Dev Chat Highlights, July 20: Paragon Rewards
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-07-20 11:31 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Originally Posted by Elindor_Quinn
Didn't Positron say, when Freedom was first announced, that the Paragon Reward Points would be paid upfront for subscribers?
Which would be awesome for me - I'm only a 48 month vet (51 by this time next month), and I've got a 12+2 month subscription pending from the last Loyalty Reward period... If that's still the case, I'll have enough points to buy the Tier 9 VIP rewards when my subscription ticks over (I'll pick up 15 points, plus 1 point per month between Launch and Renewal Date). The down side is I'd need to spend real money to pick up rotated Tier 9 VIP rewards next year, but I am in a position to be able to do that if needed. |
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Originally Posted by Moly
If that is the case, I'll be happy and all of my comments here will be void. I'd happily buy a 2 year subscription if the points were paid up front.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
The free points can't be used to buy reward tokens - the reward tokens are only awarded for extra points purchased in the market.
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"Superman died fighting Doomsday because he allowed his toggles to drop, and didn't beat Doomsday before Unstoppable wore off, sad really..."
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Even folk who are fully vested and for whom the matter is moot can be the champions of those who are not.
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Originally Posted by Moly
No point in discussing with folks who are already fully vested, at least. However posting feedback for the devs is rarely a waste of time.
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I completely agree.|
Originally Posted by PeerlessGirl
Without building it in some way similar to the way Djeannie suggested earlier (making stuff cost a set number of "tokens" and letting you buy whatever you wanted) there's not really an easy way to do that. The problem with that system is, it doesn't incentivise continually maintaining an active VIP sub to get new shinys (what the current system does, but it's opressive and draconian), because if everyone could just buy up the Remote Vault and Remote AH and Return to Battle stuff right away with maybe 3-5 tokens each, they would, and then they'd have less reason to stay subbed. This strikes a happy(er) medium between Paragon wanting us to pay them monthly and the rewards system not feeling so overburdensome and draconian that newer players feel they'll never get to the "good stuff" they really want. I think especially the changeover to 1 a month helped that immensely, and I suspect if Paragon had it all to do over again they'd have done a monthly vet system back then too.
Edit: I rest my case, note the post above me talking about how awesome the Remote Vault and Remote Auction powers are :P |
Paragon Studios did want some stuff gated in some way and this is far kinder then the current vet reward system for newer players.
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15$ per 1200 paragon points awards you 1 reward token. So basically 15 dollars a token though they are not technically for sale. |
Originally Posted by McCharraigin
Big Wide Grin....Small world....I hit 54 months on the 24th Of July too
 I am also a tad confused ..think I am in the very start of tier 7....but not sure. Tier 8 is where I want to be, and I wonder how much of a bite it will take out of my pocketbook to get me there "Naow" Lisa. |
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"Once the avalanche has started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote" -Kosh
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That's what I get for over generalizing. |
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
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Thanks!
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Incorrect. Paragon Points are awarded monthly on your "billing day", even if you have a multi-month subscription. However, it was specifically stated in the UStream with Posi and WW that *Reward Tokens* are front-loaded for multi-month subcribers. If you use a 3-month recurring sub, you will get three tokens at a time, one every three months. Everything is subject to change, of course, but that's the info we've been given.
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Originally Posted by PeerlessGirl
Also, Positron did not say that people receive their tokens upfront, i.e. if I buy a 12 month subscription I do not immdeately receive 13 tokens, I receive 1 a month for 12 months, and then one at the end when I hit my year subscription. Just like the current system doesn't reward "pre-paying" the new one won't either. Unless I'm corrected on this point (which I would be happy about) I'm fairly sure this is how it works.
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"Trust me, it worked in the Simpsons." - Calash
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While you may expect that, it has not been specifically stated that it will happen as you believe it will & thus is an open question. The development team is not perfect & things fall through holes in many organizations all too often. Thus, it's not needless panic to voice your concerns in an effort to ensure that something that's important to you doesn't fall into one of those potential holes. It may be tiresome or annoying for you to read, and the issue may already be addressed, but for people not in the know, it's unknown & thus a legitimate concern that should be voiced.|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
I'm fully aware of that. I'm also fully aware that the developers have stated they will not remove anything from being earned. I fully expect that if the Celestial costume set goes *poof* from the Tier 9 VIP, that there will be other ways to earn it or they will return (often) for future players to get. Thinking anything else is just needless panic.
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Also, while you might believe that the dev team would have placed a costume set as one of the later veteran rewards had the system continued as is, I do not. I believe they had stopped doing such things based on feedback from the player-base indicating such things were undesirable.
It's for this reason that I believe people should carefully go over all the information the devs release about Freedom (& in ths particular case the Paragon Reward system) and then provide feedback about things that are unclear or of concern to them. In doing so they may make the devs aware of things they've overlooked, or hadn't considered and thus make the Paragon Reward system that much better for everyone. This thing is still in beta & thus change still is possible. (Granted probably not nearly as much as people want and not nearly as fast as they will want it...)
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Yes.|
Originally Posted by McCharraigin
Lisa looks at chart. So On July 24th I will have three slots to fill before I can enter tier 8?
1,200 Paragon Points bought in the store gets you 1 reward token This reward token unlocks 1 Paragon Reward Does 1 Paragon Reward buy 1 slot? Dang it but I am confuzzled. Lisa |
You will have 3 slots full on T7 and 3 slots empty. You also have been receiving 1 token per month since the beginning of July so if this launches in say september you will have 3 tokens available to fillup the remainder of Tier 7 with.
Keep in mind that after Freedom goes live you get 1 token per month.
The old system Enslaved - you got 1 token every 3 months and 1 token per year. The new system Freedom - you get 1 token per month + 1 token per year. So you earn the rewards faster in the new system.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
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I highly doubt this is the case, and would be...unwise. You also wouldn't get "one every three months" you'd get one every month, that's how the system works. I HIGHLY suspect they won't do this, but would be happy if I was wrong, it could be somewhat ill-advised however.
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Originally Posted by Jasra
Incorrect. Paragon Points are awarded monthly on your "billing day", even if you have a multi-month subscription. However, it was specifically stated in the UStream with Posi and WW that *Reward Tokens* are front-loaded for multi-month subcribers. If you use a 3-month recurring sub, you will get three tokens at a time, one every three months. Everything is subject to change, of course, but that's the info we've been given.
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"Superman died fighting Doomsday because he allowed his toggles to drop, and didn't beat Doomsday before Unstoppable wore off, sad really..."
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So that is contrary to what was mentioned earlier on about Paragon points, when they were 1st announced, because I thought it was at least confirmed by a red name (i forget who) that if you bought a year sub, you got ALL your Paragon Points up front.|
Originally Posted by Jasra
Incorrect. Paragon Points are awarded monthly on your "billing day", even if you have a multi-month subscription. However, it was specifically stated in the UStream with Posi and WW that *Reward Tokens* are front-loaded for multi-month subcribers. If you use a 3-month recurring sub, you will get three tokens at a time, one every three months. Everything is subject to change, of course, but that's the info we've been given.
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I can see the "Vet" Reward Tokens though just being dolled out one per month...
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It was presented in that way so that people could match it with this picture:|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
This is slightly wrong (I think). My understanding is that you can opt to skip the regular Tier 9 rewards and go straight to the Tier 9 VIP rewards if you desire.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Essentially Tier 9 and Tier 9 VIP are considered a single Tier with the restriction that only VIPs can purchase the non-repeatable rewards.
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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Originally Posted by PeerlessGirl
I highly doubt this is the case, and would be...unwise. You also wouldn't get "one every three months" you'd get one every month, that's how the system works. I HIGHLY suspect they won't do this, but would be happy if I was wrong, it could be somewhat ill-advised however.
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Typo on my part, it should have been "three tokens at a time, once every three months"
Can some other UStream junkie back me up on this, that Paragon Points are always awarded monthly, but Reward Tokens are awarded en masse at time of renewal for multi-month subs?
"Trust me, it worked in the Simpsons." - Calash
I wonder what "Inner Inspiration" is (tier 8)? It's promoted as a new power next to Return to Battle (self-rez).
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It's in the game already. It says it awards the player with 3 inspirations.
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Originally Posted by Caulderone
I wonder what "Inner Inspiration" is (tier 8)? It's promoted as a new power next to Return to Battle (self-rez).
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Originally Posted by reiella
Until I see something that states to the contrary, going to assume VK is right
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*shrug* fair enough. The issue is your chart implies that people need to select the Tier 9s before the Tier 9 VIPs and I think a lot of the people who are concerned about the system will do it in the opposite order.
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
It was presented in that way so that people could match it with this picture:
I've said so multiple times in this thread. |
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Ah, so it is! Once per 30 minutes, 3 random inspirations. Doesn't say what tier inspiration, though.
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Originally Posted by Von Krieger
It's in the game already. It says it awards the player with 3 inspirations.
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According to the ustream and the official website the tier 9 vip stuff is free and doesn't cost tokens. the regular tier 9 stuff cost tokens.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
*shrug* fair enough. The issue is your chart implies that people need to select the Tier 9s before the Tier 9 VIPs and I think a lot of the people who are concerned about the system will do it in the opposite order.
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Tier 9 and Tier 9 VIP Tier 9 and Tier 9 VIP are the top tiers of the Paragon Rewards program. The rewards theses tiers offer are meant to benefit our most veteran players.
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That I would highly doubt. Black Pebble and Zwillinger said the Celestial set would be exclusive for VIPs. |
Originally Posted by Djeannie
It is very possible they'll put them up for sale too, to buy with paragon points. They'd make more money that way for sure and it would just allow longer time vets or patient people to get them for free as tokens accrue.
