City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

ZAM Q&A With Nate "Second Measure Birkholz"!

Arcanaville

By Arcanaville,
Posted on: 2011-02-21 13:26 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
Well, "we have made some changes in the past that didn't end up the way we wanted them to" is admitting that I13 didn't quite work out as planned
and "we're just too pig-headed to admit the pvp revamp was a massive failure and simply revert the changes, so we'll leave it in its current condition - dead".

 

Posted

Anyone else starting to notice that use to the devs would post and have some what of a personallity. Now though...... they look like computer generated responses the GM's in game email you with that get you no where. If and when someone on the top reads the fourms..... We could use someone to post that has a personallity, That can get mad or can be happy or can be frusterated. Heck call Castle up and ask him some of those questions and as hes tellin ya his thoughts record that and post it here. Least then we could give some "constructive feedback".

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber_naut View Post
and "we're just too pig-headed to admit the pvp revamp was a massive failure and simply revert the changes, so we'll leave it in its current condition - dead".
Actually, that's a change from before - when I13 first came out, they said they were happy with it - based on how a lot of non-PvPers were trying out the new system.
But now they've realized that the changes weren't enough to tempt non-PvPers to stick with PvPing.

@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggard4Life View Post
...Though it's a bit odd to post a link to it on our forums. That's almost asking for this kind of response.
This is one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't situations .

Part of our responsibilities as a Community Relations team is to keep the Community informed of everything that's going on with the game that we possibly can, whether it's new and exciting™ information or something that's not revealing any new information.

We'll always do everything we can to promote articles and newsbits about City of, because there is a segment of the playerbase that wants this information .

Andy Belford
Community Manager
Paragon Studios

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
Actually, that's a change from before - when I13 first came out, they said they were happy with it - based on how a lot of non-PvPers were trying out the new system.
But now they've realized that the changes weren't enough to tempt non-PvPers to stick with PvPing.
they were participating because it was new and they marketed as such (see sig) not because pvping is too lite to stick with or anything like that.

Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
This is one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't situations .

Part of our responsibilities as a Community Relations team is to keep the Community informed of everything that's going on with the game that we possibly can, whether it's new and exciting™ information or something that's not revealing any new information.

We'll always do everything we can to promote articles and newsbits about City of, because there is a segment of the playerbase that wants this information .
"Marketing are useless! There's nothing on any of the MMO sites about the game!"

-vs-

"Oh god, marketing are useless, they're making press-zombies out of Second Measure."

For me, it's just good to see these interviews out there, so CoH can go "Hey, we're still here."

We've got a new Producer's Letter coming soon which may have more information on i20 and beyond. Let press-pieces be like sleeping cats and hog up the sunny windowsill space.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
Let's keep the conversation constructive please .
Well, Z, TbH - that PVP answer *was* a dodge. And the "we fix bugs that come up?" The bugs, perhaps, but given the entire PVP (dedicated and casual) community's massive drop and seeming state of being ignored since I13, well...

I'd say you're getting some pretty tame replies.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
Let's keep the conversation constructive please .

Something to keep in mind when reading articles such as this. Yea though we link to it in the forums and on Facebook, the target audience for "gaming media articles" isn't always the active Community. Media outlets such as ZAM!, MMORPG.com or Massively give us a platform to reach a much broader range of readers who might be lapsed/former players of CoH or have never even picked up the game before.

Because we value direct and candid conversation with our active Community, we utilize venues such as the Producers Letter and direct communication through the forums to give the level of detail that the Community at large generally desires.

All that being said, we are certainly taking note of your concerns regarding the tone and content of this interview and will convey this feedback to Nate and "Slightly-Evil" Marketing (aka: Black Pebble).

Thanks!

- Z
We get the same BS about PvP even when it's directed at the community as well, so this doesn't address that. They won't commit to a time frame on either undoing what they did or fixing what they did whatever fluff way you want to word it. The non committal responses speak volumes for where it is (or isn't in this case) in the grand scheme of things. Here we are 7 issues later after their "we really care about PvP so much we are going to f it up and ignore all the PvP beta testers" and we have nada in the way of a PvP fix/finish of i13.


"Play Nice and BEHAVE! I don't want to hear about any more of your shenanigans brought up in our meetings at Paragon"-Ghost Falcon @Tritonfree @Philly's 2nd Convenient CIGAL BoBC/INOANN Arts&Crafts Sporks
Average Joes FAP THE MENTOR PROJECT Justice Events

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starcloud View Post
That's just it. City of Heroes is practially unique among MMORPGs for the way the developers actually talk to and engage the community about several different topics.

The way the game works behind the scenes. The philosophy and direction of game design, particularly with this game. These are two subjects most dev teams on most MMORPGs will NEVER talk to the community about, because they don't care.

You guys care, or you used to. Castle, Back Alley Brawler, others, all used to come to the forums and answer questions when they could. And in the process of researching some of those questions, they delved into the code and learned things about City of Heroes that had NOT been documented, which made the game a better game overall.

Please avoid pure fluff marketing pieces that just reiterate things that can be found on the main page of City of Heroes or Going Rogue. Provide little sneak peeks about what's coming up, about the direction of the game in future issues, and you'll be doing things that other MMORPGs avoid like the plague, thus distinguishing City of Heroes from them.
1. This was a marketing piece. Not even this game delved into the game mechanics in marketing pieces or turned them into question and answer bug sessions.

2. Do you have a question that in the past Castle or BaB would have answered that they could have answered? Something other than "why won't you admit you suck when it comes to PvP changes" for example. Honestly, we went through such a burst of knowledge transfer between '05 and '07 there aren't actually that many questions left *to* answer that aren't gripes in disguise.

3. We still have lots of sneak peeks about things coming in the future. Just not one per hour like everyone seems to want.

4. Nate's new. He's still not used to dealing with us. When it comes to our expectations for dev communication and the boundaries we seem to think are appropriate, we are a psychotic bunch.

[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]

In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
Well, Z, TbH - that PVP answer *was* a dodge. And the "we fix bugs that come up?" The bugs, perhaps, but given the entire PVP (dedicated and casual) community's massive drop and seeming state of being ignored since I13, well...

I'd say you're getting some pretty tame replies.
they don't fix bugs.

*looks at kin melee which can do 1k damage and placate proc*

yea they don't fix bugs

Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
Something to keep in mind when reading articles such as this. Yea though we link to it in the forums and on Facebook, the target audience for "gaming media articles" isn't always the active Community.
I was actually going to say exactly that. The target audience for these pieces is almost always potential new customers, not existing ones. That's what internal communication on these boards is for.

The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction

 

Posted

I thought it was a positive piece. For a 7 year old MMO now dealing with two newer, shinier competitors it came across as confident and got in a couple of sly digs at them for copying fantasy mmo concepts that just don't have any place in a superhero game.

 

Posted

Quote:
Paragon Studios recently announced that City of Heroes Producer Jesse "Ghost Falcon" Caceres would be moving to a different position at the studio
What is Ghost Falcon's new position?

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by warden_de_dios View Post
What is Ghost Falcon's new position?
Supreme Overlord of the Denying All Knowledge of CoH 2 Sector.

@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

The have not been focusing on pvp. That marketing speak response was utterly false.

EDIT: The bugs they've fixed are good, but there are STILL some glaringly obvious ones.

And fixing bugs is a MINOR thing compared to nothing being said about rolling back or fixing some of the utter . . . I can't think of a word that won't get me a mod smack when describing I13 pvp so I'll stop there and simply say that marketing needs a reality check when it comes to pvp in this game.

Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!

 

Posted

You all are missing the big picture here (one that has been brought up by rednames in this very thread):

The interview was not meant to inform the current player base.

The only reason we even know about it is because NCSoft wants us to know that, yes, they are still trying to be in the public eye as much as possible.

You don't get anything informative out of marketing. Haven't you people been paying attention for the last 7 years?

You'll also never get an apology for any perceived slight, so stop begging for them.

Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by warden_de_dios View Post
What is Ghost Falcon's new position?
Out of line of fire.

[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]

In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)

 

Posted

"2. Do you have a question that in the past Castle or BaB would have answered that they could have answered? Something other than "why won't you admit you suck when it comes to PvP changes" for example. Honestly, we went through such a burst of knowledge transfer between '05 and '07 there aren't actually that many questions left *to* answer that aren't gripes in disguise."

"What are the technical challenges involved in revamping peacebringers? How differently set up are they from regular archetypes, codewise?"
Because that sets up the context in which suggestions for improvements can be made. By knowing what's not possible, it becomes simpler to pose suggestions that are possible without breaking the design or forcing a revamp that would utterly change the archetype.

And Marketing should include bits of solid information that can't easily be found on the press release pages, simply because you're trying to get the attention of gamers who are savvy enough to be able to click on links and type in web addresses. Giving them a hint about where the game is going beyond what we've gotten so far is something that could excite BOTH the current community AND prospective new players.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison View Post
All that stood out to me was the massive dodge of a "What do you plan to do for the PvP crowd?" question.
I'm glad I wasn't the only one that felt that way. I still miss zone PVP, and especially Base Raids.

@Phillon
Twitter @FiveIronBrony

 

Posted

What would make this game better IMO is monthly reports detailing what is happening in the game. In a certain MMO, the lead designer does these monthly reports with the headings:

In Testing
These items are currently being tested on either an internal test shard or on Public Test Server.

Under Investigation
These issues are hot topics in the QA and CS world. It by no means represents all the bugs we're looking into, but instead new issues that I want you to know we are on top of.

In Development
These items are actively being worked on by the devs at this time.

In Design Discussions
The lead designers are currently discussing these features for implementation in an upcoming update.

Under each heading is just the name of the feature being worked on. There is the obvious warning that these items are subject to change and only deal with the current state of the game at the moment of the post.

I would rather have devs that are a bit too open about what they plan to do than keeping quiet about everything.

The first step in being sane is to admit that you are insane.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starcloud View Post
"What are the technical challenges involved in revamping peacebringers? How differently set up are they from regular archetypes, codewise?"
Because that sets up the context in which suggestions for improvements can be made. By knowing what's not possible, it becomes simpler to pose suggestions that are possible without breaking the design or forcing a revamp that would utterly change the archetype.
"What are the technical challenges involved in revamping peacebringers?"

That depends entirely on what you want to change, or more specifically what you want to add that the game engine currently doesn't support. Peacebringers have no special considerations in that regard when it comes to powers design.

"How differently set up are they from regular archetypes, codewise?"

Codewise, in no way whatsoever. Even Cosmic Balance is just a power, no different fundamentally than any other in terms of how its constructed and implemented.


and


"By knowing what's not possible, it becomes simpler to pose suggestions that are possible without breaking the design or forcing a revamp that would utterly change the archetype."

Most of the design rules that the devs follow when altering or rebalancing powersets or archetypes are not technical in nature. In fact, almost none of them are. Most of them are a complex web of different overarching design rules and specific design intents that have little to do with what the game engine can do or what is theoretically possible. They have to do with design integrity and game balance.


Worth noting that the devs rarely answered such questions, not even Castle and certainly not BaB. The person that fielded such question the most often, by a 100 to 1 margin, was me. Because those questions were rarely not loaded questions, and the devs tend to steer clear of loaded questions. They are also open-ended questions, and the devs didn't have the time to answer open-ended questions.

Knowing what is and is not possible *at all* regardless of archetype or powerset can be useful. But the knowledge and experience necessary to really understand that fully represents years of accumulated knowledge. The players that are interested in that topic have acquired such knowledge over time. The devs do not have the time to give every player that wants it a crash course in such matters. If you really want to know such things, you're not going to learn from reading marketing interviews. You're going to learn by asking the playerbase, and collectively those of us that know will have to answer your questions one at a time.

I teach technical classes of a variety of complexity levels. If I were to teach a class on everything I know about how the game engine in general and the powers system in particular works, it would be a three to four day class. Of eight hour days.

[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]

In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Severe View Post
ill go along with the rest of these posts...very typical answers and a major dodge to the pvp question.

boy i can only imagine what would have happened if he mentioned bases* shudders to think*
what would be VERY entertaining is if these "Interviews" started asking questions the playerbase has been asking for years.

Interviewer: So, what are the plans for pvp?

Marketing: squirm squirm... dodge dodge...

Interviewer 2: what ever happened to the base raiding feature in the game?

Marketing: Squirm twitch squirm twitch twitch fidget...

Hilarious... or pathetic?

you decide

Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.

 

Posted

Typical marketing speak interviews, lots of text and very little content.

NCSoft, these interviews bore/insult the players you already have and do nothing to attract new players. No one out there is going to read that tripe and say "I'm going to play City of Heroes!"

 

Posted

I dunno, it seemed pretty honest to me. He basically admitted that they're hesitant to touch PvP again for fear of making things even worse. Not encouraging, but honest.

99458: The Unbearable Being of Lightness
191775: How the Other Half Lives
My Webcomics

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JKCarrier View Post
I dunno, it seemed pretty honest to me. He basically admitted that they're hesitant to touch PvP again for fear of making things even worse. Not encouraging, but honest.
Wonder what "honesty" we could get for bases.

Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.