Supporters of Emperor Cole are abandoned?

Right. While I'm not a fan of Tyrant, either, there are many that DO often believe that "humanity must be saved from themselves." Heck, in our own political extremes we have fringe groups that believe that "everybody else" is out to conspire against us... or just lead us to ruin through their sheer idiocy. Things would be so much better if those people just shut up and let US do what we KNOW is right. We call them names and write off their contributions as folly, because WE would do things better.

The world is a mess and I just have to rule it.*

Tyrant might actually believe that he's still protecting mankind against itself. Heck, he may believe that he must conquer the metaverse because with his immense power comes the responsibility to do just that. He's batnuts insane, sure, but for those that have gone through ANY of the Praetoria arcs, can you really say that mankind's greatest threat isn't STILL itself?

An open participatory and healthy democracy is a ridiculous mess that appears ready to fall into pure anarchy any moment. If you lose sight of the truly amazing part (that it works as well as it does), then Cole's methods seem rather attractive.



*made famous by Dr Horrible, but said by so many.

To be fair, when they eventually do shut the servers down, the players who want to destroy the universe will at last have their moment of triumph.

Cole (superficially at least) stands for something. Richter is just an anarchic lunatic with no clear ideology and his goal is "I want to rule the world." Recluse is Chaos to Cole's Law. in AD&D terms, Cole is Lawful Evil and Richter is Chaotic Evil. For me at least, it's much harder to get behind chaos because it's just so random.

"You got to dig it to dig it, you dig?"
Thelonious Monk

Ok, well, assuming we're staying with the Lore, then.

You've established your character's place on the Rogue Isles well enough, and all that makes sense... but how does Ouroboros and Ramiel and becoming an Incarnate fit into your character?

What is your villain's interest in being an Incarnate? A quest for power? Preparing for the 'coming storm'? What does Cole's presence-- so deeply imbued with the well's power- then mean to you? Is he a possible threat? Could he deprive you of the power he seeks? Would he possibly see you as something to be eliminated? Knowing that the well can exert influence over those imbued with too much power too quickly, would you risk siding with him and being dominated by the well's power?

But they both still do that murder-slavery-torture-oppression thing that all dictators do - it's just that Tyrant prefers it to be done in a cleaner environment, and with less of a spider theme.

Cole never put out death warrants for my character, encouraged his subordinates to fight to the death for no reason other than that it builds character, or made speeches about his plan to plunge the entire world into anarchy for sheer eeeeEEEEEEEVVVVvvvvvIIIIIIIiiiiiiiillllLLLLL. Recluse is pretty much the least empathetic villain in the game.

Nope, when you leave as a loyalist and go red side, the text states that you might well side with cole in the Invasion.



Even the Hero loyalist text states that your goal is to help make Cole see that the Invasion isnt nescessary. Doesn't mention anything about fighting against your own government or armed forces.

But sadly, as with all choices made in Praetoria, none of that actually has any effect on your characters story after level 20.

Let me channel my inner Night Widow... OK, here we go.

"Listen to Recluse's speech at the entrance to Grandville. Look at the recruitment posters around the Rogue Isles. He does stand for something: Power, and obtaining it by any means neccessary. From where we're sitting, Tyrant is just a dictatorial lunatic who pays lip service to his happy shiny lawful ideology while his obvious goal is 'I want to rule the multiverse.' Not surprising its coming from an elseworld Statesman, really."

Blood Widow Ricki * Tide Shifter * T-34 * Opposite Reaction * Shaolin Midnight * ChernobylCheerleader

Entropy Legion * Hyperion Force * Hero Heights

and?

So effectively the same goal with different approaches

"You got to dig it to dig it, you dig?"
Thelonious Monk

It's naughty, and they should stop

Stop what? Stop having a spider theme? Stop not having a spider theme?
What theme do you suggest?

Something less spider-ish - but the style isn't as important as stopping that murder-slavery-torture-oppression thing

The Loyalist side of going to the Isles does seem to be saying "Fight with Cole" OR "Get lots of powers (incarnate) and go against him"

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

And of course Cole's Law is shredded cabbage in mayonnaise.

I don't get that. I have not seen where he says "fight with me" even relayed by his minions. I won't say it doesn't exist but I haven't experienced it personally and I've looked for it. Which is the whole premise of this thread

I totally agree. Even in the comics they were one-dimensional (there's irony for you) and Statesman comes across mostly as a self-righteous git

"You got to dig it to dig it, you dig?"
Thelonious Monk

Go to the Rogue Isles. Become a Villain. Why would you want to go to help the people of Primal Earth when all they've shown is disdain and hatred towards Praetoria? If you go to the Rogue Isles, you can carve out your own destiny, your own path for power, for glory, for whatever you want. When the time comes that Cole invades, you'll either join alongside him, or fight him off using your new found power. (As your own story unfolds on Primal Earth, you will have opportunities to switch sides.)


That bolded part just sounds like "Join Cole OR find new incarnate powers" to me.

That's because the game never does. There's a quick statement about it in the "Become a villain" choice description, as a couple of people have posted here already, but it's never mentioned again once you actually do. That's because, obviously, no one would ever have any motivation whatsoever to side with Cole.

Not if they were sane, no

And we only get one of those two options.

For people citing 'motivation', I guess the following character shouldnt exist;

-Mindwiped Loyalist pawns
-Semi-controlled Imperial Agents
-Those who are as blindly loyal to Coles rule as Arachnos soldiers are to Recluse (We get to play one of them, after all)
-Clockwork. ANY Clockwork that are still obeying original programming.

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

They're only on the forums

Conveniently, misplaced sanity is not a bar to being a super on either side of the law in this game.

The majotiy of the insanity is on the Villain/loyalist side

Not at all.

Option 1) Side with Cole and miss out on end game content.

Option 2) Don't side with Cole and do end game content

(BTW this is all if you want to run everything IC and not just go the OOC route)

Obviously, Option 1 is going to feel kinda suckie, but it is an option, and one you can choose to stick with.

My main would never join Vanguard, work with sure, but NEVER join. Guess what it says when I do the arc, that I need to do because I want Vanguard Merits...Join vanguard.

I just overlook the whole joining Vanguard bit.

Having a Hero License or being a known Villain...the game kinda locks you into those positions even if you start to go grey, just by clicking on options and looking at your character ID.

People have been ignoring that, since when, release day?