Testing Shards to Incarnate Progression
By
Ahab001,
Posted on: 2011-06-29 21:41 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
How about make it simple
Hero/Villain Merits only for conversion:
Common:
1 Hero Merit equals Common Component. For sake of normal dev design, or old timer end of TF random drop, let it be a random roll. But, I would rather be able to pick
2 days of Tip mission runs per Common. 6 days for a T1
Uncommon:
2 for Random Uncommon, 4 for player pick
4 days to get an Uncommon
Rare:
5 or 10 Hero Merits.
10 to 20 days.
If I am remembering it right. Doing the math: 6 days for T1, 10 days for T2, 26 days for T3. 42 days total for Level shift on Lore, Destiny or Alpha. Or about a month and a half.
Now, lets say we use Reward Merits. At a conversion of 100 for Common, 200 for Uncommon, 500 for Rare. Depending on how you go about it, this would be a way, but would take much more time, unless you do a week long W(TF/SF).
How is this for an idea? Does it help the against "horders" of Vanguard or Reward merits? Or just gives two other options, either do a series of Tip Missions as they come, mission arcs, vanguard missions or Mothership raids, etc.
All leading to 4 different ways of getting to most of the Incarnate stuff. But still "Gating" Astral Merits, Empyrean Merits and Very Rare Components to the Incarnate Trials.
Trials Continue to be the fastest method, but with the inclusion of Auras, Emotes and Costume Pieces opened by Astral or Empyrean Merits, they have a way to entice players to do Incarnate Trials. It would seem "fair" to allow something like this alternative path.
210 50s and still counting!
Another addition to my idea would be to add a story arc that allowed for each Incarnate power to be unlocked.
Maybe they plan on doing this once Paragon Points comes out. But a story arc for each Incarnate Power would be nice. I wouldn't mind if it was something like a Patron arc, with its 10-20 missions to complete, if it was meant to be similar to the grind of Incarnate Trials.
Would anyone be opposed to something like this?
210 50s and still counting!
What would be a reasonable ratio of time?
And has there been a consensus of how long it takes to run trials to get to tier 3?
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I think this might be a bit more of a problem if there was some reason for the solo character to actually need the incarnate abilities outside of "I just want them, but don't need them, just want them fast, so I can move on."|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I would not consider this reasonable.
What I consider reasonable is the equitable level of time to rewards for soloists that exists in every other part of this game. The time it takes me to solo to 50 versus the time it takes a player that teams all the time is currently reasonable in my opinion. The time it takes me to solo to an IO build versus someone that teams I also consider reasonable. The time it takes me to earn the inf necessary to buy a PvP unique IO versus the time it takes someone who AFK farms for them is equitable in my opinion. This is not the case for incarnate advancement. I consider this wrong. Not fair. Not equitable. Not in line with the rest of the game. Not reasonable or rational. EDIT: Great. Now I'm channeling Mordin Solus. |
Solo players want to become Incarnates, I get that. Alpha, easy enough to get unlocked solo. Just do the arc.
I see you have a team vs solo account of how long it takes to get rewards. But nothing said of why one would even need the abilities solo.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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As long as this arc also granted an emp merit at completion (once per day as per itrial,) astral merits (as per itrials) and random threads, I'd be all for it. Again, make the enemies level 54 to keep it all comparable.|
Originally Posted by Charnage
Another addition to my idea would be to add a story arc that allowed for each Incarnate power to be unlocked.
Maybe they plan on doing this once Paragon Points comes out. But a story arc for each Incarnate Power would be nice. I wouldn't mind if it was something like a Patron arc, with its 10-20 missions to complete, if it was meant to be similar to the grind of Incarnate Trials. Would anyone be opposed to something like this? |
I'd still much rather see the shard system dumped as unnecessary.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
I see you have a team vs solo account of how long it takes to get rewards. But nothing said of why one would even need the abilities solo.
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I will take a stab at this. To me, the Incarnate Powers are a way to fill the gaps in the various Archtypes. If you are an Invulnerable Tank, who has always had trouble with endurance issues and the build has no endurance recovery like some of the other Armors, you can go Ageless with Destiny slot and fill that gap. If you always wanted to have a Boom like a Blaster but made a Defender now you can pick up a Judgement power that feels very Boomy.
