Dev Chat Highlights, July 20: Paragon Rewards
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-07-20 11:31 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Yeah, it'll be your vet status at the point of Freedom going live (I believe).|
Originally Posted by Sapphic_Neko
I'm mostly curious if the months from 84 month to freedom is counted
 I'm technically eligble for 87 in a few days, so wonder if i get those 3 or they lost in the void... |
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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It's worth noting, because many people on internet forums express their opinions as facts. Not saying that you specifically did, but sometimes even if you don't people *take* them as facts. I'm sure the Devs know the difference, but I thought it worth noting to avoid future..."issues".
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Originally Posted by Moly
Sorry I can't help asking this...is it really necessary to point out that my opinion is in fact my opinion? Of course the opinions I express here are my...opinion...
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"Superman died fighting Doomsday because he allowed his toggles to drop, and didn't beat Doomsday before Unstoppable wore off, sad really..."
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Hmmm, in that case, I can assert that i21 should be expected September 22nd, just before I get my 72-month badge!
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Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
Yeah, it'll be your vet status at the point of Freedom going live (I believe).
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They have not. I would be inclined to assume and agree with you there, that it'll only be for consumables, and they'll just continue to add other new things to tier 9, but until they tell us, it's speculation.
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Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
I think that the cycling is only for the consumables, but I'm not 100% sure if they explicitly stated that.
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"Superman died fighting Doomsday because he allowed his toggles to drop, and didn't beat Doomsday before Unstoppable wore off, sad really..."
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Do we get to keep things like costume sets and such? Otherwise locking things like that behind this system then removing the option to get them is a terrible idea!
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Originally Posted by Positron
Tier 9 VIP will feature rotating bonuses, new bonuses will come in and old ones will retire. So there WILL be future new content for the system. It's just that in this way the tree won't become infinitely huge and unwieldy.
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"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
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From what it looked like on the ustream, whatever tokens you've accrued (found by the math scattered throughout this thread) will then be autoapplied to the paragon reward tree, which gives you basically everything you've already unlocked, but if you're partway into another tier on the tree you get to choose where those tokens are going to be spent.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
And what about Veterans who HAVEN'T been here since launch? Unless I'll still be at tier 9 ish anyway, in which case that's less of an issue.
Maybe it needs clearer explaining, or the UStream (which I can't watch till Saturday, due to the net on hols being pants) will make it clearer... |
Example:
You have 20 tokens, you are auto bought up to 18 (lets say 18 is a full tier) so you have 2 left over that you can choose from the 4 things in the new tier that you have opened up. In that tier are 2 costumes, respec token and tailor tokens. you choose the respec and 1 of the costume tokens.
In 2 more months you will have 2 more tokens to spend. To move past that tier you're currently in you'll have to buy the costume tokens and the other costume.
In 3 months you'll have another token to spend on the newest tier you've unlocked etc...
Basically whatever you have ingame now, they are saying that you will have the tokens allocated that would have unlocked that stuff you already have.
The thing that needs clarification is what of these are global per character and global per account. This is the difference of claiming 18 merits on every character as you can now and only being able to claim 18 merits ever....for those things that have multiples per character (tailor tokens, merits, respecs)
Djeannie's Costume Creator Overhaul Wishlist
Carnie Base
"Once the avalanche has started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote" -Kosh
[QUOTE=Snow Globe;3755423]Erm, sorry, just noticed that version of the chart was cut off. This chart is proper:
What is your highest Vet Reward badge? I'm guessing the 57 month badge.
Oh Heavens, I looked at it wrong....I HAVE FOUR slots TO GO....how did I make that mistake? I think I need to drink something cold....miscounting slots on a chart that easy to read is scary stuff....I am st 54 now. Somehow I did not see that last column.
So don't wait for heroes, do it yourself
You've got the power
winners are losers
who got up and gave it just one more try
***Dennis DeYoung
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When I believe what I say I believe. In my opinion, based on past actions from the developers, they very likely would have added more costumes to the Vet Reward System had they kept it intact.|
Originally Posted by PeerlessGirl
It's also possible that SG doesn't believe that at all, but was saying he believes that *I* believe that, which is not entirely accurate
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Originally Posted by Red_Gren
What Snow Globe & PeerlessGirl may be forgetting is that the information available indicates these costume sets will be available for a limited amount of time & then get changed out.
