If that is not what you are arguing than I would at least like to hear what you think should be done instead.
If you are just arguing the devs don't change anything and leave the system as it is then you are just promoting the developer's continuing to be really bad at developing this game. |
Quote:
Awwww. How cute!
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Originally Posted by Dahjee
So...
Basically you're asking for something just to ask... since you know full well that what you ask for won't solve the problems with PvP? Personally, I'm happy the Devs have better sense than to go around "flippin switches" just because they can. I'm guessing more thought is being put into the matter than what seems to have been put into the opinions in this thread. Believe it or not... doing what's easiest and doing what's best are not always the same thing. Forgive me but I come across way too many PvP'ers in this game that don't realize this. |
"His Imperial Majesty's Minister of Restraints and Leather" -LHF
Two naughty acronym teams / Ascension / Convenient / Artic and the Chillz / Fap / Other teams I can't remember (sorry.. mind is goin')
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If PvP were to be revisited in a more critical way, than yes I would advocate for more than just TS/HD being removed but I kind of doubt that they would be willing to do much more than that.|
Originally Posted by Tokyo
And this is why Dahjee and I don't share bridges. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see TS and HD removed from zone. However, my concern is that "IF" and that's a very big if; the developers ever decide to revisit pvp mechanics, it would most likely be once more. I would much prefer the developers use that time to repair pvp than simply remove TS and HD.
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If they are planning to take a look at PvP on a larger scale, then we can cross that bridge when we get to it, hopefully we will know in advance. Until then I think TS/HD's removal would be a good first step.
@TheKatalyst
My **** is bleeding.
Although, even expecting them to remove TS/HD is kind of a longshot at this point, so I'm not holding my breath or anything.
@TheKatalyst
My **** is bleeding.
If by some miracle they did decide to do some fixes to PvP I would also like to see the ability for rogues/vigilantes to access both the hero and villain sides of PvP zones... It would help solve some of the imbalance of numbers in Hero vs. Villain zones, although I'm guessing that would be harder to implement then just removing TS/HD.
@TheKatalyst
My **** is bleeding.
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If the devs were ever to revisit pvp it would be to take a more critical look at pvp mechanics. Removing TS/HD would be sugar coating a turd...|
Originally Posted by The Katalyst
If by some miracle they did decide to do some fixes to PvP I would also like to see the ability for rogues/vigilantes to access both the hero and villain sides of PvP zones... It would help solve some of the imbalance of numbers in Hero vs. Villain zones, although I'm guessing that would be harder to implement then just removing TS/HD.
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Which upon consideration is exactly what the development team is best known for...
Since all we get (the pvp community) is turds, some sugar would be nice... even if we still get turds.
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I thought this thread died like a week ago. |
Originally Posted by hemmingway3
Since all we get (the pvp community) is turds, some sugar would be nice... even if we still get turds.
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I don't think we even get turds half the time. We get bits and pieces of the developers sharts, and even that doesn't happen much.
@TheKatalyst
My **** is bleeding.
No one is stupid or lazy. The devs know exactly what is going on. Bionic_Flea is right though. It's not a very good tactic to complain and call them names then request changes...
The 'new' post i13 devs are paying attention but the upper management is thinking business when it comes to a 7-8 year old game. How do you generate income and keep people paying? How has it worked in the past? Well.. new content/powersets is a no brainier. The new VIP system and paragon points was an incredibly smart move as well. The limit of staff and time as well as small pvp community prevent us from seeing the extensive pvp changes we have requested. Not only that....
"jobs.businessweek.com/a/all-jobs/list/q-paragon+studios
Jobs 1 - 7 of 7 – Paragon Studios is seeking a talented Sr. Server Engineer to contribute to the development of server systems on an exciting new project"
So I can see where a new project would suck a lot of time and man power. I am surprised however. Something as simple as fixing mez duration on some powers that have broken pvp rules shouldn't be sat on for so long. The poison control fix was a good step...
TS and HD I can see being debated amongst the dev staff.... if it would help would you guys want to host an event on the test server for zone pvp without TS and HD to see how it goes? If the pvp community can participate and give feedback other than "lol devs omg pvp derp derp" would you (the devs) be willing? I'd be interested to see how it settles the melee versus ranged debate. I don't think melee will have much of an issue now that there are KM scrappers.