Discussion: VIP Head Start - Patch Notes for Build 2100.201109170227.1
By
all_hell,
Posted on: 2011-09-20 09:08 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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I have no love for farming in this game, but I can't justify saying that self-rezzing mobs giving XP for the second defeat is an exploit with a straight face. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Fixing exploits is never totally pointless - but the problem with these AE fixes is that it leaves behind a pile of abandoned farm missions as the exploiters move on to the next exploit they've found, which just clutters up the AE mission list.
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For one, this behavior occurs elsewhere in the game - Freakshow mobs can randomly self-rez, and they give XP the second time, in dev-created content.
For two, let us break the argument down. A self-rezzing mob is, generally, equally as difficult to kill the second time around as it was the first time around. To argue that it shouldn't give XP for the second kill, which takes exactly the same effort as the first, skews the reward model regardless of whether you're measuring time/reward (because they take twice as long to kill) or risk/reward (because they have twice the opportunity to hurt you).
But, if the basis of your argument is that they shouldn't give XP for the second kill because the challenge of a self-rezzing mob is not commensurate with the XP they give, one can only logically conclude that the mob shouldn't be worth XP at all, because the second kill is exactly as difficult as the first. So if the second kill is "too easy" to be worth XP, isn't the first kill also?
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This doesn't slow anything down.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
But it must slow you down a little bit, otherwise they wouldn't have done it
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The time lost by having to Enter/Exit is offset by the time gained from not having to defeat rezzed mobs.
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
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This was long overdue. While I shed no tears for any (minor) inconvenience to farmers - though personally I'd prefer they stay in their AE missions as long as possible - I can't help but notice that this reduces only one part of the farming equation. Since among the rewards tickets can be redeemed for are recipes - which, coincidentally, are now sold on the official MTX Market - does this mean that Paragon is now trying to cut out the competition?
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Originally Posted by Freitag;3885834[B
Mission Architect[/B]
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Even without the self rez you can still PL and maximize ticket gains pretty damn quickly, no exploits needed. Unless you consider facing enemies designed to do damage that you're protected against an "exploit". I really don't think it is, one could farm Rikti as an Elec or farm Council Empire as an Invuln just as well.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Fixing exploits is never totally pointless - but the problem with these AE fixes is that it leaves behind a pile of abandoned farm missions as the exploiters move on to the next exploit they've found, which just clutters up the AE mission list.
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In your opinion...|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Anything that makes the AE even the smallest bit harder for PLers is good for the game.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I have no lag problems
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Originally Posted by Beef_Cake
Leave this poster alone, he/she is trying to PL their post count! It doesn't effect you does it?
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Fixing exploits is never totally pointless - but the problem with these AE fixes is that it leaves behind a pile of abandoned farm missions as the exploiters move on to the next exploit they've found, which just clutters up the AE mission list.
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The monkey farm? Yea, that was an exploit.
The Mastermind farm? Yea... that was also...
These are regular NPCs using regular powers in-game at their normal values.
In my opinion, these are completely different circumstances.
I mean, let's say a friend of mine is running Carnie missions and asks me to come alone. Am I exploiting the game if I use a toon that does all lethal damage since Carnies are less resistant to it?
This is almost as bad as what they did with the Freakshow rezzers.
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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
And this also potentially hurts LEGITIMATE arcs that used mobs that rez.
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[ @Zombie Fryer ][ @Zombie Smasher ]
| Home Server: Virtue |
Twitter: @ZFLikesNachos Save City of Heroes (Titan Network) [Successful "The Really Hard Way" runs: 4] [Click ^]
| Home Server: Virtue |
Twitter: @ZFLikesNachos Save City of Heroes (Titan Network) [Successful "The Really Hard Way" runs: 4] [Click ^]
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Actually that's not what it is intended to do. It does not identify which missions give excessive rewards and it certainly won't delete them. Heaven forbid if someone just happens to make one of these said missions you speak of and it......wait for it is actually a good one and it gets deleted so what do you say to them? I can complain all day and night about PLers but you know what in the end it's not going to affect me play this game and I really don't have the time to complain about it like most people do. I feel that folks are taking this game either way to serious or this is actually their life to find the ups and downs and whichever flaws they can find. Now if that were the case you really wouldn't have a game. Because before AE there were regular missions that people complained about folks getting to 50 so fast lmao now its this AE everyone is getting hot and bothered about. Who am I to tell someone they BETTER play to 50 or else? Not my place or anyone else for that matter. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
That's something else that Marty might be able to do - identify AE missions that were giving excessive rewards and then delete them.
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This really isn't a bad suggestion.
