Early review of Capt. America: Favorable
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2011-07-20 24:50 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
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Uhm, the tesseract/cube was shown in the Cap movie being retrieved by a subsea robot, Howard Stark orders the search to continue even though there is no wreckage in the area and the energy signature of the tesseract stopped at that spot since that is where the thing landed after it burned its way thru the hull of the Skull's flying wing.|
Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
Did it appear in Odin's armory, though? I didn't catch everything that was in there when I saw Thor. At first I thought that maybe the Cosmic Cube was inside that blue box and everyone was using it to freeze stuff cuz that was the perception it had taken on, but after reading the Walt Simonson Thor Omnibus I realized it was the Casket of Winters.
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That object that Fury shows the scientist in the THOR bonus scene was the tesseract/cosmic cube. So we know how SHIELD got its hands on it, thanks to the events in Captain America.
Yes, in THOR that was indeed the Casket of Ancient Winters, from Walt Simonson's classic run.
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I know that Stark found it, but I was referring to your "Odin's tesseract" comment. It seems weird that if the Asgardians knew about the Cube, they'd want to keep it in the armory along with the Casket and Infinity Gauntlet, so I was wondering if it had popped up there and I just didn't see it.|
Originally Posted by Nericus
Uhm, the tesseract/cube was shown in the Cap movie being retrieved by a subsea robot, Howard Stark orders the search to continue even though there is no wreckage in the area and the energy signature of the tesseract stopped at that spot since that is where the thing landed after it burned its way thru the hull of the Skull's flying wing.
That object that Fury shows the scientist in the THOR bonus scene was the tesseract/cosmic cube. So we know how SHIELD got its hands on it, thanks to the events in Captain America. Yes, in THOR that was indeed the Casket of Ancient Winters, from Walt Simonson's classic run. |
I'm also wondering why SHIELD is acting like they just barely found the Cube in modern day when Stark found it 60+ years ago. Seems like it would have made more sense if they found the Cube along with Cap.
- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
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Best scene in the whole movie. Tommy's explaining how his fair haired boy is the best choice and tosses the dummy grenade as a demonstration only to watch the 90 lb weakling jump on the grenade while his fair haired boy cowers behind a jeep/truck. |
Originally Posted by Nericus
Too bad Tommy Lee's character didn't see that, his reaction would have been probably about as funny as his reaction and commentto Erskine after Rogers threw himself onto the grenade.
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Just because Stark recovered it 60 odd years ago doesn't mean he immediately turned it over to the government.
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Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
I know that Stark found it, but I was referring to your "Odin's tesseract" comment. It seems weird that if the Asgardians knew about the Cube, they'd want to keep it in the armory along with the Casket and Infinity Gauntlet, so I was wondering if it had popped up there and I just didn't see it.
I'm also wondering why SHIELD is acting like they just barely found the Cube in modern day when Stark found it 60+ years ago. Seems like it would have made more sense if they found the Cube along with Cap. |
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No doubt, but I'm curious about what happened in between Stark finding it and Fury showing it to Loki's lackey.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Just because Stark recovered it 60 odd years ago doesn't mean he immediately turned it over to the government.
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This is why I thought the Casket had the Cube inside of it: I assumed it fell off the Bifrost Bridge to Earth during Loki and Thor's fight and that's when SHIELD found it.
- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
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Which is partly why I posted my theory a few posts back that perhaps it was Howard' studies of the tesseract/cube that led to his work on the Arc Reactor, and that he was trying to synthesize the tesserect/cube element and couldn't due to the tech of the era not being up to the task, hence he leaves his notes and clues for Tony to pick up on in Iron Man 2. |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Just because Stark recovered it 60 odd years ago doesn't mean he immediately turned it over to the government.
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Tony then finishes his father's work, the new element easily outperforms paladium and isn't toxic to him and the new mini reactor in his chest is stronger then the previous models.
So now that Fury knows Tony finished Howard's work and reading the reports about the tesseract he decides it is time to have it studied again, hence he shows it to the scientist in THOR.
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Well, they were probably digging through a bunch of poorly-marked crates looking for the Ark of the Covenant, and found that silly paperweight, instead... |
Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
I'm also wondering why SHIELD is acting like they just barely found the Cube in modern day when Stark found it 60+ years ago. Seems like it would have made more sense if they found the Cube along with Cap.
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Originally Posted by Bloodspeaker
Well, they were probably digging through a bunch of poorly-marked crates looking for the Ark of the Covenant, and found that silly paperweight, instead...
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SHIELD outsourced that stuff to Warehouse 13, and haven't been able to find anything since.
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That's easy. The Asguardian's knew about it but couldn't locate it because of what it was. Due to the time involved they probably just assumed it lost and that they would find it eventually (they're immortal after all).|
Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
I know that Stark found it, but I was referring to your "Odin's tesseract" comment. It seems weird that if the Asgardians knew about the Cube, they'd want to keep it in the armory along with the Casket and Infinity Gauntlet, so I was wondering if it had popped up there and I just didn't see it.
I'm also wondering why SHIELD is acting like they just barely found the Cube in modern day when Stark found it 60+ years ago. Seems like it would have made more sense if they found the Cube along with Cap. |
SPOILERS...
As for S.H.I.E.L.D. knowing nothing about the cube, that's not true. They knew what the Red Skull thought it was, but probably couldn't get any more information about it than that (and were probably afraid to try too hard). Though having tied it to the Asguardians, the scientist that actually had some interraction with Thor was a prime candidate for figuring out what it was.
The Red Skull probably only tapped into the smallest ammount of power it possessed, just able to power weapons and his ship with it. Remember, the cosmic cube can do pretty much ANYTHING that can be imagined. That would barely be a blip on Odin's radar, and it was shut down before it really did anything that might. Though it adds a whole new dimension to the idea that Loki has seen it in Thor. I'm sure he knows what it is...
The Red Skull actually touching it? Well according to the original stories, he was trapped inside the 'dimension' of the cube itself, but based on what has been shown, that's highly subjective, and probably the case only in what they could mentally grasp happening to him. He's probably 'out there' somewhere. Fates' willing and the franchise continues, I have no doubt he'll be brought back. Most likely by Loki in some future movie, or at least shown the way. The Avengers movie? Doubtful, but he may be in the next specific Cap movie if they make one. That's kinda how it played out in the comics and I see no reason it shouldn't be repeated in the movies.
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I couldn't agree more.
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You assume he went to Asgard. There are many worlds in the World Tree.
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Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
Well, I'm not sure how time moves in Asgard in relation to time on Earth, but the events in Thor were taking place in modern day, and if Red Skull was transported to Asgard or one of the other worlds, he was already there by the time Thor was banished.
Maybe they'll have Red Skull be even more of doppleganger to Cap in that the Frost Giants or whoever find Red Skull frozen or otherwise preserved around the same time SHIELD finds Cap? |
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Which is why I said he could have went to one of the other worlds. |
Originally Posted by UltraTroll
You assume he went to Asgard. There are many worlds in the World Tree.
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- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
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I agree that in the movie the Red SKull was tapping only a microfraction of the cube's power. At the end though he made it clear that he felt he should walk with the gods, etc etc and that he's seen the future, etc etc. So when the cube ges knocked loose by Cap and Skull picks it up, it is now activated for that moment and it granted the skull his desire.......power and to be "with the gods". But as we all know there is the old phrase "beware what you wish for". The Skull appears to have gotten his wish, but what form did it take is the real question. |
Originally Posted by Lycantropus
That's easy. The Asguardian's knew about it but couldn't locate it because of what it was. Due to the time involved they probably just assumed it lost and that they would find it eventually (they're immortal after all).
SPOILERS... As for S.H.I.E.L.D. knowing nothing about the cube, that's not true. They knew what the Red Skull thought it was, but probably couldn't get any more information about it than that (and were probably afraid to try too hard). Though having tied it to the Asguardians, the scientist that actually had some interraction with Thor was a prime candidate for figuring out what it was. The Red Skull probably only tapped into the smallest ammount of power it possessed, just able to power weapons and his ship with it. Remember, the cosmic cube can do pretty much ANYTHING that can be imagined. That would barely be a blip on Odin's radar, and it was shut down before it really did anything that might. Though it adds a whole new dimension to the idea that Loki has seen it in Thor. I'm sure he knows what it is... The Red Skull actually touching it? Well according to the original stories, he was trapped inside the 'dimension' of the cube itself, but based on what has been shown, that's highly subjective, and probably the case only in what they could mentally grasp happening to him. He's probably 'out there' somewhere. Fates' willing and the franchise continues, I have no doubt he'll be brought back. Most likely by Loki in some future movie, or at least shown the way. The Avengers movie? Doubtful, but he may be in the next specific Cap movie if they make one. That's kinda how it played out in the comics and I see no reason it shouldn't be repeated in the movies. |
Hopefully in the Avengers movie Fury will state that while Cap did smash Hydra and the Skull which was a major factor in winning the war, that Hydra remnants remained and SHIELD was formed to counter them and other threats. Thus Captain America could be said to have helped inspire the creation of SHIELD.
I still read rumors that Loki+skrulls+thanos are the big threat for the Avengers movie but to me that seems a bit along the lines of overkill. Loki alone is enough of a threat to get the team to form, throw in the cosmic cube and he's even more powerful.
The Skrulls on their own should be enough also, but what if Loki makes contact with the Skrulls and offers to aid them?
If Thanos is in the movie I hope that he's in the sequel teaser questing after the Cosmic Cube. Thanos is more then enough of a threat to carry a movie, and where there is Thanos we just might get certain characters like: Drax the Destroyer, Adam Warlock, and of course......Captain Mar-Vell.
Personally I'm hoping that after they get Loki and the forming of the Avengers out of the way, we'll see them fight Ultron in the sequel. He's a major threat and he'll undoubtedly have a lot of robot minions for the Avengers to cut loose on.
- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
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Hm, well it should be a planetary or galactic threat to bring the Avengers in, so an Ultron army could fit the bill. |
Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
Personally I'm hoping that after they get Loki and the forming of the Avengers out of the way, we'll see them fight Ultron in the sequel. He's a major threat and he'll undoubtedly have a lot of robot minions for the Avengers to cut loose on.
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I'd still want THANOS for the sequel and leave Loki for the first movie.
Hmmm and interesting idea: I wonder if in the Avengers movie we will get a moment similar to THOR #390 where THOR was separated from his hammer and the only one that could lift it and toss it back to him was.....Steve Rogers. Any respect THOR had for him at that point was instantly tripled since only the worthy can lift the hammer.
List I wrote of all the links I can remember from the Marvel movies for the Avengers:
1. Iron Man 1: we get a glimpse of a half built Captain America shield in Tony’s lab, bonus scene after the credits introduces Nick Fury
2. Hulk 2008: deleted scene on blu-ray has Hulk smashing a glacier in the arctic and you can see Captain America in the ice, however this is a deleted scene and does not fit with the Captain America movie. General Ross however reveals that they have the super soldier serum in cold storage due to the project being mothballed. The serum container had Dr. Erskine’s name on it and it sure looked like the serum used in the Captain America movie. So it is possible that Steve’s blood samples after the project helped them to recreate the serum or a near copy of it, however Blonsky wasn’t given the vita rays and possibly not even the correct dosage of the serum hence why he went crazy and wanted more and more and more power and more fights. We also see that some of the weapons like the sonic tanks came from Stark.
3. Iron Man 2: we learn that Howard Stark helped found SHIELD and that perhaps he isn’t the bad person that Tony thinks. We see an unfinished Captain America shield in the case with Howard’s name on it (also I think there was a Captain America comics #1 in it). Tony finishes his father’s work and creates the new element (allegedly called Synthetic vibranium) that his father couldn’t. Bonus scene after the credits: the hammer of THOR in a crater.
4. THOR: Dr. Jane Foster’s mentor talks about SHIELD and how he knew a brilliant scientist that was pioneering gamma ray research until SHIELD got ahold of him and he hasn’t been seen since. Clearly that was Bruce Banner. When the Destroyer arrives one SHIELD agent asks if that was something Stark built. Bonus scene after the credits: Nick Fury opens the case to reveal the tesseract/cosmic cube.
5. Captain America: the red skull finds the tesseract and states it was the jewel of odin’s vault and then he mentions the legend of Ygdrassil the World Tree as he finds the tesseract/Cosmic Cube. Red Skull is convinced that the cube is from the gods and harnesses its power to an extent to power his new weapons. (disintegrator guns also known as death rays back then). Steve Rogers becomes the first and only successful test subject of the super soldier serum as Dr Erskine is killed and the last known vial of the serum was smashed. Steve then has blood samples taken in an attempt to recreate the serum as Dr Erskine knew the formula but never wrote it all down so the secret was lost with him. We see serum in 2008 Hulk so apparently they did recreate the serum or else a close copy of it but without the vita-rays that Steve Rogers received the serum wont work properly. Steve obtains some of the Skull’s special ammo and Howard analyzes it with explosive results…..this study may be what leads him to start working on the arc reactor and his attempts to make synthetic vibranium but he was hampered by the tech of his era, which also fits with the fact that the tech of the era could barely handle generating enough vita rays to finish the super soldier process on Steve Rogers. Howard Stark builds assorted shields and costume for Cap, but Cap settles for the vibranium disc shield that Stark built. Howard apparently was working on other shields as we see some unfinished shields in Iron Man 1 and 2. Howard’s search drone at the end finds the tesseract/cube but the search for Cap fails. Nick Fury greets Cap and tells him how long Cap was asleep in the ice.
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Well, let's not forget the other requirement the doctor was looking for. Someone of good character.|
Originally Posted by Nericus
List I wrote of all the links I can remember from the Marvel movies for the Avengers:
1. Iron Man 1: we get a glimpse of a half built Captain America shield in Tonys lab, bonus scene after the credits introduces Nick Fury 2. Hulk 2008: deleted scene on blu-ray has Hulk smashing a glacier in the arctic and you can see Captain America in the ice, however this is a deleted scene and does not fit with the Captain America movie. General Ross however reveals that they have the super soldier serum in cold storage due to the project being mothballed. The serum container had Dr. Erskines name on it and it sure looked like the serum used in the Captain America movie. So it is possible that Steves blood samples after the project helped them to recreate the serum or a near copy of it, however Blonsky wasnt given the vita rays and possibly not even the correct dosage of the serum hence why he went crazy and wanted more and more and more power and more fights. We also see that some of the weapons like the sonic tanks came from Stark. 3. Iron Man 2: we learn that Howard Stark helped found SHIELD and that perhaps he isnt the bad person that Tony thinks. We see an unfinished Captain America shield in the case with Howards name on it (also I think there was a Captain America comics #1 in it). Tony finishes his fathers work and creates the new element (allegedly called Synthetic vibranium) that his father couldnt. Bonus scene after the credits: the hammer of THOR in a crater. 4. THOR: Dr. Jane Fosters mentor talks about SHIELD and how he knew a brilliant scientist that was pioneering gamma ray research until SHIELD got ahold of him and he hasnt been seen since. Clearly that was Bruce Banner. When the Destroyer arrives one SHIELD agent asks if that was something Stark built. Bonus scene after the credits: Nick Fury opens the case to reveal the tesseract/cosmic cube. 5. Captain America: the red skull finds the tesseract and states it was the jewel of odins vault and then he mentions the legend of Ygdrassil the World Tree as he finds the tesseract/Cosmic Cube. Red Skull is convinced that the cube is from the gods and harnesses its power to an extent to power his new weapons. (disintegrator guns also known as death rays back then). Steve Rogers becomes the first and only successful test subject of the super soldier serum as Dr Erskine is killed and the last known vial of the serum was smashed. Steve then has blood samples taken in an attempt to recreate the serum as Dr Erskine knew the formula but never wrote it all down so the secret was lost with him. We see serum in 2008 Hulk so apparently they did recreate the serum or else a close copy of it but without the vita-rays that Steve Rogers received the serum wont work properly. Steve obtains some of the Skulls special ammo and Howard analyzes it with explosive results ..this study may be what leads him to start working on the arc reactor and his attempts to make synthetic vibranium but he was hampered by the tech of his era, which also fits with the fact that the tech of the era could barely handle generating enough vita rays to finish the super soldier process on Steve Rogers. Howard Stark builds assorted shields and costume for Cap, but Cap settles for the vibranium disc shield that Stark built. Howard apparently was working on other shields as we see some unfinished shields in Iron Man 1 and 2. Howards search drone at the end finds the tesseract/cube but the search for Cap fails. Nick Fury greets Cap and tells him how long Cap was asleep in the ice. |
I think the Doctor knew that the serum would corrupt or drive a person's personality a bit more.
Red Skull. Bronsky. They both wanted more power. So having it, they wanted more. Steve never had that desire.
Though yeah, Bronsky didnt get the vita rays and probably not the correct serum.
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True the subject's personality would also affect the results. Imagine if someone like Wolverine or Sabertooth or the Punisher got dosed up with the Super Soldier Serum....YIKES!|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Well, let's not forget the other requirement the doctor was looking for. Someone of good character.
I think the Doctor knew that the serum would corrupt or drive a person's personality a bit more. Red Skull. Bronsky. They both wanted more power. So having it, they wanted more. Steve never had that desire. Though yeah, Bronsky didnt get the vita rays and probably not the correct serum. |
Still, it's been established in the comics that without the vita-rays to stabilize and control the serum development that there will be problems, hence the 50's Cap being insane and paranoid.
Blonsky in the Hulk.....I don't think he needed that second dose of the serum. Once you receive the serum, it's in you and you are changed at the cellular level and augmented. Dosing him again was a mistake, as he was overdosed, his desire to fight was going off the scale and of course, no vita rays.
Bucky was essentially a good person similar to Steve, so he may have been a good candidate compared to Blonsky.
The mention of Blosnky reminded me of something. I really wish that Captain America had used the same fight choreographer that designed the Blonsky/Hulk fight.
The fights in the Captain America movie were good enough but the shield bashing people 30 feet through the air seemed a bit over the top. More like what you would see on a b movie version (or the inevitable bollywood rip off version).
But on the other end of the scale the first time I saw Blonsky going up against Hulk I was filled with a feeling of "Holy ****! That is what a super soldier should look like in action!" And I still feel the same way every time I watch that scene.
Don't count your weasels before they pop dink!
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Given how strong Cap is, (if I recall he can lift up to 800 pounds MU handbooks have stated he is as strong as human can be without being superhuman), sending someone flying 30 feet with one hit seems about right. I doubt he was holding back much in battle as he IS a soldier and while he told Erskine that he didn't like the idea of killing he also knew there was a war on and that in war there will be killing. |
Originally Posted by Mandu
The mention of Blosnky reminded me of something. I really wish that Captain America had used the same fight choreographer that designed the Blonsky/Hulk fight.
The fights in the Captain America movie were good enough but the shield bashing people 30 feet through the air seemed a bit over the top. More like what you would see on a b movie version (or the inevitable bollywood rip off version). But on the other end of the scale the first time I saw Blonsky going up against Hulk I was filled with a feeling of "Holy ****! That is what a super soldier should look like in action!" And I still feel the same way every time I watch that scene. |
All the leaping around that Blonksy was doing in his fight was definitely Captain America level agility, I wouldn't have minded seeing it a bit more in Cap's own movie but that's ok.
Saw it again today, still good. Also heard for the first time an interesting and accurate comment as the senator and his entourage stood up after Steve was taken out of the vita ray capsule "They created an aryan".
Stan Lee in the crowd as a General.......hmm General Lee...
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I agree with this a thousand times and have even mentioned the Blonsky/Hulk fight in numerous threads. I think the new Cap movie was great and did a good job of showing his superior strength. I just really liked that one scene in the Hulk movie.
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Originally Posted by Mandu
The mention of Blosnky reminded me of something. I really wish that Captain America had used the same fight choreographer that designed the Blonsky/Hulk fight.
The fights in the Captain America movie were good enough but the shield bashing people 30 feet through the air seemed a bit over the top. More like what you would see on a b movie version (or the inevitable bollywood rip off version). But on the other end of the scale the first time I saw Blonsky going up against Hulk I was filled with a feeling of "Holy ****! That is what a super soldier should look like in action!" And I still feel the same way every time I watch that scene. |
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That's something that I always thought was kinda funny about Cap...to fight the Nazi's, the U.S. basically creates Hitler's wet dream |
Originally Posted by Nericus
Saw it again today, still good. Also heard for the first time an interesting and accurate comment as the senator and his entourage stood up after Steve was taken out of the vita ray capsule "They created an aryan".
Stan Lee in the crowd as a General.......hmm General Lee... |
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Originally Posted by Furio
That's something that I always thought was kinda funny about Cap...to fight the Nazi's, the U.S. basically creates Hitler's wet dream
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The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
Along with Rise of the Planet of the Apes, I loved Captain America. I saw it twice within a week, which I haven't done since Aliens in '86. It's the best Indiana Jones movie we've had since The Last Crusade. This is what The Rocketeer should've been, and although I was afraid it would be another near-miss like Rocketeer, I was glad it actually hit on all cylinders. Action, humor, actual emotion and a 90-year-old virgin at the heart of it all.
The Disney acquisition of Marvel has paid off at least one dividend: Alan Menken penning the terrific USO song, "Star-Spangled Man With A Plan." Clever, cheesy and funny. Speaking of music, the score by Alan Silvestri is simply aces. Like the Indiana Jones March, the Captain America March is heroic and distinctive, promising adventure galore.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
"This mere mortal dared misuse the tesseract of ODIN!" Also a mortal in Asgard is generally frowned upon I would think.
It is also possible that the cube made the skull one with the cosmos, similar to what Thanos used the cube for back in the Captain Mar-Vell series. Only Thanos retains his consciousness and thus IS the universe whereas the Skull simply merged and disipated into the universe.
- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405