City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Some post-release advice for ALL players.

Aliana Blue

By Aliana Blue,
Posted on: 2011-04-05 19:50 in CoH and CoV General Discussions

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Gemini_2099 View Post
It can work...use your imagination to fill in for the massive gaps of design and story telling...that is all. P.S. If you are a /SR scrapper you can only rely on quickness to be the workhorse for your two trials. Enjoy!
I'm a Mastermind with no level shift yet. If I even thought about trying these, I'm sure I'd wind up just spending all my time waiting for pet summons to recharge.

 

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Originally Posted by Finsplit View Post
"How do you KNOW you won't like jumping off the roof unless you TRY?"

No. I've been on failed TFs and trials before. I've been on TFs where I find myself struggling not to slow down the group. They were miserable, aggravating experiences. I see no reason to search out more of that, just so I can get the shiny new stuff.

I'll just wait and play my sub-50 characters and hope the devs eventually get off their mega-team fetish and write a new story arc or two once in a while.
Well if that's the attitude you want to have, then I'm sorry to hear that, because lots of us find the trials quite fun even when we don't complete them. You really don't know what you're missing.

Also your jumping off the roof comment is stupid. This is a game. Relax.

@Quasadu

"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick

 

Posted

I'd strongly suggest that "Raid for gear to raid for gear" doesn't apply here like some folks like to think.

In (that game), you reach level cap, then do instances A-F several times daily to earn gear so that you can do instances A-F but harder this time

you do that several times daily so that you can get gear to do Raids A and B
you do those several times weekly to get gear to do Raids A and B but harder this time

if you fail, you get jack. if you succeed you better have a good roll, or you get jack.

then in a few weeks/months they'll unlock Raids C and D, you get to do those for a few weeks to get gear to do C and D harder this time

again, happy rolling -if- you succeed.

That's not what's happening here.
Here, you do BAF or Lambda. Both can be done successfully without any of these slots unlocked. (I've seen it, Ive done it, so don't tell me you *have* to have them unlocked to do it, and every problem Ive encountered personally was caused or solved by coordination, or the lack thereof, rather than game mechanics). You do them, and you win or you lose. Then you do them again or do something else. Your choice.

Win or lose, you make progress. you don't *have* to win, and win or lose, any progress or goodies earned are *yours* you don't have to compete with anyone for anything.

No matter what happens, you are progressing. That's got to be one of, if not *the* most friendly end game system I've ever seen. They were designed that way, you know why? because making it so that if you lose you get nothing would have caused an even bigger uproar that we're going through right now, and rightly so. Butjust because your own ego cant stand faceplanting on the first day even though not everyone knows what they're doing yet, even though not only are you not losing anything, you're in fact gaining just by being there, doesn't mean COH is suddenly turning into (that game).

I'm not gonna tell anyone what to think or say, but I will say please just calm down, pick yourself up, try it again, and if nothing else, give it a couple weeks if you need to. Like others said. we've gone through this process of 'it's too hard!' before, and it levels out in a few weeks every time once people learn what they're doing and get better/stronger.

They call me Hadoken 'cuz I'm Down-Right Fierce.

 

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Originally Posted by Darkfaith View Post
Every time you walk away from one of these, you have iXP, threads, components,
I'm going to single that out. That's the same thing as DKP.

DKP is points you collect and spend on an item when you have enough.

Threads, components, iXP is the same thing. Stuff you're collecting to make a shiny at the end.

 

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Originally Posted by Quasadu View Post
Well if that's the attitude you want to have, then I'm sorry to hear that, because lots of us find the trials quite fun even when we don't complete them. You really don't know what you're missing.

Also your jumping off the roof comment is stupid. This is a game. Relax.
If you find the hyperbole unpalatable, then look at it this way. I have never seen Sucker Punch. However, all the discussion I have seen about it, including a great deal from people whose opinions I respect, generally indicates that it is a bad movie that contains many elements I personally find distasteful.

If you tell me, "Go see Sucker Punch, you don't know what you're missing," I will respectfully decline and instead use my limited movie-viewing time for something else I'm more certain I will enjoy.

Likewise, nothing I have heard about Incarnate content -- whether the story or the mechanics -- makes me want to try it in the slightest. I will continue to ignore it and make better, more productive and satisfying use of my equally limited pretending-to-be-a-superhero time.

34 heroes,
20 villains, Victory, Justice, Infinity, Virtue, Triumph, Exalted -- some more active than others

 

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Originally Posted by Warlocc View Post
I'm going to single that out. That's the same thing as DKP.

DKP is points you collect and spend on an item when you have enough.

Threads, components, iXP is the same thing. Stuff you're collecting to make a shiny at the end.
No, it's not the same as DKP. DKP is a player-driven and run points system, and is dependent on being in a static group of people who raids together, and while it guarantees you a reward within that raid group when you have enough points to spend, it's dependent on how whoever is running the pool has it set up, and it doesn't apply to any other group you might want to do this with. Threads, components, iXP, fall like rain in these trials, and you can do them with whoever you want, however you want, as many times a day as you want. Your progress is yours alone, is not deferred by any sort of player determination, and isn't dependent on anyone but you and your willingness to do these things. If you really wanted, you could have every slot unlocked and filled with at least a T1 in a couple of days. Days, not weeks, not months.


 

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Originally Posted by Darkfaith View Post
No, it's not the same as DKP. DKP is a player-driven and run points system, and is dependent on being in a static group of people who raids together, and while it guarantees you a reward within that raid group when you have enough points to spend, it's dependent on how whoever is running the pool has it set up, and it doesn't apply to any other group you might want to do this with. Threads, components, iXP, fall like rain in these trials, and you can do them with whoever you want, however you want, as many times a day as you want. Your progress is yours alone, is not deferred by any sort of player determination, and isn't dependent on anyone but you and your willingness to do these things. If you really wanted, you could have every slot unlocked and filled with at least a T1 in a couple of days. Days, not weeks, not months.
It doesn't matter who I pay- other players, devs, or the Cookie Monster. It's the same thing. I'm collecting points/iXP/junk to spend on something.

Yes, it's better when it's the devs in charge of it, but that doesn't make it different.

 

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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim View Post
I love how I start a thread that says "Step back, breathe, and persevere my friends" and a ton of butthurt people run in as fast as they can and say "I WILL DO NO SUCH THING!"
They have an agenda, and it's been crushed at every turn

@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

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Originally Posted by Finsplit View Post
If you find the hyperbole unpalatable, then look at it this way. I have never seen Sucker Punch. However, all the discussion I have seen about it, including a great deal from people whose opinions I respect, generally indicates that it is a bad movie that contains many elements I personally find distasteful.

If you tell me, "Go see Sucker Punch, you don't know what you're missing," I will respectfully decline and instead use my limited movie-viewing time for something else I'm more certain I will enjoy.

Likewise, nothing I have heard about Incarnate content -- whether the story or the mechanics -- makes me want to try it in the slightest. I will continue to ignore it and make better, more productive and satisfying use of my equally limited pretending-to-be-a-superhero time.
The difference is you aren't paying anything more for an Incarnate Trial than you have already paid for your sub, and an Incarnate Trial takes about 30 minutes to run. The movie costs you money and lasts a couple hours (although Sucker Punch was a particularly short movie - or felt short anyway, I didn't check the time).

But like I said, if you don't want to try them, then don't. If you want to form your opinion based on other people's opinions, go ahead. I just think it's too bad, because they are very fun.

@Quasadu

"We must prepare for DOOM and hope for FREEM." - SirFrederick

 

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Originally Posted by Warlocc View Post
It doesn't matter who I pay- other players, devs, or the Cookie Monster. It's the same thing. I'm collecting points/iXP/junk to spend on something.

Yes, it's better when it's the devs in charge of it, but that doesn't make it different.
*shrugs* well, if that's the way you feel, don't participate. It's optional. CoH is good like that.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim View Post
I love how I start a thread that says "Step back, breathe, and persevere my friends" and a ton of butthurt people run in as fast as they can and say "I WILL DO NO SUCH THING!"
You obviously cannot read very well since there are a fair share of 'butthurt' people discussing the content. Perhaps you should revisit the thread when you are not so mean spirited.

 

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Originally Posted by Darkfaith View Post
*shrugs* well, if that's the way you feel, don't participate. It's optional. CoH is good like that.
I'd like to think so, but it's getting pretty obvious that the devs intend on making this Incarnate stuff the new thing.

It's optional, yes. But then I also cut myself off from future content unless I want to grind those same two raids over and over and over and over again.

That's the issue, I think. The player has never had to do anything but level up and have a half decent build to access any content in this game.

Once we start raiding, you have to keep raiding. Get the new shiny so you can handle the content for the next new shiny.

Saying it's optional is not good, either.

 

Posted

Why is optional not good? I thought we were all for options here? Isn't the fact that just about anything you can come up with in this game is optional one of the strong points that make it stand out to so many people?

This isn't something that people are required to do, or even required to do anything special to do. The only thing you need is to be level 50. You can do this content without your Alpha slot unlocked and just like I said before, win or lose, still make progress.

But, not everyone's going to like it. That's inevitable. Not everyone liked PVP, or the Market, or AE, or Ouroboros or anything else that's been added to this game in 7 years. Hell, some people still refuse to touch red side at all. It's impossible to create a feature, system, or mechanic that 100% of the playerbase is going to like or approve of. We've been given completely free, completely optional, completely unnecessary things before 'just because', and you'll still find threads finding fault with it. That's not a complaint, its reality. There's been things added to the game that I didnt care for myself, it's not the end of the world, and its not an insult.

All (most) of us are saying is 'give it a fair shake, or let it be'. if you don't like it, fair enough, but some of these comments, complaints and comparisons are so far off the mark, it borders on appalling.

They call me Hadoken 'cuz I'm Down-Right Fierce.

 

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Originally Posted by Gunstar_Grey View Post
All (most) of us are saying is 'give it a fair shake, or let it be'. if you don't like it, fair enough, but some of these comments, complaints and comparisons are so far off the mark, it borders on appalling.
It's their last throw of the dice - and it's already way too late

@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Clouded View Post
You obviously cannot read very well since there are a fair share of 'butthurt' people discussing the content. Perhaps you should revisit the thread when you are not so mean spirited.
I'm not entirely sure if you're provoking me or being sarcastic. I'm well aware of people discussing content in this thread. Are YOU missing the people who quoted my advice and basically told me they will be dissatisfied no matter what?

My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Gunstar_Grey View Post
Why is optional not good? I thought we were all for options here? Isn't the fact that just about anything you can come up with in this game is optional one of the strong points that make it stand out to so many people?

This isn't something that people are required to do, or even required to do anything special to do. The only thing you need is to be level 50. You can do this content without your Alpha slot unlocked and just like I said before, win or lose, still make progress.

But, not everyone's going to like it. That's inevitable. Not everyone liked PVP, or the Market, or AE, or Ouroboros or anything else that's been added to this game in 7 years. Hell, some people still refuse to touch red side at all. It's impossible to create a feature, system, or mechanic that 100% of the playerbase is going to like or approve of. We've been given completely free, completely optional, completely unnecessary things before 'just because', and you'll still find threads finding fault with it. That's not a complaint, its reality. There's been things added to the game that I didnt care for myself, it's not the end of the world, and its not an insult.

All (most) of us are saying is 'give it a fair shake, or let it be'. if you don't like it, fair enough, but some of these comments, complaints and comparisons are so far off the mark, it borders on appalling.
It's not optional. Choosing to cut yourself off from all future content isn't much of an option at all.

EDIT: Probably not all future content. That may be an overstatement. I hope. At least the next few issues, though.

 

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It absolutely is. You can participate in the parts of the game you like, and chose not to participate in the ones you don't, and it doesn't take anything away from you for making that choice. you can continue to do everything you do enjoy in this game without pentalty. I don't like PVP. so I don't PVP. am I missing out? maybe, but its by my own choice, and its still there should I change my mind, and more importantly, its there to provide that variety for those who might. this is true of any other part of the game. you personally not liking it, or any other individual personally not liking it doesn't take away from its value to those that do. It may not be your preferred option, but again. nobody is going to like 100% of what the game has to offer.

They call me Hadoken 'cuz I'm Down-Right Fierce.

 

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Originally Posted by Warlocc View Post
It's not optional. Choosing to cut yourself off from all future content isn't much of an option at all.
That's the point some people like Gunstar Grey and Darkfaith are missing. This is really major content that almost certainly feeds into all future level 50 content, including the hyped-for-years Coming Storm. If you want to keep doing all the same content you've done for years that is an option. A bad option, but an option.

The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction

 

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Originally Posted by Gunstar_Grey View Post
It absolutely is. You can participate in the parts of the game you like, and chose not to participate in the ones you don't, and it doesn't take anything away from you for making that choice. you can continue to do everything you do enjoy in this game without pentalty. I don't like PVP. so I don't PVP. am I missing out? maybe, but its by my own choice, and its still there should I change my mind, and more importantly, its there to provide that variety for those who might. this is true of any other part of the game. you personally not liking it, or any other individual personally not liking it doesn't take away from its value to those that do. It may not be your preferred option, but again. nobody is going to like 100% of what the game has to offer.
Nothing is gated behind PvP, so, yeah, analogy failure. Everything else is gated behind this. That's part of the problem.

The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction

 

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This doesn't gate you either. There hasn't been a single piece of content yet that says 'you cant do this if you dont have this slot unlocked'. The day they introduce something that requires all your Very Rares, or even a single Common slotted in order to even participate, you wont see a dissenting argument from me. but as is right now, the only thing gating anyone from participating in any of this content is their own lack of desire to do it, which is fine. Like I said, nobody should be forced to do anything. The difference is, when I say forced I mean literally forced and gated from it. Just because you feel like you needs it right now doesn't magically create and program some instant barrier from doing anything.

I didn't miss the point, I just don't agree with it.

Edit: that's a generic 'you', not pointing out anyone in particular.

They call me Hadoken 'cuz I'm Down-Right Fierce.

 

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Originally Posted by Ironik View Post
That's the point some people like Gunstar Grey and Darkfaith are missing. This is really major content that almost certainly feeds into all future level 50 content, including the hyped-for-years Coming Storm. If you want to keep doing all the same content you've done for years that is an option. A bad option, but an option.
What's the point of doing content that you don't enjoy, though? Yes, there's a high chance that pretty much all future level 50 content will be tied to it, but there's another 49 levels of the game to still enjoy, and that they're still adding to, plus all those other level 50 activities that we had before this. Does the Incarnate system and the Trials change your participation and enjoyment of those things? Not at all, or it shouldn't, at least. That makes it optional. If you don't enjoy the Trials...don't do them. And, honestly, if you don't enjoy them, and the future content for this system is more Trials...are you even going to enjoy those? They haven't stopped adding content to the rest of the game. We just got 2 new TFs, in addition to these Trials.

If you feel that you don't enjoy something, then go do what you enjoy. That's why we're here, isn't it?


 

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Originally Posted by Gunstar_Grey View Post
This doesn't gate you either. There hasn't been a single piece of content yet that says 'you cant do this if you dont have this slot unlocked'. The day they introduce something that requires all your Very Rares, or even a single Common slotted in order to even participate, you wont see a dissenting argument from me. but as is right now, the only thing gating anyone from participating in any of this content is their own lack of desire to do it, which is fine. Like I said, nobody should be forced to do anything. The difference is, when I say forced I mean literally forced and gated from it. Just because you feel like you needs it right now doesn't magically create and program some instant barrier from doing anything.

I didn't miss the point, I just don't agree with it.

Edit: that's a generic 'you', not pointing out anyone in particular.
You mean like doing Tin Mage or Apex without your Alpha slot?

 

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Originally Posted by Gunstar_Grey View Post
This doesn't gate you either. There hasn't been a single piece of content yet that says 'you cant do this if you dont have this slot unlocked'.
Of course there hasn't been any content yet, this is the gate into FUTURE content!

 

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Originally Posted by Darkfaith View Post
What's the point of doing content that you don't enjoy, though? Yes, there's a high chance that pretty much all future level 50 content will be tied to it, but there's another 49 levels of the game to still enjoy, and that they're still adding to, plus all those other level 50 activities that we had before this. Does the Incarnate system and the Trials change your participation and enjoyment of those things? Not at all, or it shouldn't, at least. That makes it optional. If you don't enjoy the Trials...don't do them. And, honestly, if you don't enjoy them, and the future content for this system is more Trials...are you even going to enjoy those? They haven't stopped adding content to the rest of the game. We just got 2 new TFs, in addition to these Trials.

If you feel that you don't enjoy something, then go do what you enjoy. That's why we're here, isn't it?
So, the options are keep making alts or raid? Fine, I'll just- oh wait, I have limited character slots. Where's the option now?