Testing Shards to Incarnate Progression


Ahab001

 

Posted

Good point, Doctor.


 

Posted

Apparently, people trolling in this thread see nothing else between these two points on a line:
NAO <-----> 600 hours for a single tier 3


But whatever... insanity is a prime component of the natural human condition, so I'm hardly surprised.


@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"
-Dylan

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyV View Post
The practical, real, viable, personally witnessed ACTUAL IN-USE BY MOST PLAYERS alternative to grinding trials is simply... hold on because this is going to blow your mind...

Not grinding trials.
The "eat your spinach or go to bed early" argument still won't convince me. Nor make me any happier.


Still @Shadow Kitty

"I became Archvillain before Statesman nerfed himself!"

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor_Gemini View Post
What I find extremely hilarious in reading TonyV's posts on this subject is that, him being a poster who has so often over the years posted diatribes against farming in the game is now a zealot for farming, as long as it has the dev-stamp of approval, and is labeled a "trial".
I had to lol at this.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
I see you have a team vs solo account of how long it takes to get rewards. But nothing said of why one would even need the abilities solo.
Which is completely besides the point.

Why level up?

Why slot sets?

Why get accolades?

Why get vet status and abilities?

BECAUSE IT IS THERE TO BE GOTTEN!

Trying to convince yourself that you *need* powers for the raids, but soloists don't is merely elitism.



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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ View Post
you mean Very Rare = 4 Rares, right?
Yes. Sorry. Typo

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Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master View Post
the most suprising thing to me is that they almost ignored the apex/tin mage stuff

those things ARE incarnate content, but they are treated barely above a regular tf

making tin mage and apex drop threads and award components in a way similar to the trials would solve many problems (not a solo route, but for those who dislike trials)
They aren't ignoring them at all. They just upped the rewards you can get from them. Threads, astral merits, and super insps now. Its not how you said you wanted them to change, but they aren't being ignored. See the 20.5 patch notes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatea View Post
Patch notes for build 2050.201106210214.1

TASKS

Apex Task Force
  • The Apex Task Force now rewards players with a choice between 1 Astral Merit, 10 Incarnate Threads, or 1 Super Inspiration for completing it. This Astral Merit can only be earned once per day, while the Thread and Inspiration rewards may be claimed as many times as the TF is completed.

Tin Mage Task Force
  • The Tin Mage Task Force now rewards players with a choice between 1 Astral Merit, 10 Incarnate Threads, or 1 Super Inspiration for completing it. This Astral Merit can only be earned once per day, while the Thread and Inspiration rewards may be claimed as many times as the TF is completed.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyV View Post
No, you're wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, and yet wrong some more.
And I should take YOUR word over mathematics...why?

Quote:
And this mentality is why there is so much trolling and flamebaiting going on.
In which you're participating. Enthusiastically I might add.



Quote:
The practical, real, viable, personally witnessed ACTUAL IN-USE BY MOST PLAYERS alternative to grinding trials is simply... hold on because this is going to blow your mind...

Not grinding trials.
Thank you for completely misunderstanding the actual point.

The point is not "don't want to grind". It is "Want a viable ALTERNATIVE to trials".

Maybe when you're ready to discuss this in a civil manner, we can pick this up again. Until then...



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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouded View Post
Stop saying this. It's absurd.

No one here is asking for it right now.

Are we now to the point of making up stuff to try and invalidate others opinions?
Would you mind addressing the rest of the post? I would seriously like an answer to it. Why would the devs want to make access to near-gamebreaking powerlevels easier for those that don't want to do trials, when trials are the only content currently designed for that power?

Never mind the fact that the fact that people are continuing to make threads about the (intentional) inefficiency of solo-earning incarnate stuff is akin to asking for it NAO (even though all involved should understand the basics of how PS developments content and the kind of timeframes they deal with)


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Posted

I just want to clarify one thing.

There are 3 groups of people here.

1. Those that like to solo strictly, like Billz, and do the trials because it's the only reasonable progression for incarante abilities.

2. Those that run the trials but also enjoy soloing, like me. I've run more trials than I know of and I have 1 character with all T4 and 2 others with T3s. My goal is to be able to make meaningfull progression on my incarnate abilities while soloing.

3. Those that run the trials only. They like em and run em.

I don't see why there has to be such animosity towards anyone of these groups. It really is below this community to act like this.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furio View Post
I would seriously like an answer to it. Why would the devs want to make access to near-gamebreaking powerlevels easier for those that don't want to do trials, when trials are the only content currently designed for that power?
What do you mean? I can use judgement, lore pets, Clarion and Reactive just fine outside of the trials. I love having them now as these powers fill in gaps or weaknesses in my builds. Dark/Sonic defender now has AoE damage (Void), Pets, more damage (reactive) and mezz protection (clarion).

I don't understand your question and why it's only limited to those running trials.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Furio View Post
Never mind the fact that the fact that people are continuing to make threads about the (intentional) inefficiency of solo-earning incarnate stuff is akin to asking for it NAO (even though all involved should understand the basics of how PS developments content and the kind of timeframes they deal with)
If we don't make it clearn NOW, then it could get put off until I22, or I23 or further.

Why does it bother you that others are requesting an option to the current method of advancement for incarnate abilities?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Furio View Post
Would you mind addressing the rest of the post? I would seriously like an answer to it. Why would the devs want to make access to near-gamebreaking powerlevels easier for those that don't want to do trials, when trials are the only content currently designed for that power?

Never mind the fact that the fact that people are continuing to make threads about the (intentional) inefficiency of solo-earning incarnate stuff is akin to asking for it NAO (even though all involved should understand the basics of how PS developments content and the kind of timeframes they deal with)
Why would the devs introduce near-gamebreaking powerlevels in a way that all you had to do was farm two trials for a few hours a night over the course of less than two weeks?

That's a good question.

Of course the followup questions is why would they do so in a way that ONLY farming those two trials gets you there?

That's a better question.


Be well, people of CoH.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Furio View Post
Would you mind addressing the rest of the post? I would seriously like an answer to it. Why would the devs want to make access to near-gamebreaking powerlevels easier for those that don't want to do trials, when trials are the only content currently designed for that power?

Never mind the fact that the fact that people are continuing to make threads about the (intentional) inefficiency of solo-earning incarnate stuff is akin to asking for it NAO (even though all involved should understand the basics of how PS developments content and the kind of timeframes they deal with)
If Incarnate Powers didn't exist/function at all outside of Trials, this line of thought might make sense...
That, however, is not the case.

Add in other people's logical responses and I think you've gotten your answers.


@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"
-Dylan

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike View Post
GRINDING TRIALS
I enjoy the trials. I spent last weekend doing different trials on different characters that already have all their T4's, and I was having lots of fun--I also spent time soloing on some lower level characters. I HATE grinding anything. And if I ever felt like I was grinding I would stop doing whatever I was doing immediately. As a percentage of playstyle on a typical character from levels 1 to 50 I probably solo that character at least 85% to 90% of the time--so I like soloing. It feels appropriate to me that at level 50 the type of challenges I face should be significant enough that I need to be on a Team or League to confront it. I love having Trials available for my 50's. But I never focus on doing a single trial over and over again to the point it feels like a grind.

TonyV, you are my hero. Thank you for what you contribute to the game through ParagonWiki and through your posts on these forums. I feel like your opinion on most topics matches my own.

Bill, thank you also for your contributions, and this thread in particular. I think what you want for solo-mostly players is very reasonable. So reasonable in fact that I'm almost sure the Devs will address the 'solo' incarnate option in the future (soon I hope as well).


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba View Post
Why would the devs introduce near-gamebreaking powerlevels in a way that all you had to do was farm two trials for a few hours a night over the course of less than two weeks?

That's a good question.

Of course the followup questions is why would they do so in a way that ONLY farming those two trials gets you there?

That's a better question.
To promote teaming and unity through:
A) semi difficult challenges
B) Organization (<----something that you cannot rate difficulty wise in a solo mish because it doesn't exist, nor can it be duplicated.)

For 1 it takes time and patience to set up a team As well as waiting for it to begin as the leader('s) set up the team('s)

second it takes organization (especially during the learning phase, which some avoid all together) in order to direct 24 people to focus on a common set of goals (<---again something you CANNOT duplicate in the difficulty ratings of a solo mish,arc, whatever)

And third you have leaders (<--- yes in the world of teaming such a thing does exist) that do set up the trials as well as Defer to other leaders amongst their peers in order to accomplish said goals/tasks etc.. Again something that cannot be duplicated in a solo mish.

Also there is the sense of accomplishment amongst the group and the sense of community that some develop during the course of the teaming which is conducive to a healthy MMO. Quite possibly you may achieve sense of satisfaction while soloing and accomplishing tremendous solo feats, but that is all. In the end, who is there to share it with you? The only thing you are able to do at that point is become a selfless braggart, and those are a dime a dozen.

So maybe the devs are rewarding us FOR teaming, FOR organizing, FOR being able to muster together (as intended) and learn/Excel/overcome the trials but paving our path to glory by giving us rewards to unlock the "Game-Breaking" powers you speak of.

If you want then they have laid out the path to get them, and if you don't want to do it the FAST way then you can grind it out 1 shard at a time. The solo path is clear as well... Enjoy it.


 

Posted

I have already lead 3 lambdas and a BAF. It wasn't an effort any more than logging into the game. It was a nuisance.

Here's lambda.
Repeat call to global and broadcast that trial is forming.
As players join, place in appropriate group. Equalize ATs.
Once desired league size is attained, queue it up.
Run lap. Clear courtyard. Clear guns.
Split up. Blow items up.
Give all grenades to appropriate player.
Close doors with acid.
Keep Marauder pacified.

Repeat. Yea, it's SOOO very difficult. No wait, it isn't. It's annoying. Especially that part where I'm standing around doing nothing but clicking invite to league/move to team X.