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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To clairify there DJ, you get a token every month, you had that right in "2 more months" but you also said "in 3 months you'll have another token" that's incorrect, you'll have 3 tokens, plus any you might've gotten for being subscribed for a year. It's probably safe to assume that they're account wide unless stated otherwise. I can't imagine them "taking away" anything you already have (as that's counter to the stated goal of the new system). The only real question there is the new consumable items: will each character be able to, for example, claim 5 of them, or will that be 5 total per account? (My assumption unless told otherwise on those is that they're 5 per account).
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Originally Posted by Djeannie
From what it looked like on the ustream, whatever tokens you've accrued (found by the math scattered throughout this thread) will then be autoapplied to the paragon reward tree, which gives you basically everything you've already unlocked, but if you're partway into another tier on the tree you get to choose where those tokens are going to be spent.
Example: You have 20 tokens, you are auto bought up to 18 (lets say 18 is a full tier) so you have 2 left over that you can choose from the 4 things in the new tier that you have opened up. In that tier are 2 costumes, respec token and tailor tokens. you choose the respec and 1 of the costume tokens. In 2 more months you will have 2 more tokens to spend. To move past that tier you're currently in you'll have to buy the costume tokens and the other costume. In 3 months you'll have another token to spend on the newest tier you've unlocked etc... Basically whatever you have ingame now, they are saying that you will have the tokens allocated that would have unlocked that stuff you already have. The thing that needs clarification is what of these are global per character and global per account. This is the difference of claiming 18 merits on every character as you can now and only being able to claim 18 merits ever....for those things that have multiples per character (tailor tokens, merits, respecs) |
"Superman died fighting Doomsday because he allowed his toggles to drop, and didn't beat Doomsday before Unstoppable wore off, sad really..."
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Mine keeps Positron in coffee |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I'm pretty sure mine paid for pizza last week.
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Djeannie's Costume Creator Overhaul Wishlist
Carnie Base
"Once the avalanche has started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote" -Kosh
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I'd like to reply to this as well (since it really is a valid discussion point) and just say that I agree and feel the same way.|
Originally Posted by Moly
Agreed. My final comment for this line of discussion:
Devs, please don't let this system create a divide between "haves" and "have nots." The old system did not have this problem because beyond a certain point, almost no one cares about it. I understand that you want the new system to be meaningful in terms of rewarding long-term veterans, however there are core features of the game that all VIP players are going to want access to, including costume sets, and gating them in this way is going to cause tension, as it already is with me. |
Although, not even so much that "almost no one cares about" the later vet rewards... enough people care about those (some more than about any costumes, I'm sure) that I wouldn't want to belittle their opinions. They're just things of convenience. Special quality of life improvements for the longtime vets.
However, costumes and auras are character defining attributes.
These are things that get people excited and inspired to create characters and/or to modify their existing characters in amazing ways.
And, obviously, it's a completely visual thing... So, costume achievements can seemingly flaunt in the face of the have-nots.
These just seem like extreme rewards. Likely because you really wanted to put something special in there to launch things off.
That has a bit of a negative affect for some.
You probably know that and factored it into your decision making, but there it is.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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I assumed that, SG, but I wasn't sure if your statement was more of "I believe Peerless believes that" or "I personally also believe this" and did not want to speak for you. For the record: We agree and have the same mindset on this, which is why I earlier was confused, as I'm not sure it's ever happened previously. :P
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
When I believe what I say I believe. In my opinion, based on past actions from the developers, they very likely would have added more costumes to the Vet Reward System had they kept it intact.
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"Superman died fighting Doomsday because he allowed his toggles to drop, and didn't beat Doomsday before Unstoppable wore off, sad really..."
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Like I said, when I initially posted it, I didn't realize I had cut the last column off.|
Originally Posted by McCharraigin
Oh Heavens, I looked at it wrong....I HAVE FOUR slots TO GO....how did I make that mistake? I think I need to drink something cold....miscounting slots on a chart that easy to read is scary stuff....I am st 54 now. Somehow I did not see that last column.
