Freedom? Hardly


2short2care

 

Posted

I have to agree with the OP. If I was looking for a F2P game and saw that if I wanted to play CoH for free that meant no guilds, no crafting, no auction house, no trading, practically no ability to communicate I'd be looking elsewhere.

It doesn't have to be this bad. I know they are being extra cautious in order to placate the existing user base but for a new player coming in it's just too restrictive.

Just my 2inf.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzumebachi View Post
I have to agree with the OP. If I was looking for a F2P game and saw that if I wanted to play CoH for free that meant no guilds, no crafting, no auction house, no trading, practically no ability to communicate I'd be looking elsewhere.

It doesn't have to be this bad. I know they are being extra cautious in order to placate the existing user base but for a new player coming in it's just too restrictive.

Just my 2inf.
That's the whole point I'm trying to make. They're basically saying "Hey, free to play now just like champions online, we're just a whole lot more restrictive..."

Sure there's more if you pay, but what if you stop paying for a few months? It's all gone, just like that.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzumebachi View Post
If I was looking for a F2P game and saw that if I wanted to play CoH for free that meant no guilds, no crafting, no auction house, no trading, practically no ability to communicate I'd be looking elsewhere.
That's only for the first 30 days, or the first 15 bucks spent - whichever happens first


@Golden Girl

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
That's only for the first 30 days, or the first 15 bucks spent - whichever happens first
GG from my understanding the monthly system does not reward free players, and I have yet to find any evidence from a developer or moderator to say otherwise.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
But doesn't trading comes after one month of play? Like isn't that unlocked with the second reward token everyone gets after playing for one month?
Can you point me to a redname post or one of Von Krieger's UStream transcripts in which it was said free/premium would get Paragon Rewards tokens? (Or, have the free second beta accounts been around for 30 days and thus evidence of how it works?) I thought that's how it worked, but when I went looking for evidence (I like to provide citations) all I found was, on the website, "Paragon Rewards gives you credit for every single month you are a VIP player".

Although the website still calls Reward Level "tiers" (which IIRC was changed to the aforementioned Reward Level) so it might not be up-to-date/accurate.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
But doesn't trading comes after one month of play? Like isn't that unlocked with the second reward token everyone gets after playing for one month?
Any new player who doesn't pay for the game has to wait 30 days before they can trade, join SGs or use Tells and e-mails - that seems like a reasonable delay for someone not contributing anything to development and running costs.
Plus, during those 30 days, it's quite possible that a free player could buy 1,200 Paragon Points for various things in the Market, so they'd get their 2nd reward token early.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
That's only for the first 30 days, or the first 15 bucks spent - whichever happens first
I'm not so sure this is accurate. From everything I've seen, it seems like the tokens will only drop automatically for VIP players. This would mean that if the F2P player doesn't spend the $15 on points, then they will never see that second token.


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Posted

Here's your perspective problem, OP:

You think City of Heroes: Freedom is meant for Free players, and because you take that view, it's understandable how you'd come to the conclusions you have.

The reality is this: Freedom is really what Premium players experience. You have the freedom to experience the game as much or as little as you want to pay for. Monthly subscribers (VIPs) will still get the same game experience they've always received, so there's not much really changing for them. Free players are still very limited in their experience, just like previous free players (Trial players) have been experiencing, but they do get to take characters to max level, which is a big bonus, and they can add parts to the game via Points purchasing that no current trial player could without subscribing to the entire game. The true dynamic part of Freedom lies within the Premium level. Former paying accounts can now play the game without resubbing. They retain the level of vet rewards they earned before they stopped paying, they don't lose any characters (just access to some if they have more than their status allows, but they can also buy tokens to unlock them again). They can still be in chat channels and SGs if they choose. They can still play their Epic ATs if they've unlocked them. If they don't care about Incarnates or Praetoria, they don't have to pay extra for it, and they can continue to play the majority of the game sub-free.

How is that not Freedom? We're going from either paying completely and having access to everything, or not paying and having zero access, to having three ways to play the game, and only one requires a monthly sub.


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Posted

What I am seeing here is that some people do not understand that Freedom will not turn City of Heroes into a free-to-play game - precisely as intended. What it is intended to do, and what it will do, is allow people to try a significant chunk of the game at no cost indefinitely, and then allow them to unlock another significant chunk of the game in perpetuity with a single one-time purchase if they prefer to do so, or subscribe and receive even more access.

