Art Poll: Signature Characters
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2011-08-01 13:23 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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That is pretty bad for Harley but look at how they destroyed supergirl. Looks like shes wearing a toddlers swimsuit. Ofcourse they have been destroying her for last couple years with all the remakes they keep doing. The new line of dc costumes are so terrible I don't think I'll be reading anymore DC comics.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Agreed! Don't turn any of them into jeans and a shirt wearing superheroes. Boring and lame!
And don't make any radical changes like Harley Quinn! I love the new look. I just don't love it for Harley Quinn! Though radical changes to Sister Psyche and Swan I can probably overlook. Sister Psyche's outfit in game just doesn't look great like it can in the comics. And Swan...she just just looks freaky. |
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You know what I want? You know what I REALLY want? I want every signature hero/villain to have "Off the Clock" outfits as well as costumes, like Tyrant. Seriously.
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The Good:
I am a big fan of several NPC's. I like Statesman's look as an iconic character, though I'd change his faceplate to a full helmet.
BaB's has a good look too.
I like Lord Recluse's look. He's EXACTLY what a villainous leader of Arachnos should look like.
I like the 'piecemiel' characters. That is Dr. Vhazilok, Wretch, Clockwork King, and Noble Savage. They all seem unique and interesting.
War Witch: Call me crazy, but I really like War Witch's design, and I want that hair style/pattern in the Costume Creator!!!
The Bad:
Swan. I mean - really? This is what a heroine really wears?
Valkyrie: Seriously in need of an update.
Coyote: Honestly, he needs more of a classic aboriginal-style costume, and since Outbreak is going to be gone, he can move somewhere else and look cool there 
The Ugly:
Citadel: Wow does he need a re-make. Bad.
However, one character stands head and shoulders above all others in appearance:
Ghost Widow. I mean, WOW. Sinister, Evil, Sexy as Hell, all rolled into one delightfully hateful package.
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Given the character's history, I think it's a safe bet (at least I'm hoping) that Coyote wouldn't be changed much other than to possibly make a high-res version if they're actually moving him somewhere else.
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Originally Posted by Gothenem
Coyote: Honestly, he needs more of a classic aboriginal-style costume, and since Outbreak is going to be gone, he can move somewhere else and look cool there
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I think it sounds awesome. This is the kind of graphical update I'd like to see. My apologies for assuming it would be a radical redesign instead of improvements to the existing concept to make it seem more alive.
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Originally Posted by Noble Savage
For me, changes like these would simply be polish on the core experience, deepening the encounter's sense of immersion and realism and keeping the art fresh and modern. This is a living game after all, and ideally we want the graphics to impress both new players that decide to try us out for the first time while simultaneously keeping things fresh for the veterans. I don't think any of the hypothetical updates listed above would harm the Hamidon experience. In fact, I think they could take what's already cool and make it way, way cooler. What do you think?
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Wow this thread got long in a short amount of time. I'm sure they've been mentioned by now but Mirror Spirit and Foreshadow have excellent looks to them. I'm so jealous of a lot of MS's costume bits.
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Actually, the competition has NPCs that stand around, and then take off and fight when enemies get nearby, and you can't talk to them as contacts when they do.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Sorry for the shotgun replies
This something I find to be a BIG failing of the game's theme, and is something sort of inherent in MMOs in general - everyone always stands around doing nothing. I get that technical limitations mean we can't expect our contacts to move around, OK, I get that. But can't we put them in more appropriate places just the same? Take, for instance, Efficiency Expert Pyther - why is he standing on a terrace with a Bane Spider welding ten feet from him? How is it efficient to conduct your business outdoors and away from all forms of communication? Wouldn't it make sense for him to be inside an office? Or how about Peter Thermai? He even talks about "his office," so why is he never in said office? Harvey Maylor runs a newspaper, so where is his Jay Jonah Jameson's office? Or how about the fat afro white boy in Independence Port. He's supposed to be a weapons dealer and manufacturer, so why isn't he in a machine shop, or a lab? He's standing in front of a warehouse, supposedly housing weapons, so why couldn't he be INSIDE it? Or how about Dr. Steven "Science" Sheridan? What the blue balls is he doing next to a hazard zone checkpoint, back up against a fence next to the hospital? He's not a medical doctor. Wouldn't he have a lab set up where he works IN THE NAME OF SCIENCE? And why is Crimson standing under a giant statue's crotch? How did he get out to that little island outcrop without getting that ridiculously obvious red suit of his wet? Shouldn't we be meeting on a park bench or in a crowded restaurant or somewhere a little less conspicuous? That damn red suit alone on that little island within line of sight of the ferry is like a lighthouse in the night. I would honestly love to see most contacts move either indoors in their own places of business or dwelling, or otherwise moved to places that make sense. |
So I wouldn't say it's an MMO limitation.
