Premium Players get less than expected!
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2011-09-24 05:58 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Of course, there is always the FUTURE content that Premiums will never get (I suppose), as that should be.
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Originally Posted by Prodiguy
You bought Going Rogue, so you have access to all things DIRECTLY RELATED to Going Rogue itself- Allignment, Praetoria, the power sets, the zones. Incarnates are not related to Going Rogue in that way, the closest you could have had was a sneak peak at FUTURE content, which the Alpha Slot was intended to be. That was also removed before the launch of the game and was never stated as 100% going to happen. Alpha Slot is not part of Going Rogue.
And on the same coin, it never should be. There'd be no point to being a VIP if you could have everything VIPs do on a Premium account. Premium is not intended for you to drop from VIP and have the same gameplay. It's intended for you to be able to play, at a loss, without needing to pay. You will never get the same level of gameplay and ALL the functions that VIPs do. The Incarnate system is VIP only. That is a benefit of paying the fee. |
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i did pre purchase , march 2,2010 i was looking at my emails to see if i could find anything worthwhile., and i never saw that advertised, only discussed informally. if someone can bring up the store page, cool, but until then, he seems to be the only one who recalls seeing it specifically spelled out that incarnates were a part of gr. I await someone posting it.
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Originally Posted by Aquila_NA
If he SAYS he is quoting the STORE then he is NOT referring to an informal discussion.
Well, you know, the store page is not up any longer, so a cached version or a printout is the only way anyone can prove that it advertised Incarnates. I'm just saying that it is a place to start, for those who have any kind of legitimate claim to having bought Incarnate access (Alpha). |
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Yes I did. I bought the Pre-Purchase (I have the 6th anniversary badges from May 2010 to prove that on my DS and DP characters) and I also bought the Gamestop Pre-Order for the unique Pre-Order Perks (5 Dmg IO enhancements that can be used from level 1-20 and are non transferable)|
Originally Posted by Aquila_NA
I didn't pre-purchase, so didn't read the contents of the store description for the pre-purchase. Did you? CactusBrawler says that he DID.
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I also paid attention to the constant discussions/announcements from the devs before GR launched and was well aware that the Alpha Slot was pulled before GR was launched and had ample opportunity to cancel my pre-order if I so desired.
Cancelling the Pre-purchase wasn't an option because that only promised early access to DS and DP.
"...sneak peak at the Incarnate System..."
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http://na.cityofheroes.com/en/news/n...ase_now_av.php|
Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
i did pre purchase , march 2,2010 i was looking at my emails to see if i could find anything worthwhile., and i never saw that advertised, only discussed informally. if someone can bring up the store page, cool, but until then, he seems to be the only one who recalls seeing it specifically spelled out that incarnates were a part of gr. I await someone posting it.
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http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...95&postcount=1
http://goingrogue.eu.cityofheroes.co...b/prepurchase/
http://www.gamezone.com/news/item/pa...rchase_program
http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/81655
Here's what I could find, and I see no mentioned of anyone claiming Alpha slots or Incarnates being a part of the pre-purchase.
cool. as i said, i think part of the complaint is that things are different now than they were, conditional statements exist now that weren't specified because the options didnt exist, otherwise, it would have been clarified. we were aware that you needed gr to play incarnate stuff, we knew that we had to pay an subscription, nobody had to ask what happened if you stopped paying the sub because we knew, you didnt play anymore. now we got the increase in capacity that we can stop paying and still play. new sets of conditional phrases exist now that didn't before...ya know what, if you can sub, just sub, it works out better.
At pax Positron said that the first level of the incarnate system would be included with Going Rogue, it wasn't till 7-12-2010 that they said it had been removed, the expansion had been available to pre-purchase much longer than that.
I'm hunting to see if I can find any archived advertisments from before that announcement.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
Here's a data point to add:
Internet Archive Going Rogue page
No mention of the Incarnate system. Praetoria, alignment system, new starting experience, new powersets new costume sets, new badges, addition to the Mission Architect system, two characters slots all made the list, but no Incarnate system.
We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)
yeah that is i have said a few times, that is not an advertisement, that is a discussion with fans about planned features. there is a different standard for actual advertisements(though things like base raids and the cop were actually advertised and removed).
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The NCstore description of Going Rogue did not have any mention of the Incarnate System.|
Originally Posted by Aquila_NA
I wish that the GR Pre-Order site was available, cached, or something. I'm interested in seeing what the description was for folks who bought before it was released. If the Store's product description made any reference to Incarnates there MIGHT be an argument. That is what they bought (or didn't buy). When the transaction was complete, THAT part of the deal is done. If it SAID that it included Incarnate content but did NOT then they should have said/done something about it then and there, to include uninstalling it, having the code canceled and requesting a refund. If it did not say anything about Incarnates then it's really a case of Caveat Emptor.
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Originally Posted by macskull
Also, if you previously bought GR and aren't a VIP you no longer have access to Demon Summoning or Dual Pistols. With the incarnate system there's at least the argument that it wasn't technically part of GR, but those powersets were. That, I think, is a little ridiculous.
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Just to be absolutely clear:
If you find a retail copy of Going Rogue and apply it to your account, you will get the following:
- ZERO FREE CHARACTER SLOTS (The retail code had to be applied before Sept 13 to qualify for the free slots.)
- NO ACCESS to the INCARNATE SYSTEM (No, it was not a part of Going Rogue. It is only open to subscribers.)
- One month of VIP access.
- Create a Praetorian Character
- Demon Summoning
- Dual Pistols
- Electric Control
- Going Rogue : Drink Enriche
- Going Rogue : Loyalist Protest
- Going Rogue : Praetorian Salute
- Going Rogue : Resistance Protest
- Going Rogue Alignment System
- GR CC Item Pack - Alpha Aura
- GR CC Item Pack - Alpha Belt
- GR CC Item Pack - Alpha Boots
- GR CC Item Pack - Alpha Chest
- GR CC Item Pack - Alpha Gloves
- GR CC Item Pack - Alpha Hat
- GR CC Item Pack - Alpha Head Detail 1
- GR CC Item Pack - Alpha Head Detail 2
- GR CC Item Pack - Alpha Pants
- GR CC Item Pack - Alpha Pattern
- GR CC Item Pack - Alpha Shoulders
- GR CC Item Pack - Heroic Stances
- GR CC Item Pack - Omega Aura
- GR CC Item Pack - Omega Boots
- GR CC Item Pack - Omega Chest
- GR CC Item Pack - Omega Gloves
- GR CC Item Pack - Omega Hat
- GR CC Item Pack - Omega Head Detail 2
- GR CC Item Pack - Omega Head Texture
- GR CC Item Pack - Omega Pants
- GR CC Item Pack - Omega Shoulders
- GR CC Item Pack - Villainous Stances
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Clockwork Faces: Female
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Clockwork Faces: Female
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Clockwork Faces: Female
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Clockwork Faces: Male
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Clockwork Faces: Male
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Clockwork Faces: Male
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Clockwork Faces: Male
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Clockwork Faces: Male
- GR Exp Costumes - Clockwork Arms
- GR Exp Costumes - Clockwork Boots
- GR Exp Costumes - Clockwork Chest
- GR Exp Costumes - Clockwork Chest Detail
- GR Exp Costumes - Clockwork Gloves
- GR Exp Costumes - Clockwork Gloves
- GR Exp Costumes - Clockwork Pants
- GR Exp Costumes - Clockwork Pants
- GR Exp Costumes - Clockwork Shoulders
- GR Exp Costumes - Clockwork Shoulders
- GR Exp Costumes - Overguard Boots
- GR Exp Costumes - Overguard Chest
- GR Exp Costumes - Overguard Gloves
- GR Exp Costumes - Overguard Leggings
- GR Exp Costumes - Overguard Shoulders
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Clockwork Faces: Female
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Clockwork Faces: Female
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Clockwork Faces: Female
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Clockwork Faces: Female
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Clockwork Faces: Huge
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Clockwork Faces: Huge
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Clockwork Faces: Huge
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Clockwork Faces: Huge
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Clockwork Faces: Huge
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Clockwork Faces: Huge
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Clockwork Faces: Male
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Police Belt
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Police Boots
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Police Chest Detail
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Police Gloves
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Police Helmet
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Police Pants
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Police Shoulders
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Police Visor
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Resistance Beard
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Resistance Belt
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Resistance Boots
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Resistance Chest Detail
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Resistance Female Hair (Resistance 1)
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Resistance Female Hair (Resistance 2)
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Resistance Gloves
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Resistance Goggle Pack
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Resistance Goggle Pack
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Resistance Mohawk
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Resistance Pants
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Resistance Shoulders Pack
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Resistance Shoulders Pack
- GR Exp Costumes - Sport Boots
- GR Exp Costumes - Sport Gloves
- GR Exp Costumes - Sport Shoulders
- Kinetic Melee
- Shadowy Presence Power
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Originally Posted by TonyV
Wow, 10 pages folks? Really?
