Freedom? Hardly

I just wanna nitpick and request we don't call them points, because it muddies the water between Paragon Points (spent in the Paragon Market) and Paragon Reward Tokens (spent in the Paragon Rewards Program). I've already seen people conflating the two, or getting confused on which one gets spent where. Cleaning up our usage helps clear up confusion.

Originally Posted by Dispari I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.

This^

I look at Freem and see that I can do everything I did with my first 50 (some 600 hours) without spending a penny with the exception of some chat options (removed for sensible reasons). Everything else (bases, inventions etc etc) do not constitute the core game. You might feel differently if your first 50 was a controller though

I also think its good business sense to leave some things subscription only. Having subscribed long enough to have permanent Invention access and having bought more that one costume pack, if I got the Incarnate content as well then NCSoft might never get another penny from me So while I don't think a request for a one off purchase of Incarnate content is unreasonable I don't think it makes good business sense.

Every time prior to Freedom that suggestions were made to allow people to get vet rewards in different order, or shorter time, or by purchase, this argument gets trotted out.

If we are not in fact puritans, are we still required to subscribe to the puritan work ethic?

This is not about reducing or revoking capabiltiies earned by vets (and I am as veteran as one can be), which would arguably constitute 'the shaft." This is about YOUR notions of propriety, tied up in whatever issues make you attach this kind of importance to a game (and I have been gaming for over 30 years, and wrote them at one time - I do take gaming seriously, but not in the context of how much bigger it makes me than other players).

I am not shafted when someone else can access the same things I do that give us both pleasure (for a certain value of shafted, given that we are speaking of pleasure). Any achievement I feel in how I got a given reward is not diminished when someone else achieves that reward on "easier" terms. My value to myself is measured by my own achievements, not by distress at the achievements of others.

I don't have a problem with the particular aspect of the Premium Rewards system that you're talking about. As I said before...

In other words...I don't have a problem with this...it's darn similar to the current Veteran Rewards Program and I'm okay with it. It's THIS that I personally feel returning players might have a problem with.

It gives them bragging rights, presuming they still live in their parent's basement and have nothing more significant in their lives to brag about.

Anything that involves 7 years of continuous subscription. You aren't under the deluded belief this game will still exist in 2018, are you?

In a very likely scenario, anything greater than the 3 year vet rewards served no function whatsoever. They reward an impossible behavior.

None of the tiers have only temp rewards except for the repeatable ones, and you can't fill those in.

I looked at your this and can't see a single thing for returning players to be upset about. They come back login and depending on how long they have played in the past they get some level of access. If they want better access they can resubscribe or pay money upfront.

Where is the problem in this for returning players? demanding it all be given to them for free isn't someone we need returning.

No, that isn't true. The consumables you're referring to are "repeatable". You don't need to fill them all in before you're qualified to claim something from the VIP exclusive Tier-9's.

I'm starting to think that the two sections of Tier-9 should have been placed side-by-side instead of one above the other. It seems that there's a measurable percentage of people who assume that the placement indicates precedence.

The only precedence is that one section of that tier is VIP-only.

These kinds of pronouncements always make me chuckle. Guess what? People still subscribe to Ultima Online(1997) and Everquest(1999). Heck, people still play Meridian 59(1996).

As long as there's a core group of players willing to subscribe to the game and NCSoft can make enough money to maintain a profit margin on it, it will be here for them to play.

I observe that Kingdom of Drakker (1997-98?) and the island one that started with an L are still active. So yes any claim that presumes it knows what games will still be going in 7 years are just being silly.

I think the vast majority of returning players will go like this: (pretend it's a previously 25 month veteran)

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Awesome! I don't have to pay for the game! Instead of this, like it used to be: ...when I don't pay, I will instead get: ...all for free! Plus I think I will get some extra tokens for various other reasons, so I might even get this: ...in addition to the above! If I don't actually get that, then it's only a couple tokens away...which means subbing for a couple months or buying some points to spend on the market, where they have a lot of tantalizing items that I can spend those points on.

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Let's be honest, Manoa. Please. The vast majority of returning players will end up something like the above. We have seen this with other games. The small minority that will result in disappointment, as you assume, will be a drop in the bucket and should not be catered to.