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Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare
Also at this time, I will again suggest just allowing Ticket rewards for defeats and completions then creating a Ticket/Time sink by allowing them to be exchanged for XP, Inf and Prestige (in addition to the current tables). Keep a Ticket cap, adjust the Ticket drop amount and rate, bring back all the removed powers and ease back on some of the nerfs (like this one). |
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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And the devs' opinion too |
Originally Posted by SolarSentai
In your opinion...
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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You're using logic on an internet forum????|
Originally Posted by Reiska
I have no love for farming in this game, but I can't justify saying that self-rezzing mobs giving XP for the second defeat is an exploit with a straight face.
For one, this behavior occurs elsewhere in the game - Freakshow mobs can randomly self-rez, and they give XP the second time, in dev-created content. For two, let us break the argument down. A self-rezzing mob is, generally, equally as difficult to kill the second time around as it was the first time around. To argue that it shouldn't give XP for the second kill, which takes exactly the same effort as the first, skews the reward model regardless of whether you're measuring time/reward (because they take twice as long to kill) or risk/reward (because they have twice the opportunity to hurt you). But, if the basis of your argument is that they shouldn't give XP for the second kill because the challenge of a self-rezzing mob is not commensurate with the XP they give, one can only logically conclude that the mob shouldn't be worth XP at all, because the second kill is exactly as difficult as the first. So if the second kill is "too easy" to be worth XP, isn't the first kill also? |
*watches forum explosion count down clock*
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
GG must be feeling under the weather, I counted no less than 3 of her posts without the smiley
/gignore @username is the best feature of this game. It's also probably the least used feature.
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Originally Posted by Nights_Dawn
Hazy is right
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I think it might be more of a direct comparison to look at the portals Rikti Communication Officers put up. At one time, the mobs spawned from the portals would give experience. Now they do not, because some were farming them to get extra mobs on the same map, and an incentive to kill the portal itself (xp/inf) was added. |
Originally Posted by Reiska
I have no love for farming in this game, but I can't justify saying that self-rezzing mobs giving XP for the second defeat is an exploit with a straight face.
For one, this behavior occurs elsewhere in the game - Freakshow mobs can randomly self-rez, and they give XP the second time, in dev-created content. For two, let us break the argument down. A self-rezzing mob is, generally, equally as difficult to kill the second time around as it was the first time around. To argue that it shouldn't give XP for the second kill, which takes exactly the same effort as the first, skews the reward model regardless of whether you're measuring time/reward (because they take twice as long to kill) or risk/reward (because they have twice the opportunity to hurt you). But, if the basis of your argument is that they shouldn't give XP for the second kill because the challenge of a self-rezzing mob is not commensurate with the XP they give, one can only logically conclude that the mob shouldn't be worth XP at all, because the second kill is exactly as difficult as the first. So if the second kill is "too easy" to be worth XP, isn't the first kill also? |
While I like farming (long before AE), I am unsurprised by this change and grateful it does not effect the game at large. Though I hope, like the portal xp, there is a reward added for the lack of experience for killing an enemy twice.
Mostly Triumph with a side of Guardian
@mangagirl & @mangagirl2
AKA "Noah Bailey"
well id love posi to come here and try and tell me how this risk ='s reward now since thats the premise of the game
since there is no reward shouldnt you just take out self rezzing in the ae altogether?. i mean wouldnt that have been a real fix to the lesser " nerfing farms?"
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gotta be tiring being so wrong all the time i would think
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Originally Posted by Hazygreys
GG must be feeling under the weather, I counted no less than 3 of her posts without the smiley
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Their opinion or marketing's opinion? |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
And the devs' opinion too
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I'm all for patching exploits, but this wasn't an exploit.
It's very coincidental that all these "limiting" changes lately happen to come right as Freedom and the Paragon Store launches.
Trying to limit the amount of influence, loot and xp that can be earned in-game when you can conveniently buy them in the store with real money? Yea, like that doesn't send up red flags. Granted you can't purchase influence (yet?) but I wouldn't be surprised if at some point 100,000,000 influence made it into the store for 400PP.
[ @Zombie Fryer ][ @Zombie Smasher ]
| Home Server: Virtue |
Twitter: @ZFLikesNachos Save City of Heroes (Titan Network) [Successful "The Really Hard Way" runs: 4] [Click ^]
| Home Server: Virtue |
Twitter: @ZFLikesNachos Save City of Heroes (Titan Network) [Successful "The Really Hard Way" runs: 4] [Click ^]
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There's a time and a place for them |
Originally Posted by Hazygreys
GG must be feeling under the weather, I counted no less than 3 of her posts without the smiley
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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But that might mess up proper missions that use it for story purposes.
