Dev Chat Highlights, July 20: Paragon Rewards

No point in discussing with folks who are already fully vested, at least. However posting feedback for the devs is rarely a waste of time.

Lisa looks at chart. So On July 24th I will have three slots to fill before I can enter tier 8?

1,200 Paragon Points bought in the store gets you 1 reward token

This reward token unlocks 1 Paragon Reward

Does 1 Paragon Reward buy 1 slot?

Dang it but I am confuzzled.

Lisa

While I'm sure I'm going to be sorry for this, and will likely open a can of worms...how exactly does Snow Globe "believe" something that isn't true? And what "really happened with the vet system" exactly? I get the general sense that you think there's some sort of conspiracy theory going on here? SG has explained (to the best of our ability to understand, based on how the system works currently) how things are laid out, are you implying he's incorrect?

He's stating that SG's belief and reality are not the same. The Devs would never add a full costume set as an 84 month vet reward.

EDIT: From what I've read, EK has even thanked SG for his work so far. It's you that seems to be bringing this thread down with unnecessary rebuttals. Hmmm, ironic...

Wouldn't they?

Yes. So does subbing for one month. And for subbing for one whole year.

Well, I guess the OLD Devs wouldn't. These new ones would do anything for the $.

What is your highest Vet Reward badge? I'm guessing the 57 month badge.

Yes, or 1 month's subscription post Issue 21 launch gets 1 reward token. Additionally you get 1 extra Reward Token each year that you subscribe (like the 2 extra character slots you have received with the old Vet Rewards Program). I don't know if they are still going to give you 2 character slots per year subscribed though.

As described, yes, you got it right.

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

And we're sliding down that slippery slope faster and faster...

Sure, in my gut, I want the new shinies "Nao" too. I am not a "fully vested" vet with everything "handed to me immediately and for free" the difference is, I curb my impulse to have something now, and don't express it in this manner. I assume you dislike the fact that others may get something "immediately and for free" that you aren't going to get? There's a word you use to describe that. I mentioned it a few posts ago, I'm sure everyone can guess what that word is. I won't go off on my feelings about that particular "issue" being what I think is the root of America's (especially, though other countries suffer from it too, to a lesser extent) problem right now, because that gets into politics and things, suffice it to say I believe the world would be better in general, if people could curb their "now" impulses just a little bit more...

You're right though, it is probably best to end this line of discussion here, lest many of us get mod-smacked, it's also derailing the thread a bit. The real point of my whole original post string was that if the system had not been changed, those things might have been added on to the current system at the end, and you'd be just as upset about that, presumably, I know I would. Under the old system you'd have a lot more room to feel disenfranchised and upset, that's why they've changed it. Also it means they can add stuff without continually extending the "months" to the point where it gets rediculous. As was pointed out much earlier in this thread, the game *may* have less life ahead of if than it has behind it (though perhaps not, given that the oldest MMO out there is prepping for a new patch) and people such as yourself might never reach the top end rewards under the old system. I think it just became an issue for you because as you said "after the Samurai Armor, I didn't care about any of the other stuff, but now they've added something at the end I happen to want" that's why it's raising your ire. Ironically, most people I've talked to felt the Samurai armor was as useless as the Greek letters, but that's why people are individuals and have their own tastes. For example I remember way back when being really upset because I couldn't get belly shirts on my second account, because I had a character that needed them, if this system had been in place then it would've been a lot quicker, and I could've chosen it as soon as I reached that tier.

But again, it all depends on what affects each person personally, many don't care about something unless it directly affects them.

And thanks. To be fair, I'd not say that they'd "never" do such a thing. I just don't think it is the type of reward we'd expect at that far down the line.


On to another point... Yeah, that Remote Vault should be another nice bit of convenience!

The Electric-Knight ______ Malfaz _____ Zox'Oculox

@Zethustra

"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan

www.pauldamonthomas.com - Original Music

yes, one token opens one slot. You'd need to fill tier 7 entirely before you can enter tier 8. Also, we don't know if/when "bulk" paragon points are sold, if we'll get more tokens or not as part of that deal. They might for example sell 1200 in a "batch" and let you have 2 tokens instead of one for buying it all at once, though I'm sure they're still working out those specifics.

