Premium Players get less than expected!
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2011-09-24 05:58 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Did you buy GR or not?|
Originally Posted by Tutara
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To access my Bots MM costs me an additional £10.50. To access my Demon Summoning MM costs me an additional £6.40 on top of |
If you bought GR you are not getting charged twice for Demon Summoning
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Not in the context as I understood it, because one is not contingent on the other. It's only in addition to the nothing that you pay to play the game now.
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Originally Posted by Tutara
To access any of my Dominator characters is free.
To access my Bots MM costs me an additional £10.50. To access my Demon Summoning MM costs me an additional £6.40 on top of that. This is an additional charge, surely? |
'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
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Macskull's post indicated that owners of GR (such as myself) who became Premium were expected to pay for the powerset again if they wished to access it as a Premium player. That was my bone of contention.|
Originally Posted by warden_de_dios
Did you buy GR or not?
If you bought GR you are not getting charged twice for Demon Summoning |
Thankfully, it appears that his information was incorrect, according to the subsequent responses (including yours).
awesome!
Just popping in and out to make a single point:
The purpose of creating a "Premium" player class was not so that all currently-subscribed players could unsubscribe; it was to entice both new free players and returning former subscribers to become and remain subscribers. Subscriptions are still intended to be this game's primary source of revenue; this has been explicitly stated by the developers. As such, there will be some major things locked behind subscription so as to make subscriber/VIP the preferred player status. And in looking through the Paragon Market and Paragon Rewards system, Incarnate content is one of the very few things that is truly only available to VIPs.
Positron: "There are no bugs [in City of Heroes], just varying degrees of features."
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This really seems to be the bit that people don't understand. Some stuff is gonna stay behind the VIP subscription, no matter what, otherwise nobody would subscribe. If Incarnate doodads are that important, pay up.
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Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater
The purpose of creating a "Premium" player class was not so that all currently-subscribed players could unsubscribe
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The hybrid model doesn't usually run that way. Usually everything is available for free to play players for a lump sum price and this works out very very favourably to the company. Most people aren't lifers when it comes to a MMO, they stay for a few months tops. The F2P model is designed to milk as much money out of them as possible during their short stay and it works wonderfully.|
Originally Posted by Emberly
This really seems to be the bit that people don't understand. Some stuff is gonna stay behind the VIP subscription, no matter what, otherwise nobody would subscribe. If Incarnate doodads are that important, pay up.
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I for one am very susceptable to the Hybrid model, I think "yay, a hundred bucks now and I'll never have to pay again!" two months down the road, I have no intentions of ever playing again and I have dropped $100 when I could have got the same value for $30.
NCSoft obviously is taking a different route and that is their choice to make, I'm just not sure there is any wisdom to it but I for one am happy they chose to take the path less travelled.
Also, I love your avatar - everytime I see it I feel compelled to smile!
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You can do the same thing here. Drop $12 for an IO license, AE license and AH license for 2 months. Play as much as you want, buy some consumables or some costume pieces, then leave. You don't get the Incarnate system, but you get pretty much everything else, and for less than a month's sub. How are you not further ahead in this system? You don't have to drop money on zones, or quest packs, or anything that in any way impedes you from playing the game from 1-50.
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Originally Posted by Giant2005
The hybrid model doesn't usually run that way. Usually everything is available for free to play players for a lump sum price and this works out very very favourably to the company. Most people aren't lifers when it comes to a MMO, they stay for a few months tops. The F2P model is designed to milk as much money out of them as possible during their short stay and it works wonderfully.
I for one am very susceptable to the Hybrid model, I think "yay, a hundred bucks now and I'll never have to pay again!" two months down the road, I have no intentions of ever playing again and I have dropped $100 when I could have got the same value for $30. NCSoft obviously is taking a different route and that is their choice to make, I'm just not sure there is any wisdom to it but I for one am happy they chose to take the path less travelled. Also, I love your avatar - everytime I see it I feel compelled to smile! |
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Maybe I should clarify. On a personal note, I am absolutely glad that there are things you can't gain with lump sum one time purchases. It means I will stay subbed and continue playing as per normal with no real opportunity cost.|
Originally Posted by Feycat
You can do the same thing here. Drop $12 for an IO license, AE license and AH license for 2 months. Play as much as you want, buy some consumables or some costume pieces, then leave. You don't get the Incarnate system, but you get pretty much everything else, and for less than a month's sub. How are you not further ahead in this system? You don't have to drop money on zones, or quest packs, or anything that in any way impedes you from playing the game from 1-50.
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In other Hybrid games, the decision is not so easy, I can stay subbed or I can drop a hundred or so dollars and play for free, because you can't buy incarnates, that decision is made for me and I am grateful for that.
I am just saying, CoH has deviated from the norm with this set up and it probably isn't a smart move financially. If it was done as a money grab, it would have been done the same proven way that the other MMOs do it. I think they have deviated from the norm and have sacrificed their own earning potential because they want to increase the longevity of this game and I salute them for that.
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Originally Posted by Death_Badger
That makes no difference
Going Rogue Pre Purchase was announced March 02, 2010. It included the Alpha Slot In July the Alpha Slot got moved back because of the beta tests One of our Favourite Posters from the boards, Golden Girl stated...Almost certainly - it's one of the big selling features of GR. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...2&postcount=21 and check this video : At 6.34 Positron himself states that the first Incarnate Level is included in GR... |
Since people seem to be ignoring this post, it seems worthwhile to quote it.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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Your reasoning escapes me, but I replied to it 20-ish posts back.
