Discussion: Paragon Rewards program details
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2011-07-21 13:18 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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As would I. I wasn't able to attend the dev chat, and would like to know exactly how my vet status will affect this tier system. Can we get some specifics? Like, "if you are a 69 month vet, it would place you here, and if you're a 21 month vet, it would place you here" and so and so forth...|
Originally Posted by Puppycrusader
I thought I'd gotten a decent grasp on how this was going to work from the dev chat
thread, but this part tossed me back into confusion: While I like that, it means I no longer understand how the Tiers work exactly. Say you're a veteran player, with quite a number of months behind you. Can you place them wherever, at any time, and all the Tiers are automatically open to claim rewards from from the start? Or do you have to fill out lower tiers to open the higher ones? Or do you "unlock" tiers just by virtue of having a certain number of months behind you, like the current reward system? This also seems to imply that if you are a VIP player, the VIP Tier 9 may be open automatically from the start to them. Is this the case, or again, do you have to fill out the lower tiers to open the VIP tier? The summary from the dev chat implied if you were a Veteran, you would have these tiers auto-filled for you or tiers had to be otherwise unlocked in some ascending-order way(Things such as "may start at Tier 7"), so I'd appreciate greater clarification on how exactly this all functions. |
Either way, it looks very promising.
"Alien"
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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
The way you play changes your IO slotting..
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76 characters and Twenty-four 50s later, I still love this game.
AlienOne's Human-Form Warshade Guide (Old guide+New guide = 12,000+ views!)
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Who knows? Games like this don't really have a natural lifespan, they last as long as people are still willing to pay. A certain 12 year old MMORPG is still getting expansion packs.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Will CoH even be here 7 years from now?
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Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
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Check out the dev chat highlights thread, it has a lot of good info (including a few people mapping the current system onto the tiers):|
Originally Posted by AlienOne
As would I. I wasn't able to attend the dev chat, and would like to know exactly how my vet status will affect this tier system. Can we get some specifics? Like, "if you are a 69 month vet, it would place you here, and if you're a 21 month vet, it would place you here" and so and so forth...
Either way, it looks very promising. "Alien" |
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...266298&page=24
A rough analogy I like to use is that each spot on the chart (except of the first one) corresponds to one 3-month veteran reward under the current system. So count how many veteran reward badges you have and that's where you'll start. Additionally for every full year you've been subscribed you get one bonus. Since the bonuses follow pretty much the same order as the current rewards (with a limited ability to reorder them) this is roughly equivalent to increasing your veteran rewards level by one step for every year you've subscribed.
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A very well formed post and great feedback. After taking time to review the program more closely, I'm going to agree with Z_M here. His proposed method is much more inline with what many people have been clamoring for with vet rewards.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
FEEDBACK
Overall I really like this solution to the current Vet Reward system which has become untenable in that a brand new player would despair of every getting to a really good reward locked away behind a 7 year subscription to the game. Will CoH even be here 7 years from now? Supplanted by CoH2? The new system speeds up the rewards to a three year plateau and gives long time Vets still more rewards without making the gap between them and the newbies insuperable. Problem with Lack of FREEDOM I know Posi said people won't like the aspect of having to fill a Tier before progressing to a new one with the implication being "we're doing it this way even if you complain." And Zwillinger has said, "it's not a tree!" Well, I'm going to complain about this tree. It is a tree. Period. No amount of redefinition will change that. And because it is a tree, it locks rewards behind other rewards. Just because someone climbing up the tree gets to chose the order of seven Rewards in a Tier, doesn't really make it any less a tree or lack of *overall* choice. And so, there really isn't the FREEDOM here which this reinvention of CoH is supposed to be all about. It's still the same Vet Reward program with internally scrambled segments. One of the eternal complaints of the Old Vet System is something you've heard from players over and over: Some of the rewards are less than stellar. I'm looking at you, Boxing Set and Greek Letters. Compare that to Assemble the Team or Portable Auctionhouse. Or compare that to Angelic/Demonic Wings and Kilts, which you see people actually use in the game. I can't remember the last time I saw a Greek letter being used. And the Paragon Reward system is still making new players take those unwanted rewards before the ones they want. Why? Why make players take rewards they don't want? (Yes, *some* do, but they should have the choice.) Suggested Solutions to Lack of FREEDOM Allow advancement to the next tier without fully picking all of the previous tier. Progression may go like this:
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In the Ustream one of the presenters said something to the effect of, "Long-time vets don't like it if newbies can get stuff they have. They want people to pay their dues and not get the remote auction house on day one."|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
And the Paragon Reward system is still making new players take those unwanted rewards before the ones they want. Why? Why make players take rewards they don't want? (Yes, *some* do, but they should have the choice.)
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As a long-time vet, I don't feel that way. I don't need to repress others so that I can feel superior. If they pay their money they should be able to get whatever they pay for.
I can sort of understand the sentiment that vets had to accept years worth of "filler" rewards (respecs, costume change tokens -- I've got more than 80 costume changes on some characters, etc.) while waiting for the one or two decent rewards that came out each year.
But as long as I get to keep everything I already have, I don't really care if someone else can get all the same stuff I have by paying the same amount of money in one day that I paid over seven years. Because in the future I'll be able to skip over the stuff I don't care about and get only those things that do interest me.
I read the details on the news page about this and I confess that I am confused.
Can anyone who understands the new rewards clear up my confusion?
Am I failing at reading comprehension, or is this information actually not clearly defined?
This statement:
"The freedom to keep all of your earned badges and rewards you've earned through the Veteran Rewards Program, while unlocking new exclusive rewards."Seems to be contradicted by these statements:
"When the Paragon Rewards program begins, Veteran Rewards and subscription time in City of Heroes® convert to Reward Tokens."The word "convert" means to me that the veteran rewards I already have earned will be gone and will have to be purchased. Conversions mean that something is lost as well as something gained.
"All the same badges from the Veteran Rewards program can still be unlocked in the Paragon Rewards program. You can choose to reslot them as rewards. "The word "reslot" means to me that I have to regain these badges rather than "keep" them as the first statement I quoted claims.
I don't see anything addressing how this affects existing characters who have already consumed many of the veteran rewards. By consumable, I mean respecs, xp bonuses, costume tokens, merits.
If I get credit for all my veteran rewards, and can use the new points to purchase consumable rewards that I've already consumed under the old system, then I get a heck of a bonus.
And if existing characters do lose existing veterans perks until repurchased, what happens to salvage in bonus salvage slots?
*shakes like a junkie* Need.... celestial.... costume set....
WOW!!!!!!!!
or as Keanu Reeves said....whoa....lol
You only fail if you give up. - Dana Scully
Time Jesum Transeuntum Et Non Riverentum - Nick Cave
We're not just destroyers, at the same time we can be saviors. - Allen Walker
I agree with Rodion. If I get to keep or better yet, upgrade what I have, I don't care if others get it too.
My brain hurts with trying to figure it out. I'm going to go log in and play instead of worry about what might happen this fall.
Liberty Server
Having fun everyday.
I have a question. I watched all of the U-Steam stuff, I read all of the info, and one thing they were never clear on, is just HOW in game, the new system works. Is it something done account wide that you set up? Or is it per character, you open the UI, put the tokens in and unlock the stuff? If it is per character, I'd have to guess, every character would get the same amount of tokens, and they wouldn't make you pick and choose WHICH characters got what rewards. That would be a rather large downgrade to how it is now (every character able to get all rewards). I'm just confused on this, and maybe someone can shed some light on it for me.
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So wait. Wait wait wait... (re-reads it again)|
Originally Posted by Beastyle
You can then use Reward Tokens to unlock Paragon Rewards. All the same badges from the Veteran Rewards program can still be unlocked in the Paragon Rewards program. You can choose to reslot them as rewards. Or you can choose different rewards. The choice is yours--
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If I'm reading this right, we'll lose all our current veteran badges, but can re-purchase them if we want them?
Everything else seems totally awesome, and I'm looking forward to it, but having to re-buy stuff we already have seems kind of bogus... or did it mean veteran badges we currently don't possess but want we can still buy in the new system?
It's the word 'reslot' that has my head tilted.
Just looking for some clarification...
Lyc~ the 'devil's in the details' werewolf
"I play characters. I have to have a very strong visual appearance, backstory, name, etc. to get involved with a character, otherwise I simply won't play it very long. I'm not an RPer by any stretch of the imagination, but character concept is very important for me."- Back Alley Brawler
I couldn't agree more.
Excited?! Hellz yes! Can't wait.
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No. The Paragon Rewards you've "already" accrued up to this point will be allocated for you, in exactly the stuff you've already unlocked. You'll get the choices, if eligible for choices, after you earn another token after I21 goes Live.
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Originally Posted by Lycantropus
If I'm reading this right, we'll lose all our current veteran badges, but can re-purchase them if we want them?
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There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
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Unless it's from the Beam Weapon power set.|
Originally Posted by Obscure Blade
Huh, is that pistol new?
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EDIT: Weird. Double post, sorry.
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
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I don't have clue how they're working the Vet Badges.|
Originally Posted by Lycantropus
If I'm reading this right, we'll lose all our current veteran badges, but can re-purchase them if we want them?
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What they say about the badges is not precise enough to know what their plan is.
Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
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I don't like to complain, but this is the truth. Some of the rewards probably seemed like a good idea at the time, but that was a long time ago. They are now looking rather long in the tooth.|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Some of the rewards are less than stellar. I'm looking at you, Boxing Set and Greek Letters.
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| Allow advancement to the next tier without fully picking all of the previous tier. Progression may go like this: |
One idea might be a "gift certificate." Replace for example the Greek letter chest symbols with a 40 Paragon Point "gift certificate" (about 50 cents) and allow the player to pick one small item they'd like. (I *think* I saw items for as low as 50 cents on the store list).
Etc. A few small improvements here would go a long way, I think.
You'll have to keep the old rewards around so players can earn them somehow. My opinions: Greek letters: give them away free to all Premium players. Boxing costume set: $0.50 or $1 item in store.
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Thanks! That's what I thought was said previously... I just got hung up on the use of the word 'reslot' implying that it was possibly going to be 'un' slotted and you could slot it again if you wanted to, or not. |
Originally Posted by DumpleBerry
No. The Paragon Rewards you've "already" accrued up to this point will be allocated for you, in exactly the stuff you've already unlocked. You'll get the choices, if eligible for choices, after you earn another token after I21 goes Live.
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I'm going to presume, until told otherwise, that it was just poorly worded.
"I play characters. I have to have a very strong visual appearance, backstory, name, etc. to get involved with a character, otherwise I simply won't play it very long. I'm not an RPer by any stretch of the imagination, but character concept is very important for me."- Back Alley Brawler
I couldn't agree more.
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That was my concern, especially with the wording. I'm going to go with DumpleBerry on this one though and keep optimistic that it was just poorly worded, and we keep what we already have, and that we can use tokens to get the other vet badges we may not have gotten yet, making the icons tier based instead of month based or something.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
I don't have clue how they're working the Vet Badges.
What they say about the badges is not precise enough to know what their plan is. |
"I play characters. I have to have a very strong visual appearance, backstory, name, etc. to get involved with a character, otherwise I simply won't play it very long. I'm not an RPer by any stretch of the imagination, but character concept is very important for me."- Back Alley Brawler
I couldn't agree more.
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I *like* that. If my scheme truly is technically insurmountable as much as Arcanaville says, then the booby prizes can be replaced or sweetened with Paragon Points, which in turn allow the player to buy an item they're really interested in (maybe an emote).
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Originally Posted by gameboy1234
One idea might be a "gift certificate." Replace for example the Greek letter chest symbols with a 40 Paragon Point "gift certificate" (about 50 cents) and allow the player to pick one small item they'd like. (I *think* I saw items for as low as 50 cents on the store list).
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Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
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This does not help new players in the least. Nice try though. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
You'll get it for free if you've played long enough
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Shard Warrior - 50 MA/Regen/BM Scrapper
Founding Member and Leader : Shadow-Force
Co-Leader: Council of Heroes
"Whatever evils come this way... we will be there to stop them."
Oh yay... Two more currencies to try to keep up with. I hope we get a few dozen more. Then I won't be able to remember how any of them work.
*facepalm*
Tech Support Rule #1 - They will lie to you. Usually intentionally.
Can I trade out Vanity pets and Greek Letters and instead get something I want and would find USEFUL? 57 months, so hopefully not too bad off for the new system. But I agree that 'Freedom' isn't the way I would describe a tiered system like that.
And I want that damn armour. That better not cycle out before I can get there!
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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A few questions I'd like to see officially answered...
1.) What happens to those of us that are subscribed out way into the future? For example, my sub runs through Feb 2013 and so I won't be billed again until then. Do I get a credit of tokens (and paragon points) upon conversion to the Freedom model?
2.) What happens to our unredeemed vet rewards on existing characters?
@Texarkana
@Thexder
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Forgive me, but this seems to be a bit disingenuous, when stated below is:| A Reward Token is a free bonus you earn that you can use to unlock Paragon Rewards. Reward Tokens and Paragon Points™ are not interchangeable. Reward Tokens can only be used in the Paragon Rewards program. You cannot purchase Reward Tokens using Paragon Points, and vice versa. |
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| Earn 1 Reward Token for every 1,200 Paragon Points (approximately $15) that you purchase through the Paragon Market. |
@Celestial Lord and @Celestial Lord Too
Now personally I'd be satisfied if the system did revoke all of my veteran rewards but gave me enough tokens to re-buy them all, or purchase other things if I desire (with the implicit understanding that if I opt not to repurchase my existing rewards then I have no right to complain). However, I can see some people doing exactly that so I think opting for a non-optional system makes sense form the devs point of view.
Overall though I like the system. No matter what the final form is I'm advancing by one veteran reward a month instead of one every three and that's a bonus anyway you look at it.