Originally Posted by Dispari I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.

Manoa,

I read your blog, I liked your blog, I thought it was full of interesting thoughts and linked it to this thread first thing.

That said, could you address the question I threw out that it seems the original addressee will not answer?

Previously, a returning vet had to plunk down $15 in order to play for a month, see their characters, have access to their loot, etc.

Now, presuming they don't have enough accumulated vet rewards to have permanent access to IOs, they now have to plunk down $2 in order to access their loot for a month.

How is that not a step up for the returning player?

You know, after interjecting crassly into this thread, and then reading all of the arguments, I have to say that I agree. Even if I cannot afford to keep a subscription in the future, I can still keep playing the game without paying, due to the amount of money I've already invested in the game. Certainly, I won't be able to access everything I can access with a subscription, but I can still play if I want.

Obviously, for returning players, the amount of access, especially to things like chat channels, inventory space, Inf cap, IOs, etc. wholly depends on how much they've invested in the game. That may chafe some, but in all honesty, you've got to pay to play, regardless of if that payment is a subscription or pay-as-you-go.

IMPO, the Paragon Rewards system is superior to other F2P systems. This thread has shown me that. Ironically Mamoa, I would have never seen this thread if you hadn't complained about it via social networking

Your right. My bad there. Still not used to the new terminology.

There's no argument from me that it indeed is a step up from the current system. Before, they couldn't access anything...with Freedom, they can with restrictions.

But the problem is the fact that returning Premium players are returning with the expectations that this is a free to play game that has three account tiers (whether it is or isn't F2P is neither here nor there, and whether anyone feels their expectations are justified or not is neither here nor there, I'm not going that road of argument, only talking about consumer perception). They expect certain restrictions because they're not paying, but the stuff listed as "Limited" on the account matrix is a wee bit vague. So they don't have a clear idea of what to expect.

They sign-up to play their characters and find it really isn't a three tier account system...but more like a 9 or so (I'm on a work trip and don't have time to look it up) tier account system due to the Premium Tier Account Perks. And unless you have over 5 years of vet badges under your belt (no small feat, as that's a pretty huge time commitment), you discover you're essentially without enhancement because your IOs are greyed out.

And while $2 per month for IO access isn't a hefty charge, could potentially turn returning Premium players away since it shatters the image of free to play too early in the play experience (again, not arguing semantics of whether or not it is actually F2P here, just what these players are likely expecting). If the intent is to excite those returning players enough to re-up their subs, it's not a particularly diplomatic way of going about it.

Overall, the Premium Tier Perks adds a level of complexity to the system that doesn't make it a simple three account tier hybrid as it is being marketed...but more like 9 or so account tier hybrid since around 7 of those account tiers are hidden into the Premium account as Premium Tier Perks (again, the actual number may be a little off, I just don't have time to look it up to be sure). And it all can be pretty darn confusing to those who haven't kept up to date with everything.

I'm with TerraDraconis on this. I'm still not seeing what the problem is.

Someone once challenged me with this statement "you're deluded if you think this game will be around for ten years" back around the beginning of 2005. Whether they meant "in total" or just from that moment, either way the odds seem pretty good their statement will end up being unjustifiably certain in its outlook.

So the problem is that some people are too lazy or too stupid to pay attention to the info being given out that clearly shows that CoH isn't switching to an F2P business model.

Color me unsympathetic to their complaints.

I think, though, this assertion is quickly becoming meaningless. If I asked for returning players to get everything VIP players get except the tier 9 VIP rewards and access to the VIP server, I could also make the case that I never asserted that returning players should get the entire game for nothing.

The more salient point is that many people believe if some hypothetical person would be unsatisfied with what premium or free play offers, that is a problem that should be remedied. In fact, that's deliberate by design: the free and premium tiers exist deliberately lacking things that VIP subscribers get, things that players would actually want more than casually.

The model that tries to make everyone comfortable playing without subscription forever and tries to make money off of them through casual accessory purchases is the Free to Play model. Which we are not.

What I think you believe is that Premium players should get everything they would be upset over not having or at least something close to that. That is close enough to everything to be essentially everything in this context, because everything else are the non-essential casual purchase items that exist, but are not the core revenue generating elements of Freedom.