It's also possible that SG doesn't believe that at all, but was saying he believes that *I* believe that, which is not entirely accurate, as I don't believe the devs would've added it to the end of the current system either, my point was, they certainly COULD have, and had they not have added the new system, that's how it might've been done, if not sold as a booster pack. I gather they've had focus groups looking at this, and those focus groups (presumably consisting of long time players as well--many were I believe flown out to preview this stuff, or did it at an M&G) presumably these groups had little to no problems with these costume bits being at the top of the reward pyramid, or else I doubt they'd have done it. Perhaps they will relent and offer it for sale as well, but we'll have to wait and see on that.

Agreed. My final comment for this line of discussion:

Devs, please don't let this system create a divide between "haves" and "have nots." The old system did not have this problem because beyond a certain point, almost no one cares about it. I understand that you want the new system to be meaningful in terms of rewarding long-term veterans, however there are core features of the game that all VIP players are going to want access to, including costume sets, and gating them in this way is going to cause tension, as it already is with me.

These are the old devs

Hey!!
They're not old!
They're experienced!!

The Electric-Knight ______ Malfaz _____ Zox'Oculox

@Zethustra

"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan

www.pauldamonthomas.com - Original Music

Ya, and they COULD have made a sling-shot powerset too but they didn't. The point is being realistic rather than argumentative.

Blah, anyways.

This new rewards programs is a step up in many areas, but I will to crack open a beer and read this over again after work to get a real feel for the perks.

I have two accounts. On one account I will have the 78 month veteran reward badge in August. On my second account, I have zero vet rewards. On that second account I'll only have the tier 2 reward (trenchcoat), because it will be a premium account.

As to my stance on the system, I felt the same way long ago:
The thing is that if people want to burn money, they CAN have it now with this new system.

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

One final point of clarification:

The old system did the same thing, there were "haves" and "have nots" it's just your *opinion* that it didn't have that problem because "beyond a certain point almost no one cares about it". The difference there is, that "point" is different for everyone. For me personally, I ceased caring that much once I got my Reveal power. I thought the "Return to battle" and "Remote AH" looked great, but they were way down the line at that point. To the point that I said "meh, if I wanted to unsub now, I could, I've got everything I really want." The difference is, that point was earlier in the system for you, it might be later for many others. That's worth making note of. Beyond that, I think we're done here. It's up to the Devs to decide if your objections have merit.

If it's any consolation, I'm near enough to be fully vested & I understand your disappointment. The pics posted of the new costume sets do make them look to be pretty spiffy & thus desirable.

What Snow Globe & PeerlessGirl may be forgetting is that the information available indicates these costume sets will be available for a limited amount of time & then get changed out. No mention so far of if they will ever return outside of that limited time-frame. Some people have stated "cycled" which suggests a return, but IIRC the slides (& thus the devs) actually say "refreshed" which means it could be gone forever outside the limited time-frame. So, those not able to get them immediately may not EVER be able to get them! Dev response would be needed to address this issue. (Also, based on feedback which Moly & Electric-Knight are rightly providing the Devs may need/want to re-examine the issue.)

Given that, it's TOTALLY understandable that someone for whom costumes is a big part of their enjoyment would be disappointed that these costume sets are AFAWK only available as tier 9 VIP, given what tier 9 VIP means.

Oh yeah... yes, you could buy your way to tier 9, but depending on how far away you are that could be what some would consider a ridiculous amount to pay for a costume set. Technically fair, but realistically, given the range of incomes among the player-base?

So... I'd say, keep stating your opinion, tell them your concerns. The issue is in beta & thus still subject to change. Also, this is an MMO & is constantly evolving.

Yes, they're veterans - but I'm not sure what tier they're at yet.

Sorry I can't help asking this...is it really necessary to point out that my opinion is in fact my opinion? Of course the opinions I express here are my...opinion...

Believe what you will, but in the past, the developers did exactly that: added Costumes to the Vet Reward System. 42 Months, 51 Months. We were actually overdue for new costumes in the Vet Reward System.

Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

The word you're looking for is "refreshed" that's what Posi said. That could mean: 1) Rotated 2) Added to or 3) Removed and changed

Assuming 1, you might wait for a while, assuming 2, it would always be available assuming 3, it might vanish from the Rewards list.

Personally, I would bet that if 1 or 3 happened, it would also be added to the market around the same time as either of those happened, for (presumably VIPs only) to purchase. I don't see our devs being heartless enough to FOREVER remove anything. (Except some old costume pieces I STILL want back *glances at Noble Savage*).