Quote:
Burn hits what, 5 targets? SC and LR hit 16 each last time i checked. A fire brute has very easy survivability on a fire ambush map, but if you build your shield right and constantly organize your inspirations to oranges, it'll survive a +2x8 fire ambush mission too. So survivability is equal, this brings us to purely damage.|
Originally Posted by Fiery-Enforcer
Except a SS/Fire beats it in both ST and AoE damage.
|
Let's say burn does as much as shield charge. But it only hits 5 instead of 16. But there's LR too. So you need to use burn a total of 6 times to get the same as LR/SC, but you also need to use it 6 times within -20- seconds. Meaning with it's moderate animation time, you need it to recharge in about 2 seconds and spam the thing. GL with that. Not to mention how much rage crash will cut your farming when you get into the high numbers, where you have to constantly do damage to get the high numbers we all want.
ST, definitely. AoE? Not a chance, because at %185+ recharge levels, you can use LR and SC enough to constantly kill 16 targets at once. LR and SC are only as powerful as they are because of the damage being split up into 2 radius' where one is smaller. But that doesn't matter when you're surrounded by 150 guys. And also because they have pet damagae caps of 400%.
SS/Fire is way easier to farm with, which is what most -need- while farming or else they'll get bored. But i stopped using my ss/fire to farm because i hated being slower than my ele/shield, and that sort of stuff bugs me, even if the shield is 100x harder to play with the repetitive inspiration management.
People praise burn too much, it's been nerfed to hell. Shield scrappers with their already high base damage get AAO, which means they're pumping out more damage than a brute with high fury and rage. Brutes do as much damage, sometimes more, than scrappers until you get to shield scrappers or dark melee scrappers with the +dmg. Shield scraps break the game, and are perfect to abuse for farming.
The only complaint about ele/shield is that it has to wait for it's big hitters. But all you need is as much recharge as you would on a fire/kin and it's golden.
And if you wanted some real answers, should visit the scrapper forums. They actually calculate all these things.
@Sentry4 @Sentry 4
PvP Redux is discontinued, for obvious reasons. Thanks to everyone who helped and joined.
Quote:
Run hero stats with your amazing elec/shield.
|
Originally Posted by Sentry4
Burn hits what, 5 targets? SC and LR hit 16 each last time i checked. A fire brute has very easy survivability on a fire ambush map, but if you build your shield right and constantly organize your inspirations to oranges, it'll survive a +2x8 fire ambush mission too. So survivability is equal, this brings us to purely damage.
Let's say burn does as much as shield charge. But it only hits 5 instead of 16. But there's LR too. So you need to use burn a total of 6 times to get the same as LR/SC, but you also need to use it 6 times within -20- seconds. Meaning with it's moderate animation time, you need it to recharge in about 2 seconds and spam the thing. GL with that. Not to mention how much rage crash will cut your farming when you get into the high numbers, where you have to constantly do damage to get the high numbers we all want. ST, definitely. AoE? Not a chance, because at %185+ recharge levels, you can use LR and SC enough to constantly kill 16 targets at once. LR and SC are only as powerful as they are because of the damage being split up into 2 radius' where one is smaller. But that doesn't matter when you're surrounded by 150 guys. And also because they have pet damagae caps of 400%. SS/Fire is way easier to farm with, which is what most -need- while farming or else they'll get bored. But i stopped using my ss/fire to farm because i hated being slower than my ele/shield, and that sort of stuff bugs me, even if the shield is 100x harder to play with the repetitive inspiration management. People praise burn too much, it's been nerfed to hell. Shield scrappers with their already high base damage get AAO, which means they're pumping out more damage than a brute with high fury and rage. Brutes do as much damage, sometimes more, than scrappers until you get to shield scrappers or dark melee scrappers with the +dmg. Shield scraps break the game, and are perfect to abuse for farming. The only complaint about ele/shield is that it has to wait for it's big hitters. But all you need is as much recharge as you would on a fire/kin and it's golden. And if you wanted some real answers, should visit the scrapper forums. They actually calculate all these things. |
Not sure why do you think SS/Fire is Burn alone. Why would anyone mention a primary if that was the case?
Quote:
Its also REALLY important that its SS/fire/mu or pyre imo. If you are only farming on an SS/fire/nothing you are stupid
.really really stupid.|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
Not sure why do you think SS/Fire is Burn alone. Why would anyone mention a primary if that was the case?
|
And he seems to be forgetting about FE, which can add up wards of 100 dmg to an attack. And the fact that not needing to make oranges means you can pop reds, my SS/fire/mu is generally at the dmg cap for attacks.
And another thing. Both LR and SC, the scrapper one, have only about 35% better AoE DPS (i.e. accounting for the target caps) than JUST foot stomp when you are running at the cap. And thats before taking into account FE.
"I have ridden the mighty moon worm!"
-Al Gore
Fiery Aura is only good for farming, I'm cereal
@Caucasiafro
Quote:
Some of those people that calculate on the Scrapper forum, post here and are telling you you are wrong...
|
Originally Posted by Sentry4
And if you wanted some real answers, should visit the scrapper forums. They actually calculate all these things. |
The Inspiration Maker's Guide [i12] UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
A Flash in the Dark: The Electric/Ninjitsu Stalker [i23]
Kheldian Inspiration Macros UPDATED with POPMENUS and Movement Binds!
Guide to the Katana~Ninja Blade/Electric [i23]
Sheesh, take leave for a few months and still have the exact same thread topics going. Have not bothered to read the thread but Im guessing it is like every single other thread on this topic. Something to the effect of---
Majority-- SS/Fire/Mu
couple others--- no way _____ is much better.
Majority-- why?
others-- cuz SS sux cuz it only haz 1 aoe
Majority-- also has rage and 2 other aoe attacks that are boosted by rage.
others-- rage sux cuz of end crash
Majority-- ok so prove it is better
others-- no you prove SS/Fire/mu is better
Majority-- Its been proven time and time again. Your set is not bad just not the overall best.
others-- my ____ is still better and SS sux.
The blank is normally filled in by Ele/SD (scrapper) or Ele/Fire. Every once in a while you will get some crazy person saying Mace or Axe is better because of the cones but those are few and far between.
Just for farming, with optimal conditions SS/Fire/Mu and with enough recharge SS/Fire/Fire is the best out there for inf/min from kills.
Quote:
It's funny he completely ignores Foot Stomp (which is the best attack), epic AoE, Fiery Embrace, and Blazing Aura.|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
Not sure why do you think SS/Fire is Burn alone. Why would anyone mention a primary if that was the case?
|
Also, farming with a shield scrapper is super easy too, not to mention they're easier to play in the majority of the games content. Oh man I have to pop oranges or greens every so often, that's so hard!
Yes, for farming Burn isn't as good as it used to be. However, I like it better now. Needing an AoE immob to actually get use of the damage was a bad design for a damage power.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
I realize these are the brute boards, and that this thread has been sitting for a few weeks without discussion but:
I've started farming on my WS, and it's pretty decent. I can do the fire ambush farms +0/8x w/ bosses, have yet to try the other farms (axis america, BM, demons, of course). The damage output is solid, dwarf mire's base damage is ~4 less than footstomp, animates twice as fast, and I can maintain 300% damage buff fairly easily. I also have a couple hard hitting AOEs (nova taoe, unchain, quasar), fill my health every 9s if corpses are present and maintain 85% res to all. Not bragging or anything, just think this is decent in comparison to the de facto farmer.
Anyway, I was mostly wondering, what's the best way to determine my inf/minute while farming? Clear my inf, do exactly an hour of runs and divide my total earned inf by 60?
Sorry for getting off the brute topic, but it IS a farming thread. 
Quote:
Hero stats, which is here|
Originally Posted by YoumuKonpaku
Anyway, I was mostly wondering, what's the best way to determine my inf/minute while farming? Clear my inf, do exactly an hour of runs and divide my total earned inf by 60?
Sorry for getting off the brute topic, but it IS a farming thread. |
I like to run a few mishs and pause during load times (since having a slow/fast comp would really **** with the numbers)
"I have ridden the mighty moon worm!"
-Al Gore
Fiery Aura is only good for farming, I'm cereal
@Caucasiafro
Quote:
Aha! Thank you. Now I need to just get more practice in.|
Originally Posted by ultrawatt
Hero stats, which is here
I like to run a few mishs and pause during load times (since having a slow/fast comp would really **** with the numbers) |
One more question: While I can run the above farm w/ bosses, they can take a while to defeat. They'll slowly be worn down by mire as I burn through Lt/Mins, but I can turn Lts/Mins to a fine red mist in seconds. Do you think I would be better served at +0/x8 no bosses? Or maybe a higher +X/x8 no bosses. I haven't gotten my level shift yet, so that'll make it speedier.
You could also write down your inf before and after, and use a stopwatch to time the length of your run.
I don't think there's been post level shift numbers posted, so for reference I'm getting 2435k inf per minute in a +4/x8 fire ambush on my SS/Fire/Mu. Seeing as I'm getting a ~60% improvement on most alts, I'm thinking it's nowhere near the absolute high end - i.e. Fiery Enforcer said he did 2M pre level shift, that could be over 3M post level shift.
Thanks for the input, Nihilii. I was going to make an ss/fire/mu sometime after finishing my WS, but if I can get inf at a decent pace I see no need to do so. I planned on using Spiritual, but if the damage increase from Muscular was significant enough, I think I'd be better off with that. Not too sure, though.
Quote:
I find anything that can break the 1M inf per minute barrier to be fast enough, and thanks to the level shift many builds can hit that. | if I can get inf at a decent pace I see no need to do so. |
As for your Alpha choice, I believe ideally you'd want to cap your damage through red insps (WS cap being not that high it should be easy enough). If you go that way I'd suggest looking up some binds for converting, I've found it much easier and faster than manually doing it. The Very Rare Musculature is barely better than a small red insp (or equal to a medium one), on the other hand no insp can give you more recharge, and until you can chain your AOEs literally without pause, you can always use more recharge.
Quote:
Actually, with the delay in form switching I can technically chain AOEs without delay. But yeah, I don't need red insps, I can cap 300% easily due to mires. Usually can get one nova AOE off during double dwarf mire, i believe, have to watch more carefully. I've been farming with a tray of greens for emergencies, as well as 1 column of blues for quasaring. Honestly, I just need to do it some more and figure out what works fo rme.
|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
I find anything that can break the 1M inf per minute barrier to be fast enough, and thanks to the level shift many builds can hit that.
As for your Alpha choice, I believe ideally you'd want to cap your damage through red insps (WS cap being not that high it should be easy enough). If you go that way I'd suggest looking up some binds for converting, I've found it much easier and faster than manually doing it. The Very Rare Musculature is barely better than a small red insp (or equal to a medium one), on the other hand no insp can give you more recharge, and until you can chain your AOEs literally without pause, you can always use more recharge. |
Quote:
I tested out my Brute with the level shift, however I'm running a Soul Mastery build now, but I managed to get 2 mil/minute without inspirations. With inspirations I was getting anywhere between 2.6-2.8. I'm sure with a Mu Mastery build I'd be able to break 3 mil.
|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
You could also write down your inf before and after, and use a stopwatch to time the length of your run.
I don't think there's been post level shift numbers posted, so for reference I'm getting 2435k inf per minute in a +4/x8 fire ambush on my SS/Fire/Mu. Seeing as I'm getting a ~60% improvement on most alts, I'm thinking it's nowhere near the absolute high end - i.e. Fiery Enforcer said he did 2M pre level shift, that could be over 3M post level shift. |
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
Just a small note about burn. It's max # of targets is 5 at one time. It can easily deal dmg to 10+ targets because as targets die the tics can start to effect new targets. Granted it won't do it's full dmg to more than 5 targets, but saying it has a 5 target max is a little misleading.
Level 50s: to many to remember at this point
Quote:
I wouldn't call it meh, that's for sure. Dropping a burn patch immediately after using lighting rod is pretty amazing. |
Originally Posted by LygerZero
Elec/Fire is meh. Cones arent my thing. It's decent, but not more epic farmer than SS/Fire
|
And cones? The only one I'm aware of is jacobs ladder.
Talen_Lee: Taking absorb pain is like branding 'H' on your forehead. Which stands for 'Failure'
Scarf_Girl: ever since I six slotted my Rp with cyber/emo Hami-O enhancements they haven't been able to touch me
When talking about X inf/min, how much do you take into account?
* Inf drops
* Common invention IO:s (sold at merchant)
* If in AE, how do you monetize the tickets?
* Anything sold to market?
Do you take sell time into account?
Influence per kills only, as to have a fair metric to compare speed between different characters (and different players). Actually gauging influence gains in a way that would be useful for comparison purposes would be much harder, because you start having a lot of variables ; loading times, time spent selling, volatility of market prices, and so on.
Yes, generally just inf/min.
In AE though i think it is VERY important to count ticket/min too as this is were something like 90% of your inf should be coming from. You could easily have 3 inf/min but only 100 tix/min. (which means you need a better mish :P)
Of course, you need to run a few mishs to get a good average for these (thus the pausing during load times).
"I have ridden the mighty moon worm!"
-Al Gore
Fiery Aura is only good for farming, I'm cereal
@Caucasiafro
Quote:
Nope, Burn has been changed. Nowdays there's an initial burst of damage which does 2/3s to 3/4s of the damage (I think) and then the ticks.|
Originally Posted by Brynstar
Just a small note about burn. It's max # of targets is 5 at one time. It can easily deal dmg to 10+ targets because as targets die the tics can start to effect new targets. Granted it won't do it's full dmg to more than 5 targets, but saying it has a 5 target max is a little misleading.
|
So since the initial burst is limited to 5 targets too the damage doesn't spread out as well as it used to. On the upside the new version is better at working with Fury as the old version used to lose its Fury damage boost 2 seconds in due to the way Pseudopets inherit buffs.
Quote:
I'm trying to figure out how you got I didn't know about changes from my post. I stated in the post that it can only effect 5 targets "at once" which was a new burn change. If the front loaded first tic kills it's 5 targets the DoT tics will pick 5 new target therefore it affect 10 targets total. I never said it spreads it's damage equally among it's targets. I just didn't want those who didn't know to think that burn could only damage 5 targets total, regardless of how its spread out.
|
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Nope, Burn has been changed. Nowdays there's an initial burst of damage which does 2/3s to 3/4s of the damage (I think) and then the ticks.
So since the initial burst is limited to 5 targets too the damage doesn't spread out as well as it used to. On the upside the new version is better at working with Fury as the old version used to lose its Fury damage boost 2 seconds in due to the way Pseudopets inherit buffs. |
Level 50s: to many to remember at this point
Quote:
Old Burn worked like that too, except all of it's damage was in the form of DoT. But yeah, I understand what you're saying.
|
Originally Posted by Brynstar
I stated in the post that it can only effect 5 targets "at once" which was a new burn change.
|
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
I use an elec melee firey aura pyre mastery Brute.
It pays quite well.
It all depends on the powers that are taken.
Oddly enough I only use three attacks out of the elec melee tree <four if you count taunt>
The rest are either epics or prerequisites.
I find it a very efficient durable <and tight> build that handles what I want it to.
This build is so profitable that I managed to clone it. The first clone is funded by the primary with everything including purps. The second clone is still a work in progress <I'm taking my time with this one>
I like the two types of damage and the build is a very nice compliment to teams on a TF.
Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.
yesterday at lvl 16 i started running an AE farm with my ss/fm brute, just hit 34 a few min ago. started a 0/0, moved up to 0/8 by lvl 28 and am getting ready to try 1/8 here in few.
So far she been lots of fun, all that melting of faces