I could be killin stuff instead if only there were some other viable way to get the shinies.


Be well, people of CoH.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight View Post
This stance is such bull...
MMORPGS are not all about teaming for missions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Scorpion View Post
On the other claw, sometimes in developing a massively multiplayer game we are going to have content which encourages and rewards multiplayer play.
It's important to read what the devs say, so you can get a handle on their thinking and where they're coming from.


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouded View Post
If we don't make it clearn NOW, then it could get put off until I22, or I23 or further.

Why does it bother you that others are requesting an option to the current method of advancement for incarnate abilities?
Nothing bothers me about requesting things. What irks me is people's expectations of the time frame that things are going to get done. It takes a significant amount of time to produce good content that could be used to accomplish this. Since they've announced what is going to be in issue 21 already, at this point they probably aren't going to squeeze any more into it if its not there already. It may be already, we don't know. They are probably well into issue 22 development as well currently and at least planning 23 and maybe even 24 at this point.

21, unless its already in there or planned for, probably won't see any changes toward a solo path. 22 is possible, as is further into the future. Just make sure your expectations on the speed of the reaction from the devs is intact.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Scorpion View Post
... On the other claw, sometimes in developing a massively multiplayer game we are going to have content which encourages and rewards multiplayer play.
It's important to read what the devs say, so you can get a handle on their thinking and where they're coming from.
Indeed.
It's also important to see what he did not say... That encouraging multiplayer play should punish the small team or solo player (which the current system clearly does).

.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by AquaJAWS View Post
Nothing bothers me about requesting things. What irks me is people's expectations of the time frame that things are going to get done. It takes a significant amount of time to produce good content that could be used to accomplish this. Since they've announced what is going to be in issue 21 already, at this point they probably aren't going to squeeze any more into it if its not there already. It may be already, we don't know. They are probably well into issue 22 development as well currently and at least planning 23 and maybe even 24 at this point.

21, unless its already in there or planned for, probably won't see any changes toward a solo path. 22 is possible, as is further into the future. Just make sure your expectations on the speed of the reaction from the devs is intact.
Which is precisely why my primary request, getting rid of shards completely and replacing them with threads, doesn't involve creating new content.


Be well, people of CoH.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
It's important to read what the devs say, so you can get a handle on their thinking and where they're coming from.
Wow, GG...
Perhaps it is important to read it. Go ahead.
Next time, I'd suggest reading the developer quotes and the actual words in the conversation you are using those quotes to make a point... and make sure that it says what you want it to.


@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"
-Dylan

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba View Post
Of course the followup questions is why would they do so in a way that ONLY farming those two trials gets you there?
They aren't ONLY putting 2 trials out there. Currently live in game there are 3, a 4th is in beta. They've said a 5th is in dev. Other stuff is surely planned that we don't even know of and we won't until its nearly out.

Their options were wait possibly years and spend time only producing a TON of content only to drop all of it on everyone all at once while suspending other development in order to get it out in a reasonable amount of time...OR they could put out 1-2 new things at a time, split resources on other things out there for everyone else that's not incarnate. These things take time.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba View Post
Which is precisely why my primary request, getting rid of shards completely and replacing them with threads, doesn't involve creating new content.
It still takes effort from the team to take out all of the shards and put in threads. Then its still a grind, just not of the incarnate trials and we'll have other issues from another group of people. You can't please everyone.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight View Post
Wow, GG...
Perhaps it is important to read it. Go ahead.
Next time, I'd suggest reading the developer quotes and the actual words in the conversation you are using those quotes to make a point... and make sure that it says what you want it to.
I did


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Internet forums (and really most "discussions" with unreasonable people) always remind me of playing tennis with someone...
Where the other person hits the ball.. it lands out of bounds, but they claim it was in... there is no judge to make the call... you hit the ball back in their court... they let it bounce three times before hitting it back... it lands out of bounds (but you still hit it back into the far corner of their court) and they just jump up and down with their arms stretched out above them proclaiming victory.

A bunch of people all gather around for this "match" and some chime in with their opinions of what did or didn't happen, right or wrong, and some just like to fuel the fire and side with the person who is blatantly wrong (just for sport).

Tennis is a fun game.
Communicating and conversing with intelligent people is a wonderfully fun thing to do.

Having inane back-and-forths with people unwilling to be reasonable is absurdly annoying.


@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"
-Dylan

 

Posted

Why do I get the feeling that I should have posted my ideas to the suggestion and ideas part of the forum. I was not trying to derail the thread. I was trying to give out ideas for a viable alternative, and attempting to reply with consideration and some measuse of humor.

I believe if you don't like something, you should come up with a possible solution. Heck, I don't care if you think me a loon, but if you have another idea that might work, by all means, share. Maybe in the end we can get something in the middle and more than half the people talking about it will be moderately content.

Anyone have a better idea than the two I have talked about a few dozen posts back?


210 50s and still counting!