It isn't so much that you need these abilities, but if you look at them as Super Pool Powers, that requires work to round out the rough edges of a character you have enjoyed playing, then more options, paths, or roads to glory can't be all bad can it?
210 50s and still counting!
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I already answered to this same question from you in another thread.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
I think this might be a bit more of a problem if there was some reason for the solo character to actually need the incarnate abilities outside of "I just want them, but don't need them, just want them fast, so I can move on."
Solo players want to become Incarnates, I get that. Alpha, easy enough to get unlocked solo. Just do the arc. I see you have a team vs solo account of how long it takes to get rewards. But nothing said of why one would even need the abilities solo. |
If a soloist doesn't need incarnate abilities, the team players need them even less. Everything in this game is easier and faster for those on teams. This is by design.
Your incorrect belief that soloists don't "need" incarnate abilities while those teaming do does nothing but tell us you don't know what soloists have been doing for the last seven years.
Be well, people of CoH.
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That seems to be the most side-stepped question. *Currently* (it may well change in the future when they release solo incarnates stuff, which I believe will happen in some form) there's nothing in the game designed for the level of power that high-end incarnate powers grant. They're expressly designed for the Incarnate trials...not even just teams....but for the trials. If one isn't doing the trials for *whatever* reason, where is the *need* for solo incarnate power acquisition at a faster rate?|
Originally Posted by BrandX
I think this might be a bit more of a problem if there was some reason for the solo character to actually need the incarnate abilities outside of "I just want them, but don't need them, just want them fast, so I can move on."
Solo players want to become Incarnates, I get that. Alpha, easy enough to get unlocked solo. Just do the arc. I see you have a team vs solo account of how long it takes to get rewards. But nothing said of why one would even need the abilities solo. |
edit- and granted there are people that do amazing things solo..I'm talking from the dev standpoint, though. What need is there for a non-trial player to have the abilities that were expressly designed for use in the trials?
Furio--Lvl 50+3 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster, Virtue
Megadeth--Lvl 50+3 Necro/DM/Soul MM, Virtue
Veriandros--Lvl 50+3 Crab Soldier, Virtue
"So come and get me! I'll be waiting for ye, with a whiff of the old brimstone. I'm a grim bloody fable, with an unhappy bloody end!" Demoman, TF2
the most suprising thing to me is that they almost ignored the apex/tin mage stuff
those things ARE incarnate content, but they are treated barely above a regular tf
making tin mage and apex drop threads and award components in a way similar to the trials would solve many problems (not a solo route, but for those who dislike trials)
eliminating shards altogether is prolly what the solo route needs right now, on normal tfs just get rid of the shard component reward and add in random common thread component (to make it fair you would not be able to choose)
other than that, my experience with the non trial path matches Billz experience in that it is ridiculously slow and the fact that the shard to thread conversion rate is pitifully awful (since a 10:10 conversion is actually losing 80% value)
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I don't mind giving up Astral and Empyrean Merits if I can unlock 75% of the content solo. I don't mind not having all the same options those that do the Incarnate Trials have.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
As long as this arc also granted an emp merit at completion (once per day as per itrial,) astral merits (as per itrials) and random threads, I'd be all for it. Again, make the enemies level 54 to keep it all comparable.
I'd still much rather see the shard system dumped as unnecessary. |
But I will admit that have at least one other path would be nice.
How about a way to get Astrals and Emps through certain Challenge Settings in Oro.
210 50s and still counting!
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Why do people keep assuming it's iTrials OR soloing?|
Originally Posted by Furio
If one isn't doing the trials for *whatever* reason, where is the *need* for solo incarnate power acquisition at a faster rate?
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I like the trials, I play them often...when I have the TIME. A reasonable solo option would allow me to still advance my hero or villain when I only have time for a mission or two instead of a Trial.
I WANT the power of the Incarnate because it makes my character more powerful.
My Defender now has perma mezz protection and you are seriously asking people that want to solo why they want additional powers?
