Info on Issue 20.5

Mirai · 05-26-2011 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arilou

Issue 18 had Praetoria, Issue 19 had two story arcs, I20 didn't have much, true, but I21 will have a new zone.

I haven't seen any information on this new zone so far. It might be for Incarnates only, for all I know. Frankly, I'd be happy with some new useful starting costume pieces and some powerset proliferation. A new zone that I could use would be nice though, but I'm not getting my hopes up yet.

Arilou · 05-26-2011 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow

Here's the thing - City of Heroes is not your typical MMO. .

Wrong. It has different specific strategies but it's really very typical.

Quote:

I remember in the days of old when we used to pat ourselves on the back how we're here as much because we like THIS game as because we don't like OTHER games. Now that City of Heroes has competition, a lot of why people come here is exactly what sets it apart - the customization. That's a large reason why I find that stuffing customization behind gates is a bad idea. The broader the tool kit players have to work with, the more powerful the customization.

And they still hae that toolkit, they just have to go and get it. (and mind, some people probably LIKE that you have o go through some arduous tasks to earn the epaulets or whatever, just because it makes them look special an serves as proofs of their "mighty deeds")

Quote:

Personally, I don't think competing with conventional MMOs in conventional ways is a good idea. City of Heroes simply isn't competitive, not against the more popular MMOs out there. If I wanted raid grind or costume drops and greater challenge, I would not have come to City of Heroes. I'm here because this is the only game which allows me to eat my cake and have it, too.

I don't think the game can remain competitive forever simply becuase the engine is getting old. So yeah.

Quote:

I've been accused of being selfish when I say this whole thing is moving the game in a bad direction for everybody, accused that I'm saying it because only I don't like it. But I feel that Paragon Studios aren't playing to the game's strengths, and haven't for a very long time. They're trying to invent brand new strengths for the game, and for a seven year old game, I honestly don't see that having nearly enough of an impact to justify the immense cost of development.

I have no idea if they're actually making a good or bad decision (I can see their reasoning, but not neccessarily the outcome) but if the game ever gets boring... Well, I'll leave, not as if I haven't done it before. I find it more fun to play now than I have i years, though, I'm getting a steady diet of new stuff to do and new things to unlock, that keeps me satisfied.

And this particular thing? It' not as if it hasn't been a part of the game since day 1. Capes. General's epaulets. Witch hats. Auras.

Quote:

These costumes are a prime example. Yes, they look... Decent. But how many people are actually going to use them? Now how many CAN - lots of people have 50s. But how many WILL? Matt Miller seems to regard these costume pieces as somehow objectively "better," and as such worthy of being a level 50 unlock. In this, Matt Miller is provably wrong, because there exists no such thing as a costume piece which is "better" without the context of the rest of the costume it exists in, the theme of the character using it and the aesthetic preference of the player behind the wheel.

I think you have the casuality wrong. Some people are going to wear t *because it is gated*. As a way of showing off.

No, I don't get it either, but some people like that.

"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."

Arilou · 05-26-2011 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow

Well, that's just the rub - what I want more than anything else is power customization and powerset proliferation. More realistically, I want COSTUMES. At character creation, more specifically, so I can be inspired to make more, newer characters. I find that the game has more than enough content 1-50, personally, even for a solo player. I'll never refuse more, but I'm not really all that much a content person. I care about my characters, less so about the world around them.

That is to say, I'm not a content person provide enough content exists, which it doesn't in the case of the Incarnate system, but I'm pretty sure "enough" will never exist for it as it does for the rest of the game.

Personally, I want more ways to customize my characters. More custom animations, more custom effects, more colour option on existing effects (Curse you, Ice powers!), more costumes as broadly available as possible, more mounting points on our characters, a more extensive character editor which allows for greater asymmetrical design. I want muscular women, I want bubble face helmets, I want jet packs, I want back packs, I want wraparound cloaks, I want butt capes, I want skirt robes and long skirts, I want better long hair for men, I want a greater selection of non-robotic options for Robotic Arms, I want more types of Monster legs, I want better animal faces with selectable muzzles as face details, I want more faces with higher-resolution textures.

I could replay this entire game, as is, a thousand times over counting from now and never get bored if I had enough freedom to replay it with a truly different character every time, a character that matched what's in my head as perfectly as possible. I don't need new things to DO, I need new things to BE, and a decent game to be those things in will suffice.

Ah.

The problem for you is that you want some of the most demanding stuff for the devs to create, that at the same time provides some of the least returns (I don't think it's particularly controversial to say that gameplay>cosmetics for most people)

Powerset proliferation I expect to get at some point: It's at the other endof the spectrum (good returns for relatively little work, at least compared to costume parts)

Personally I'm the exact opposite. I have my characters and aren't really interested in grindig through the entire game again (with it's incredibly varying-in-quality stuff) I might roll another alt or to, but mostly the idea of grinding through 1-50 fills me with disgust. I want stuff to do, new challenges and new things.

And so how are the devs going to satisfy us both? They really can't. They're going to have to prioritize, and each of us is going to whine i the ohter is prioritized.

"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."

Ashen_EU · 05-26-2011 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arilou

Of course it is.

The thing is, genuinely interesting content takes work, and time, and money. They're trying, but the meantime they're putting out these small little incentives, they're not expecting them to do much on their own, but with a lot of them they might...

They can't get by on just doing genuinely good stuff (because then we'd get an update every two years and half of the players would quite in-between) and that's assuming they're capable of pushing it out: There's just not enough resources.

So they have to rely on all these litle gimmicks to keep people playing. And sometimes they work and sometimes they don't, and it's different for everyone what does and doesen't work.

I know the economics behind it, partially understand them too (I'm not going to insult anyone's intelligence by pretending I'm an economic expert). But it still strikes me that unless you have an art department with nothing worthwhile to do then assigning them to something that will probably not add a noticeable length of play-time and is a gamble at improving customer satisfaction is a mistake.

Anyway, I'm off for now. Getting late and I've got work. Been a pleasure having a reasoned discussion on an internet forum, been a while.

Take care of yourself Arilou.

Ashen Out.

Friends are just enemies that haven't betrayed you yet.

Arilou · 05-26-2011 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashen_EU

I know the economics behind it, partially understand them too (I'm not going to insult anyone's intelligence by pretending I'm an economic expert). But it still strikes me that unless you have an art department with nothing worthwhile to do then assigning them to something that will probably not add a noticeable length of play-time and is a gamble at improving customer satisfaction is a mistake.

Anyway, I'm off for now. Getting late and I've got work. Been a pleasure having a reasoned discussion on an internet forum, been a while.

Take care of yourself Arilou.

Ashen Out.

It's probably more of a case of "If we do costume pieces are we going to gate them?" Yes/No.

With a side-order of "Let's make something special for 50's to show off to shwo they're 50's.

"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."

rsclark · 05-26-2011 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arilou

The jangling of their wallets IS the voice of the players.

Only if the player's voice only has two volumes - shouting and totally silent.

Arilou · 05-26-2011 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsclark

Only if the player's voice only has two volumes - shouting and totally silent.

Why do you think they give you that "Why did you quite playing?" survey?

"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."

Jophiel · 05-26-2011 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arilou

If people play this game for the character creation they are going to gate custom parts behind content, so that those people *keep* playing and thus earn them money.

Having spent considerable time in the parts of the forum dedicated to art and costume creation and showing off concepts, this doesn't really seem the case with this game. For instance, I almost never saw people showing off costumes using Vanguard bits until it was made universally available. I almost never see people showing off concepts using the Roman armor or Rularuu weapons.

Conversely, I see people using paid booster parts all the time. I don't doubt that people who hit 50 and accumulate A/E merits will get these bits incidentally just because they're there. I don't have any real objection to their being there. But I don't have any real reason to believe that any significant number of people will stay with the game and push for 50 with these pieces being any real motivator.

Arilou · 05-26-2011 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jophiel

Having spent considerable time in the parts of the forum dedicated to art and costume creation and showing off concepts, this doesn't really seem the case with this game. For instance, I almost never saw people showing off costumes using Vanguard bits until it was made universally available. I almost never see people showing off concepts using the Roman armor or Rularuu weapons.

Conversely, I see people using paid booster parts all the time. I don't doubt that people who hit 50 and accumulate A/E merits will get these bits incidentally just because they're there. I don't have any real objection to their being there. But I don't have any real reason to believe that any significant number of people will stay with the game and push for 50 with these pieces being any real motivator.

I do see people spending great deal of effort getting the rularuu swords nad the vanguard laser blades.

"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."

Ironik · 05-26-2011 04:16 PM

So are the auras gated, too?

The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction

Wooden_Replica · 05-26-2011 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpacePope

Area of effect shield powers! Woo!

Everything else! Woo!

that in if itself will be awesome, one wonders if it would include the caster as well, note with the possible exception of Thermal. the sets mentioned long have needed a little boost like that

Red Valkyrja · 05-26-2011 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arilou

I'm just curious: What DO you want? The last big updates we've gotten pretty much every kind of content update (story arcs, tf's, trials, low-level content... The only thing lacking is PvP) I'm genuinely curious. (The two things that they've kind of put on a back-burner is of course customization for pool powers and power proliferation, but I'm fairly sure they're going to get working on that at some point)

You forgot bases...

Angel Red
"We're heroes. Fighting injustice is the thing we do." ~Rebel Scum

minimalist_NA · 05-26-2011 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow

Matt Miller seems to regard these costume pieces as somehow objectively "better," and as such worthy of being a level 50 unlock.

Um, no.

He said it was designed with a specific aesthetic and endpoint in mind.

It was designed to be desirable (not "better"), something that for many people it will be simply by virtue of being gated. It also serves an economic purpose by adding incentive for players to run the trial at least a few more times (extending the 'life' of the trials).

You've said a lot of bizarre stuff in this thread (CoX didn't have raids or loot before? really? you'd never heard of the Hamidon?) but putting words in people's mouth -- especially such silly words -- takes the cake. But hey, easier to win arguments when you get to redefine what the other person is saying.

Unknown_User · 05-26-2011 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wooden_Replica

...one wonders if it would include the caster as well, note with the possible exception of Thermal...

Zwillinger posted that the buffs will not buff the caster, only the target and anyone in the 30 ft radius

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger

2 things...

The buffer will not be affected, even if they are in range of the buff target.

also

The endurance cost does not change, so this is an across the board buff.

Paragon Unleashed Forums
Twitter: @Alpha_Ryvius

Teeko · 05-26-2011 05:23 PM

just to add my 2 cents in regarding the lvl 50 costumes...

i occasionally run into a younger player (in terms of game time), and they loko at my trenchcoat, or they look at my angel wings and they ask how i got those.

I say you get these as a veteran player by X amount of months.

Really 50/50 of their responses is:

A: Awesome! I cant wait!
B: X Months?!? Im not playing this game that long to get those! And then they usually finish their /tell with some form of insult for allowing myself to play the game for so long.

So I see this the same way. If people want this, theyre going to play the game regardless if they have it character creation or hitting the level cap and running some content.

Like the veteran rewards, it just takes time and its a prestige thing for having these rewards.

Is it fair to everyone? No. But then you cant please everyone.

Teeko · 05-26-2011 05:23 PM

P.S.

To the devs, love this mid issue release. nicely done!

Golden Girl · 05-26-2011 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironik

So are the auras gated, too?

They're gated behind gated gates.

@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

joebartender · 05-26-2011 05:32 PM

Black Scorpion added an update to the discussion here http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...&postcount=613

Global: @Kelig

Golden Girl · 05-26-2011 05:35 PM

The reason I don't like SB is because it makes me run into walls - so being able to flag myself as not wanting the movement boost is an awesome fix

Now they just need to add an option to decline the visual effects of some of the ugly buffs

@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

Furio · 05-26-2011 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joebartender

Black Scorpion added an update to the discussion here http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...&postcount=613

*sarcasm* Wow...it's almost like the devs have been reading the forums for the past 7 years or actually playing in secret on the live servers. *sarcasm*

also

Furio--Lvl 50+3 Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster, Virtue
Megadeth--Lvl 50+3 Necro/DM/Soul MM, Virtue
Veriandros--Lvl 50+3 Crab Soldier, Virtue
"So come and get me! I'll be waiting for ye, with a whiff of the old brimstone. I'm a grim bloody fable, with an unhappy bloody end!" Demoman, TF2

Jophiel · 05-26-2011 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joebartender

Black Scorpion added an update to the discussion here http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...&postcount=613

Oh, thank God people can finally stop crying about Mystic Fortune...

bAss_ackwards · 05-26-2011 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow

For powers. Not costume pieces. Not in a game who bills itself as having the best customization around. Boy, it's like I'm looking through a wormhole into Jack Emmert explaining gating Capes at level 20.

It still does. It doesn't mean players get complete and total domination over costume content though.

Playstation 3 - XBox 360 - Wii - PSP

Remember kids, crack is whack!

Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it

Ironik · 05-26-2011 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golden Girl

The reason I don't like SB is because it makes me run into walls - so being able to flag myself as not wanting the movement boost is an awesome fix

Now they just need to add an option to decline the visual effects of some of the ugly buffs

Making a blonde faster, breaking the face-climb continuum.

The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction

LISAR · 05-26-2011 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golden Girl

They're gated behind gated gates.

And there is a guard dog.

Arilou · 05-26-2011 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LISAR

And there is a guard dog.

But his name is Fluffy, and he's not very good at his job.

"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."