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Sigh. Those other looks aren't bad in and of themselves, but I cringe every time a female character is "reimagined" with more cleavage and less pants. If all this game's female signature characters start going the way of Boobcat I'm going to complain a lot. It's pretty much to be expected from mainstream comics, but would be a huge step backwards for this game.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
And, yes, Harley does look a little too TnA service there. But her Arkham Asylum and Arkham City looks? Fits fine IMO.
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Originally Posted by Angelxman81
I think the Valkyrie armor is perfect for, you know a Valkyrie
 Matter of tastes... |
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All of those ideas sound excellent, David. (Primal) Hamidon is perhaps my favorite villain in the game, a man so selfish and fanatical he has decided that all life on earth should be either part of him or destroyed. It's important to remember that he's not just a mindless engine of destruction; he's portrayed consistently as having a malign, sociopathic intelligence. (I find him far more interesting on a conceptual level than Praetorian Hamidon, who does seem like "just a monster" and is more or less a story prop for Tyrant. I assume the "big reveal" about the Praetorian DE will be that Tyrant created the lot of them.) Hamidon epitomizes a theme I wish we saw more in comics,* "becoming your ideal means becoming a monster." His design should reflect his fanaticism, his contempt for others, and his inhumanity. It should look not only monstrous, but evil as well. In order to do that, it needs to do more than simply sit there.|
Originally Posted by Noble Savage
Just for fun, let me run some hypothetical update ideas past you and see what you think. As a thought experiment only, let's say we were going to update the primal Hamidon model. Again, absolutely no plans for this, but it's an interesting topic to think about. You've expressed a desire to maintain the character's "amoeba-ness," and I whole-heartedly agree with you. That said, there are ways we could potentially make him more visually interesting while staying completely faithful to the character concept.
[specific ideas redacted] |
* We get plenty of "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" (Praetoria is just one of many examples in today's pop literature), but the only example of what I mentioned that I can think of offhand is the story of The Radical in the recent Wild Cards books.
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Originally Posted by Noble Savage
Absolutely critical that it runs smoothly. I'm not a 3D artist, but I'm quite confident in the current team's ability to pull it off, especially considering that they just accomplished something similar with the Seed zone event. That character model is quite detailed and enormous, with several animated parts, a flight path, and multiple targets, all while flying over the the most detailed and modern zone in the game.
Well, in the event that we actually did update this raid, that's where the Design folks would come in. I'm sure they'd have just as many ideas about how to enhance that side of the encounter. |
What if graphic settings were reduced in some way for EVERYONE who entered the mitochondrial ooze to fight him? I can't imagine you'd see too clearly inside a single celled organism, and performance might be improved as a result? Maybe?
I'm not talking about forcing everyone to minimum settings, but rather decreasing the distance a player can see fairly drastically and thereby reducing the number of objects processors are required to render. Keep the high settings on things that are close, but make farther away objects harder to see. Like Dark Astoria.
In other words, make Hamidon more opaque, to the extent that he's translucent, vise transparent as he is now.
Plus, it would make the shadowed bodies and debris you were proposing even MORE eerie.
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In some cases, I don't think it's a problem to make signature characters out of CC parts. Valkyrie's a good example--her concept is that she's an armor-clad warrior with a mythical flavor, and you've done an excellent job showing how it could be done using "off the shelf" parts. And as new options (like Ascension and Celestial Armor for example) continue to come online, it's increasingly doable. I'd use the highres wings instead, but otherwise, I dig what you've done here. |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Except Battlemaiden looks blocky and ugly. She is, frankly, puke coloured. And these signature characters should be signature. Not something you can instantly replicate in CC.
Here's the redesign in a thread of the same name I made a while back;  |
But if a character's core concept requires something we simply COULDN'T make in the CC, then yes--of course it should be built from scratch. As with everything, it's always a question of resources. Where is the team's time better spent: on a signature character or on a new costume set for you guys? In general, I think fans are happier when we go with the latter more often than not, but obviously we're still making plenty of from-scratch signatures too. It's just a matter of finding the perfect ratio.
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As much as I can appreciate what Techbot was going for, to me his redesign is a bit too cluttered with bulky, stylistically mismatched parts. Plus the "Iron beard" look is really unbecoming of Valkyrie. |
Originally Posted by Noble Savage
In some cases, I don't think it's a problem to make signature characters out of CC parts. Valkyrie's a good example--her concept is that she's an armor-clad warrior with a mythical flavor, and you've done an excellent job showing how it could be done using "off the shelf" parts. And as new options (like Ascension and Celestial Armor for example) continue to come online, it's increasingly doable. I'd use the highres wings instead, but otherwise, I dig what you've done here.
But if a character's core concept requires something we simply COULDN'T make in the CC, then yes--of course it should be built from scratch. As with everything, it's always a question of resources. Where is the team's time better spent: on a signature character or on a new costume set for you guys? In general, I think fans are happier when we go with the latter more often than not, but obviously we're still making plenty of from-scratch signatures too. It's just a matter of finding the perfect ratio. |
Val has nanite powered armour, which implies that the subcomponents can be constructed at the atomic level, therefore negating the need for blocky, more angular parts in favour of a sleeker and perhaps more practical design. My redesign brings her more in line with Battle Maiden in terms of appearance, yet keeps her signature golden hue. The Alpha pieces imply a hi-tech underlay for the Norse inspired Valk armour. I used the old headband wings as they (as their name implies) have the headband.
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While I can see your point about mismatched parts, honestly, I prefer Techbot's version. I know nanites mean the armor could be smooth, but Valkyrie has always looked techy, and she should continue to look that way. It's part of her identity. Overuse of the valkyrie parts just make her look like a generic valkyrie.
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True, she should reflect her origin and look techy, but there's hi-tech, lo-tech and then there's the current Valkyrie which looks more like a cheap halloween costume than battle armour. |
Originally Posted by Liquid
While I can see your point about mismatched parts, honestly, I prefer Techbot's version. I know nanites mean the armor could be smooth, but Valkyrie has always looked techy, and she should continue to look that way. It's part of her identity. Overuse of the valkyrie parts just make her look like a generic valkyrie.
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Perhaps she can keep the Valk armour mesh, but have custom textures with extra details, maybe even some glowing parts.
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I think we have to be careful about this, but I'm in tentative agreement. After all there is a reason so many contacts are outdoors (convenience). However, if they made a serious effort so that every contact gave a phone number after mission 1 or 2, and there were only a couple forced physical visits during any given arc, there should be no problems with giving most contacts an indoor place to hang out. Hell, in the Mortimer Kal SF, the head of the Warriors has a nice 14th floor office in Talos. I think our contacts should too.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Sorry for the shotgun replies
This something I find to be a BIG failing of the game's theme, and is something sort of inherent in MMOs in general - everyone always stands around doing nothing. I get that technical limitations mean we can't expect our contacts to move around, OK, I get that. But can't we put them in more appropriate places just the same? Take, for instance, Efficiency Expert Pyther - why is he standing on a terrace with a Bane Spider welding ten feet from him? How is it efficient to conduct your business outdoors and away from all forms of communication? Wouldn't it make sense for him to be inside an office? Or how about Peter Thermai? He even talks about "his office," so why is he never in said office? Harvey Maylor runs a newspaper, so where is his Jay Jonah Jameson's office? Or how about the fat afro white boy in Independence Port. He's supposed to be a weapons dealer and manufacturer, so why isn't he in a machine shop, or a lab? He's standing in front of a warehouse, supposedly housing weapons, so why couldn't he be INSIDE it? Or how about Dr. Steven "Science" Sheridan? What the blue balls is he doing next to a hazard zone checkpoint, back up against a fence next to the hospital? He's not a medical doctor. Wouldn't he have a lab set up where he works IN THE NAME OF SCIENCE? And why is Crimson standing under a giant statue's crotch? How did he get out to that little island outcrop without getting that ridiculously obvious red suit of his wet? Shouldn't we be meeting on a park bench or in a crowded restaurant or somewhere a little less conspicuous? That damn red suit alone on that little island within line of sight of the ferry is like a lighthouse in the night. I would honestly love to see most contacts move either indoors in their own places of business or dwelling, or otherwise moved to places that make sense. |
Actually I had a couple other examples of Contact setting that I think would be cool.
An outdoor setting would be perfectly appropriate for a contact that was a paranoid conspiracy theorist. Meet him sitting on a park bench feeding pigeons, like the old spy movies. Then using the same tech I talked about yesterday, have him move to a new clandestine meeting location after every couple of missions. Actually, if there were ever one contact I'd want to never give his phone number, this would be it. At least as long as he doesn't decide to meet us on the far side of Independence Port.
Another self serving example would be if say my namesake were ever made a contact, I'd hope that he'd be placed doing an /em crouch up on something high. Just saying, not every contact/signature character needs to operate in a normal frame of reference.
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On the topic of hires wings I really wish you gave us a highres headband wing costume piece. I like the old wings more because of the headband/tiara thing they have with wings attached to it. Ofcourse don't get rid of the old version but if we could select a highres version of it instead it would be a welcomed update.
