it cant be said too many times: Keyes Island feedback
By
Abraxxus,
Posted on: 2011-08-07 14:00 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Quote:
Do you have that same problem with being 100ft away from someone not yelling untill the very end, but rather just having a conversation with each other on the ITF?|
Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
I have run this thing three times: one failure, two successes. Yet I cannot help but feel that this is the trial I hate the most. In fact, it is the only trial I actually hate. BAF is fun and easy, Lambda is less fun - not least due to the kick-off-the-server bug it seems to have built-in, destroying my chance for a good reward - but Keyes? Keyes is massive fail, on so many levels.
BAF: easy to get a sense of whats going on. Lambda: Same. Keyes: What are we doing? Why are we here? Antimatter delivers an insane rant from atop a reactor - and amazing how we can hear what he's saying from 100 ft away, down on the ground - and then its what do we do, where and when? People run willy-nilly as if fleeing the Martian death-machines on War of the Worlds. I was on one today where as people were being held, disintergrated, alpha- and beta-held or whatever, and green-light-pulsed to death - ALL AT THE SAME TIME, mind you -, some maroon was going on about "this is the easiest trial ever, I love it." Drugs are bad, mmmm-kay? What is someone smoking, to be able to make a comment like that? Also see: Cut-scene immediately upon zoning, one of the worst decisions this game has yet made, zone-in cutscenes are just horrible. This trial is awful. If you love it good on you, but all three times I have run it, at least half the league swears to never do it again. I think this time, I'm one of them. |
How about everyone is in the building just taken out weapon caches and containment cells, and can hear Maurader talking to himself?
Come on now, that little pet peeve is a bit laughable. Nevermind the one with Mother Mayhem having a talk with Seige and Nightstar totally away from you.
As for Keyes, you know, still not 100% on that iTrial, but it's not that bad imo. Maybe it's just to hard for you to grasp? If that's the case, just continue to run Lam and Baf and skip Keyes.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Heaven forbid a trial require more of you than to stand in one place and push buttons.
Keyes is my favorite trial, because it takes some thinking.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
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This. Yes the damage pulse can be difficult to deal with at times that's why I fill my entire tray with nothing but greens and have rebirth as my destiny on that trial.
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Originally Posted by Vanden
Heaven forbid a trial require more of you than to stand in one place and push buttons.
Keyes is my favorite trial, because it takes some thinking. |
I'll always be a "Champion" at heart. My server away from home.
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"With great moustache comes great responsibility" - Zee Captain
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In order to use strategy, i.e. "think," its necessary to know what is going on. On the three KI trials I have run, few people if any seem to know what's going on, or which reactor we should be at, or what level of the reactor is everyone ON, etc. One just tries to stay with everyone else and do what they're doing. This is neither enjoyable or strategically a good thing. It fosters neither cooperation or strategic thought. |
Originally Posted by Vanden
Heaven forbid a trial require more of you than to stand in one place and push buttons.
Keyes is my favorite trial, because it takes some thinking. |
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| someone else: Do you have that same problem with being 100ft away from someone not yelling untill the very end, but rather just having a conversation with each other on the ITF? |
And actually I think Antimatter is further away than 100 ft.... I never said his shouting at us from however far away is a "pet peeve," its just immersion-breaking and not very credible. Last time I checked none of my characrters had super-hearing.
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| Maybe it's just to hard for you to grasp? |
I'd take that more seriously were it not for half the league saying the same thing, re how unpleasant this trial is.
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Have you tried asking? I'd be happy to explain the trial to you. There's also the strategy page for the trial on the Wiki.
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Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
In order to use strategy, i.e. "think," its necessary to know what is going on. On the three KI trials I have run, few people if any seem to know what's going on, or which reactor we should be at, or what level of the reactor is everyone ON, etc. One just tries to stay with everyone else and do what they're doing. This is neither enjoyable or strategically a good thing. It fosters neither cooperation or strategic thought.
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Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
Comic book MMOs, super serious business!
I'll always be a "Champion" at heart. My server away from home.
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"With great moustache comes great responsibility" - Zee Captain
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I love a challenge, harder the better....now and again, like a long tf...|
Originally Posted by Vanden
Heaven forbid a trial require more of you than to stand in one place and push buttons.
Keyes is my favorite trial, because it takes some thinking. |
The nature of these, for drops..and the grinding aspect of it, take away any joy in them.
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Was this, perhaps, on Virtue? I did a trial there earlier that was shooting for a few badges and, while those attempts failed, the rest of the trial completed fairly successfully. Someone made a similar comment about success towards the end. Honestly, each Keyes I've been on seems a little better than the previous run. It's just as the other two trials. People will learn the encounter.
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Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
I was on one today where as people were being held, disintergrated, alpha- and beta-held or whatever, and green-light-pulsed to death - ALL AT THE SAME TIME, mind you -, some maroon was going on about "this is the easiest trial ever, I love it." Drugs are bad, mmmm-kay? What is someone smoking, to be able to make a comment like that?