It's so effing obvious the question doesn't NEED to be answered.
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I am not necessarily opposed to this, but the unlocking process for Lore, Destiny, Judgement and Interface is inherently tied to the reward structure of incarnate content through iXP. Being able to unlock them via a story arc would throw that reward structure out of whack unless the story arc was either very long or very repetitive. It doesn't make business sense to develop an entire story arc that will essentially negate a huge chuck of the reward structure for content that was both recently created and is still in the development process for a string of future releases.|
Originally Posted by Charnage
Another addition to my idea would be to add a story arc that allowed for each Incarnate power to be unlocked.
Maybe they plan on doing this once Paragon Points comes out. But a story arc for each Incarnate Power would be nice. I wouldn't mind if it was something like a Patron arc, with its 10-20 missions to complete, if it was meant to be similar to the grind of Incarnate Trials. Would anyone be opposed to something like this? |
A story arc are will never fully unlock the slots like we recieved for Alpha. The best solution would be a story arc granting some iXP as a reward at the end, but it would need to be a fraction of what is earned through iTrials on a per-time basis and temporally gated at 20 hours.
I would like the solo path buffed somewhat and I would definitely love the incarnate building process to be easier (less complex to use that is - edited for clarification). I find it a bit overwhelming compared to the ease of inventions.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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No, I'm asking why, from the dev standpoint, would they feel the need to add a quicker solo method to get near-gamebreaking levels of power when they don't have content to use it in yet? \|
Originally Posted by Clouded
Why do people keep assuming it's iTrials OR soloing?
I like the trials, I play them often...when I have the TIME. A reasonable solo option would allow me to still advance my hero or villain when I only have time for a mission or two instead of a Trial. I WANT the power of the Incarnate because it makes my character more powerful. My Defender now has perma mezz protection and you are seriously asking people that want to solo why they want additional powers? It's so effing obvious the question doesn't NEED to be answered. |
Like I said, I fully expect there to be solo/normal team incarnate content at some point in the future...and at that point in time, I'd also expect there to be a much-expedited solo-incarnate power accrual method. I just don't see the need for it NAO!!! when the only designed content for the incarnate powers is, the trials.
Honestly, I'm a bit surprised that all we give up is the level-shifts when we're not in a trial.
Furio--Lvl 50+3 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster, Virtue
Megadeth--Lvl 50+3 Necro/DM/Soul MM, Virtue
Veriandros--Lvl 50+3 Crab Soldier, Virtue
"So come and get me! I'll be waiting for ye, with a whiff of the old brimstone. I'm a grim bloody fable, with an unhappy bloody end!" Demoman, TF2
Sorry but I have to say I do like running the trials, I am playing this game BECAUSE I would rather play in a social environment than play single player console games. The trials are fun but on underpopulated servers are already hard to run and at times hard to initiate.
That being said, making solo incarnate content would pull people away from the trials in favor of soloing especially if it were easier, so why in the world would the Devs be silly enough to do such a thing when the idea is to create MORE teaming not destroy what already exists.
I am sorry but this entire train of thought is not really conducive to maintaining any type of healthy teaming environment which is the ENTIRE purpose of any good MMO. The more people team, make friends, enjoy the game, spread the word, invite others to play (the more money the game makes @_@ ) the longer it stays around. Honestly the whining and SOLO FIRST mentality are what Drag MMO's down. IF you dont like it all I can say again is X-BOX.
The devs have gone out of their way to make amends for some of the garbage that was spewed at us in previous issues. Most of us on vent discuss this (some of it laughingly) and all agree that the recent additions to the game are what we have been searching for, To bad it wasn't released over 2 years sooner this game might still be thriving. The Devs are currently on track however, according to most. And as for the un-silent minority of Soloist's. I am sorry but I honestly hope they turn a Deaf ear to all of you at this point. We need more Team related content not more reasons to abandon it.
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It hasn't in seven years. It won't now.
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Originally Posted by Blacier
Soloing will destroy the game!!!
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Be well, people of CoH.
