Supporters of Emperor Cole are abandoned?
By
Aliana Blue,
Posted on: 2011-03-09 03:40 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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That should be a TF/Trial or two.
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Originally Posted by Xaphan
Now, here's an interesting angle. We know the Well doesn't work with people. It controls people. Cole being the Well's champion is basically saying that Cole is the Well's puppet. And really... we don't know how that happened. Did he willingly give himself up to the Well, or was he just looking for more power, and chose the wrong method? Is he the major villain in this case, or could he be considered another victim?
How much of Cole is left in the villain we now face? See, this is how I'd work the supporters of Emperor Cole into the progressing story line: He's not himself any more, the Well has taken too much from him, in giving him his godlike powers. The charismatic man who could make you believe and trust him is no more. The human who could be reasoned with is lost within the Well. Those who once wished to stand by his side must first stop his dark ambitions, and purge the influence of the Well. Save the Emperor, before all is lost. |
I really shouldn't be jumping in at work, but...
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In an interactive environment like CoH, part of the fun is coming up with your own interaction with the environment. There's nothing wrong with finishing up 20 in Praetoria and having your own belief in what Emperor Cole is - saviour, tyrant, giant chicken, whatever. There's nothing wrong and everything right with that.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
And we only get one of those two options.
For people citing 'motivation', I guess the following character shouldnt exist; -Mindwiped Loyalist pawns -Semi-controlled Imperial Agents -Those who are as blindly loyal to Coles rule as Arachnos soldiers are to Recluse (We get to play one of them, after all) -Clockwork. ANY Clockwork that are still obeying original programming. |
There are, however, limitations inherent in the system. The devs can't account for everything - HE'S A GIANT CHICKEN I TELL YOU - there's only so much time and manpower available to put into the project. Thus they can only tell so much story at a time, and if they want to stay in business its pretty much going to be the story that will be appreciated by the greater subscriber base. Which brings us to where we are today. Barring any future curveballs, Paragon's devoting their development into the fight against Tyrant. Its the popular choice. Anyone who finished up level 20 in Praetoria still on his side has two options:
- Stay loyal, skip Praetorian task forces, and come up with own content in RP and AE.
- Find a way around your loyalty to Tyrant.
Oh, and with regards to loyalty to Recluse, the entire SoA storyline is about where your trooper becomes something more than just another mindless piece of Arachnos cannon fodder. Your ultimate victory will eventually be handing Recluse his own broken mask.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
When the time comes that Cole invades, you'll either join alongside him, or fight him off using your new found power. (As your own story unfolds on Primal Earth, you will have opportunities to switch sides.)
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This is your inference. There is no evidence for it and given that we actually go back to Praetoria with Apex and Tin Mage to thwart his plans, it's highly unlikely we get to ever assist him.
Thelonious Monk
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.... OR.... you took Provost Marchard seriously and went really REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLYdeep undercover....
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Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
This is your inference. There is no evidence for it and given that we actually go back to Praetoria with Apex and Tin Mage to thwart his plans, it's highly unlikely we get to ever assist him.
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Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
.... OR.... you took Provost Marchard seriously and went really REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLYdeep undercover....
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Arguably helping to defeat your leader's invasion force is a tad toooooooo deep
Thelonious Monk
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Unless your boss was Nemesis.
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Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
Arguably helping to defeat your leader's invasion force is a tad toooooooo deep
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
I have one thing to say to those touting the VEAT 'Storyline';
LOLBrainstorm!
That is all.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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(channels his best Vernon Von Grun)|
Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
Arguably helping to defeat your leader's invasion force is a tad toooooooo deep
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Right! Nobody would expect that. It's BRILLIANT!
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I'd love to see a Nemesis EAT.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Unless your boss was Nemesis.
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Perhaps you already have?
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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
I'd love to see a Nemesis EAT.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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And then you punch Statesman in the face.
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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
I have one thing to say to those touting the VEAT 'Storyline';
LOLBrainstorm! That is all. |
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When the time comes that Cole invades, you'll either join alongside him, or fight him off using your new found power.|
Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
This is your inference. There is no evidence for it and given that we actually go back to Praetoria with Apex and Tin Mage to thwart his plans, it's highly unlikely we get to ever assist him.
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Now. I see why you would think this. However, as of right now, outside of your own personal RP, where in the game does it look like your hero/villain wouldn't go up against Tyrant?
Go Hero, you learn just how bad Tyrant is, and that people just aren't all bad on Primal, ect ect.
Go Villain, you want the power and you want to keep it.
Or never leave Praetoria, to stay loyal to Cole.
If they make an option for Praetorians to be loyal to Cole, I wouldn't be against it. Just saying, if you stick to the story of the game, I don't see why your character wouldn't be against Cole.
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which takes us right back to my central point.
Thelonious Monk
I smell an IDF epic on the horizon ala Arachnos Soldier. Probably in conjunction with Praetorian content expansion.
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So right about never then.
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Originally Posted by Anti_Proton
I smell an IDF epic on the horizon ala Arachnos Soldier. Probably in conjunction with Praetorian content expansion.