Really? Stop feeding the trolls, please! |
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Originally Posted by TonyV
Quick addendum: Now you know why Marketing is always so tight-lipped and why Black Pebble kills a puppy every time Positron or Zwillinger positively asserts anything.
For god's sake, people, stop this madness and THINK OF THE PUPPIES!!! |
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Oh, look at that.
[EDIT: Changed image to take up less screen space.]  |
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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Can you get that to go back to 2010?|
Originally Posted by TonyV
Here's a data point to add:
Internet Archive Going Rogue page No mention of the Incarnate system. Praetoria, alignment system, new starting experience, new powersets new costume sets, new badges, addition to the Mission Architect system, two characters slots all made the list, but no Incarnate system. |
It only seems to do it for 7-feb-2011
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
Found posts with quotes from devs, trying to find the dev quotes.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...8&postcount=67
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...5&postcount=68
Woah, that thread derails into a talk about DC, shame that was a not so good mmo.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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Unless, of course, you want full access to everything in the game.|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
So? The same can be said of the Original CoH, CoV, or any retail version of the game (no matter where it was purchased from: NCstore, a retail store, or Steam). As of Tuesday the need for a subscription is non-existent.
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They may have removed having a subscription as a requirement for most of the game's content, but not all of it.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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You do realize, that by saying that being compared to GG is a personal insult, you are also saying there is something wrong with her, and therefore offering her a personal insult? If there had been some kind of smile on it, it would have come across as a joke, but since there isn't, you apparently are serious about it, and therefore you are being insulting. Since you seem to feel strongly about personal insults, maybe you should apologize?
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Originally Posted by Aneko
Personal insults are not allowed.
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Justice Blues, Tech/Tank, Inv/SS
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Fighting The Future Trilogy
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No, but here are a few more sources:|
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Can you get that to go back to 2010?
It only seems to do it for 7-feb-2011 |
Amazon.com page for Going Rogue
Gamestop page for Going Rogue
Edit:
Of course, I don't know why I'm even putting this out there. It seems to me that there is compelling evidence that the Incarnate System is not part of the marketing of Going Rogue. Was it ever a part of the marketing? Well, it's damn near impossible to prove a negative assertion like that, so really, the onus is on you to prove the positive assertion that it was. The ball is in your court to find evidence now, not us.
Also, this whole argument is silly, based upon the initial premise that the "if you've paid for it, you'll still have access to it" rule-of-thumb was, in fact, some sort of legal guarantee. It wasn't. It was exactly that--a rule-of-thumb that mostly holds true. It's really disgusting to me that, even if the Incarnate System were part of Going Rogue (which, for the record, I'm not stipulating), people are taking one exception to the rule out of a hundred and using that one thing to say that premium players "got screwed."
I'm sorry, but that's stupid. Premium players get to play the game for free and get access to damn near everything in it. Regardless of any one or two things in the game that they don't get access to, to say that they're getting "screwed" is the height of entitlement and arrogance.
We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)
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Can we still not get on the same page? I'm not talking about what was released OR what your box says. I'm talking about pre-orders/pre-purchases and whatever was in the product description AT THAT TIME, when people could have potentially bought a product that was described as being different from the final product.
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
The NCstore description of Going Rogue did not have any mention of the Incarnate System.
-other stuff you said If you find a retail copy of Going Rogue and apply it to your account, you will get the following: -and still more that, while all true, was not what I was talking about |
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Heh, quotes don't help either. All that matters (as far as I'm concerned) is the product description on the page you spent your money on.
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Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Found posts with quotes from devs, trying to find the dev quotes.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...8&postcount=67 http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...5&postcount=68 Woah, that thread derails into a talk about DC, shame that was a not so good mmo. |
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I wasn't talking about full access. I was talking about Mission Architect Access for those that bought the Architect Edition, which Oedipus_Tex was trying to demonstrate that players shouldn't get access to the AE for purchasing the AE edition.
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Originally Posted by Schismatrix
Unless, of course, you want full access to everything in the game.
They may have removed having a subscription as a requirement for most of the game's content, but not all of it. |
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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You're trying to find the original Posi quote that is used in both those posts?
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Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Found posts with quotes from devs, trying to find the dev quotes.
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Why is this even an issue? Even IF Incarnates were part of GR, can anyone say that they bought it with the expectation that they will still have access to Incarnates after they stopped paying the subscription?
Premium players are screwed? How so? Before Freedom if you stopped paying your monthly subscription you lost all access to the game. With Freedom you can continue to play. Granted you will have restrictions placed on your account, but if you are expecting to experience the game as you did before as a paying subscriber you are just kidding yourself.
I have told several of my friends who used to play about the changes comming with Freedom. Some will come back to check it out, and some don't care for the restrictions to a Premium account. That's ok. They weren't playing/paying before Freedom and they won't after. As for those who do come back, they will either play for free under the limitations of the account restrictions, or they will resubscribe. It's a no-lose situation for NCSoft.
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The pre-orders/pre-purchases at the time had the EXACT SAME WORDING. So unless you (or anyone else) can show ANY proof what so ever to refute the posts and archived store, it is time to move on from this point.|
Originally Posted by Aquila_NA
Can we still not get on the same page? I'm not talking about what was released OR what your box says. I'm talking about pre-orders/pre-purchases and whatever was in the product description AT THAT TIME, when people could have potentially bought a product that was described as being different from the final product.
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The proof that it wasn't included has been shown, if you want to deny it, then you have to provide proof that it was included.
Good luck with that.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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The second war witch one would be nice. The Posi one is at the start of the thread linked to.|
Originally Posted by warden_de_dios
You're trying to find the original Posi quote that is used in both those posts?
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Anyone know how to get the EU NCsoft store, from March 2010?
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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All true. Like I said many pages ago, I'M not complaining. Nor am I in any way under the impression that I am not getting something that I should be. The discussion had turned into whether or not Incarnates were something that people paid for when they purchased Going Rogue. All I'm doing at this point is exploring whether anyone should have believed that it was. (pre-purchase and/or pre-order, whichever)
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Originally Posted by _ACFU_
Why is this even an issue? Even IF Incarnates were part of GR, can anyone say that they bought it with the expectation that they will still have access to Incarnates after they stopped paying the subscription?
Premium players are screwed? How so? Before Freedom if you stopped paying your monthly subscription you lost all access to the game. With Freedom you can continue to play. Granted you will have restrictions placed on your account, but if you are expecting to experience the game as you did before as a paying subscriber you are just kidding yourself. I have told several of my friends who used to play about the changes comming with Freedom. Some will come back to check it out, and some don't care for the restrictions to a Premium account. That's ok. They weren't playing/paying before Freedom and they won't after. As for those who do come back, they will either play for free under the limitations of the account restrictions, or they will resubscribe. It's a no-lose situation for NCSoft. |
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The Positron Quote from here:|
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Found posts with quotes from devs, trying to find the dev quotes.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...8&postcount=67 http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...5&postcount=68 Woah, that thread derails into a talk about DC, shame that was a not so good mmo. |
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?p=3024907
The War Witch quote from here:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?p=2820343
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
The devs SPECIFICALLY stated the Incarnate system was a VIP Perk... way back when the announcements about all this began, I don't know where this "Surprise reveal" attitude is coming from.
VIP-only benefits, including:
The Incarnate System, where you team up with up to 23 other Heroes and Villains in epic group encounters, and unlock new powers and rewards.
Experience new VIP content (including the City of Heroes Going Rogue expansion content and new monthly Signature Story Arcs) for free.
Enjoy one free character transfer per month, priority queuing, and VIP customer support.
Gain Exclusive access to Exalted, a new VIP-only server.
Incarnates is the carrot for VIP status... it isn't a screw you, it is a "you know you want me big boy..."
~Elvnsword
"when i can savagely beat sheep while issuing ultimatums and torturing people, then i may go back into it" -vara nocturne
Not enough Evil...
I take it back NC SOFT is enough evil for anyone...