Spoilers for the Underground Trial
By
2short2care,
Posted on: 2011-08-09 20:52 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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And Vanessa apparently never got around to freeing Katie Douglas from the Seer network again. Lovely, between this and the First Ward arcs it's like playing the Responsibilities path all over again.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
The Avatar of the Hamidon kills Vanessa DeVore, and Desdemona uses Vanessa's mask to recover the secret she was carrying with her:
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Also, this does bring in an interesting dynamic as to whether this means Cole might be a bit nicer if Hamidon were gone from the picture.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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Wait. So me saving Katie Douglas all those times didn't happen? 
So, the Loyalist Responsibility arc is the way the storyline progresses?
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Nah, I meant it's like how The Loyalist Responsibilities arcs all were themed around doing things you'd rather not want to, but they really are the only option.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Wait. So me saving Katie Douglas all those times didn't happen?
So, the Loyalist Responsibility arc is the way the storyline progresses? |
*MASSIVE FIRST WARD ARC SPOILERS*
Katie is free, and living in the First Ward with other Seers because she doesn't want to be weaponized by Calvin Scott anymore than she liked being weaponized by Cole.
Later, you're supposed to reactivate the Seer network to protect the First Ward from a brunt of the Hate Plague, Katie gets hateful at you for that, and guess what happens and who ends up being the only seer in the room who can help you reactivate it. It's made only SLIGHTLY better because Vanessa promised to free Katie once everything was over, come the end of the First Ward and you never hear anything about Katie being freed from the network again...
And apparently, now Vanessa's died before she could make good on her promise.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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So Hamidon is the big bad after all. Hmmm, I wonder if it tries to spread over into Primal earth if it will absorb or fight against our Hamidon.
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Its possible Desdemona also got her to-do list from the mask?
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Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
And apparently, now Vanessa's died before she could make good on her promise.
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So basically they're turning the Darkness Induced Audience Apathy up to 11?
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
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Like I said: depends on how much of Cole's actions have been influenced by Hamidon holding a (proverbial) gun to his head, his (proverbial) wife's head, and his (proverbial) daughter's head.|
Originally Posted by Venture
So basically they're turning the Darkness Induced Audience Apathy up to 11?
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Might also lead to Cole being abadoned by the Well of Furies if the guy, for all his 'willpower' is just letting himself constantly get pushed around by jello Zerg.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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But.. But i like Joy Division.|
Originally Posted by Venture
So basically they're turning the Darkness Induced Audience Apathy up to 11?
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11? i think you're exaggerating (unpossible, i know). 8 or 9 tops.
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He never really defeated the Hamidon? SHOCKING, SHOCKING I say. /end sarcasm|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
The Avatar of the Hamidon kills Vanessa DeVore, and Desdemona uses Vanessa's mask to recover the secret she was carrying with her:
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Sorry, but I don't really consider this a spoiler.
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I think 11 fits perfectly.
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Originally Posted by Schismatrix
But.. But i like Joy Division.
11? i think you're exaggerating (unpossible, i know). 8 or 9 tops. |
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It's no excuse. Tyrant could have been open about the situation, appealing to his subjects' better nature. Instead he chose to believe they didn't have one, and murdered people he was supposedly trying to save.| Like I said: depends on how much of Cole's actions have been influenced by Hamidon holding a (proverbial) gun to his head, his (proverbial) wife's head, and his (proverbial) daughter's head. |
I haven't gotten to the First Ward stuff yet (I just started leveling a Praetorian character for the purpose), but this bit with Katie is pretty bleak and doesn't exactly fill me with confidence. By killing off DeVore (pretty much the Only Sane Woman in the Resistance) and forcing the player to throw Katie to the wolves it sounds like the devs chose to erase anything in the 1-20 material that could be considered a victory.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Perhaps freeing Katie is part of whatever Trial we face Mother Mayhem in.
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Belladonna didn't seem insane to me. Of course you don't really don't get a chance to know her.
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Originally Posted by Venture
It's no excuse. Tyrant could have been open about the situation, appealing to his subjects' better nature. Instead he chose to believe they didn't have one, and murdered people he was supposedly trying to save.
I haven't gotten to the First Ward stuff yet (I just started leveling a Praetorian character for the purpose), but this bit with Katie is pretty bleak and doesn't exactly fill me with confidence. By killing off DeVore (pretty much the Only Sane Woman in the Resistance) and forcing the player to throw Katie to the wolves it sounds like the devs chose to erase anything in the 1-20 material that could be considered a victory. |
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Don't forget that First Ward is just 20-25 - Vanessa doesn't die until 50 - so we don't know what happens to Katie during 25-50.
@Golden Girl
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Actually, it's 20-29 now.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Don't forget that First Ward is just 20-25 - Vanessa doesn't die until 50 - so we don't know what happens to Katie during 25-50.