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That's possible - but then they'd still need to turn against Tyrant to progress as an Incarnate - unless the devs decide to make a special Incarnate path for Tyrant's followers - which seems unlikely, as they didn't even make one for Recluse's minions, who are much better established as a separate faction right up to 50.|
Originally Posted by Anti_Proton
I smell an IDF epic on the horizon ala Arachnos Soldier. Probably in conjunction with Praetorian content expansion.
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If they'd made it so that Tyrant formed an allaince with Recluse to try and take out Paragon City, and loyalists who went red side at 20 would then be helping their master by working for Arachnos post-20, then that would have ben a sign that the devs were planning for separate good and evil Incarnate paths - but the moment they made Heroes and Villains both be threatened by Tyrant, that guaranteed that the Incarnate content would be co-op.
If they added 35-50 content for loyalists, there'd still be the same problem for the devoted stiff-armers of having to turn against Tyrant for the Incarnate content - the Incarnate system, has massively reduced the chances of separate loyalist/Villain Incarnate content.
For example, the next 2 Trials they're working on are an attack on Anti-Matter's reactors to try and shut down Tyrant's ability to create his war robots and other wepaons, and a Trial against the Praetorian Hamidon, which has just woken up again - there's no sign that they're working on anything that would suit one of Tyrant's thugs - it's all co-op stuff against Tyrant and his dictatorship.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Pretty much this. I . . . just don't see it happening any time (if ever) before issue 30 or something.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
That's possible - but then they'd still need to turn against Tyrant to progress as an Incarnate - unless the devs decide to make a special Incarnate path for Tyrant's followers - which seems unlikely, as they didn't even make one for Recluse's minions, who are much better established as a separate faction right up to 50.
If they'd made it so that Tyrant formed an allaince with Recluse to try and take out Paragon City, and loyalists who went red side at 20 would then be helping their master by working for Arachnos post-20, then that would have ben a sign that the devs were planning for separate good and evil Incarnate paths - but the moment they made Heroes and Villains both be threatened by Tyrant, that guaranteed that the Incarnate content would be co-op. If they added 35-50 content for loyalists, there'd still be the same problem for the devoted stiff-armers of having to turn against Tyrant for the Incarnate content - the Incarnate system, has massively reduced the chances of separate loyalist/Villain Incarnate content. For example, the next 2 Trials they're working on are an attack on Anti-Matter's reactors to try and shut down Tyrant's ability to create his war robots and other wepaons, and a Trial against the Praetorian Hamidon, which has just woken up again - there's no sign that they're working on anything that would suit one of Tyrant's thugs - it's all co-op stuff against Tyrant and his dictatorship. |
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Also, going by what Prometheus says in I20, it seems that we can only go on to face the threat of the Coming Storm after we've defeated the threat of Tyrant and the loyalists - which makes it sound like the post-Praetorian Incarnate content won't have anything for Tyrant's minions either - like if Heroes and Villains had to unite to takew down Tyrant, then it looks certain that they'll have to unite again to stop the Coming Storm.
Also, and non-Incarnate post-20 loyalist content would need something massively evil in it to make them turn against Tyrant so they could feed into the Incarnate path - the devs already added the revelation of Tyrant's invasion plans at the end of the 1-20 path as the cue to turn against him, as well as the earlier exmaples of the evil of the dictatorship during the loyalist path to 20 - and if the mass-murder, torture, brain-washing and oppression seen in the 1-20 content didn't turn people to the right side, then it's hard to see what other evil could be shown as the trigger to get post-20 loyalists to see the light and be able to join in the Incarnate content.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Speaking as a Villain, I'm sick and tired of having to team up with Heroes all the time.
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I'm tired of my character's motives being fed to him. Seriously, the villain tips put a lot of words in the mouths of the people running them.
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Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
Speaking as a Villain, I'm sick and tired of having to team up with Heroes all the time.
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Development-wise, it's way easier to create content that way |
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
Speaking as a Villain, I'm sick and tired of having to team up with Heroes all the time.
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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
I'm tired of my character's motives being fed to him. Seriously, the villain tips put a lot of words in the mouths of the people running them.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Not at all. You're close though. Replace 'naughty' with 'an anarchist' and 'just misunderstood' with 'actually evil.'
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Do they call you naughty, when you'd prefer to think of yourself as just misunderstood?
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So they call Villains evil? How shocking |
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
Not at all. You're close though. Replace 'naughty' with 'an anarchist' and 'just misunderstood' with 'actually evil.'
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Some tips actually get the evil done. Such as the one where you stomp the weakened Longbow Officers flat. Others, like the "give Lt. Demitrovich the gun you rigged to explode" seems less 'actual villain' and more 'guy that likes to kill people with recipes from the anarchist's cookbook'. That CAN be considered villainous, but not exactly in the comic-book-ish way; more like the actually-sociopathic-homicidal-nutcase way. The more evil choice, IMO, would be to USE the gun on Demitrovich and send her to the hospital directly.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
So they call Villains evil? How shocking
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