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It's a supervillain inherent power |
Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
Why are we here? Antimatter delivers an insane rant from atop a reactor - and amazing how we can hear what he's saying from 100 ft away, down on the ground
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Eh, keyes just needs the kinks worked out of it. The reactor phases can get confusing, the some of Antimatters powers are basically just there for show and luck (avoid the green stuff with his time stop.. yeah.. cuz thats not based entirely on luck or anything)
but for my main AT (mastermind) Keyes is by far the easiest. so many things in that trial cater to the pros of MM and very few things really take advantage of the cons. Yes, the IDF are kinda mean, but really nothing that can't be handled, and even with the wonky AI you can control your pets enough to ignore Antimatter, and allow you to soak both the pulses and the disntigrations at the same time.
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Have the tanker (or whoever's annoying AM the most) drag Antimatter to the NW, then SE then SW drawdown terminal areas in that order. The closer he is to the regen area when he freezes time, the quicker he gets there and unfreezes time, and the less time you're unable to avoid any potential Obliteration Beams while Frozen.
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Originally Posted by Arbegla
(avoid the green stuff with his time stop.. yeah.. cuz thats not based entirely on luck or anything)
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Warning:
The above post may contain Cynicism, sarcasm and/or pessimism. If you object to the quantities contained, then tough.
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It has been talked about on a private channel which gets a lot of action that people don't run it because it's far easier to do speed versions of BAF and Lambda. Since people are less willing to do Keys, less people know how to deal with it. I have yet to do it and I haven't gotten much urge to do it. I do maybe one BAF/Lam combo a week, or two. So far it looks like Keys is the odd person out in terms of trials among the player base.
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Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
This trial is awful. If you love it good on you, but all three times I have run it, at least half the league swears to never do it again. I think this time, I'm one of them.
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Th new Underground Trial in I21 has been described by the devs as a "good old-fashioned dungeon crawl" - maybe that will be more to your liking?
Although it does have an escort bit, where you have to keep Desdemona alive - not sure is she has her aggroing pets with her or not though
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Commenting on the forums of a comic book MMOs of how trivial a debate is, super duper serious business!
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Originally Posted by Horusaurus
Comic book MMOs, super serious business!
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Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
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The most serious! You have no idea. If I hadn't intervened who knows what might've happened.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Commenting on the forums of a comic book MMOs of how trivial a debate is, super duper serious business!
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I'll always be a "Champion" at heart. My server away from home.
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"With great moustache comes great responsibility" - Zee Captain
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From your posts, I'd say the problem is with the people, not the trial. As others have remarked, once you "know" how it works, it's fairly easy to get through. Badge work IS harder, yes, but it's a bloody knuckle scenario for only two of them. On a non-badge run, with people who know their stuff, my best time so far has been 22 minutes. That's not much longer than a Lambda, and the Lambda isn't much longer than a BAF.|
Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
In order to use strategy, i.e. "think," its necessary to know what is going on. On the three KI trials I have run, few people if any seem to know what's going on, or which reactor we should be at, or what level of the reactor is everyone ON, etc. One just tries to stay with everyone else and do what they're doing. This is neither enjoyable or strategically a good thing. It fosters neither cooperation or strategic thought.
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Have you considered setting up training runs, led by people know either are experienced with the trial mechanics, or honestly just know how to read a Wiki page? I'll be hosting one for Freedom this week in Praetoria (the geography is identical to the trial, including the bunker doors). It's a great way for people to learn the run in a non-panic environment, so they're not slowing everyone down by asking constantly, "OMW WHAT DO I DO NOW WHY AM I HURT OMG OMG OMG".
If you're on Freedom, watch the forum, that invite will go up probably tonight. It's about time players broke out of their comfort zone. This is your opportunity.
@TURGENEV - Freedom Server / IRON / B.A.N.E / HORDE
Turg Fiction: Ghost in the Machine Acts III & IV coming 2012!
Turg Fiction: IX is now LIVE on Architect Entertainment!
I find Keyes quite fun and its pretty simple to grasp
Each reactor you have to shut off the 10 consoles, how you get the temp powers to do it does vary between the reactors, but at its heart that's the essence of the trial
Shut the three reactors down, then the big fight versus AM as a finale.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
The end battle is actually the most interesting part of the thing. I enjoy the final fight.
It's doing fundamentally the same thing on 3 different towers that is the pain, and the reason most people I know swear not to run it. You'd think the devs would have learned that repetition of the same task 3 times in the same trial is boring after all the feedback they got on Hami 2.0. I get that they tried, but the minor variations are just that, minor.
Edit to add- the final battle is no more complicated than dealing with the other two trials, once you understand it. I think the biggest issue with the AM fight is the graphical clutter, and the lack of obvious ways to deal with each ability. Really there's only 3 things to keep track of though. No more complicated than the Marauder fight or the Siege NS fight.
