Testing Shards to Incarnate Progression
By
Ahab001,
Posted on: 2011-06-29 21:41 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Apparently, people trolling in this thread see nothing else between these two points on a line:
NAO <-----> 600 hours for a single tier 3
But whatever... insanity is a prime component of the natural human condition, so I'm hardly surprised.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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The "eat your spinach or go to bed early" argument still won't convince me. Nor make me any happier.
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Originally Posted by TonyV
The practical, real, viable, personally witnessed ACTUAL IN-USE BY MOST PLAYERS alternative to grinding trials is simply... hold on because this is going to blow your mind...
Not grinding trials. |
Still @Shadow Kitty
"I became Archvillain before Statesman nerfed himself!"
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I had to lol at this. |
Originally Posted by Doctor_Gemini
What I find extremely hilarious in reading TonyV's posts on this subject is that, him being a poster who has so often over the years posted diatribes against farming in the game is now a zealot for farming, as long as it has the dev-stamp of approval, and is labeled a "trial".
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Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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Which is completely besides the point.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
I see you have a team vs solo account of how long it takes to get rewards. But nothing said of why one would even need the abilities solo.
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Why level up?
Why slot sets?
Why get accolades?
Why get vet status and abilities?
BECAUSE IT IS THERE TO BE GOTTEN!
Trying to convince yourself that you *need* powers for the raids, but soloists don't is merely elitism.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Yes. Sorry. Typo|
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ
you mean Very Rare = 4 Rares, right?
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Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
the most suprising thing to me is that they almost ignored the apex/tin mage stuff
those things ARE incarnate content, but they are treated barely above a regular tf making tin mage and apex drop threads and award components in a way similar to the trials would solve many problems (not a solo route, but for those who dislike trials) |
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Originally Posted by Avatea
Patch notes for build 2050.201106210214.1
TASKS Apex Task Force
Tin Mage Task Force
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And I should take YOUR word over mathematics...why?|
Originally Posted by TonyV
No, you're wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, and yet wrong some more.
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| And this mentality is why there is so much trolling and flamebaiting going on. |
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The practical, real, viable, personally witnessed ACTUAL IN-USE BY MOST PLAYERS alternative to grinding trials is simply... hold on because this is going to blow your mind... Not grinding trials. |
The point is not "don't want to grind". It is "Want a viable ALTERNATIVE to trials".
Maybe when you're ready to discuss this in a civil manner, we can pick this up again. Until then...
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Would you mind addressing the rest of the post? I would seriously like an answer to it. Why would the devs want to make access to near-gamebreaking powerlevels easier for those that don't want to do trials, when trials are the only content currently designed for that power?|
Originally Posted by Clouded
Stop saying this. It's absurd.
No one here is asking for it right now. Are we now to the point of making up stuff to try and invalidate others opinions? |
Never mind the fact that the fact that people are continuing to make threads about the (intentional) inefficiency of solo-earning incarnate stuff is akin to asking for it NAO (even though all involved should understand the basics of how PS developments content and the kind of timeframes they deal with)
Furio--Lvl 50+3 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster, Virtue
Megadeth--Lvl 50+3 Necro/DM/Soul MM, Virtue
Veriandros--Lvl 50+3 Crab Soldier, Virtue
"So come and get me! I'll be waiting for ye, with a whiff of the old brimstone. I'm a grim bloody fable, with an unhappy bloody end!" Demoman, TF2
I just want to clarify one thing.
There are 3 groups of people here.
1. Those that like to solo strictly, like Billz, and do the trials because it's the only reasonable progression for incarante abilities.
2. Those that run the trials but also enjoy soloing, like me. I've run more trials than I know of and I have 1 character with all T4 and 2 others with T3s. My goal is to be able to make meaningfull progression on my incarnate abilities while soloing.
3. Those that run the trials only. They like em and run em.
I don't see why there has to be such animosity towards anyone of these groups. It really is below this community to act like this.
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What do you mean? I can use judgement, lore pets, Clarion and Reactive just fine outside of the trials. I love having them now as these powers fill in gaps or weaknesses in my builds. Dark/Sonic defender now has AoE damage (Void), Pets, more damage (reactive) and mezz protection (clarion). |
Originally Posted by Furio
I would seriously like an answer to it. Why would the devs want to make access to near-gamebreaking powerlevels easier for those that don't want to do trials, when trials are the only content currently designed for that power?
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I don't understand your question and why it's only limited to those running trials.
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Originally Posted by Furio
Never mind the fact that the fact that people are continuing to make threads about the (intentional) inefficiency of solo-earning incarnate stuff is akin to asking for it NAO (even though all involved should understand the basics of how PS developments content and the kind of timeframes they deal with)
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Why does it bother you that others are requesting an option to the current method of advancement for incarnate abilities?
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Why would the devs introduce near-gamebreaking powerlevels in a way that all you had to do was farm two trials for a few hours a night over the course of less than two weeks?|
Originally Posted by Furio
Would you mind addressing the rest of the post? I would seriously like an answer to it. Why would the devs want to make access to near-gamebreaking powerlevels easier for those that don't want to do trials, when trials are the only content currently designed for that power?
Never mind the fact that the fact that people are continuing to make threads about the (intentional) inefficiency of solo-earning incarnate stuff is akin to asking for it NAO (even though all involved should understand the basics of how PS developments content and the kind of timeframes they deal with) |
That's a good question.
Of course the followup questions is why would they do so in a way that ONLY farming those two trials gets you there?
That's a better question.
Be well, people of CoH.
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If Incarnate Powers didn't exist/function at all outside of Trials, this line of thought might make sense...|
Originally Posted by Furio
Would you mind addressing the rest of the post? I would seriously like an answer to it. Why would the devs want to make access to near-gamebreaking powerlevels easier for those that don't want to do trials, when trials are the only content currently designed for that power?
Never mind the fact that the fact that people are continuing to make threads about the (intentional) inefficiency of solo-earning incarnate stuff is akin to asking for it NAO (even though all involved should understand the basics of how PS developments content and the kind of timeframes they deal with) |
That, however, is not the case.
Add in other people's logical responses and I think you've gotten your answers.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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I enjoy the trials. I spent last weekend doing different trials on different characters that already have all their T4's, and I was having lots of fun--I also spent time soloing on some lower level characters. I HATE grinding anything. And if I ever felt like I was grinding I would stop doing whatever I was doing immediately. As a percentage of playstyle on a typical character from levels 1 to 50 I probably solo that character at least 85% to 90% of the time--so I like soloing. It feels appropriate to me that at level 50 the type of challenges I face should be significant enough that I need to be on a Team or League to confront it. I love having Trials available for my 50's. But I never focus on doing a single trial over and over again to the point it feels like a grind.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
GRINDING TRIALS
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TonyV, you are my hero. Thank you for what you contribute to the game through ParagonWiki and through your posts on these forums. I feel like your opinion on most topics matches my own.
Bill, thank you also for your contributions, and this thread in particular. I think what you want for solo-mostly players is very reasonable. So reasonable in fact that I'm almost sure the Devs will address the 'solo' incarnate option in the future (soon I hope as well).
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To promote teaming and unity through:|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Why would the devs introduce near-gamebreaking powerlevels in a way that all you had to do was farm two trials for a few hours a night over the course of less than two weeks?
That's a good question. Of course the followup questions is why would they do so in a way that ONLY farming those two trials gets you there? That's a better question. |
A) semi difficult challenges
B) Organization (<----something that you cannot rate difficulty wise in a solo mish because it doesn't exist, nor can it be duplicated.)
For 1 it takes time and patience to set up a team As well as waiting for it to begin as the leader('s) set up the team('s)
second it takes organization (especially during the learning phase, which some avoid all together) in order to direct 24 people to focus on a common set of goals (<---again something you CANNOT duplicate in the difficulty ratings of a solo mish,arc, whatever)
And third you have leaders (<--- yes in the world of teaming such a thing does exist) that do set up the trials as well as Defer to other leaders amongst their peers in order to accomplish said goals/tasks etc.. Again something that cannot be duplicated in a solo mish.
Also there is the sense of accomplishment amongst the group and the sense of community that some develop during the course of the teaming which is conducive to a healthy MMO. Quite possibly you may achieve sense of satisfaction while soloing and accomplishing tremendous solo feats, but that is all. In the end, who is there to share it with you? The only thing you are able to do at that point is become a selfless braggart, and those are a dime a dozen.
So maybe the devs are rewarding us FOR teaming, FOR organizing, FOR being able to muster together (as intended) and learn/Excel/overcome the trials but paving our path to glory by giving us rewards to unlock the "Game-Breaking" powers you speak of.
If you want then they have laid out the path to get them, and if you don't want to do it the FAST way then you can grind it out 1 shard at a time. The solo path is clear as well... Enjoy it.
I have already lead 3 lambdas and a BAF. It wasn't an effort any more than logging into the game. It was a nuisance.
Here's lambda.
Repeat call to global and broadcast that trial is forming.
As players join, place in appropriate group. Equalize ATs.
Once desired league size is attained, queue it up.
Run lap. Clear courtyard. Clear guns.
Split up. Blow items up.
Give all grenades to appropriate player.
Close doors with acid.
Keep Marauder pacified.
Repeat. Yea, it's SOOO very difficult. No wait, it isn't. It's annoying. Especially that part where I'm standing around doing nothing but clicking invite to league/move to team X.
I could be killin stuff instead if only there were some other viable way to get the shinies.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
This stance is such bull...
MMORPGS are not all about teaming for missions. |
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Originally Posted by Black Scorpion
On the other claw, sometimes in developing a massively multiplayer game we are going to have content which encourages and rewards multiplayer play.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Nothing bothers me about requesting things. What irks me is people's expectations of the time frame that things are going to get done. It takes a significant amount of time to produce good content that could be used to accomplish this. Since they've announced what is going to be in issue 21 already, at this point they probably aren't going to squeeze any more into it if its not there already. It may be already, we don't know. They are probably well into issue 22 development as well currently and at least planning 23 and maybe even 24 at this point.|
Originally Posted by Clouded
If we don't make it clearn NOW, then it could get put off until I22, or I23 or further.
Why does it bother you that others are requesting an option to the current method of advancement for incarnate abilities? |
21, unless its already in there or planned for, probably won't see any changes toward a solo path. 22 is possible, as is further into the future. Just make sure your expectations on the speed of the reaction from the devs is intact.
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Indeed.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
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It's also important to see what he did not say... That encouraging multiplayer play should punish the small team or solo player (which the current system clearly does).
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Don�t say things. What you are stands over you the while, and thunders so that I cannot hear what you say to the contrary. - R.W. Emerson |
YUMMY Low-Hanging Fruit for BASE LUV
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Which is precisely why my primary request, getting rid of shards completely and replacing them with threads, doesn't involve creating new content.
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Originally Posted by AquaJAWS
Nothing bothers me about requesting things. What irks me is people's expectations of the time frame that things are going to get done. It takes a significant amount of time to produce good content that could be used to accomplish this. Since they've announced what is going to be in issue 21 already, at this point they probably aren't going to squeeze any more into it if its not there already. It may be already, we don't know. They are probably well into issue 22 development as well currently and at least planning 23 and maybe even 24 at this point.
21, unless its already in there or planned for, probably won't see any changes toward a solo path. 22 is possible, as is further into the future. Just make sure your expectations on the speed of the reaction from the devs is intact. |
Be well, people of CoH.
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Wow, GG...|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
It's important to read what the devs say, so you can get a handle on their thinking and where they're coming from.
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Perhaps it is important to read it. Go ahead.
Next time, I'd suggest reading the developer quotes and the actual words in the conversation you are using those quotes to make a point... and make sure that it says what you want it to.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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They aren't ONLY putting 2 trials out there. Currently live in game there are 3, a 4th is in beta. They've said a 5th is in dev. Other stuff is surely planned that we don't even know of and we won't until its nearly out.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Of course the followup questions is why would they do so in a way that ONLY farming those two trials gets you there?
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Their options were wait possibly years and spend time only producing a TON of content only to drop all of it on everyone all at once while suspending other development in order to get it out in a reasonable amount of time...OR they could put out 1-2 new things at a time, split resources on other things out there for everyone else that's not incarnate. These things take time.
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It still takes effort from the team to take out all of the shards and put in threads. Then its still a grind, just not of the incarnate trials and we'll have other issues from another group of people. You can't please everyone.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Which is precisely why my primary request, getting rid of shards completely and replacing them with threads, doesn't involve creating new content.
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I did |
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
Wow, GG...
Perhaps it is important to read it. Go ahead. Next time, I'd suggest reading the developer quotes and the actual words in the conversation you are using those quotes to make a point... and make sure that it says what you want it to. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Internet forums (and really most "discussions" with unreasonable people) always remind me of playing tennis with someone...
Where the other person hits the ball.. it lands out of bounds, but they claim it was in... there is no judge to make the call... you hit the ball back in their court... they let it bounce three times before hitting it back... it lands out of bounds (but you still hit it back into the far corner of their court) and they just jump up and down with their arms stretched out above them proclaiming victory.
A bunch of people all gather around for this "match" and some chime in with their opinions of what did or didn't happen, right or wrong, and some just like to fuel the fire and side with the person who is blatantly wrong (just for sport).
Tennis is a fun game.
Communicating and conversing with intelligent people is a wonderfully fun thing to do.
Having inane back-and-forths with people unwilling to be reasonable is absurdly annoying.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Why do I get the feeling that I should have posted my ideas to the suggestion and ideas part of the forum. I was not trying to derail the thread. I was trying to give out ideas for a viable alternative, and attempting to reply with consideration and some measuse of humor.
I believe if you don't like something, you should come up with a possible solution. Heck, I don't care if you think me a loon, but if you have another idea that might work, by all means, share. Maybe in the end we can get something in the middle and more than half the people talking about it will be moderately content.
Anyone have a better idea than the two I have talked about a few dozen posts back?
210 50s and still counting!
Good point, Doctor.