Spoilers for the Underground Trial
By
2short2care,
Posted on: 2011-08-09 20:52 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
They could remove Vanessa for the character who completed the UG, much in the same way Cleo is gone in Pretoria if you choose to kill her. If offered in feedback they may can do it before this issue goes live, I have no clue.
Also, consider that Tyrant could just leave Earth to Hammi if he so choose. In the novels (I think in the game also) he did leave Earth for a while much like Superman did in the comics. Choosing to stay, and attempting to save humanity was heroic, even if he went about it in the wrong way.
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Because Tyrant had already killed Stefan Richter - he was the only Well-drinker left on Praetorian Earth - plus, the Well itself was still "sleeping" at the time - it's only recently "woken up" because of the approach of the Coming Storm.
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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
My point is that if the Hamidon is that much of a threat, why can't the Well take over the ones that have already drunk from it and have them all beat down hami.
It was in response to the idea that Tyrant had to face Hami all by his lonesome. THAT aspect I'm not buying. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Yep, yep. Sorry, I was talking about a sub-conversation in the mix and not the UG.
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Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
Since the Incarnate Trials are just a "raid 'n' upgrade" grind en masse, there's no way for the devs to incorporate the player choices that made the Going Rogue expansion so much more interesting than standard-issue CoH missions.
If the Trials were complemented by some single-player missions or arcs in which characters count make meaningful decisions, the Incarnate content would be much more attractive. Otherwise, the Incarnate path is merely riding a plot on a rail. |
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It might just be the way Golden Girl has worded/written it or whatnot, but this sounds like some lame storyline. Almost makes me want to not run the trial, at all...|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
The Avatar of the Hamidon kills Vanessa DeVore, and Desdemona uses Vanessa's mask to recover the secret she was carrying with her:
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I'm not sure if I can put this out in a clearly understandable way, but DeVore dying 'just like that' is just poor use of a character, in my opinion.
I mean, she has the potential to be such of a great character... nothing like some of the storyline's 'main' characters. (Hello Super Man ripoff and his dozen other dimension selves.)
When Desdemona puts on Vanessa's mask to access it's memories, she says that it feels alive - I think Vanessa's consciousness might make an appearance in the future 
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Given that you can already deliver Vanessa to Mother Mayhem, and doing so doesn't disappear her, and that you can do similar to BV with Chimera, and that both are in the game as trainers rather than contacts...I'm guessing the disappearing contact tech doesn't actually work on them, though it'd be nice, mind you.
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Originally Posted by Zyphoid
They could remove Vanessa for the character who completed the UG, much in the same way Cleo is gone in Pretoria if you choose to kill her. If offered in feedback they may can do it before this issue goes live, I have no clue.
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What makes you think that Praetorian Hamidon is a threat to the Well? I think there was some dev discussion on PraeHami also being an Incarnate.
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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
My point is that if the Hamidon is that much of a threat, why can't the Well take over the ones that have already drunk from it and have them all beat down hami.
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61866 - A Series of Unfortunate Kidnappings - More than a coincidence?
2260 - The Burning of Hearts - A green-eyed monster holds the match.
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Even Sauron was somebody's lackey.
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Originally Posted by Venture
True in a sense; once again a prominent villain has been downgraded from Sauron to Starscream.
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@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
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Originally Posted by Quasadu
Even Sauron was somebody's lackey.
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I think you have Sauron confused with Sarumen
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Sauron was the servant of Morgoth |
Originally Posted by DMystic
I think you have Sauron confused with Sarumen
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Amd now, for your further entertainment, I bring you the latest wacky multiverse gossip from Prometheus 
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The Hamidon is at war with Praetoria once more.
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Now that we have proof? You don't sound like you are surprised.|
"Indeed. That does seem to be the conclusion we can draw from Desdemona's acquisition of the knowledge held in the mask. This information will prove quite... illuminating... to the populace. I do believe that we may have a much simpler time of expelling Cole now that we have proof of his past dealings with the Hamidon." |
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"Surprised? No, no I am not. While I did not know the full details concerning the resolution of the Hamidon Wars, I expected that Cole had in some way negotiated the survival of Praetoria. One does not just "defeat" the Hamidon, especially not Marcus Cole before he became the Well's 'champion'. No. The only way that Cole could have staved off the complete consumption of Praetoria would have been to find some way to convince the Hamidon to stop. In the Well's eyes, such an act is a display of power. Whether by words or force, power over another is appreciated by the Well." |
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"Why? Because Cole believes that Praetoria is at greater risk if he doesn't act. As destructive as The Hamidon and the Devouring Earth were, they unified Praetorian Earth's people into one. He believes that Primal Earth, however, threatens to turn Praetoria on itself and undo everything he has done. He risks all of Praetoria because it is already at great risk from both outside and within. Cole's plans for dominion over Primal Earth played a great role in why he was chosen as 'champion'. The Well shares the same desire as Cole, to expand his empire such that the peoples of two dimensions, if not more, follow his banner. For Cole, it means security and peace for humanity, and he sought to swiftly bring Primal Earth to heel before the Hamidon could take notice. The potential reward he saw in swift action was worth the risk, and he chose accordingly. For the Well, however, Cole's success in conquering Primal Earth would have meant that he would hold sway over two of the strongest dimensions of humanity and become an unparalleled champion. With both worlds under his command he would be well-positioned to face down any future threats to either dimension... and that is what the Well really wants. If we were to fail in deposing Cole, and he successfully completes his conquest, however, he would still be but a single champion. It would be, as humans say, 'putting all the eggs in one basket.'" |
(Prometheus sighs deeply. You can tell that he is struggling with telling you
this.)
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"The Well requires a champion to defend against the force known as Battalion, which you have long heard referenced as 'The Coming Storm'. With the events in Galaxy City upon Primal Earth, the advance scouts of Battalion have made themselves known, and it is only a matter of time before the rest of the force follows. The Battalion is an extraordinarily powerful race which scours the Primal dimension for species who exhibit the hallmarks of great power. Those you know as the Kheldians fell prey to their onslaught, and the Battalion have been doing this for some time. Their sights are now set on humanity, and specifically on the Well." |
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"Well, in a manner of speaking. I knew something of the truth behind Cole's reign, and I knew quite a lot about Cole's role as champion. Cole always intended to, one day, pacify Primal Earth. He has long seen it as a lawless, dangerous dimension that posed a continual threat to the survival of Praetoria. The Well, for its part, was aware of the threat from Battalion, and knew the battle against them would be fought within the Primal dimension. It also knew that Statesman and Lord Recluse desired little to do with it. They would not do as champions. Cole, however, already sought dominion over Primal Earth... a goal in line with its own ends. This led to its choice of Cole as champion. It was, ultimately, a matter of expediency, with the Well reinforcing Cole's already lofty ambitions with the power needed to achieve them. When Cole made the fateful decision to invade Primal Earth, I also knew that this decision would likely place him in quite the precarious position. Though the champion, he would be hard pressed to manage the situation should he need to fend off threats in Praetoria, even possibly the Hamidon, while also conquering the various Earths. So far as I could foresee, the only way he could succeed would be to become ever more dependent upon the Well. I was not about to let such a situation come to pass." |
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"Nonsense. Events in Galaxy City notwithstanding, the Battalion are still moving into place. I am not imperiling anyone. You have seen to that, and you will see to it as you continue dismantling Cole's tyranny. Do you not already see what you are doing? You are defeating Cole and his empowered minions at every turn, and you are doing so with grace and forethought, rather than with blunt force, as Cole does. You are proving your worth with every step. You and your allies, with my help, are becoming the Well's champions. You will be the ones to free Praetoria from the grasp of the Hamidon. You will be the ones to stop Battalion. You will be the ones upon whom all of existence may one day depend. And you will do it all without being under the control of that... that... PUDDLE!" |
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| "I care not what you think of me, because all I am interested in is making sure the right champions are in place when Battalion brings more force to bear than mere scouts. If you have any interest in your own survival, you will see to it that this conflict with Praetoria is resolved in your favor." |
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"You are not in a position to know that, are you? Do not dare to presume you know what my mission is or my motives are. Now, then, I've told you enough. If you wish to discuss anything further, we can discuss the challenges you face in Praetoria." |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
So they're finally using the Battalion...
I gotta admit, im anxious to see who/what they are. They've always been interesting to me since hearing about them, their name evokes a very military culture...but what do we know of THEM really?
They burn kheldians as starship fuel, and apparently they hurl shivans in meteors at planets as a scouting force.
We know they're a big enough threat that future Nemesis went and started mucking about with time.
We know the Well of the Furies is AFRAID of them.
We know the Rikti have had contact with them in their dimension.
Thats all I can recall outside they were originally talked about as being the big incentive for the invention system, that we'd need inventions to be strong enough to actually fight them...thats obviously been upshifted into the Incarnate system.
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"We are Legion."
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Originally Posted by Zenyth
So they're finally using the Battalion...
I gotta admit, im anxious to see who/what they are. They've always been interesting to me since hearing about them, their name evokes a very military culture... |
61866 - A Series of Unfortunate Kidnappings - More than a coincidence?
2260 - The Burning of Hearts - A green-eyed monster holds the match.
379248 - The Spider Without Fangs - NEW - Some lessons learned (more or less.)
Good lord, what a pile-up of plot lines. It's like one of those illl-concieved crossover events between different comics publishers.
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The correct term is "convergence" |
Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
Good lord, what a pile-up of plot lines.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Fixed.
| The correct term is "bloody mess" |
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Don't you like dismantling loyalist tyranny with grace and forethought?
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Wow. I'm surprised so many people saw this coming. I'd assumed from day one that Hamidon was under Tyrant's control, not the other way around.
I'm in the minority of people who loves this turn of events. Tyrant is a political polemic who was already dated before Going Rogue was released. Hamidon is self-absorption and fanaticism made incarnate (incarnate pun- haha!). (Think about how i0 Hamidon treated his "love" in the Terra arc.) I know which one I consider a more apt foe for superhuman, supermoral protagonists.
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Well, Tyrant and the Hamidon have both been set up as very similar right from the start - they're both humans who became monsters for the same reasons - a fear and hatred of humanity|
Originally Posted by Olantern
Wow. I'm surprised so many people saw this coming.
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They also both share the same basic goal - to remove humanity from their world, either by exterminating all humans or by dehumanizing all of them.
The Hamidon's corruption and goals are more physical - it looks like a monster, and physically transforms humans into monsters - while Tyrant's corruption is more internal - he still looks human, and his main goal is to transform the minds of people rather than their bodies.
On Praetorian Earth, it's very easy to see how Marcus Cole and Hamidon Pasalima could have come to an understanding about how to control the human race that they'd both rejected as unfit to continue in a state of freedom.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Darlin, look at his Avatar, the only thing he wants to do to the Loyalist Tyranny is to be in charge of it.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Don't you like dismantling loyalist tyranny with grace and forethought?
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No I don't.
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Originally Posted by DMystic
I think you have Sauron confused with Sarumen
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@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
My impression was that the incursions of Primals into Praetoria was *why* Cole invaded. The conditions of his truce was essentially, that he had to keep humanity in line (stop destroying the environment, etc. etc.) with Primals coming over and stirring up trouble he can no longer do that, which means, from Hami's POV, he's no longer living up to his end of the bargain.
So in Cole tries to blitz Primal earth to bring it back under control before hami goes all "Hey... There's a lot more humans around than it used to, and they'r not keeping their feet off the grass and avoiding littering!" but the primal heroes screwed that part up.
Which means Hami is now going to make a snack out of Praetoria.
"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
I think something's missing.
They had a truce, yet Hamidon was still attacking? Look at First Ward. Attacked by Hamidon.
For having a truce it wasn't much of one.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Hamidon dosen't exactly follow the Geneva protocols on diplomatic relations.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
I think something's missing.
They had a truce, yet Hamidon was still attacking? Look at First Ward. Attacked by Hamidon. For having a truce it wasn't much of one. |
Cole is basically: "Please don't kill all humans!"
Hamidon: "Why not? Human suck, they just mess up the place with nukes and ****."
Cole: "Let me show you that we won't mess stuff up!"
Hamidon: "Okay, but don't mess stuff up OK? You do your thing, but if you mess stuff up It's nom-nom time!"
Cole: "Okay."
Some time later:
Hamidon: "Coooleee, why are you building stuff in my jungle?"
Cole: "I kinda wanted some place to..."
Hamidon: "SURPRISE TENTACLE ****!"
Cole: "Okay, okay, I'll stay out of your place. And shoot anyone who gets in there. That's OK?"
Hamidon: "I'm so glad weunderstand each other."
Even later:
Hamidon: "WHo are all these people crawling acros my planet? Where are they COMING from, and why isn't Cole doing his job?"
Cole: "Uh... I was kind of trying to fix that, they're y'know coming over and..."
Hamidon: "NO EXCUSES!"
"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
It was in response to the idea that Tyrant had to face Hami all by his lonesome. THAT aspect I'm not buying.
I don't think Tyrant had to face him alone, I think everyone else likely felt they were useless to do anything.
They've been fighting him as a group (no solid leaders for a large scale group mind you) without a powerlevel of Tyrant's level for quite awhile, and losing.
At that point they might have just given up.
Or it may just have been unable to gather everyone for the final assault. Or Praetoria may have just had a lot of weak super powers, except for the few Praetors.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection