Early review of Capt. America: Favorable


Acemace

 

Posted

I'd tend to agree, I found that moment to be quite well-done and really encapsulate not only who Cap is as a character but why these guys are giving the super-soldier serum to him instead of someone who might be a better test subject physically. It's one thing to put lines in the character's mouth about nobility and honor, but that scene works better than anything you could have had him say. Even the gruff Tommy Lee Jones character respects him after that, albeit grudgingly.

I get that in the modern era where we're all used to flawed antiheroes and deconstructed sagas that a square-jawed honestly noble hero rings a bit false, but that's a core part of who the character is and I thought the film did an admirable job of portraying a character like that in a way that while not always completely believable (the bully line was a bit over the top, I thought) was completely consistent and managed to be empathetic - something that can be hard to pull off when your hero is almost inhumanly decent.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stryph View Post
sad part is now they gotta reboot F4 if they ever plan to continue because Evans was a good choice.
I'm okay with that, especially if it means MARVEL has it back under it's stable. They may not 'reboot' it but make it much more in line with the overall view of the MARVEL universe at any rate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
Steve Rogers throwing himself on the grenade while everyone else runs away will probably go down as one of my all time favorite comic book movie moments.
Agreed. I actively avoided spoilers and my wife did not. She really wanted to see how I reacted to that. X-D

To me, that's when he really became Captain America.

I won't even discuss my reaction to her when that scene happened

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justaris
I get that in the modern era where we're all used to flawed antiheroes and deconstructed sagas that a square-jawed honestly noble hero rings a bit false, but that's a core part of who the character is and I thought the film did an admirable job of portraying a character like that in a way that while not always completely believable (the bully line was a bit over the top, I thought) was completely consistent and managed to be empathetic - something that can be hard to pull off when your hero is almost inhumanly decent.
And isn't that a damn shame?

Think of the oxymoronity of that statement there based on Cap's ideals...


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I couldn't agree more.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justaris View Post
I'd to agree, I found that moment to be quite well-done and really encapsulate not only who Cap is as a character but why these guys are giving the super-soldier serum to him instead of someone who might be a better test subject physically. It's one thing to put lines in the character's mouth about nobility and honor, but that scene works better than anything you could have had him say. Even the gruff Tommy Lee Jones character respects him after that, albeit grudgingly.

I get that in the modern era where we're all used to flawed antiheroes and deconstructed sagas that a square-jawed honestly noble hero rings a bit false, but that's a core part of who the character is and I thought the film did an admirable job of portraying a character like that in a way that while not always completely believable (the bully line was a bit over the top, I thought) was completely consistent and managed to be empathetic - something that can be hard to pull off when your hero is almost inhumanly decent.
I disagree, I don't see why an honestly noble hero rings a bit false. Especially for that time, when it was different.

I think the difference is, now a days someone like that would be told "Nice guys finish last" just about every day.

The sad part for him, was that it took jumping on a grenade for the girl to even start to notice him.


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Posted

Personally I ate it up like candy, but I've always been a sucker for things like that. Might have something to do with why I've played a superhero MMO for the past 7+ years, now that I think about it...

But I do see how our culture ("our culture" being American popular culture in this instance) might look at something like this as an artifact of another age at best and as untenably false at worst. And that is sad, that we can't seem to just believe in our heroes anymore without trying to find fault with them. I think this movie deserves praise for having the courage to present a hero like this boldly and without the need to make it ironic or wink at the audience to do it.


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Posted

Saw the movie and enjoyed it quite a bit.

Couple questions - Didn't we get a glimpse of a certain red, white and blue shield in Tony Stark's lab in the first Iron Man movie? I guess that was a prototype or something.

Also, is Marvel not allowed to use the term adamantium in their movies because of Fox owning the rights to the X-Men and Wolverine franchises? 'Cause I could swear Cap's shield is a unique, irreproducable alloy of adamantium and vibranium, not pure vibranium.

Hmmm, maybe that's what the shield is in Tony's lab - a subsequent alloyed version that contains adamantium.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
I disagree, I don't see why an honestly noble hero rings a bit false. Especially for that time, when it was different.

I think the difference is, now a days someone like that would be told "Nice guys finish last" just about every day.

The sad part for him, was that it took jumping on a grenade for the girl to even start to notice him.
I think it was more when he got the flag, knowing that he had minimal chance of climbing that pole to get it he instead used his brain to come up with another way to get it. Wasn't quite against the rules and the "Wow..." expression on everyone's face as he did it and gave the flag to the sarge was rather priceless.