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Originally Posted by Noble Savage
In some cases, I don't think it's a problem to make signature characters out of CC parts. Valkyrie's a good example--her concept is that she's an armor-clad warrior with a mythical flavor, and you've done an excellent job showing how it could be done using "off the shelf" parts. And as new options (like Ascension and Celestial Armor for example) continue to come online, it's increasingly doable. I'd use the highres wings instead, but otherwise, I dig what you've done here.
But if a character's core concept requires something we simply COULDN'T make in the CC, then yes--of course it should be built from scratch. As with everything, it's always a question of resources. Where is the team's time better spent: on a signature character or on a new costume set for you guys? In general, I think fans are happier when we go with the latter more often than not, but obviously we're still making plenty of from-scratch signatures too. It's just a matter of finding the perfect ratio. |
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Problem: The Valk pack wings don't have a "with headband" option the lowres ones do.|
Originally Posted by Noble Savage
I'd use the highres wings.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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I agree with you on this point. |
Originally Posted by OminousVoice
True, she should reflect her origin and look techy, but there's hi-tech, lo-tech and then there's the current Valkyrie which looks more like a cheap halloween costume than battle armour.
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If they want to make fancy versions of the existing valkyrie parts that do look techy, that would be cool, but if they're going to use standard costume creator parts, I think she should look like she's wearing a suit of technological armor, which is why I prefer Techbot's suggestion over yours. I think it's the most important aspect of her costume, otherwise her original version probably would have used the medieval armor parts.
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In regards the Noble_Savage's thoughts on Hamidon (I didn't read everything between his post and here), the one thing that always bugged me is that Hami's interior jelly does not have different physics. Hami's jelly is a different medium, presumably more viscous. You shouldn't be able to just run/jump/fly into him and not be affected in some way.
For this hypothetical example, I propose that when you enter Hami, you will encounter either a -movement effect field or Hami's interior is considered water. I prefer the water treatment myself, especially it is the submersible and swimmable water like that in the Cimeroran mission cave chamber. This will have the side benefit to the non-flying meleers being able to swim up to a mito without having to do hop-attacks.
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Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
Problem: The Valk pack wings don't have a "with headband" option the lowres ones do.
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Yes. I've got a valkyrie character (whom I have a framed David Nakayama sketch of on my wall above my computer), and that's the only reason I use the old wings. The new wings look AWESOME, but don't have that headband/tiara with earplates piece. It looks like she's got metal wings growing out of her head if I use them.
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Every time.|
Originally Posted by Noble Savage
I In general, I think fans are happier when we go with the latter more often than not...
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I would much rather the art team work on things I can have, rather than things I can't have.
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Originally Posted by Noble Savage
In some cases, I don't think it's a problem to make signature characters out of CC parts. Valkyrie's a good example--her concept is that she's an armor-clad warrior with a mythical flavor, and you've done an excellent job showing how it could be done using "off the shelf" parts. And as new options (like Ascension and Celestial Armor for example) continue to come online, it's increasingly doable. I'd use the highres wings instead, but otherwise, I dig what you've done here.
But if a character's core concept requires something we simply COULDN'T make in the CC, then yes--of course it should be built from scratch. As with everything, it's always a question of resources. Where is the team's time better spent: on a signature character or on a new costume set for you guys? In general, I think fans are happier when we go with the latter more often than not, but obviously we're still making plenty of from-scratch signatures too. It's just a matter of finding the perfect ratio. |
As we get more stuff, that allows the Signature Characters to get better stuff as well! That said, I think all signature characters need something to make them stand out as well... so a tiny bit of resources to give each SigChar a special something is fine. That said, people shouldn't be against signature characters updating their looks.... we have 5 costume slots... with potentially more to come.... what's to keep Ms. Liberty from her alternate costumes too? Not enough Halloween salvage?
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Generally, I think that every single important signature character should have at least one unique part on them that players can't get - but that similar pieces should also be made for players - for example, Statesman should always have his unique faceplate, but that doesn't mean that players can't have access to 3-4 faceplates in another style - or like BAB should always keep his power gloves, but players should be given a few pairs of power gloves that are similar, but not identical.|
Originally Posted by Noble Savage
But if a character's core concept requires something we simply COULDN'T make in the CC, then yes--of course it should be built from scratch. As with everything, it's always a question of resources. Where is the team's time better spent: on a signature character or on a new costume set for you guys? In general, I think fans are happier when we go with the latter more often than not, but obviously we're still making plenty of from-scratch signatures too. It's just a matter of finding the perfect ratio.
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Players should only ever be able to look similar to signature characterss and never be able to make exact clones of them - which is why Sister Psyche should get those shoulder rings she wears in a lot of the promotional art, because right now, I think she's just about the only signature character that players can totally recreate 100% in the costume creator.
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