Some post-release advice for ALL players.
By
Aliana Blue,
Posted on: 2011-04-05 19:50 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I'd like to say I have seen more successful runs on these 2 trials than I did in the first week of CoP. I have had 2 successful runs on both trials.
Also I'd like to say I loved the new SF. Not sure a team of 20's could handle it, but it was awesome. The Warriors finally get used in an SF. No other spoilers.
The new TF, I thought it was kind of blah... It reminded me too much of Tin Mage and Apex but for lower levels.
Now to check to see if HeroStats has an update so I can update my badges.
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All this talk about death, dying and failing...
Haven't done any of the new incarnate content (heck, I only unlocked the incarnate slot on 1 character so far...I'm just enjoying my alts when I can) but wondering just how awesome Rise of the Phoenix, Soul Transfer and Fallout must be in these situations 
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You forgot everyone's favorite... Vengence
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Originally Posted by Leo_G
<QR>
All this talk about death, dying and failing... Haven't done any of the new incarnate content (heck, I only unlocked the incarnate slot on 1 character so far...I'm just enjoying my alts when I can) but wondering just how awesome Rise of the Phoenix, Soul Transfer and Fallout must be in these situations |
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You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. Winston Churchill
Does everyone realize that you can easily build to un-commons in each slot without ever successfully completing a trial? And that after doing so, you'll have tools that make being successful much easier?
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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I did. That's what's awesome. The uncommons for these four new slots are, IMO, worth more than the Rare's in the Alpha tree.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Does everyone realize that you can easily build to un-commons in each slot without ever successfully completing a trial? And that after doing so, you'll have tools that make being successful much easier?
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My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
I just want to throw it out there that I'm like 7 for 7 on these things rolling with PUGs every time. Haven't really even come close to failing.
They're not that hard. Perhaps you should just read up on the encounters first and know what to do and what not do? I dunno. I just don't see what the big deal is.
Hm, couple of things I'm going to comment on from the thread:
1) Don't rush: I disagree.
I was in two... Erm... Well, the one that's not the Lambda... That one. Two failures yesterday. Truth to be told, we were 13 and 15 people (when it can be up to 24, probably all 24 would help because we simply lacked damage to overpower the ambushes). Here's how the first time went:
*Clear Courtyard*
*Keep patients from escaping*
Leader: Stay on the court! Everyone come to the tennis court.
L: Stay here!
*AV has been reinforced by a squad of DEATH*
L: Everyone here? Good. Stay here.
*Time passes*
*AV has been reinforced by a squad of DEATH*
Me: What's happening?
L: Pulling the AV. Stay on the court!
*Time passes*
*AV has been reinforced by a squad of DEATH*
L: She's hard to pull.
Me: o.O
*AV has been reinforced by a squad of DEATH*
*Leader is held and hosps, comes back*
*AV has been reinforced by a squad of DEATH*
*AV finally is pulled and hilarity ensues*
Think the same, but slower, for Siege. Couldn't even find the ************ for at least two spawns. We fail - miserably - before having a chance to finish him off and go to the two AVs fight.
On the second try I noticed, delighted, that the rest of the team had decided not to wait for the pulls. After some hesitation on the AV spawn, half of us rushed them and, while pounding, slowly pulled them to the tennis court (why the tennis court anyway? Dunno, but we did it that way). Much better. But then the second fight with both AVs came.
L: Take Siege first, ignore Nightstar.
L: Siege at 50%, switch to NS.
L: Ignore Siege. Stick to the AV I call.
L: Switch to Siege.
Me: He's taking off.
L: (To the tank) Pull him, stick to him.
L: Switch to NS.
L: Swith to Siege.
Me: Where the heck is he?
Teammate: Back at his spawn point.
With a million ambushes.
x.X
And that made me remember the two successes with my DM/Inv scrapper on the Lambda. There were five or six of us scrappers in those. And we behaved like scrappers - we moved forward and stomped every single ************ in the room as fast as we could.
And you know what? If you don't want to have masses of ambushes stomping your team, you don't want to drown in robots and level 54 mobs, and don't want to fail miserably, the best thing you can do is get out as fast as you can and wail on the bastards as much and as fast as you can. That's about as City of Heroes as it gets.
2) IOs don't help: In my experience, false.
Being IO'd to the gills absolutely made the difference for me - looking at what I survived and why I survived it. That's a good or a bad thing depending on your point of view (SOs forever vs. gear nullification thesis), but that's my impression. Being at 60% defense before buffs with my stalker (after hide suppression) made a heck of a difference when looking at how others were falling to the AVs and how I was surviving their aggro (it was the powered-up mobs that did me, rarely the AVs directly). And the mass survivability jump on my DM/Inv thanks to a tight build too.
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That's funny, because just today I did I20 content involving Sky Raiders and warships and an advanced element of the Praetorian invasion, and it didn't even require being an Incarnate much less require running Incarnate trials. In fact, it exemplared me below level 50.|
Originally Posted by Warlocc
It's not optional. Choosing to cut yourself off from all future content isn't much of an option at all.
EDIT: Probably not all future content. That may be an overstatement. I hope. At least the next few issues, though. |
Also, I find it interesting that neither Lambda nor BAF have, as a prerequisite for running them, having previously succeeded at Lambda or BAF, and yet they are being held as clear examples of how future Incarnate content will be gated behind them. Honestly, I'm not even sure this is an argument I want to have anymore: now that I20 is reality and not theory, I find arguments about what it might or might not do increasingly uninteresting.
Incidentally, between yesterday and today, my current record on the trials stands at 3 and 1 on Lambda, 2 and 2 on BAF. So 75% success rate on Lambda and 50% on BAF. Interestingly, in both cases the successes on BAF came after failures with basically the same team. Observationally, it seems to me that the teams that succeed at both trials have players willing to listen, and players willing to teach, simultaneously. When that happenstance occurs, you can usually adjust and beat Lambda on the first try with any hodge-podge team. You can usually adjust and beat BAF on the second try after a failure tells you where you failed - and it always fails on the escaping prisoners, so its just a question of adjusting tactics to deal with them based on the team.
Honestly, I think it was an order of magnitude harder for us to figure out the I1 Hamidon back in 2004 than it is to figure out these trials. The only difficult part really - which was the exact same hurdle with Hamidon - is just getting everyone on the same page functioning as a team. When that happens, the trials go down fast. I honestly believe - specifically because you can bring 24 players to bear on it - that BAF, the harder of the two, is easier than the LRSF was before ultrastrong invention builds and Incarnate powers arrived.
They are also far more entertaining than Hamidon ever was. I'd run these trials even if they didn't have Incarnate rewards. I also like the fact that Sutter (haven't run the other yet) gives lower level players a taste of the kinds of combat mechanics the end game eventually throws at you. It creates a nice learning curve. Hopefully, future players won't run into the advanced mechanics face-first like us old timers do, because it will be old hat to them.
What's my advice to players? Honestly: I don't have any. If you're enjoying the new content, I have nothing to say that would improve that situation. If you're not enjoying it, my tactical advice for improving your odds of succeeding in the trials would be irrelevant. I firmly believe that the Incarnate content will eventually be like Hamidon, or the LRSF, or the ITF. Complaints about something being too difficult for our playerbase to enjoy have always vanished over time. The playerbase overall will adjust to the Incarnate content as well. Any argument over that fact will itself be irrelevant over time. We've already seen that with Apex and Tin Mage: the level of difficulty claimed for those two has dropped dramatically. And these two new trials are something I'm getting better than 50% success rates at twenty four hours after launch.
If you just don't enjoy it, I can't help you: no one can. Not everyone will like all content added to the game, and its unfortunate if you're one of those that doesn't like the new content. But if you think they are too hard for this game, you're wrong. But I don't have to convince anyone of that, just like I don't have to make arguments today that the LRSF and the STF are too hard for all but a vanishing minority of players. Time is on my side.
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I have never said these things are too hard. I've said they're not fun. Easy does not equal fun.
Also: if you have to read outside sources to find out how to succeed an encounter, then it's a badly designed game. Period. I'm really getting tired of people saying that we just need to read the guides. Everything every player should need to know should be right there in the game.
The other problem I have with it is that we have raid content designed to unlock Incarnate abilities which are designed to make our characters even more powerful... but only inside the raid content. Apparently I missed something in the past year this Incarnate system has been discussed, because I never realized this stuff was only supposed to work within its own gated community.
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It's only the two extra level shifts that are Incarnate Trial only.
The godly powers of awesome are usable anywhere you want.
Well, so far, I have a 100% success rate!
Of course, I only ran each one once.
We went over the game plan briefly beforehand... some reminders during... We had one person who had the grenades and acid for Marauder... the leader called out when to chuck the grenades (likely just as a helpful reminder, in case they missed it).
I was on as Electric-Knight, E3 Blaster... All level 50 Standard Inventions and not a single Set Bonus and I hardly dropped. I think I dropped twice during Siege and Nightstar (and company) in the BAF...
And I dropped two (maybe three) times running around the enemies to find the weapon crates...
And some nasty lasers knocked me out once during the battle with Marauder.
And I was not holding back my fire power at all.
We definitely had a good and well balanced group of teams though.
A few of everything, it seemed.
I enjoyed it. I didn't expect to succeed (I didn't necessarily expect to fail either), but I had some fun fighting things and joining in on some chaos.
My favorites were fighting the big War Walkers, Siege and the Security Guard (I like group fights against larger opponents... we need more dynamic Giant Monster content, me thinks).
Marauder was pretty fun too. With the warnings, I never did get caught in any of the major attacks (His Nova Fist and the War Walkers special attack thingamajig).
Now, I tend to like soloing and 2-5 person teams (Just love the flow and action and pace of smaller size teams), however I also occasionally enjoy some big group fests... I always seem to enjoy the ITF and usually the Mother Ship Raid.
I can definitely see these Raids joining those as things I'll enjoy running now and then for some different kinds of fun.
Now... I probably just happened to start off with two nice runs.
I can imagine how frustrating some really bad runs can be.
The worst is if your team just can't cut it. That didn't happen to me, so we'll see if it ever does.
I'm hesitant to try straight LFG TUT runs of it.
I think I'd rather assemble a relatively balanced league of most every AT.
Oh, and I really enjoyed the Prison Break in the BAF (As a Blaster, at least). Trying to nail them coming out, throw some of my electrical holds on them and snipe the ones that thought they were getting away.
Was a fun little different sort of experience.
As far as the rewards... I have no idea what I got and what I need and what I'll do, haha.
So, I guess I'm doing this WHOLE thing backwards. Win both on my first tries and log out without figuring out what I've earned and what I need for the new powers.
Anyway... Just my little journal of personal experience with these for the first time.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Just something I noticed while running a few more BaFs today:
You don't have to *kill* all the escapees. You simply have to prevent them from escaping. We know that trying to mez the LTs is pointless; but minions? Why, you can hold them right at the door all day long and they won't cause a lick of trouble. This frees your damage dealers up to chase the LTs. Even better: if the door spawns an entire mob of minions, and you hold it at that door without killing any of them - they won't spawn any more from that door.
As of yet, I havn't had the kind of coordination I'd like to truly test this out. The one half-attempt I did manage to get resulted in only one escapee slipping through... with only seconds left, obviously.
Another thought: Don't the 9CUs (the bane of any Trial) all spawn from the same door? I wonder if, perhaps, it might be less trouble to have a small detachment guard that door and hit them when they're at their weakest - preventing them from causing trouble to the main group in the first place.
Another thought: Phase... just... phase. I'm seeing a lot of spots where those enemy-locking powers so many love to hate might actually be quite useful.
For the record, I have my Uncommon Interface, Uncommon Lore, and Common Judgement thus far. Working on my next Lore, now. While I havn't been on a successful Lambda yet - I've been on mostly-successful BaFs. Due to the game having some sort of wicked sense of humour, I've wound up leading most of them.
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Okay, one...you don't have to read guides. Yes, it helps, because it gives you an idea of what to expect going in, but everything you need to figure out what you're doing is given to you in the trials, through objective windows, and messages that flash across your screen. The difference is, if everyone knows generally what to expect -first-, then the chances of a smooth and successful trial are far higher. Either way, whether you read beforehand or not, you're probably going to come out of every trial having learned something. Guides are a way of pooling knowledge of successful strategies, but they're hardly the only way to do these things, and far from definitive. The people telling you to read the guides are the ones too lazy to teach and share the knowledge that they've gained. Give it a week and you'll see far more people who have their strats down pat, their instruction macros made, and are ready and able to lead consistently successful trials without ever having to refer anyone to a guide. There are some out there already. We just haven't reached a critical mass of people who know what they're doing with this yet.|
Originally Posted by Ironik
I have never said these things are too hard. I've said they're not fun. Easy does not equal fun.
Also: if you have to read outside sources to find out how to succeed an encounter, then it's a badly designed game. Period. I'm really getting tired of people saying that we just need to read the guides. Everything every player should need to know should be right there in the game. The other problem I have with it is that we have raid content designed to unlock Incarnate abilities which are designed to make our characters even more powerful... but only inside the raid content. Apparently I missed something in the past year this Incarnate system has been discussed, because I never realized this stuff was only supposed to work within its own gated community. |
As for your second point, if no portion of any of these abilities were possible to use outside of these trials, I might give you that, but the only thing that -doesn't- function for the rest of the content a 50 can access is the Incarnate Shifts. The Judgement AoE still works, you can still summon the Lore pets, the Interface proc still goes off, and the Destiny buff still works. A group of people I run with had a blast earlier running through an ITF with some of us having T1s, and watching the mobs melt under a Pyronic blast, or taking on triple ambushes with our procs and buffs, was fun and relaxing after the intensity of the Trials. So, I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with you on that one too.
I think what Nalrok is saying is take what the trial gives you and don't stress out if you can't complete the very first try. There are team leaders out there that had the advantage of running numerous BAFs and Lambda's on test and have the strategy down cold... baring bugs these people are probably enjoying a very high rate of success. Then there are those of us that were not in closed BETA or maybe only got one look at the trials during the sneak peak. We are still learning all the ins and outs of the trial and at times this results in a "TRIAL FAILED".
Okay fine but failed or completed there is a good chance you picked up a few Astral merits, a good number of threads and quite a bit of Incarnate XP toward unlocking your powers. I personally joined a few Lambda trials using the turnstile and wound up on a 7-9 man league. We quickly realized we didnt have enough people to complete all the objectives and so we simply settled for what we could accomplish. One one that meant clearing the IDT from around the complex and clearing out the innner courtyard and gun emplacements. We tried to tackle the Security team but that EB was just to stubborn to die so we agreed to cal it quits.. I left with about 10 new threads and 20% closer to opening my Interface. Did we WIN? no but was it worth the effort? YES.
I did another turnstile Lambda where we actually got past the securuty but realized we'd be too few to tackle both the acid and grenades inside. We combined into one team and went for the acid.. Our thoughts being if we sealed off the portals Maurader couldn't get reinforcements and we could get a few grenades outside later. We did manage to get most of the acid and then picked up enough outside to seal all the portals. So NO Atral Merits but we did get to a point where we were fighting Maurader. Unfortunately we didn;t have enough players or enough grenades to succeed but again I left with my Interface now open, enough threads to actually slot it, and a start on opening ip Destiny. So.. again did we win? NO Was everyone satisfied with what they got out of it? YES
What Nalrok means is that for now winning is basically hit or miss but eventually we will all get the strategy down pat and as out powers increase and we earn that 2nd and then 3rd level shift suddenly Maurader, Seige and NightStar are going to seem pretty tame. What proof do i have? Anyone remember how much peope complained about the ITF when it first started? We ahd some of the most bizarre strategies imaginable to try and seperate him from those Nictus so we could beat him.. NOW half the time the team just charges up the steps and pounds hum to dust along with the ambushes or .. if they are a but more squishy.. the pull him into the grass to avoid the ambushes and then do the exact same thing. I took my 50 (+1) Crab Spider and joined an all VEAT ITF a while back. We killed everything in sight and took Romulus on the steps. 8 VEATS combining all that defense and + to Hit were too much for that TF. On a KILL ALL we managed to complete the task force in 50 minutes.
Now give in a few weeks, a month at most, and see just how tough the BAF seems with a team of all 50 (+3)s. 
Til then relax and enjoy whatever you get.. that is ALL the man is saying LOL
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Perhaps so, Arcana, but the point is that the progress we're supposed to be making has no other impact beyond these trials. The instant I come back out of them and do anything that's not close to level 50, the apparent progress I've made doesn't exist. |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Everything except Incarnate Shift works everywhere, inside or outside of the trials. Incarnate Shift is not a "theoretical level." The progress in the Incarnate system is not defined by combat level shifting. They even changed the name to signal that. What do they have to do at this point, change the mechanics so it doesn't use the combat modifier tables at all and replaces it with a complex numerical buff that takes an extra month to make and ends up doing the same thing?
The Incarnate "levels" are the slots. Every "incarnate level" works everywhere. The special combat modifier buff in the slots besides Alpha only work in the trials, so that the devs can make the trials have very high difficulty levels *but* unlike the LRSF before the players can work to earn power to overcome that difficulty. The numbers involved are simply too stupidly high to allow just that one tiny mechanic to work outside the trials. You're correct there's a psychological effect going on here, but its not the one you're thinking of. |
No other MMO I've ever played where I've seen the risk is worth the reward has denied me the reward after I've gotten it and used it in a setting outside of the original context.
If that's not counter-productive, I don't know what is. Give me a zone like the Shard and move them into the post-50 bracket and I wouldn't say anything at all. But this isn't happening.
S.
Part of Sister Flame's Clickey-Clack Posse
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Sorry, are you complaining that these powers aren't available when you are exemped to level 1? God, I've just started playing another MMO that doesn't support sidekicking and it sucks! The games great, but not having my friends able to join up and prod buttock without temporing their powers isn't so much fun.
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Originally Posted by SuperOz
Perhaps so, Arcana, but the point is that the progress we're supposed to be making has no other impact beyond these trials. The instant I come back out of them and do anything that's not close to level 50, the apparent progress I've made doesn't exist.
No other MMO I've ever played where I've seen the risk is worth the reward has denied me the reward after I've gotten it and used it in a setting outside of the original context. If that's not counter-productive, I don't know what is. Give me a zone like the Shard and move them into the post-50 bracket and I wouldn't say anything at all. But this isn't happening. S. |
Slightly off-topic, I feel like a great approach for a team that's shockingly incompetent and just can't handle completing a trial might be to just start a Lambda, clear everything, and then leave. You can easily get 20-25% iXP and a bunch of threads doing that. Do that a few times and you can unlock and probably slot Interface and Destiny.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Subjective. I'm having a blast even when Marauder punches my teeth in.|
Originally Posted by Ironik
I have never said these things are too hard. I've said they're not fun. Easy does not equal fun.
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Originally Posted by Ironik
Also: if you have to read outside sources to find out how to succeed an encounter, then it's a badly designed game. Period. I'm really getting tired of people saying that we just need to read the guides. Everything every player should need to know should be right there in the game.
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Originally Posted by Ironik
The other problem I have with it is that we have raid content designed to unlock Incarnate abilities which are designed to make our characters even more powerful... but only inside the raid content. Apparently I missed something in the past year this Incarnate system has been discussed, because I never realized this stuff was only supposed to work within its own gated community.
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My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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Kinda funny, last night had someone do that in our run.|
Originally Posted by brophog02
Amen.
The biggest problem I'm seeing: Most teams defeat themselves before the trial ever starts. I've seen it time after time: "We can't do it with one team." "Someone will screw it up." On and on. In fact, several of the successful ones I have been on have been nothing more than teams that attempted to do it to the best of their ability to see how far they could get, and then wound up finishing it. Or in some cases, got very close. Positive attitude and perseverance is far more important right now than powersets and experience. |
Then, apparently they requeued and rejoined our raid, and bailed [of course] again.
Was amusing at least.
Let's Dance!
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This....doesn't make any sense.|
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
You can take 5 minutes to read how the encounter works, or you can't. Things will feel smoother if you know what's going to happen. If you're not willing to assess your enemy you're not entirely entitled to complain when you can't defeat them. Imagine if the playerbase took your idea and ran with it with Hami, barring them knowing already; no one would have beaten him. They wouldn't know what the green mitos did, they wouldn't know only Ranged can tackle yellow, etc. etc.
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So no one knew what the various mitos did before a guide was made? Then who wrote the guide?
It should be obvious that encounters that don't provide you, in game, with the information you need to beat them are badly designed encounters. Out of game resources are a crutch and are only necessary when the developers haven't done their job effectively or players are too lazy to pay attention to what the encounter is telling them.
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Let me reword it: If you've never done Hami, and barring asking other players for help, are you going to know what the hell's going on when you run in?|
Originally Posted by JKedan
This....doesn't make any sense.
So no one knew what the various mitos did before a guide was made? Then who wrote the guide? |
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Originally Posted by JKedan
It should be obvious that encounters that don't provide you, in game, with the information you need to beat them are badly designed encounters. Out of game resources are a crutch and are only necessary when the developers haven't done their job effectively or players are too lazy to pay attention to what the encounter is telling them.
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Smart gamers will read up on their encounters.
Seriously, your logic is the flawed logic.
"If you have to read up on content to win it's a badly designed game."
Let's change that a little to reflect the nonsensical aspects of the statement.
"If you have to study for a test, it's a badly designed class."
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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I've gone into a couple of PUG Lambdas expecting to do just that and then been pleasantly surprised to make it all the way to fighting Marauder (and in one case, damn near defeating him).
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Slightly off-topic, I feel like a great approach for a team that's shockingly incompetent and just can't handle completing a trial might be to just start a Lambda, clear everything, and then leave. You can easily get 20-25% iXP and a bunch of threads doing that. Do that a few times and you can unlock and probably slot Interface and Destiny.
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@Quasadu
"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick
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Eh? Reading up on the encounter before trying takes away the fun of working it out.|
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
Let me reword it: If you've never done Hami, and barring asking other players for help, are you going to know what the hell's going on when you run in?
You've never played console games, have you? You should try playing Resident Evil 5 or Devil May Cry 3/4. It takes numerous tries to take down bosses before you figure out the strategy. And by numerous I mean "god dammit Wesker why won't you die" and throwing your XBOX360 out the window in a fit of rage. I watched it happen to my old roomie. Smart gamers will read up on their encounters. Seriously, your logic is the flawed logic. "If you have to read up on content to win it's a badly designed game." Let's change that a little to reflect the nonsensical aspects of the statement. "If you have to study for a test, it's a badly designed class." |
I will only read up on an encounter if I am really struggling to figure it out, or not enjoying the challenge.
Your example is flawed in that a game is not an exam. An exam is a test of your knowledge. A game is a relaxing past time. All the information you need should be displayed on screen.
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We'll have to agree to disagree. I like to know what I'm getting into, you prefer to be instructed in the field.|
Originally Posted by Diggis
Eh? Reading up on the encounter before trying takes away the fun of working it out.
I will only read up on an encounter if I am really struggling to figure it out, or not enjoying the challenge. Your example is flawed in that a game is not an exam. An exam is a test of your knowledge. A game is a relaxing past time. All the information you need should be displayed on screen. |
*shrug* If that's your cup of tea.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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You have a *very* odd view of 'easy' there.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Does everyone realize that you can easily build to un-commons in each slot without ever successfully completing a trial? And that after doing so, you'll have tools that make being successful much easier?
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Still here, even after all this time!
An added challenge (I just know this sentence is gonna get twisted, but whatever) is not a gate. You can still participate in either one of those. At worst its a hurdle, and one easily conquered. But either way my work day's just about over and I'd much rather go home and play the game.
They call me Hadoken 'cuz I'm Down-Right Fierce.