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Is it really that hard to figure out why people who solo want the social environment as well? Again, are you buying me an XBox? You going to buy me those games I'm going to like to play even though there is no XBox counterpart to CoH, and XBox titles "tend" to be FPS games, which I can't stand? Really, I have way more single player games than I likely ever play. Thank you Steam sales. Let's say I play on one of the smaller servers that at one point it took me about an hour during prime playing time to get on a ITF when it was the WTF. Now, how easy do you think it's going to be able to do that if someone logs on during odd hours? I've had shifts that made me grateful I got on even four person teams. Trials? (laughs)
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Originally Posted by Blacier
I am playing this game BECAUSE I would rather play in a social environment than play single player console games. IF you dont like it all I can say again is X-BOX.
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Solo first was this game's bread and butter until 2011. If it was all that bad for a couple of years prior to that (years that I didn't think required any amends), why didn't you take your own advice and go somewhere else instead of hanging around waiting for things to change?
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Originally Posted by Blacier
The more people team, make friends, enjoy the game, spread the word, invite others to play (the more money the game makes @_@ ) the longer it stays around. Honestly the whining and SOLO FIRST mentality are what Drag MMO's down. IF you dont like it all I can say again is X-BOX.
The devs have gone out of their way to make amends for some of the garbage that was spewed at us in previous issues. Most of us on vent discuss this (some of it laughingly) and all agree that the recent additions to the game are what we have been searching for, To bad it wasn't released over 2 years sooner this game might still be thriving. |
On Liberty:
Aardwolf - level 50 claws/invulnerability scrapper
Anchor - level 50 level gravity/forcefield controller
Dr. Dusk - level 50 mercenaries/dark miasma mastermind
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He doesn't care about that part. It doesn't flow with his sound bites properly.
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Originally Posted by Santorican
So how do I get shines if I don't grind?
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Be well, people of CoH.
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Good one! |
Originally Posted by Santorican
So how do I get shines if I don't grind?
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It's a bit sad to me that there are people so dug in here that they're probably asking that for real.
We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
(If you love this game as much as I do, please read that post.)
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Stop saying this. It's absurd. |
Originally Posted by Furio
I just don't see the need for it NAO!!! .
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No one here is asking for it right now.
Are we now to the point of making up stuff to try and invalidate others opinions?
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HI. |
Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
If you choose to limit yourself to a single vector of play, I don't think it's up to the developers to make it a completely viable option from 1-50 and from Alpha to Omega (and beyond).
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You may have missed my post earlier.
I play the trials and I would like a reasonable solo path. Why? I'm glad you asked.
As I've stated previously...sometimes my only ability to play this game is for 20-30 min increments. I've tried to run trials in those times and the consequences were an angry wife and a pissed off doctor for being late to our appointment.
So, I want a solo progression that is reasonable for the times when I can't run a trial. Right now I just don't login when I only have 20 mins to play. With a reasonable path, I could still get a mission or two completed towards my incarante abilities.
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What I find extremely hilarious in reading TonyV's posts on this subject is that, him being a poster who has so often over the years posted diatribes against farming in the game is now a zealot for farming, as long as it has the dev-stamp of approval, and is labeled a "trial".
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Originally Posted by TonyV
Good one!
It's a bit sad to me that there are people so dug in here that they're probably asking that for real. |
@Doctor Gemini
Arc #271637 - Welcome to M.A.G.I. - An alternative first story arc for magic origin heroes. At Hero Registration you heard the jokes about Azuria always losing things. When she loses the entire M.A.G.I. vault, you are chosen to find it.
What I consider reasonable is the equitable level of time to rewards for soloists that exists in every other part of this game.
The time it takes me to solo to 50 versus the time it takes a player that teams all the time is currently reasonable in my opinion.
The time it takes me to solo to an IO build versus someone that teams I also consider reasonable.
The time it takes me to earn the inf necessary to buy a PvP unique IO versus the time it takes someone who AFK farms for them is equitable in my opinion.
This is not the case for incarnate advancement. I consider this wrong. Not fair. Not equitable. Not in line with the rest of the game. Not reasonable or rational.
EDIT: Great. Now I'm channeling Mordin Solus.
Be well, people of CoH.