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Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Since people seem to be ignoring this post, it seems worthwhile to quote it.
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'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
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You're assuming that reason is involved at all.
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Originally Posted by Aneko
Your reasoning escapes me, but I replied to it 20-ish posts back.
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Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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Because saying "Golden Girl said so!" is totally worthless? She spams every thread, very rarely with useful information, and is not a dev.|
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Since people seem to be ignoring this post, it seems worthwhile to quote it.
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Originally Posted by Justice Blues
Umm, no. The actual chain of events has been posted in this thread, and Arcanaville posted the entire sequence in detail here.
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Originally Posted by Feycat
Since YOU seem to be ignoring this post, I thought it would be worthwhile to quote it. Arcanaville IS a reliable source, though also not a dev, granted. |
Second video link he posts, 6:40ish seconds in, going rogue comes with one incarnate level (alpha), with more to come in Issue 19.
That's straight from the dev's themselves, that they later changed their mind, doesn't matter people bought going rogue based on that presentation.
Brawling Cactus from a distant planet.
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This seems fairly irrelevant.
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Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Second video link he posts, 6:40ish seconds in, going rogue comes with one incarnate level (alpha), with more to come in Issue 19.
That's straight from the dev's themselves, that they later changed their mind, doesn't matter people bought going rogue based on that presentation. |
'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
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The relevant question is, based on the information available at the time: Would anyone have bought GR based on the (reasonable) asumption that they would have access to the Incarnate System without paying a subscription fee? |
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
That's straight from the dev's themselves, that they later changed their mind, doesn't matter people bought going rogue based on that presentation.
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The answer is no.
Therefore, they were not mislead. Everyone who bought GR can continue to enjoy the Incarnate System if they keep payinng for access to the game, under the exact same conditions they may (or may not) have believed to be the case when they decided to purchase it.
Always remember, we were Heroes.
Wow, 10 pages folks? Really?
Really?
Stop feeding the trolls, please!
We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)
The Alpha Slot was promised as a "sneak peak" nothing more. It was removed due to player feedback. And again, there has to be something to distinguish VIP from Premium and this is it. Please read the Eula carefully with regard to their right to make changes to the model and any part therein. The Incarnate system was not touted on the box for GR it was a prerequisite nothing more.
The system was never meant for the existing player base to step down to Premium. No lifetime subscription was promised, in fact it was stated they would not offer such and thereby the Paragon Reward system should not be used as a scapegoat either. If you wish to step away from the game, that is your decision.
Instead of continuing this how about you give some suggestions as to what could benefit VIPs instead of Incarnate exclusivity.
Quick addendum: Now you know why Marketing is always so tight-lipped and why Black Pebble kills a puppy every time Positron or Zwillinger positively asserts anything.
For god's sake, people, stop this madness and THINK OF THE PUPPIES!!!
We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)
Wow, this whiny entitlement thread grew a lot faster than the last one, which grew faster than the previous one. Within a couple of weeks, these threads should be able to reach infinite posts overnight.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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Rofl! You just admitted that the Incarnate stuff wasn't a part of Going Rogue because the devs changed their minds. |
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Second video link he posts, 6:40ish seconds in, going rogue comes with one incarnate level (alpha), with more to come in Issue 19.
That's straight from the dev's themselves, that they later changed their mind, doesn't matter people bought going rogue based on that presentation. |
FYI to all, if you feel premium players are getting screwed let's think, they could not have access at all for not playing the way it was... least this way you can log in to keep your SG last login more "fresh". You can log in and check things out, even low level stuff is still fun, lots of toons I could make and not even notice my VIP wasn't there. LOT'S of people like to role play in COH and don't even level their toons. This new system lets people unlock things like costumes and auras when their interest in the game isn't in level 50s.
I just saw a girl come back with 36mo vet, and her highest toon was a 35, because she's a role-player.
I think the only "pain" this system will make is for VIP, NOT premium players as we now have to check who we're teaming with for certain TFs etc. as someone without IOs could prove less than helpful.
Seems to me premium works more like 1. Let the old subscribers log in 2. make them envious of their friends 3. they just WANT the sub again to be the beefy toon they once were
Only issue I see with Paragon Studios is with global channels, this is I feel the biggest issue as everyone needs to be in chat so when they see the "BAF forming" for the millionth time they decide they want a sub to join in!
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I'm going to re-post what Arcanaville said, because she summed it up very well:
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Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
Second video link he posts, 6:40ish seconds in, going rogue comes with one incarnate level (alpha), with more to come in Issue 19.
That's straight from the dev's themselves, that they later changed their mind, doesn't matter people bought going rogue based on that presentation. |
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
But when Going Rogue was announced and its features listed in public, like say at PAX (see here and here) the Alpha preview was said to be part of Going Rogue as a "by the way" when talking about Issue 19, not as a direct part of discussing Going Rogue. The Alpha preview was not a highlighted feature of Going Rogue.
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"A preview of X with purchase of Y" does not mean "X is part of Y". It means that players are getting a sneak peak of a system that will be fully implemented later.
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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I have only one thing to bring into this thread. A mirror
Don't count your weasels before they pop dink!
To access my Bots MM costs me an additional £10.50.
To access my Demon Summoning MM [theoretically, not actually given new information in the post under yours] costs me an additional £6.40 on top of that. This is an additional charge, surely?