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You might have the 57 month vet badge by the time Issue 21 rolls out. After that, you will get 1 reward token for each month subscribed. You will also get 1 extra token at your 60th month subscribed. At any rate you'll likely have to get 3 reward tokens to get to the next level (tier 8).
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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My assumption is per character, just like the current vet rewards. I'm also assuming that they will be non-tradable, and be bound per character.
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Originally Posted by PeerlessGirl
The only real question there is the new consumable items: will each character be able to, for example, claim 5 of them, or will that be 5 total per account? (My assumption unless told otherwise on those is that they're 5 per account).
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
Didn't Positron say, when Freedom was first announced, that the Paragon Reward Points would be paid upfront for subscribers?
Which would be awesome for me - I'm only a 48 month vet (51 by this time next month), and I've got a 12+2 month subscription pending from the last Loyalty Reward period... If that's still the case, I'll have enough points to buy the Tier 9 VIP rewards when my subscription ticks over (I'll pick up 15 points, plus 1 point per month between Launch and Renewal Date).
The down side is I'd need to spend real money to pick up rotated Tier 9 VIP rewards next year, but I am in a position to be able to do that if needed.
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Positron said in the ustream chat that any rewards earned are coming out of the reward tokens first.
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Originally Posted by Elindor_Quinn
Didn't Positron say, when Freedom was first announced, that the Paragon Reward Points would be paid upfront for subscribers?
Which would be awesome for me - I'm only a 48 month vet (51 by this time next month), and I've got a 12+2 month subscription pending from the last Loyalty Reward period... If that's still the case, I'll have enough points to buy the Tier 9 VIP rewards when my subscription ticks over (I'll pick up 15 points, plus 1 point per month between Launch and Renewal Date). The down side is I'd need to spend real money to pick up rotated Tier 9 VIP rewards next year, but I am in a position to be able to do that if needed. |
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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Agreed.|
Originally Posted by PeerlessGirl
They have not. I would be inclined to assume and agree with you there, that it'll only be for consumables, and they'll just continue to add other new things to tier 9, but until they tell us, it's speculation.
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Originally Posted by Myrmydon
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Hmmm... Yeah, that could actually mean that the costumes will become available sooner or some other way (although, I'm also not going to assume that!).
Regardless, I do not believe that they will vanish from acquirement!!
So, no worries... whatever they do, I'm sure we'll be able to get the goodies when we get there.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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Well for what it's worth I'm only a 30 month veteran so while I've been around a while I will be advancing less than half way to Tier 9. However I still consider the new system to be better for me than the old one.|
Originally Posted by Moly
While I appreciate what you've done to explain the mathematics of the system, I have to disregard the preaching of anyone who is grandfathered in so completely that they will have everything in the new system handed to them immediately and for free.
In other words: Easy for you to say. |
The way I see it the new system is a strong benefit for me over the old. My basic transfer point is essentially exactly where I am under the current system except I'll get a couple of bonus points I can spend where I want (essentially advancing me to the equivalent of a 36 month veteran under the old system). Going forward I'll be advancing through the system three times faster than under the old system with the option to increase my advancement even more if I really want to.
Additionally (and this is the biggy for me) while the system is still open ended (based on Positron's comments) it is now open ended in a way that works for me. Under the current system the devs are adding new rewards at the same rate I earn them meaning I will never have everything. Now I can live with that but what does annoy me is that I can't opt to skip things I don't care about to get to those I do. However according to Posi the new plan is to introduce new items as Tier 9 VIP rewards. That means once I reach Tier 9 (in about 1.75 years unless I spend money) I will be able to choose amongst the (hopefully many) Tier 9 VIP options and cherry pick the ones that I want so I can skip the boring Celestial Armor set and instead choose the Super-Awesome-Power-Armor-Including-A-Bulky-Flat-Chested-Female-Power-Armor-Option costume set that the devs will have hopefully released in the meantime (hint, hint).
In summary from what I can see the new system provides a larger benefit to less veteran players than it does to the current crop of 84 month veterans for the following reasons:
1. Transfer over slightly ahead of where you currently are (basically add 3 months for every year)
2. Time to get current rewards is shortened from 7 years to 2 years and 7 months (with the option to spend money and advance faster)
3. Future rewards will be added at the same "Tier" meaning that once you have the current crop of rewards you can choose what order you progress through the new ones.