Think carefully: if a free player knows that certain privileges are locked behind a one time payment, and those privileges are important to them, and they choose not to pay for them but rather to stop playing the game, what precisely has been lost? Not a customer, because they weren't willing to pay for things they wanted.

If you don't think this business model will work, that is a prediction which will or will not be borne out by subsequent events - but if you think that the developers were trying for a different business model and happened to stumble into this one through poor implementation, then you don't understand what Freedom was designed to be.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Virfortis View Post
GG from my understanding the monthly system does not reward free players, and I have yet to find any evidence from a developer or moderator to say otherwise.
They've already said that all players earn them.


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by White Hot Flash View Post
Here's your perspective problem, OP:

You think City of Heroes: Freedom is meant for Free players, and because you take that view, it's understandable how you'd come to the conclusions you have.

The reality is this: Freedom is really what Premium players experience. You have the freedom to experience the game as much or as little as you want to pay for. Monthly subscribers (VIPs) will still get the same game experience they've always received, so there's not much really changing for them. Free players are still very limited in their experience, just like previous free players (Trial players) have been experiencing, but they do get to take characters to max level, which is a big bonus, and they can add parts to the game via Points purchasing that no current trial player could without subscribing to the entire game. The true dynamic part of Freedom lies within the Premium level. Former paying accounts can now play the game without resubbing. They retain the level of vet rewards they earned before they stopped paying, they don't lose any characters (just access to some if they have more than their status allows, but they can also buy tokens to unlock them again). They can still be in chat channels and SGs if they choose. They can still play their Epic ATs if they've unlocked them. If they don't care about Incarnates or Praetoria, they don't have to pay extra for it, and they can continue to play the majority of the game sub-free.

How is that not Freedom? We're going from either paying completely and having access to everything, or not paying and having zero access, to having three ways to play the game, and only one requires a monthly sub.
I want to keep what I work for, I don't mind not getting bonus goodies that the VIP players will get, but I don't want all my work to be cut off simply because I can't afford to pay every single month AND work for it.

Say I'm a returning player. I got all my IOs and even have a great Warshade or whatever. I haven't played in a year, why? Well College and all, it was very time consuming. Now, CoH is going free though, so I'm sure I could just play it when I want and buy little things here and there correct?

So I log on, my character has no enhancements because they were all IOs, I can't even use that really good class I liked, stuck with the first two I made unless I delete. I can't use the invention system at all...yeah sure I can log on...but I've lost a ton of progress and work.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
They've already said that all players earn them.
All players earn them at a rate of 1 for every $15 they spend (bulk discounts notwithstanding). That can be either a free player buying points in the store, or a VIP's monthly subscription fee.

Free/Premium players don't get them for nothing.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
They've already said that all players earn them.
Could we please have a source for this? This would clear up a lot of issues many people have.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Virfortis View Post
So I log on, my character has no enhancements because they were all IOs, I can't even use that really good class I liked, stuck with the first two I made unless I delete. I can't use the invention system at all...yeah sure I can log on...but I've lost a ton of progress and work.
You get to pick which two character slots you unlock.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
They've already said that all players earn them.
No, subscribing players earn them. Free/Premium players have to buy them.

From Manoa's blog, and Snow Globe's guide already linked:

At COH-Freedom’s release, subscribers (past and present) accrue Reward Tokens based on the following:

1 Reward Token if you have applied a retail code to your account (only awarded once, if you have multiple retail keys, you only receive one token)
1 Reward Token for each Veteran Reward Badge
1 Reward Token for every 4 Veteran Rewards Badges

Going forward after COH-Freedom’s release, Reward Tokens are awarded as follows:

1 Reward Token for each month of subscription
1 Reward Token for every 12 months of subscription time
1 Reward Token for every 1,200 Paragon Points ($15) purchased


You only earn Reward Tokens by SUBSCRIBING, or BUYING points. Free and Premium players will not be rewarded automatic tokens and thus will not move toward unlocking SGs/CH/AE/etc without spending money.


 

Posted

Once you eliminate IOs then there's no need for recipes and salvage or a big bank.

No MA. You are trying to get F2P to play the game enough that they would be willing to go VIP or start buying and spending PP to get access to more things. What would leveling to 50 in a day or two accomplish toward that goal.

Subscribe for just one month or buy (not spend) 1200PP and you unlocks joining SG, player trading, mail, more comm channels (tells, global friends, SG, Coalition), allows you to play MA but for no tickets, 20x your bank and unlocks the trenchcoat (which was a 3 month vet reward so $30 plus the cost of the game).

You have to make that jump from free to premium very attractive for the cost and I think they have.

You don't need IOs to play the game, at least at 1x/+0. Sure you can't be an unhittable death machine soloing at 8x/+3 but what fun is that. It makes the game pre-market/IOs. That's not bad for free.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzumebachi View Post
I have to agree with the OP. If I was looking for a F2P game and saw that if I wanted to play CoH for free that meant no guilds, no crafting, no auction house, no trading, practically no ability to communicate I'd be looking elsewhere.
If you're looking for an F2P game, look elsewhere. City of Heroes is not becoming an F2P game.

The traditional F2P model's primary shift from the standard subscription model is that the focus is not on trying to generate a threshold of content that causes people to decide the overall value proposition is enough to subscribe essentially buying access to everything, its to try to get as many people as possible to play and placing enough purchasable options in front of them that some small subset of those players will pay and a large enough economy of scale will generate enough income to power the process.

In other words, the traditional F2P game's philosophy focuses on numbers, and the free player population, and extracting small amounts of money from many people. In such a game there is a presumption that the free gameplay must be enough, all on its own, to sustain long term play. Because its that long term play that keeps as many potential impulse purchase customers in front of your store as possible.

If that is what you're looking for, look elsewhere. This game is not becoming that. This game is, for lack of a simpler way of putting it, appropriating elements of the F2P model to in effect make a tiered customer game in which subscribers are still the primary and most important target audience for the game, Free players are in effect playing extended trials, and Premium players are playing ala carte subsets of the game.

Right now, if someone logs in and plays a trial or borrows some time from a friend's account, and decides its fun but they don't want to pay for the game, they don't become subscribers and to be blunt NCSoft doesn't want them: this is a subscription game and those who do not want to subscribe are not our target audience. That's just the way it is. When Freedom launches, that's not going to change to be "we want everyone on Earth to play for free." NCSoft still doesn't. We want people to try the game, and *if* they enjoy it enough we hope to entice them to become subscribers, or failing that Premium customers. If they want to be subscribers, they can subscribe. If they don't want to be subscribers but are willing to play a smaller subset of the game for less money, they can become Premium players. If they want to play for free but need more game than what they get for free, they can leave and NCSoft doesn't want them, just like in the past seven years when the players that didn't want to pay left and NCSoft didn't want them either. Not enough to give the game away for free, anyway.

Now I'm sure at least someone is thinking, if not typing, that they aren't asking for *everything*. Just the stuff they want and don't want to pay for. That distinction is irrelevant. This is not a game that hopes to have lots and lots of free players playing for free indefinitely. You can if you want to, but the game isn't going out of its way to serve you. This game hopes to get people to convert to paying customers, and more than that subscribers. If you think the free game is not sufficiently enticing, don't play the free game.

To put it another way, City of Heroes is a members-only amusement park that has decided to offer free limited access passes to the public. It is not a members-only amusement park that has decided to stop charging admission. It still intends to support itself in large part by membership fees, its not looking to survive primarily on hotdog stands.


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Posted

Reading this post reminded me of a little in-game feature I had forgotten about because it didn't seem to have much utility, but if enabled for free accounts will probably start getting a lot more use: The 'Friends' chat option, which will send a message to everyone on your friends list (not global). This, if available to free players, will be a pretty decent substitute for tells/broadcast.

Let's just hope it doesn't get abused and taken away. That's hoping for a lot, I know.


 

Posted

Speaking as someone who has actually played the Freem game I feel qualified to talk about this topic.

The long and short of it is that the game is not really that restrictive; especially if you're a true newbie and you don't know anything about inventions or architects or consignment houses.

The most limiting aspect of the free version of the game is the inability to chat outside of Help and Team/League. The second most limiting thing is that DO/SO drops are very limited. Other than those two items, the free game is really pretty much just City of Heroes pre-Issue 8.

Prior to level 20, there is a shortage of contacts. Post level 20 there are a lot of contacts, as well as tip missions (but no morality missions). At level 25 Ouroboros starts offering missions, and the typical progression continues with the other zones as you'd expect.

Considering what some other games offer as their free experience, it's a pretty good offering, frankly.

Influence (and presumably Infamy) is at a bit of a premium, but tip missions give a pretty sizable reward and the new sewer trial gives some pretty significant inf and enhancement rewards. Basically, a free player should have few problems aside from communicating with other players.

I think the experience compares favorably with, say, being a Bronze member in Everquest 2. It's been a long time since I played LOTRO, but I have a feeling that you'd find that it also compares favorably with the free member version of that game.

I think it makes a lot more sense to do it this way than to take the "unending trial" approach of WAR and WoW, where a player might get those inventions but be limited to max level 20.

Moreover, if Matt's past statement about "any purchase gets you to reward tier 2" holds true then the five dollar cost to become Premium and gain access to chat channels and supergroups is so nominal that I would consider it a no-brainer for anyone who isn't burdened with six kids who all want to play the game.

You don't actually NEED inventions to enjoy the game. You don't actually NEED Architect. You don't NEED the consignment house. You don't NEED incarantes. You don't NEED morality missions. You can play the game just fine without them. They're enhancements to the basic game, but none of them is a defining feature of the game.

Yes chat limitations are a pain in the butt, but again - a $5 purchase of 400 paragon points seems like a small price to pay in order to remove that limitation if it truly is causing you grief.

After living the free member life for a couple of weeks, I feel that it is, in fact, not nearly as onerous as a lot of vets imagine it will be; especially from the standpoint of a newbie who won't know what he's missing, anyway.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberation View Post
Reading this post reminded me of a little in-game feature I had forgotten about because it didn't seem to have much utility, but if enabled for free accounts will probably start getting a lot more use: The 'Friends' chat option, which will send a message to everyone on your friends list (not global). This, if available to free players, will be a pretty decent substitute for tells/broadcast.

Let's just hope it doesn't get abused and taken away. That's hoping for a lot, I know.
Friend chat was also the "Oops, sent that last tell to the wrong chat" option for players pre-global chat.


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Posted

While we certainly appreciate your feedback, I offer the following points of consideration:

- All PVE content that Premium/Free players will have access to is easily doable without IO's. One of the main reasons that non incarnate content can be challenging is difficulty sliders. Players are able to customize their experience to be something that is on par with with they're capable of handling. Additionally, these players will be able to team with players that are "geared" better than they are, allowing them to participate as well.

- All someone has to do is make a minimum investment (1 Reward Token) to have access to Private Tells. We do not feel that this is unreasonable, and it will serve as a necessary barrier of entry to prevent players from being flooded with RMT spam. 1 tier up, and they have access to ALL global chat channels. Again, we don't feel this is unreasonable.

- Our team has spent the last 12 months with the singular goal of providing the best overall experience for VIPs, Premium and Free players possible. Free players will have access to an extremely robust experience, hours upon hours of content to play though, the *most* robust character creation system and the City of Heroes Community. Premium players will have all of this, plus some amazing perks granted, just for having been a subscriber in the past. VIP players will have more than *what they have now* with features such as the Signature Story Arcs, free server transfers, more frequent updates and more content than we've been able to produce in the past.

What we've put together is a very robust free to play offering, and we're confident that players, both returning and new, will enjoy their free experience while the cornerstone of our business, the VIP player, will continue to enjoy an outstanding City of Heroes experience.

As has been said in the past, repeatedly, this isn't a fire and forget type of thing. We'll be closely watching how the different levels of players interact with each other and making improvements along the way .


Andy Belford
Community Manager
Paragon Studios

 

Posted

Honestly, I feel like every time someone posts about not liking the free/premium model, their issues stem entirely from gross misunderstandings.


Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Friggin_Taser View Post
Friend chat was also the "Oops, sent that last tell to the wrong chat" option for players pre-global chat.
LOL we used to invent suggestive one-sided conversation to send to Friends, as if you were having a just-slightly-naughty-with-innuendo conversation with someone who wasn't on the other folks' Friends list. It was highly amusing.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanden View Post
Honestly, I feel like every time someone posts about not liking the free/premium model, their issues stem entirely from gross misunderstandings.
Or misguided entitlement.

"Your freedom's not free of dumb."


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Posted

Give it time to run - Paragon may change some of the free bits as time goes on.