Mandatory Pool Powers

By game design, skipping a travel power is "doing it wrong", albeit a "doing it wrong" now so common among the playerbase as to no longer be called out. The fact that there are now so many non-pool methods of acquiring rapid travel is an artefact of the game's age, and not part of the central design (which has not, in fact, changed significantly in seven years.)

So, yes, when considering your character's design, everyone will have to consider what (not "if any") pool powers actually meet the design. As many have mentioned, there are a plethora of pool powers that will fit nearly any concept (any character I could conceive of that would have no legitimate excuse to pick up any of the physical attack powers, for instance, really has no excuse not to pick up a couple leadership powers.)

I doubt anyone would even ask. I have plenty of toons with a power they don't use that they took to get to a later power in the set. Also, plenty of people take powers just to slot IO sets.

This is pretty much my take on the matter, thus the confusion expressed in my first post. (Also, i've been drinking, but that started long after my initial post in this thread.)

Is it bad that it took me a few minutes to actually see what was off about this?

... eh, don't think I'd agree with that.

Is there anything you can't complete without a travel power? Is your AT/powerset crippled in any real way by not having one? ("Getting to the mission somewhat slower" isn't really "crippled.") Travel powers are a convenience.

For comparison, I'd say (and I don't think I'd get much disagreement) that, say, a tanker skipping their status protection power *is* "doing it wrong" and crippling themselves. Without that status protection, their ability to play as a tanker - or even just "as melee" - is severely compromised.

Somewhat less absolute (but that you'd still get people agreeing on) would be, say, a Stalker not taking their Assassin Strike. While they can still scrap and get crits from hide on most powers, that's most powersets "big hit," and by being given so early (6) in the AT's sets, it's really designed with it in mind.

Travel powers just don't warrant that same "must have" level. (Admittedly most people don't skip them, but again - convenience, plus (often) other useful things in the pool.)

See my Guides and Tutorials

See, this I can get behind. I've always felt that pool powers should open much earlier in the game. Not quite as early as 24, granted, but earlier just the same.

On the other hand, riddle me this: You're playing a Katana/Super Reflexes Scrapper. What Epic pool is there that clashes with your powers less than, say, Fighting or Speed or Leaping?

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Arguably, the Terra Volta trial. There are paths up to the final level of the reactor complex, and I've taken them up, but most people don't know they exist and a fair few aren't skilled enough at moving about the world to use them.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Weapons Mastery? You get shuriken , caltrops, and web grenades.

EDIT: Assuming your playing some sort of Ninja-style character.

My point precisely. If, like me, you opted for the Metal Gear style of Katana user and threw in a bit more sci-fi, then a more appropriate epic for you would be futuristic guns, either in the rifle or dual pistols variety. Or if you picked a... *ahem* Energy Sword weapon, you may want to use Force Lightning, instead.

What I mean to say is that while Pools are as "sideways" of a concept as Epics are, and both are only as "sideways" as your concept permits. Picking a Pool or an Epic that fits your character is no different than picking a Primary or Secondary that fits - you get what's closest to your original idea and go from there. To draw a line at being forced to take Pool powers but not draw it at having to take any Secondary powers - while I can respect the sentiment - is just... Arbitrary. It's meaningful to you, I don't contest that, but it's one of the many points where such a line can be drawn, and there's really no "right" point to draw a line on. That's what the developers went with. It's neither fair nor unfair. They had to choose something and that's what they chose.

Incidentally, I face a similar quandary as you do regarding Incarnate powers (or would if unlocking them weren't such a grind), in that not all of my characters make sense to shoot lightning from their fingertips or throw great balls of fire. The aforementioned Kat/SR Scrapper that I have would make much more sense if his Incarnate powers manifested as exceptionally powerful sword attacks, or as literal guns, but that's not an option. I'm not sure it ever will be. And that's the easy part. For this guy, it makes no sense for him to have a "pet." I designed him before I even heard about City of Heroes, and I designed him as a loner. That's one of his defining characteristics. To get him a transparent robot with boobs is just... Wrong.

So, again, I can definitely see your point. I just think the game works either way.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Void may be able to work, you'd have to hand-wave some explanation for it though. Or go the whole lame sword cuts with the vacuum it creates silliness. I would really like to see weapon based judgements though. Even something as 'simple' as a Hammer strike [Thor!]. I imagine they may be difficult to develop in a manner that's flexible without introducing a judgement style for every given weapon however. But can hope.

Lore, may be manageable for you with the Robotic Drones. It's still suboptimal, and probably doesn't fit your concept either, but they're a lot less obtrusive.

the real question would be, what are you missing by taking these? now if you were forced to take pools powers and miss out on something else, then i could see your issue, but having to use two extra powers that are, for all intents and purposes, free...... dude, sounds like a bad case of self importance to me, as you are in essence, whining about nothing....

you live in Dauphin County Pennsylvania I take it?

You "have" to take some because even Primary and Secondary pools are designed with a focus. No Prim/Secondary covers all the areas. Thus, pool powers that are generally applicable to every character are put in other pools, both to easily designate these are things you may want to pay attention to, and to allow the Prim/Secondary sets to be more focused.

Because Epic pools were tacked on after the fact, thus why they were originally all four powers, which coincided perfectly with the four new power picks gained when the developers added levels 41-50.

They'd have to completely redesign the levelling system to change anything now, and when you make changes like that, you start having to call it a new game.

Personally, I'd like to see a Judgement power for at least every MAJOR weapon class, like one for cutting weapons, one for smashing weapons, one for bare hands, one for rifles and one for pistols. That's, what? Five? Yeah, I know it's a lot to ask for and I know it still lacks certain specific things, like a Judgement for a finesse fighter or one for dual blades, or one for a Devices user and so forth, but my point is that I want to see Judgement powers for characters who don't glow with eldritch power, so to speak.

Incarnates in general seem to have been designed with a very specific thematic in mind - that of Thanos and the like, or the notion that power glows, more broadly. Which is kind of odd. It's like launching City of Heroes and all the powers you offer are Fiery Melee/Armour/Blast/Control, Ice Melee/Armour/Blast/Control, Stone Melee/Armour, Earth Control, Dark Melee/Armour/Blast/Miasma and Energy Melee/Blast/Manipulation with no weapons in the entire game.

Err... Why? They opened T2 Travel Pool powers up at level 6 to veteran players and the world didn't collapse in a singularity. What's so complex about simply opening Epic pools one, two or five power picks earlier? At most it requires some forward planning. Crucially, it changes almost nothing in the end game, which is all the development team cares about these days anyway.

I've suggested as much in the past, but with as many powersets as we have, this seems to be too much of a workload to do all at once, and it's something that you HAVE to do at once, as well. Can't add extra powers to, say, Scrappers but not to Blasters, after all.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

I don't think it would've been odd at all. I've always found the weapon sets to be my least favorite, thematically. If you want to swing a sword or shoot a gun, you can do that in real life. It's firing lasers from your hands or summoning lightning storms with your mind that you need to play a video game to do.

Not to mention the MMO genre is lousy with games that let you wield swords and hammers.

How about taking down a giant enemy crab with a sword, or shooting down a Harrier jet with a rifle? How about leaping out of a helicopter in flight, doing a barrel roll and putting a bullet through the pilot of the enemy helicopter whizzing past you? Can you do that in real life? I can't, and I'm pretty sure it's not just because I haven't trained hard enough.

I can tell you one thing for a fact - if the game didn't have weapons, I'd never have bought it at all. I've always been a fan of sci-fi anime where high-tech swords and other melee weapons are more dangerous than guns and traditional American super hero powers aren't very prevalent. Almost without exception, all my 50s are weapon users. I actually think at one point or another I've had a 50 of every kind of weapon in the game.

I've caught heat in the past for saying that we shouldn't "limit" ourselves by what can be found in American comic books, and I've always been told that comic books are broader and more inclusive than that. And yet I keep meeting with this attitude towards in-game themes again and again - comic books aren't really about that. I saw it with Dual Blades, I saw it with Shields, I saw it with weapon customization, and I'm seeing it again with Incarnates. And I really don't feel it's a good direction for the game. That's one of the primary reasons I care nothing for the competitors' super hero MMOs - I'm not all that into American super heroes.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.