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Also, I do agree that the story of Praetoria seems to be geared towards becoming bleaker and bleaker, I think the point being driven home is to give heroes, absolute clear conscience to attack the place at higher levels.
But I do give warning to the Devs that if they don't start giving Praetoria some honest-to-god bright spots with no strings attatched, you're going to end up with even Golden Girl wondering why it wouldn't just be better to toss a couple thousand nuclear warheads into Praetoria and call it a day.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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HA!
I knew it.
*feels smug*
Though I gota say, I almost respcet Cole for this. Facing an overwhelming enemy he could have gone down fighting (and taken the world with him), instead he sought peace, he sought a comprimise. Of-course after that he made a real mess of things, but well, there you go.
Also it does make more sense now that there was an army practically ready to go when us primals started showing up. He was preparing for when the truce enevitably failed.
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I don't know if he made a mess per se. The truce was based on the people acting a certain way, and I doubt the people would act the way he needed for the truce to stay in place any other way.|
Originally Posted by Pendix
HA!
I knew it. *feels smug* Though I gota say, I almost respcet Cole for this. Facing an overwhelming enemy he could have gone down fighting (and taken the world with him), instead he sought peace, he sought a comprimise. Of-course after that he made a real mess of things, but well, there you go. Also it does make more sense now that there was an army practically ready to go when us primals started showing up. He was preparing for when the truce enevitably failed. |
Of course I'm sure the power went to his head.
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{five hours later}|
Originally Posted by Venture
So basically they're turning the Darkness Induced Audience Apathy up to 11?
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DAMMIT VENTURE. Don't spring links to that site on unsuspecting audiences!
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After you complete the Underground Trial, Prometheus has more to say about the situation, namely:
1. Yes, Cole convinced Hamidon to give humanity a chance. It's not explained what that meant. Nor does it excuse many of the excesses of the crazy Praetors in order to whip humanity into passing a Hami run costume contest.
2. Primal Earth was going to upset Cole's plans in Praetoria (he assumed), so, he planned to blitz Primal Earth and show Hami he's in charge.
3. Since the blitz didn't work, Hami is irrevocably convinced that humanity is irrevocably worthless and is set on irrevocably destroying humanity.
4. The Well is still indeed using Cole as it's champion and the two are probably interlinked. Champion against what? The Battalion which decimated the Kheldians, sent Shivans as scouts, and is the Coming Storm.
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It's worth quoting that TV Tropes entry at length here as it's all too apposite:|
Originally Posted by Venture
So basically they're turning the Darkness Induced Audience Apathy up to 11?
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Meaningful conflict is the soul of drama. Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy occurs when there is no meaningful conflict in the first place because all sides are abhorrently, equally evil- or at least, far enough gone that any difference between the two is splitting hairs. As such, consumers of media affected by Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy tend to approach conflict between parties or factions with remarkable indifference; because no matter who wins, the universe will still suck. (And while it would be really nice to see them all lose, it ain't going to happen.) In other words, there is nothing at stake.{...} For games, this trope has its advantages. It allows people to choose sides with no interest other than the technical interest of playing one side or the other. Eastern Front games set in World War II are popular among wargamers, partly because there were interesting displays of tactical skill. But partly it was because of Evil Versus Evil and therefore the player could be on either side without feeling awkward. In this situation, the tension is derived not so much from the plot itself ("which side will win?") but rather from the competition between the players. |
Here's hoping that in some future issues the devs will consider allowing players the flexibility to hijack the narrative if they choose. Video games have a unique opportunity to make choice and consequence matter in terms of play style.
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What?
| DAMMIT VENTURE. Don't spring links to that site on unsuspecting audiences! |
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Well, it's not precisely what was expected, I'd say. It completely ruins Tyrant as a villain, though. After all that "he's a threat to the multiverse!" crap, and playing him up as a big guy who's apparently even more evil than Recluse and his ilk...he's just letting himself get pushed around by Hamidon? C'mon, Cole, you better have a decent twist coming. I damn well hope that the next time those two meet, Hami tries some more pushing, and Tyrant's all, like, "Neuron...go ahead and fire the sonic cannon now." And then Tyrant's back in business is villain numero uno again.
I realize that a lot of people don't like the prevalence of evil Coles scattered around the multiverse and whatnot, but I'll take "Tyrant" over "Hamidon's *****" any day.
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True in a sense; once again a prominent villain has been downgraded from Sauron to Starscream.
| Well, it's not precisely what was expected, I'd say. It completely ruins Tyrant as a villain, though. |
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
The Avatar of the Hamidon kills Vanessa DeVore, and Desdemona uses Vanessa's mask to recover the secret she was carrying with her:
Contact with Primal Earth upset the Emperor's plan. His salvation of humanity would be undone, unless he controlled Primal Earth as well.
But the prolonged war rekindled the Hamidon's hatred of humankind, and it is finishing what it began."
@Golden Girl
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