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Originally Posted by Severe
since there is no reward shouldnt you just take out self rezzing in the ae altogether?
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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/all this. |
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Them doing it doesn't mean it's the most effective thing to do.
If anything this makes farming easier, as the incentive to make mobs take longer to kill (rezzing) is gone. Folks will just fill maps now with mobs that don't rez or will simply exit the map sooner. Also clogs up the search more as the new "non rez mob" farms are added to the list. And the search is the WORST FEATURE of AE hands down. period. /golfclap. And this also potentially hurts LEGITIMATE arcs that used mobs that rez. |
A futile gesture, really. (Rather like trying to talk sense to Trollden Girl.) But, given that MARTy didn't seem to really be affecting these, I suppose they "had to be seen to do something."
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Faulty logic. The Devs have already done a pass that eliminated 'rez other' powers. I'm pretty sure that was urine in some legitimate author's corn flakes.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
But that might mess up proper missions that use it for story purposes.
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Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
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Or Marty might have told them which exploit to hit first |
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
But, given that MARTy didn't seem to really be affecting these, I suppose they "had to be seen to do something."
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
PowerLeveling is okay, just do it marginally slower than you do it now plz.
... O_o
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And you'll still complain and break out the tired and constantly disproven argument that "You're gonna lose a bunch of people over this."|
Originally Posted by Xanatos
What a completely pointless MA change. I'll still PL to 50 in a day.
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Originally Posted by Xanatos
It's pointless because it doesn't stop me from "exploiting" this game like a badman.
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That post basically boils down to "Wah! +1"
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Originally Posted by Draeth Darkstar
This will just lead people to farm mobs that don't self-rez, and
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Originally Posted by Draeth Darkstar
It will also help her experience more lag during her regularly scheduled play as the mapserver will be bogged down with more instances per hour (potentially approaching twice as many as previously) for AE farmers! |
Exactly how many players are farming the same mobs over and over, hours on end, at any given time?
If this "has no impact" on it, how is it magically going to "double the instances per hour?"
You're trying to make two contradictory arguments for the sake of deriding this change and hoping no one will notice.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Fixing exploits is never totally pointless.
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Originally Posted by Draeth Darkstar
I almost cried I laughed so hard at this (disturbingly accurate) depiction of
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Still hate the visit Winscott mission- make it dropable, have it give actual exp or remove it altogether. PS- Down knows who you are.
J/ Wilde/ / AIL - Celebrating five years!
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I think that this latest buff to the AE should be viewed as just the first step in Marty's crusade |
Originally Posted by TheXor
PowerLeveling is okay, just do it marginally slower than you do it now plz.
... O_o |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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If MARTy wasn't affecting them, I took it as meaning that they weren't giving enough rewards so as to be considered exploitive by the devs. I guess that assumption was just plain wrong.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
/all this.
A futile gesture, really. (Rather like trying to talk sense to Trollden Girl.) But, given that MARTy didn't seem to really be affecting these, I suppose they "had to be seen to do something." |
so...new patch? anyone else's billing get cancelled, then have to reactivate it and the forums still don't understand that I am a VIP?
@craggy see me on Union for TFs, SFs (please!) or just some good ol fashioned teaming.
Kinda bummed about the no rez XP thing. I don't have a farm arc but having that option in there added reward to a theme that I was using that many just would rather avoid if it weren't for the reward.
Not that people were banging down my door to play the arc but the net effect I could see is the AE crowd going from complimenting my use of rez to complaining about it and dropping what little ratings I had managed to scrape up. (ie. Risk vs. Reward turned into just Risk; which may be frowned upon by more than just the farmers)
The other thing about this change is that it allowed me to increase the number of mobs without actually increasing it. Now that workaround is dead.
What I don't get is why they just didn't pull the current rez powers like they did the others.
Now I have to re-balance my relevant arcs. Without the rez option, I'm caught between having missions that players blow through in half the time and bumping up critters to unmanageable levels (which doesn't take much) that I have Uber-toons on my reviews page crying about.
You are whittling down options for those that use custom critters.
At this point, I will echo the sentiment of even having rewards for AE if at every turn, a new blanket nerf is going to be added in.
Also at this time, I will again suggest just allowing Ticket rewards for defeats and completions then creating a Ticket/Time sink by allowing them to be exchanged for XP, Inf and Prestige (in addition to the current tables). Keep a Ticket cap, adjust the Ticket drop amount and rate, bring back all the removed powers and ease back on some of the nerfs (like this one).
Okay, I'm done whining, for now.
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars