No Borg In Star Trek Sequel. Will it be Kahn?
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2011-08-08 08:53 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
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(shrug) You're not a Romulan.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
If I'm on a ship that goes back in time and my skipper starts acting nutty as a fruitcake he's gonna find himself taking a permanent dirt nap.
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Lens flares are a tool. They can add emphasis during an action sequence. Abrams uses them all the time. It's like how Zack Snyder abuses slow motion and Michael Bay blows stuff and Tony Scott uses colored filters. It's painful after a while. Know how those kids always write things with alternating upper and lowercase? tHaT's WhAt WaTcHiNg OnE oF ThEsE mOvIeS iS lIkE aLl ThE fReAkInG tImE.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I think I'm the only person on the planet that wasn't bothered by the lens flares.
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After a while you just want to slap them.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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No it's not. It's like complaining about food poisoning at Benihana's.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I wasn't really bothered by the lens flare either. Complaining about the exaggerated lens flare in a JJ Abrams movie is like complaining about the exaggerated make up in Kabuki theater.
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You know, legitimate, but what did you expect from a crappy place like that?
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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I didn't really notice them when I saw the movie in the theatre. But there was a special about the making of the movie either on TV or on the DVD extras that went into the lighting effects. In it they deconstructed some shots in multiple layers and they looked a million times better *with* the lens flares and other lighting effects layered in.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I think I'm the only person on the planet that wasn't bothered by the lens flares.
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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Up. Blows stuff up.|
Originally Posted by Ironik
It's like how... Michael Bay blows stuff and
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For the love of God, Montresor.
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Originally Posted by Lothic
Well at least when you mix Star Trek, time travel and Abrams at any rate.
 Yes I was also one of the few who liked how ENT handled the tensions of the original Federation founder races learning the get along with each other. I also loved their "Mirror, Mirror" episodes. Beyond that it's shame they only managed to produce about a season's worth of good episodes. |
Idea for how Enterprise should have ended:
With Dr. Beckett leaping out of Captain Archer. Into Col. Tigh, just after Boomer shot Adama.
Oh boy.
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In certain strict caste societies, the captain/crew relationship tends to border on captor/hostage in terms of psychology. Even in a nonmilitary working ship, an extended voyage can lead to some really funky attitudes when all your societal rules and upbringing center on accepting authority.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I'm not buying that his entire crew would blindly follow his insane orders. If I'm on a ship that goes back in time and my skipper starts acting nutty as a fruitcake he's gonna find himself taking a permanent dirt nap.
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Don't think of a Romulan crew as you would a crew on an American vessel with American ideals and norms. Think of them more like a Japanese crew in WWII, which would put them at the borderline fanatic position on the spectrum. While Vulcans curbed their raw violent tendencies through analysis and logic, I get the impression that most Romulan societies did it by instilling strict discipline and obedience. In Trek Romulans are seen as warlike, but not barbarically so.
Besides, we don't really know how different Nero before the destruction was from Nero after. Nor do we know precisely how much information the crew had been given. Given all these things as a baseline, it's actually pretty easy to think that a crew would have absolute faith in their captain and follow his orders.
On top of all that, we as viewers tend to develop a pretty jaded view of time travel when watching Star Trek, and it's easy to forget that to the universe at large, it is considered impossible, or at least wildly misunderstood. A Romulan miner doesn't have the level of intellect or training to wrap their head around things the same way a fully trained Vulcan Science Officer with top security clearance would.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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Real world paradigms aside, I always tended to see the way Starfleet handled things to be somewhat similar to Ender's Game. Everyone is given the same initial training, then tracked into whichever advanced program their talents show they belong. Often with those steps happening simultaneously or even in reverse (Bones being a doctor before he joined, and presumably getting basic training at the same time he was learning everything a fleet medical officer needs to know).|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
So it's possible Kirk could have been made captain of a much smaller vessel like a corvette or patrol ship right out of Starfleet Acadamy but a cruiser like the Enterprise? Total BS.
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Engineering
Science
Command
I got no issues with them rapidly advancing the Command school grads they've been grooming for the chair, and I consider Kirk's promotion to be in essence a battlefield commission. His Academy training virtually guaranteed he'd end up there eventually, and exigent circumstances and meritorious service both meant skipping steps was a valid call.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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Absolutely. Star Trek IV was like watching a preachy Save the Whales romantic comedy. Crazy vulcan seeking trapped, god-like being at the center of the galaxy (as I vaguely recall the plot) was like watching a fantasy B-movie through a sci-fi lens. I'll take the latter any day of the week.
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Originally Posted by Lord_Nightblade
Really? The whales bother you more than God needing a starship?
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
I kind of phased out part way into this thread, but he's my prediction:
Harcourt Fenton Mudd.
Played by that guy from Heroes, the one who was Matt Parkman.
(He wants to play him, and is a friend of JJ Abrams).
Harry Mudd comes across a derelict ship. The Botany Bay. Finding it full of frozen genetic superhumans he sells them to the Borg. The borg assimilate Kahn and his followers, creating a new race of super-borg, who take over the collective. The super-borg steel the genesis device and set out to use it on Earth. Kirk shouts "Borgggggggggggg-Kaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahn".
Yes, I can write like JJ Abrams!
I really should do something about this signature.
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That would be the intelligent thing to do, and since the writers are not that imaginative, they went with what little "plot" (if you can call it that) they came up with.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
The thing that bugged me about the film was already mentioned by someone else. Why didn't that stupid Romulan take his damn ship to Romulus and
A. Warn them about the supernova. and B. Give them a huge leap forward in technology. Even if the darn thing is just a mining ship there's a lot of stuff that's far in advance of what the Romulans currently had. |
Shard Warrior - 50 MA/Regen/BM Scrapper
Founding Member and Leader : Shadow-Force
Co-Leader: Council of Heroes
"Whatever evils come this way... we will be there to stop them."
A few thoughts:
On lens flares - they didn't bother me either. In fact, like a previous poster mentioned, I didn't even notice them. It was the same with the shakey-cam in Blair Witch Project. Now I was bothered a bit by the shakey-cam in Cloverfield, but I think it was much more pronounced in that movie.
On money in the Star Trek future - In "First Contact" the Lily character says to Picard, "Oh, what, now you're going to tell me that money doesn't exist in the future?" To which Picard replies, "Well, it doesn't. We don't work for material gain, but rather to better ourselves." I'm paraphrasing of course, and I guess it could be argued that money still existed in the Pike era.
On Kirk's rapid promotion - There have been lots of arguements about how it's not completely unprecendented and how it could make sense from a certain point of view, but the simple fact of the matter is, it was totally unnecessary. As I said in an earlier post, just give Kirk the position of XO or something at the end of the first movie, and then make him Captain (in rank as well as title) in the second movie. You could even include a prologue in the second movie that shows how he achieved command if you want.
Somebody brought up Star Wars, but for all of Luke Skywalker's heroism at the end of "A New Hope," he wasn't declared a Jedi Master and given command of a Rebel Alliance star ship. In "Empire Strikes Back," he's shown to be a captain, and the leader of Rogue Squadron (I think), but ESB takes place a couple years after ANH, so he had time to earn that position. And they could've easily done the same with Kirk instead of that insta-promotion tomfoolery.
(Sometimes, I wish there could be a Dev thumbs up button for quality posts, because you pretty much nailed it.) -- Ghost Falcon
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That's what you think.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
(shrug) You're not a Romulan.
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Your looking at the wrong characters. It was Han Solo and Lando Calrissian that were given instant promotions to General in Return of the Jedi.|
Originally Posted by mousedroid
Somebody brought up Star Wars, but for all of Luke Skywalker's heroism at the end of "A New Hope," he wasn't declared a Jedi Master and given command of a Rebel Alliance star ship. In "Empire Strikes Back," he's shown to be a captain, and the leader of Rogue Squadron (I think), but ESB takes place a couple years after ANH, so he had time to earn that position. And they could've easily done the same with Kirk instead of that insta-promotion tomfoolery.
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Admiral Ackbar: We have no choice, General Calrissian! Our cruisers can't repel firepower of that magnitude!
C-3PO: I beg your pardon General Solo, but that just wouldn't be proper.
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ROFL|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
Up. Blows stuff up.
For the love of God, Montresor. |
Okay, now that was a funny word to leave out. I should post in the middle of the night more often!
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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Dang... I would watch that movie so often the print would wear out.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Harry Mudd comes across a derelict ship. The Botany Bay. Finding it full of frozen genetic superhumans he sells them to the Borg. The borg assimilate Kahn and his followers, creating a new race of super-borg, who take over the collective. The super-borg steel the genesis device and set out to use it on Earth. Kirk shouts "Borgggggggggggg-Kaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahn".
Yes, I can write like JJ Abrams! |
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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Which they stole wholesale from Star Trek: Nemesis. They threw in time travel as their "clever" twist.
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Originally Posted by Shard_Warrior
That would be the intelligent thing to do, and since the writers are not that imaginative, they went with what little "plot" (if you can call it that) they came up with.
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The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
Every time someone mentions Star Trek and Time Travel in the same sentence, an Orion Slave Girl dies.
Dang!
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
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Something we can all agree on.
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Originally Posted by Ironik
Michael Bay blows
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I didn't notice them at all seeing the movie in the theater.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I think I'm the only person on the planet that wasn't bothered by the lens flares.
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Then I read a forum thread mentioning the lens flares (probably here), and because of that, when I got the blu-ray I noticed them, and they drive me crazy now.
@Doctor Gemini
Arc #271637 - Welcome to M.A.G.I. - An alternative first story arc for magic origin heroes. At Hero Registration you heard the jokes about Azuria always losing things. When she loses the entire M.A.G.I. vault, you are chosen to find it.
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I've heard a couple people say they didn't notice them, which strikes me as odd, because they are EVERYwhere. I mean, during a massive space battle, I get it, but during breakfast? Bleh. In some shots they actually obscure the action. Maybe persistence of vision is working on more than one level in this case.
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Originally Posted by Doctor_Gemini
I didn't notice them at all seeing the movie in the theater.
Then I read a forum thread mentioning the lens flares (probably here), and because of that, when I got the blu-ray I noticed them, and they drive me crazy now. |
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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This is not something that is overdone in his "Star Trek (in name only)" film either. Even J.J. Abrams has admitted to his overuse of lens flares in his films. Oh, and lol.
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Originally Posted by Ironik
I've heard a couple people say they didn't notice them, which strikes me as odd, because they are EVERYwhere.
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Shard Warrior - 50 MA/Regen/BM Scrapper
Founding Member and Leader : Shadow-Force
Co-Leader: Council of Heroes
"Whatever evils come this way... we will be there to stop them."
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Harry Mudd comes across a derelict ship. The Botany Bay. Finding it full of frozen genetic superhumans he sells them to the Borg. The borg assimilate Kahn and his followers, creating a new race of super-borg, who take over the collective. The super-borg steel the genesis device and set out to use it on Earth. Kirk shouts "Borgggggggggggg-Kaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahn".
Yes, I can write like JJ Abrams! |
Yeah, but then we have to think about what the Borg are like after assimilating Mudd. Now that is just creepy.
/re-lurk
I'm not buying that his entire crew would blindly follow his insane orders. If I'm on a ship that goes back in time and my skipper starts acting nutty as a fruitcake he's gonna find himself taking a permanent dirt nap.