The grenade scene: An uncle of mine was in the service during 'Nam and he once told me that if you throw a grenade at a group of 10 soldiers that it is 99% likely that all of them will give in to the self preservation instinct and get out of the pending blast area. There is no shame in that, after all no one wants to get blown up. But he also stated that on very rare occasions you will find a soldier that will unthinkingly throw himself onto the grenade or attempt to pick up and hurl the grenade away in an attempt to save everyone.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by mousedroid View Post
Saw the movie and enjoyed it quite a bit.

Couple questions - Didn't we get a glimpse of a certain red, white and blue shield in Tony Stark's lab in the first Iron Man movie? I guess that was a prototype or something.

Also, is Marvel not allowed to use the term adamantium in their movies because of Fox owning the rights to the X-Men and Wolverine franchises? 'Cause I could swear Cap's shield is a unique, irreproducable alloy of adamantium and vibranium, not pure vibranium.

Hmmm, maybe that's what the shield is in Tony's lab - a subsequent alloyed version that contains adamantium.
The shield in Stark's lab in Iron Man 1 and 2 was an unfinished prototype.

Adamantium being part of Cap's shield was for a long time in the comics an error. The shield was originalll described in the comics as being vibranium alloy that through a process that has yet to be replicated was bonded with steel (the catalyst that allowed the bonding has never been rediscovered) and shaped into what would be the shield (i think it was stated that it was going to be a hatch for a tank made of the same alloy but since the alloy was never replicated it became his shield.)

There never has been adamantium in Cap's shield. In fact, I can't recall for certain but I think experiments to replicate the shield alloy is what ended up creating adamantium. Cap's shield can and has resisted both Wolverine's claws and the hammer of THOR which is made of uru, a mystical and nigh indestructible alloy.

Edit: just rechecked: I was right. Adamantium in the MU is the result of efforts to replicate the shield alloy.

The only known times the shield was damaged after it was deemed to be indestructible were:

1. Molecule Man: disintegrated the shield then later called its molecules back together to restore the shield.

2. Secret Wars: Doom steals the Beyonder's power and blasts the heroes. The next issue started with a splash page of the damaged shield.

3. Infinity Gauntlet: smashed by a gauntlet empowered Thanos, restored when Nebula undid all of Thanos' damage

4. angry THOR, King of asgard, wielder of the Odinpower, dented Cap's shield. THOR later fixed it.


 

Posted

So anyway, Howard Stark is analyzing the tesseract element that Steve obtained from the Hydra base and it blows up on him.....so Howard sees both how volatile it is and how much energy it could theoretically have....but now the sample is gone. They later retrieve the tesseract itself but I wonder....it's revealed in IM2 that Howard was working on a new energy source that would have the arc reactor make the nuclear reactor look like a battery by comparison. But he was limited by the technology of his era and couldn't synthesize the element....

...was Howard trying to create a new energy/element based off his studies of the tesseract fragment that Steve gave him? Upon failing he ends up using paladium instead as a substitute but it still doesn't have the output that Howard was hoping for so the arc reactor was considered a "bust" with no future development until years later when Tony shrinks it down in size and plugs it into his chest for life-support. Then later the palladium is slowly killing Tony until Fury gives him some antidote and his father's notes and Tony is able to figure things out and finish his father's work by synthesizing the new element which outmodes paladium and provides more power for his armor and life-support?

So what do you think?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nericus View Post
So anyway, Howard Stark is analyzing the tesseract element that Steve obtained from the Hydra base and it blows up on him.....so Howard sees both how volatile it is and how much energy it could theoretically have....but now the sample is gone.
Is it gone? Steve got the sample from a Hydra weapons "clip". Several of the rescued soldiers walked in the gate carrying Hydra weapons, and they had a functioning blaster-tank along. Any of them could have provided another sample.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThugOne View Post
Is it gone? Steve got the sample from a Hydra weapons "clip". Several of the rescued soldiers walked in the gate carrying Hydra weapons, and they had a functioning blaster-tank along. Any of them could have provided another sample.
Possibly but the sample that blew up on him sure appears to be gone. Also since they retrieved the tesseract, Stark may have done some study of it before it was tossed into SHIELD's warehouse/vault until Fury shows it to the scientist in THOR.

So the question still remains: did Howard try to synthesize the tesseract energies as part of his arc reactor work and it was Tony that finished the job in IM2?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nericus View Post
Possibly but the sample that blew up on him sure appears to be gone. Also since they retrieved the tesseract, Stark may have done some study of it before it was tossed into SHIELD's warehouse/vault until Fury shows it to the scientist in THOR.

So the question still remains: did Howard try to synthesize the tesseract energies as part of his arc reactor work and it was Tony that finished the job in IM2?
Why do you keep calling the Cosmic Cube the tesseract? o.O


- CaptainFoamerang

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Posted

Because that's what the Red Skull called it in the movie. Of course we are going to see him again because I don't think he died, he just went somewhere else.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Xmas View Post
Because that's what the Red Skull called it in the movie. Of course we are going to see him again because I don't think he died, he just went somewhere else.
Yeah but we know damn well what it is.

And when Red Skull was blasted, he went up, and it looked pretty similar to the effect of being transported by the Bifrost Bridge. Didn't anyone else notice that?


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Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang View Post
Yeah but we know damn well what it is.

And when Red Skull was blasted, he went up, and it looked pretty similar to the effect of being transported by the Bifrost Bridge. Didn't anyone else notice that?
One of the comments on the drive home after the movie was "So, anybody think Red Skull can fast-talk Heimdall into letting him cross?"


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThugOne View Post
One of the comments on the drive home after the movie was "So, anybody think Red Skull can fast-talk Heimdall into letting him cross?"
Well, I'm not sure how time moves in Asgard in relation to time on Earth, but the events in Thor were taking place in modern day, and if Red Skull was transported to Asgard or one of the other worlds, he was already there by the time Thor was banished.

Maybe they'll have Red Skull be even more of doppleganger to Cap in that the Frost Giants or whoever find Red Skull frozen or otherwise preserved around the same time SHIELD finds Cap?


- CaptainFoamerang

Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405

 

Posted

In the comics, didn't Red Skull at one point have a plot involving a Cosmic Cube fail and end up in some hellish dimension? So, in the movie maybe he got transported to Helheim and has been a "guest" of Hel.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenzhi View Post
In the comics, didn't Red Skull at one point have a plot involving a Cosmic Cube fail and end up in some hellish dimension? So, in the movie maybe he got transported to Helheim and has been a "guest" of Hel.
So he was sent to New Jersey and has been living with Snooky?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
The sad part for him, was that it took jumping on a grenade for the girl to even start to notice him.
I don't know what version of the movie you were watching but the one I saw showed the girl noticing him and smiling when he outsmarted all the big guys at the flagpole.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
I don't know what version of the movie you were watching but the one I saw showed the girl noticing him and smiling when he outsmarted all the big guys at the flagpole.
I recall the dumbfounded looks of the soldiers. I will have to go back and watch it to see what I may have missed.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenzhi View Post
In the comics, didn't Red Skull at one point have a plot involving a Cosmic Cube fail and end up in some hellish dimension? So, in the movie maybe he got transported to Helheim and has been a "guest" of Hel.
Yes, something like this, though I don't remember specifics. Been far too long since I've actually read any comics.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang View Post
Why do you keep calling the Cosmic Cube the tesseract? o.O
It was called that in the movie, hence why I refer to it as the tesseract. Trust me, I know it's the cosmic cube and I know the cube's history in the comics.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by mousedroid View Post
Saw the movie and enjoyed it quite a bit.

Couple questions - Didn't we get a glimpse of a certain red, white and blue shield in Tony Stark's lab in the first Iron Man movie? I guess that was a prototype or something.

Also, is Marvel not allowed to use the term adamantium in their movies because of Fox owning the rights to the X-Men and Wolverine franchises? 'Cause I could swear Cap's shield is a unique, irreproducable alloy of adamantium and vibranium, not pure vibranium.

Hmmm, maybe that's what the shield is in Tony's lab - a subsequent alloyed version that contains adamantium.
Hm, well let's not forget one important thing: in the comics after Cap was lost in the ice, others stepped forward to be Captain America to maintain appearances and morale. Perhaps the shield in Tony's lab are the remains of the shields given to the replacement Caps?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang View Post
Yeah but we know damn well what it is.

And when Red Skull was blasted, he went up, and it looked pretty similar to the effect of being transported by the Bifrost Bridge. Didn't anyone else notice that?
Yep I noticed that. Doesn't mean he went to Asgard though, and if he did he'd likely be imprisoned or executed by the Asgardians.

"This mere mortal dared misuse the tesseract of ODIN!" Also a mortal in Asgard is generally frowned upon I would think.

It is also possible that the cube made the skull one with the cosmos, similar to what Thanos used the cube for back in the Captain Mar-Vell series. Only Thanos retains his consciousness and thus IS the universe whereas the Skull simply merged and disipated into the universe.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
I don't know what version of the movie you were watching but the one I saw showed the girl noticing him and smiling when he outsmarted all the big guys at the flagpole.
Yes, that is when Peggy started to notice him as something more then a sickly kid.

The looks on the soldier's faces was priceless, but the Drill Sargeant looked like he respected Rogers at that point. Too bad Tommy Lee's character didn't see that, his reaction would have been probably about as funny as his reaction and commentto Erskine after Rogers threw himself onto the grenade.

Plus no soldier there could complain about what Rogers did to get the flag. They were just told to "get the flag", no said HOW it was to be obtained.