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Originally Posted by Djeannie
No my 15 bucks a month and your 15 bucks a month keep new materials coming. They pay the salaries of Paragon Studios. If everyone quits they go out of business or ncsoft tries to find them some other work or just fires them all.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I'm pretty sure mine paid for pizza last week.
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Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite
Dark_Respite's Farewell Video: "One Last Day"
THE COURSE OF SUPERHERO ROMANCE CONTINUES!
Book I: A Tale of Nerd Flirting! ~*~ Book II: Courtship and Crime Fighting - Chap Nine live!
MA Arcs - 3430: Hell Hath No Fury / 3515: Positron Gets Some / 6600: Dyne of the Times / 351572: For All the Wrong Reasons
378944: Too Clever by Half / 459581: Kill or Cure / 551680: Clerical Errors (NEW!)
THE COURSE OF SUPERHERO ROMANCE CONTINUES!
Book I: A Tale of Nerd Flirting! ~*~ Book II: Courtship and Crime Fighting - Chap Nine live!
MA Arcs - 3430: Hell Hath No Fury / 3515: Positron Gets Some / 6600: Dyne of the Times / 351572: For All the Wrong Reasons
378944: Too Clever by Half / 459581: Kill or Cure / 551680: Clerical Errors (NEW!)
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This is slightly wrong (I think). My understanding is that you can opt to skip the regular Tier 9 rewards and go straight to the Tier 9 VIP rewards if you desire. Essentially Tier 9 and Tier 9 VIP are considered a single Tier with the restriction that only VIPs can purchase the non-repeatable rewards.
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Originally Posted by Snow Globe
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It is very possible they'll put them up for sale too, to buy with paragon points. They'd make more money that way for sure and it would just allow longer time vets or patient people to get them for free as tokens accrue.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Hmn...holding of Joy or Raaaaage until later clarification of what comes where and does what
 Rest assured, I really, REALLY want those new armours, weapons and wings. I will kill for them, too. Be warned >_> |
Djeannie's Costume Creator Overhaul Wishlist
Carnie Base
"Once the avalanche has started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote" -Kosh
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If that is the case, I'll be happy and all of my comments here will be void. I'd happily buy a 2 year subscription if the points were paid up front.|
Originally Posted by Elindor_Quinn
Didn't Positron say, when Freedom was first announced, that the Paragon Reward Points would be paid upfront for subscribers?
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Edit: I mean if the monthly reward tokens are given in bulk when a new long-term sub is purchased.
The free points can't be used to buy reward tokens - the reward tokens are only awarded for extra points purchased in the market.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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But see, at this point it's still unknown as to whether it will remain available, so they have every right to be concerned & should express those concerns. If they don't, the devs won't be getting feedback that could be important. I don't see the devs doing things out of heartlessness either, but I can see them doing it out of obliviousness or by underestimating the importance of some aspect of the game to the player-base or portion of the player-base.
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Originally Posted by PeerlessGirl
The word you're looking for is "refreshed" that's what Posi said. That could mean: 1) Rotated 2) Added to or 3) Removed and changed
Assuming 1, you might wait for a while, assuming 2, it would always be available assuming 3, it might vanish from the Rewards list. Personally, I would bet that if 1 or 3 happened, it would also be added to the market around the same time as either of those happened, for (presumably VIPs only) to purchase. I don't see our devs being heartless enough to FOREVER remove anything. (Except some old costume pieces I STILL want back *glances at Noble Savage*). |
What Snow Globe & PeerlessGirl may be forgetting is that the information available indicates these costume sets will be available for a limited amount of time & then get changed out. No mention so far of if they will ever return outside of that limited time-frame. Some people have stated "cycled" which suggests a return, but IIRC the slides (& thus the devs) actually say [placeholder while I look this up] which implies it could be gone forever outside the limited time-frame. So, those not able to get them immediately may not EVER be able to get them!
Given that, it's TOTALLY understandable that someone for whom costumes is a big part of their enjoyment would be disappointed that these costume sets are AFAWK only available as tier 9 VIP, given what tier 9 VIP means.
I think that the cycling is only for the consumables, but I'm not 100% sure if they explicitly stated that.
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan