WST -- Ill-conceived.


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Posted

I feel the need to complain about the Weekly Strike Task (or whatever the acronym is; I only know that they refuse to use the obvious 'WTF'.)

I don't care that it's necessary in order to get the rarer incarnate boosts. I don't care that it was badly tested, and a zone-crashing bug got loose into the live game. I can overlook those poor decisions.

What I can't accept is how ill-conceived it was to tell the entire playerbase to do the same task force over and over again.

Last night on Virtue, Independence Port had tremendous lag and appeared to be about to crash at least twice that I saw. Getting onto Stateman's ship was a slideshow. Telling your players to gather in the same zone every single day was a bad decision.

But even that's minor compared to the mind-numbing tedium of doing the same task force several times, on one character or with several. And once you've completed it on one character, that character is too powerful to find challenge in any other content in the game -- not that you can play any other high-level content, because most everyone else is grinding away at the WST.

Issue 19 came with new, challenging task forces that reinvigorated the high level game. Issue 19.5 is a step backwards, instructing the playerbase to re-consume old content for even less reward. The WST is a recipe for boredom, and it will only be played for as long as people can stand doing repetitive tasks. Every player will have their limit; I hit mine in one day.

I just wanted to give the devs my opinion. They made a misstep with this design. Be sure that, in Issue 20, you give us something interesting to do. Please.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by RemusShepherd View Post
I feel the need to complain about the Weekly Strike Task (or whatever the acronym is; I only know that they refuse to use the obvious 'WTF'.)
I refuse to say "WTF" because we're not in middle school.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RemusShepherd View Post
What I can't accept is how ill-conceived it was to tell the entire playerbase to do the same task force over and over again.
While I understand this point of view, it's not like people don't already do that with things like the ITF, Katie Hannon, and the LGTF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RemusShepherd View Post
Last night on Virtue, Independence Port had tremendous lag and appeared to be about to crash at least twice that I saw. Getting onto Stateman's ship was a slideshow. Telling your players to gather in the same zone every single day was a bad decision.
Just so you know, using the first day of a new release with everyone clamoring for the new rewards and the new system is NOT a good way to place a benchmark.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RemusShepherd View Post
But even that's minor compared to the mind-numbing tedium of doing the same task force several times, on one character or with several. And once you've completed it on one character, that character is too powerful to find challenge in any other content in the game -- not that you can play any other high-level content, because most everyone else is grinding away at the WST.
You knew the rise in power was coming. You did. You have no reason to act surprised or be disappointed that old stuff isn't "challenging." Hell, this can even be fixed with a five minute (or less) trip to the nearest Fateweaver/Field Analyst.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RemusShepherd View Post
Issue 19 came with new, challenging task forces that reinvigorated the high level game. Issue 19.5 is a step backwards, instructing the playerbase to re-consume old content for even less reward. The WST is a recipe for boredom, and it will only be played for as long as people can stand doing repetitive tasks. Every player will have their limit; I hit mine in one day.
Even less reward? Did you read the features? Double rewards for the WST. Double. Double. And that's ON TOP of Alpha-unlocked characters getting a notice. By the time I have the ingredients to open up my Core Paragon I'm going to have about 500 reward merits (helping friends get their Rare is good!).

Quote:
Originally Posted by RemusShepherd View Post
I just wanted to give the devs my opinion. They made a misstep with this design. Be sure that, in Issue 20, you give us something interesting to do. Please.
They will. Honestly, your opinions could have been spoken a week and a half ago and they'd apply. You knew the level shift was coming, you knew that the WST would be one hell of a cramped package on the first day, and you knew (and didn't recognize) that there would be double the rewards for the WST.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by RemusShepherd View Post
(or whatever the acronym is; I only know that they refuse to use the obvious 'WTF'.)
They didn't use it because the US Government already went there with the Wiki-leaks Task Force.
Yes, someone in the Government either has a sense of humor, or more likely, is woefully out of touch with life in general.


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Posted

Also no matter what rumors you hear lv shift does NOT effect your inf/xp/prestige gain.


 

Posted

They are saving WTF for the War witch Task Force. Of course they will probably actually abbreviate it as WWTF.


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Posted

I don't agree.

1. Over time this will get people to run more and different task forces increasing variety.
2. Also, these events will obviously be less popular on Tuesdays in the future, but everyone was racing to get a taste of 19.5.
3. Finally, your comment largely represents the gameplay of a powergamer (ie. the person who regularly has time to run multiple TFs in a single evening). Powergamers generally tend toward repetitive content anyways.

Finally, we will eventually, it seems, have other ways to get the Notice of the Well, so our experience will change some once i20 comes out.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by RemusShepherd View Post
What I can't accept is how ill-conceived it was to tell the entire playerbase to do the same task force over and over again.

Last night on Virtue, Independence Port had tremendous lag and appeared to be about to crash at least twice that I saw. Getting onto Stateman's ship was a slideshow. Telling your players to gather in the same zone every single day was a bad decision.

But even that's minor compared to the mind-numbing tedium of doing the same task force several times, on one character or with several. And once you've completed it on one character, that character is too powerful to find challenge in any other content in the game -- not that you can play any other high-level content, because most everyone else is grinding away at the WST.

Issue 19 came with new, challenging task forces that reinvigorated the high level game. Issue 19.5 is a step backwards, instructing the playerbase to re-consume old content for even less reward. The WST is a recipe for boredom, and it will only be played for as long as people can stand doing repetitive tasks. Every player will have their limit; I hit mine in one day.
It's new and shiny. Once people get their level shifted characters, it'll be back to norm for most of us (sure, there will be a good number doing the Strike Targets for the bonuses, but even I saw people doing the ITF last night).

Give it time. You're not unique. There are and will be others that get bored of this, just like when the alpha slot was first released. Remember? For a week or two people did nothing but the endgame task-forces for shard drops. By the second week I was forming for posi runs, and soon enough most other players were moving away from (strictly) 50 content too.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by RemusShepherd View Post
I just wanted to give the devs my opinion. They made a misstep with this design. Be sure that, in Issue 20, you give us something interesting to do. Please.
To me this game has become like an ice cream store with (for the sake of argument) 19 flavors of ice cream. Yesterday the "store owners" just introduced a new flavor. Obviously everyone's going to crowd around the end of the store where the new flavor is kept and there will be shortages/problems with serving it until everyone gets used to dealing with it. But eventually it'll become just like all the other flavors: some people will like it, others won't. Time will move on and sooner or later the Devs will give us yet another new flavor to choose from.

I see the introduction of the WSTs as no better or worse than any other newly introduced feature.
We'll have to adapt to it just like anything else. *shrugs*


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothic View Post
To me this game has become like an ice cream store with (for the sake of argument) 19 flavors of ice cream. Yesterday the "store owners" just introduced a new flavor. Obviously everyone's going to crowd around the end of the store where the new flavor is kept and there will be shortages/problems with serving it until everyone gets used to dealing with it. But eventually it'll become just like all the other flavors: some people will like it, others won't. Time will move on and sooner or later the Devs will give us yet another new flavor to choose from.

I see the introduction of the WSTs as no better or worse than any other newly introduced feature.
We'll have to adapt to it just like anything else. *shrugs*
Reasonableness high five.


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Posted

its nice that people were actually willing to do a non ITF or LGTF for once without a lot of effort. it might be grindy, but at least we don't have to grind the same TF to get the pieces we need. we have variety, which won't start to really be apparent for a while, but its still nice to see old TFs/SFs get exposure.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by RemusShepherd View Post
I feel the need to complain about the Weekly Strike Task (or whatever the acronym is; I only know that they refuse to use the obvious 'WTF'.)

I don't care that it's necessary in order to get the rarer incarnate boosts. I don't care that it was badly tested, and a zone-crashing bug got loose into the live game. I can overlook those poor decisions.

What I can't accept is how ill-conceived it was to tell the entire playerbase to do the same task force over and over again.

Last night on Virtue, Independence Port had tremendous lag and appeared to be about to crash at least twice that I saw. Getting onto Stateman's ship was a slideshow. Telling your players to gather in the same zone every single day was a bad decision.

But even that's minor compared to the mind-numbing tedium of doing the same task force several times, on one character or with several. And once you've completed it on one character, that character is too powerful to find challenge in any other content in the game -- not that you can play any other high-level content, because most everyone else is grinding away at the WST.

Issue 19 came with new, challenging task forces that reinvigorated the high level game. Issue 19.5 is a step backwards, instructing the playerbase to re-consume old content for even less reward. The WST is a recipe for boredom, and it will only be played for as long as people can stand doing repetitive tasks. Every player will have their limit; I hit mine in one day.

I just wanted to give the devs my opinion. They made a misstep with this design. Be sure that, in Issue 20, you give us something interesting to do. Please.
I agree with you. How anyone can defend the devs releasing this with massive bugs that cause crashes is beyond me. We have test for a reason.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toony View Post
I agree with you. How anyone can defend the devs releasing this with massive bugs that cause crashes is beyond me. We have test for a reason.
Well to be clear I'm certainly not defending the bugs or problems with testing in this case. I'm just arguing that the concept behind the WSTs (regardless of the unique problems introducing it to the game) is really not any worse or better than many of the other new features we've gotten over the years.