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Originally Posted by Elindor_Quinn
Didn't Positron say, when Freedom was first announced, that the Paragon Reward Points would be paid upfront for subscribers?
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[EDIT]
http://www.cityofheroes.com/news/freedom/freedom_faq.html
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Q: What is the difference between a Reward Token and a Paragon Point? A: Reward Tokens can be redeemed to unlock free in-game benefits. They are earned as part of your monthly VIP player subscription or as a bonus for purchasing Paragon Points. Paragon Points can be used to purchase items through the new in-game Paragon Market. |
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Originally Posted by Red_Gren
But see, at this point it's still unknown as to whether it will remain available, so they have every right to be concerned & should express those concerns. If they don't, the devs won't be getting feedback that could be important. I don't see the devs doing things out of heartlessness either, but I can see them doing it out of obliviousness or by underestimating the importance of some aspect of the game to the player-base or portion of the player-base.
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http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/16130308 Time index 21:50-24:30 on. They are talking about never stopping badges from being earned, do you honestly think they'd do less for costumes?
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Originally Posted by Red_Gren
While you may expect that, it has not been specifically stated that it will happen as you believe it will & thus is an open question. The development team is not perfect & things fall through holes in many organizations all too often.
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Originally Posted by Red_Gren
Thus, it's not needless panic to voice your concerns in an effort to ensure that something that's important to you doesn't fall into one of those potential holes. It may be tiresome or annoying for you to read, and the issue may already be addressed, but for people not in the know, it's unknown & thus a legitimate concern that should be voiced.
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Originally Posted by Red_Gren
Also, while you might believe that the dev team would have placed a costume set as one of the later veteran rewards had the system continued as is, I do not. I believe they had stopped doing such things based on feedback from the player-base indicating such things were undesirable.
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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right i should have worded it in the third month you'll gain another token on top of the ones from 2 months, so you'd have a total of 3.
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Originally Posted by PeerlessGirl
To clairify there DJ, you get a token every month, you had that right in "2 more months" but you also said "in 3 months you'll have another token" that's incorrect, you'll have 3 tokens, plus any you might've gotten for being subscribed for a year. It's probably safe to assume that they're account wide unless stated otherwise. I can't imagine them "taking away" anything you already have (as that's counter to the stated goal of the new system). The only real question there is the new consumable items: will each character be able to, for example, claim 5 of them, or will that be 5 total per account? (My assumption unless told otherwise on those is that they're 5 per account).
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"Once the avalanche has started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote" -Kosh
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Must have missed that in the ustream. Even if it were vip only I'm sure they could gate the market to not sell things to non vip members, thus making it available for vips only to purchase. They seem quite capable of having the ability to gate everything else now based on account status so I doubt this is a stretch.
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
That I would highly doubt. Black Pebble and Zwillinger said the Celestial set would be exclusive for VIPs.
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Djeannie's Costume Creator Overhaul Wishlist
Carnie Base
"Once the avalanche has started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote" -Kosh
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I'll grant you the free (you get 1 token a month free), but the developers have not said that the tier 9 VIP rewards do not cost reward tokens.|
Originally Posted by Djeannie
According to the ustream and the official website the tier 9 vip stuff is free and doesn't cost tokens. the regular tier 9 stuff cost tokens.
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http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/16130308 time index 31:00
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
*shrug* fair enough. The issue is your chart implies that people need to select the Tier 9s before the Tier 9 VIPs and I think a lot of the people who are concerned about the system will do it in the opposite order.
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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The above ustream time index 32:40-34:00.
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Originally Posted by Djeannie
Must have missed that in the ustream. Even if it were vip only I'm sure they could gate the market to not sell things to non vip members, thus making it available for vips only to purchase. They seem quite capable of having the ability to gate everything else now based on account status so I doubt this is a stretch.
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
thanks for the timestamp.
Either they're free or they cost tokens. If they're free then the page is fine. If they cost tokens then the devs need to stop throwing the word "Free" around because they're not "Free" and the website needs to be changed. 
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"Once the avalanche has started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote" -Kosh
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I've yet to find a marketer that hasn't abused the word "free". |
Originally Posted by Djeannie
thanks for the timestamp.
Either they're free or they cost tokens. If they're free then the page is fine. If they cost tokens then the devs need to stop throwing the word "Free" around because they're not "Free" and the website needs to be changed. |
They are giving you a free reward token each month and each year. By the twisty language marketers have, they can claim that they are free.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Snowglobe-The last Column was chopped off? I am fine??? If so, whew
Zombie Man and Peerless Girl, thanks for responding....and 180something dollars for tier 9 huh?
I was going to just buy my way to the beginning of Tier 8,(That sounds soo bad) but, hmm, going all the way could be a Christmas present to me from my cats..the silly things owe me as they forgot to remember me on Mother's Day
Again, thanks you three and anyone who responded and whom I didn't see..I need to reread this thread
So don't wait for heroes, do it yourself
You've got the power
winners are losers
who got up and gave it just one more try
***Dennis DeYoung