Edit to add to the edit- Truth be told, I find this trial much easier with 16. I think most of the confusion the OP feels stems from too many chickens running in too many directions. It's a lot easier to keep 10ish people clusters while a run out to complete tasks, or to move from spot to spot as a group, when there's only 16.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
It's a supervillain inherent power
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Inherent nothing. The man is wearing sealed power armor. A public address system (microphone inside, hooked to amplified speakers outside) would be the only way to hear him speak at all...cranking up the volume past conversational levels should be a fairly easy task, even for him, to accomplish, i would think.
Furio--Lvl 50+3 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster, Virtue
Megadeth--Lvl 50+3 Necro/DM/Soul MM, Virtue
Veriandros--Lvl 50+3 Crab Soldier, Virtue
"So come and get me! I'll be waiting for ye, with a whiff of the old brimstone. I'm a grim bloody fable, with an unhappy bloody end!" Demoman, TF2
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
Keyes: What are we doing? Why are we here? Antimatter delivers an insane rant from atop a reactor - and amazing how we can hear what he's saying from 100 ft away, down on the ground
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
It's a supervillain inherent power
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Before you irradiate them into pea soup.
@TURGENEV - Freedom Server / IRON / B.A.N.E / HORDE
Turg Fiction: Ghost in the Machine Acts III & IV coming 2012!
Turg Fiction: IX is now LIVE on Architect Entertainment!
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Funny thing is he spent more on the sound system than he did on the reactors. Nothing is more important than a great monologue.
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Originally Posted by Turgenev
Didn't you read the FAQ? Anti-Matter installed Bose® Articulated Array speakers all over the Reactor grounds. When he speaks, you hear his dulcet tones in rich, consistently tonal balance, all thanks to 24 small drivers arranged in the perfect aural geometry to wow your audience.
Before you irradiate them into pea soup. |
I'll always be a "Champion" at heart. My server away from home.
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"With great moustache comes great responsibility" - Zee Captain
My issue with Keyes is that the mechanics make it unfun.
Im fine with the mobs, and Im fine with the mission.
The pulse reduces all but the melee non squishies to nothing but eating greens until you eventually run out and end up in the hospital anyhow.
People will argue with me I am sure, but everytime I do a Keyes half of the team quits anyhow so there is really no reason to ever do one.
~Stalkers lose stealth
~Doms depending on how they build will lose half health per pulse
~Controllers (Same as Dom really)
~Defenders (Healers can be and make the end easy...if they make it to the end)
~MM's Why bother!
~Corrs (Same as Defs)
~Blasters are used to death and don't complain as much
This really just means Scrappers/Brutes/Tanks are the only ones not really complaining about this trial
It's just unfun!
Im sure now the Power Pack of Fan Chicks are gonna eat me alive...but then again this is my observation, and Im rarely daunted by things that are challenging.
Antimatter:...And you'll never be able to get all of the power cores and shut down my reactors in quick succession, THEN fight me at the truck depot while dodging an orbital ray and screaming when you get disintegrated! It'll never work! I'm a genious!
In all seriousness, I'm sure the godvoice that follows you around during the iTrials would be able to explain what is happening. In fact, it DOES. AT EVERY REACTOR. Learn to read. It's not a hard trial.
@Leetdeth - Virtue | MA Arcs(all challenge arcs): Big Magic Blowout! #369774 | Who Really Cares About This? Z! #509577 | That Meddling King! (teams recommended) #21450
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Based on other encounters with her in game, she is an aggroing pet, never mind her summons.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Although it does have an escort bit, where you have to keep Desdemona alive - not sure is she has her aggroing pets with her or not though
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
I have run this thing three times: one failure, two successes. Yet I cannot help but feel that this is the trial I hate the most. In fact, it is the only trial I actually hate. BAF is fun and easy, Lambda is less fun - not least due to the kick-off-the-server bug it seems to have built-in, destroying my chance for a good reward - but Keyes? Keyes is massive fail, on so many levels.
BAF: easy to get a sense of whats going on.
Lambda: Same.
Keyes: What are we doing? Why are we here? Antimatter delivers an insane rant from atop a reactor - and amazing how we can hear what he's saying from 100 ft away, down on the ground - and then its what do we do, where and when? People run willy-nilly as if fleeing the Martian death-machines on War of the Worlds.
I was on one today where as people were being held, disintergrated, alpha- and beta-held or whatever, and green-light-pulsed to death - ALL AT THE SAME TIME, mind you -, some maroon was going on about "this is the easiest trial ever, I love it." Drugs are bad, mmmm-kay? What is someone smoking, to be able to make a comment like that?
Also see: Cut-scene immediately upon zoning, one of the worst decisions this game has yet made, zone-in cutscenes are just horrible.
This trial is awful. If you love it good on you, but all three times I have run it, at least half the league swears to never do it again. I think this time, I'm one of them.