Once the problems are fixed it'll be yet another choice of activity for us to be involved with.
You aren't being forced to like it or hate it regardless.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothic View Post
To me this game has become like an ice cream store with (for the sake of argument) 19 flavors of ice cream. Yesterday the "store owners" just introduced a new flavor. Obviously everyone's going to crowd around the end of the store where the new flavor is kept and there will be shortages/problems with serving it until everyone gets used to dealing with it. But eventually it'll become just like all the other flavors: some people will like it, others won't. Time will move on and sooner or later the Devs will give us yet another new flavor to choose from.

I see the introduction of the WSTs as no better or worse than any other newly introduced feature.
We'll have to adapt to it just like anything else. *shrugs*
Gotta agree with Loth here. Sure, we could go back and forth a few times with a mild discussion of the wisdom of packing a lot of players into the same (older) zone, but that same discussion could be made about any 2xXP weekend or the release of a new TF or even the rare "dev sponsored" special events (like the Manti/Sis P wedding) and parties (Pocket D Meet and Greets) which pack even more players into a zone.

This mini-issue has been a nice, straightforward release that is precisely what it says on the tin. If there's any negative commentary I feel could legitimately be made it's the +1 crash issue, but that has nothing to do with the Weekly Target and would exist no matter what the weekly target was.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toony View Post
I agree with you. How anyone can defend the devs releasing this with massive bugs that cause crashes is beyond me. We have test for a reason.
Just for clarity's sake, if 19.5 was released without the crash bug, would you still be agreeing with Remus?


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim View Post
While I understand this point of view, it's not like people don't already do that with things like the ITF, Katie Hannon, and the LGTF.
Those people choose to run the same task over and over. Those are not the only tasks that grant the rewards people want, they're just the fastest. People who want their rare boost have no choice but to run the same task over and over. This is the difference.

Quote:
You knew the rise in power was coming. You did. You have no reason to act surprised or be disappointed that old stuff isn't "challenging." Hell, this can even be fixed with a five minute (or less) trip to the nearest Fateweaver/Field Analyst.
Yes, please. I never saw the point of bringing a full team to beat up even-cons in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Toon View Post
They didn't use it because the US Government already went there with the Wiki-leaks Task Force.
Yes, someone in the Government either has a sense of humor, or more likely, is woefully out of touch with life in general.
My money's on the latter. Exhibit A: Canada's since-renamed Conservative-Reform Alliance Party.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothic View Post
To me this game has become like an ice cream store with (for the sake of argument) 19 flavors of ice cream. Yesterday the "store owners" just introduced a new flavor. Obviously everyone's going to crowd around the end of the store where the new flavor is kept and there will be shortages/problems with serving it until everyone gets used to dealing with it. But eventually it'll become just like all the other flavors: some people will like it, others won't. Time will move on and sooner or later the Devs will give us yet another new flavor to choose from.
It's not a new flavor though. We already had the flavor. It's more like the store owners just introduced hot fudge sauce, but you're only allowed to have it on chocolate ice cream. People aren't going for the chocolate because they necessarily like it best, but because they want hot fudge sauce.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction View Post
Those people choose to run the same task over and over. Those are not the only tasks that grant the rewards people want, they're just the fastest. People who want their rare boost have no choice but to run the same task over and over. This is the difference.
Fair enough, madam.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction View Post
Yes, please. I never saw the point of bringing a full team to beat up even-cons in the first place.
Now, I can't tell if you're being snarky or agreeing with me. If the former, my point remains valid in that Remus knew the level shift would make the current content easier and complaining about it isn't really doing anything productive. If the latter, I agree. Waiter, +3/x8 served raw, if you please!


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction View Post
It's not a new flavor though. We already had the flavor. It's more like the store owners just introduced hot fudge sauce, but you're only allowed to have it on chocolate ice cream. People aren't going for the chocolate because they necessarily like it best, but because they want hot fudge sauce.
The WSTs are a new feature of this game thus a new "flavor" in my analogy. The fact that the new flavor this time around may have been Neapolitan really didn't factor much into the general point I was making.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rush_Bolt View Post
Just for clarity's sake, if 19.5 was released without the crash bug, would you still be agreeing with Remus?
If there was no crash bug but, there'd be no problem. But the crash bug is a HUGE problem when it can negate an entire LRSF in one D/C. I don't think I've run into anything quite this bad before.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction View Post
It's not a new flavor though. We already had the flavor. It's more like the store owners just introduced hot fudge sauce, but you're only allowed to have it on chocolate ice cream. People aren't going for the chocolate because they necessarily like it best, but because they want hot fudge sauce.
I agree with this analogy the most. We always had these task forces, now we are getting special rewards for them during a given time period. It's icing on the cake, so to speak, but only if you like the cake. Then it's just icing.

But, also to point out, it's my personal choice to run said task force of the week even if I don't like it. If I absolutely hate the chosen task force of the week, I could always wait until next week for one that I may like better. Point in case, I personally do not like the STF/LRSF. I don't find the story or mission sequences compelling and do not enjoy the AV mechanics. So, last night it was my choice to run them for the new rewards they are giving this week. I didn't particularly enjoy the task force, but I enjoyed the reward at the end.

So, using the ice cream analogy, the shop owner introduced hot fudge sauce to their menu (which I absolutely love), but will only be adding it onto a select flavor each week, and that flavor changes. This week it is chocolate with hot fudge sauce. I have a gag reflex against chocolate ice cream, but man do I love my fudge sauce. I could get it anyway and hope the sauce makes up for my lack of liking chocolate ice cream. Or, maybe I'll wait until next week and maybe the shop owner will add it to their cake batter ice cream, because I love me some cake batter ice cream.

All in all, bugs or no bugs, I think this is an interesting system they have employed and agree that, once the shininess wears off (just like any new system they have given us over the past 7 years), things will baseline. Heck, even on the first night last night I was able to get in on a group running the Cap TF.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
If there was no crash bug but, there'd be no problem. But the crash bug is a HUGE problem when it can negate an entire LRSF in one D/C. I don't think I've run into anything quite this bad before.
I agree that it's bad. But there's a difference between saying the bug is a very bad thing and saying 19.5 is a very bad thing.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rush_Bolt View Post
I agree that it's bad. But there's a difference between saying the bug is a very bad thing and saying 19.5 is a very bad thing.
I have no issue with I19.5, bar the lack of option given to those without time to do long TF/SFs and such.

I have a major grudge against the bug that robbed me of everything from last nights LRSF


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
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Posted

Not really seeing how they're being told to do the same task over and over. They're being told to do the task once/week for the rare bits [need what, 4 total for V.Rare?] But the task changes every week.

It's only if you really want that badge for helping people finish the WST after you got your notice that you're being forced to do the same task over and over.

As a sidenote, there's a spot when you're behind the submarine hatch that will let you click into the mission while the hatch is up. That said, they need to really improve that door [and any other door with similar 'functionality' that's on a potential WST cycle].


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim View Post
Now, I can't tell if you're being snarky or agreeing with me. If the former, my point remains valid in that Remus knew the level shift would make the current content easier and complaining about it isn't really doing anything productive. If the latter, I agree. Waiter, +3/x8 served raw, if you please!
I'm agreeing with you. I'll take your +3 and raise you a +4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reiella View Post
Not really seeing how they're being told to do the same task over and over. They're being told to do the task once/week for the rare bits [need what, 4 total for V.Rare?] But the task changes every week.

It's only if you really want that badge for helping people finish the WST after you got your notice that you're being forced to do the same task over and over.
Or, you know, to get the rare on more than one character.

Quote:
As a sidenote, there's a spot when you're behind the submarine hatch that will let you click into the mission while the hatch is up. That said, they need to really improve that door [and any other door with similar 'functionality' that's on a potential WST cycle].
They need to improve any door like this, period.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothic View Post
Well to be clear I'm certainly not defending the bugs or problems with testing in this case. I'm just arguing that the concept behind the WSTs (regardless of the unique problems introducing it to the game) is really not any worse or better than many of the other new features we've gotten over the years.

Once the problems are fixed it'll be yet another choice of activity for us to be involved with.
You aren't being forced to like it or hate it regardless.
I was thinking the same thing as I read the OP's rant.

Does anyone remember when Croatoa was introduced? It was THE most packed zone in the game, and everyone took to the forums complaining about how "I'll never be allowed to get the Believer badge! I have to kill a super rare spawn not just once but TWICE and everyone on the server is trying to do the same thing! And how DARE YOU make this required for an Accolade!" Now think about how easy it is to get the Believer badge and how silly that statement really is. Yet it was all over these forums for at least a month.

The same type of thinking applies here.

NOBODY is forcing anybody to do the Statesman TF over and over and over again. I'm on one of the least populated servers, and while there were many STFs and LRSFs starting up in the global channels, there were still plenty of people running ITFs, Positrons and I think I saw someone looking for a team to run Manticore's TF, as well as people still running Tip missions. There is no doom here.

EDIT: One last thing. On the first STF I ran last night, we went to pull the first of the AVs in the last mission (Mako) and we got all four of them. Our initial reaction was "ZOMG! RUN!" But then a few seconds later, our reaction was, "Wait a minute! We're Incarnates! Let's mop the floor with them!" It wasn't easy, but it was FUN. And it was probably the most fun I've had on the STF in a long time. (And none of use had our level shift yet.)


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