City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Day Jobs Over.

BackFire

By BackFire,
Posted on: 2010-12-31 04:14 in Badges and Gladiators

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction View Post
I'm a few days away from finishing my hero. I really wish it would just hurry up already, since I want to go back to Blueside and then take her to Vigilante where she belongs. There are more badges I don't have yet and can't EARN until the stupid day job is done. I want to badge with her. Instead, she's sitting around waiting on a day job.
How i spent the last 2 months

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turgenev View Post
For you. Not for everyone. For instance, me, and the OP. The idea of being rewarded for keeping a toon logged OUT makes no sense to me.
It doesn't reward you for keeping a toon logged out. It rewards you for consistently logging out in certain places. The only way the first statement would seem remotely true is if you would otherwise be playing said character 24 hours a day.

My main badger only has about 7-10 of the day job badges - I'd actually have to go look. But MANY of the others are in various stages of completion because, when I log out, I make a point of doing so in a place that will get credit for one of the incomplete badges. Doesn't KEEP me from playing him, I assure you. On the contrary, it REQUIRES me to log into the character to move him OFF a location for which I know he has, since my last logout, completed a particular badge.

Where to find me after the end:
The Secret World - Arcadia - Shinzo
Rift - Faeblight - Bloodspeaker
LotRO - Gladden - Aranelion
STO - Holodeck - @Captain_Thiraas
Obviously, I don't care about NCSoft's forum rules, now.

 

Posted

My main will be done with dayjobs in about 9 days. By the time he earns the last dayjob badge (& accolade) he will have earned all of the badges available redside (& Oroed every redside story arc) & will be ready to shift alignment back to Hero.

All of my other alts have just about all of the dayjob badges available to them by level, alignment, etc. - & most have the dayjob powers charged close to max. While I can understand the dayjob hate on these boards (I won't afk badge for healing/damage/pvp rep/etc.) I always found dayjobs to be a nice little goal to center my logout activities around - & dayjobs gave me an excuse to log into some seldomly played alts at least occasionally.

Liberty
Mister Mass - 50 Inv/SS/NRG Mut Tank [1236]
Doc Willpower - 50 Grav/FF/Psi Mag Controller
Baron Wonder - 50 SS/Elec/Mu Mag Brute
Sound Bight - 50 Son/Son/Mu Tech Corrupter

 

Posted

Well one badge hunter completes the 6th alignment specific DJ yesterday and now has them all. Sent it into Praetoria and made a clean sweep of all Praetorian badges that can be obtained for a primal toon, then made it a villain again to complete the alignment badges. A good day to be badge hunter, now I just need to switch it back to the blue side.

 

Posted

The design of Day Jobs does not appear to be something that the developers expect players to desire immediate gratification with. It's just a little bonus.

I can understand frustration if you want a specific title, but I just do not see the 21-day duration to be that big of an issue.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychoti View Post
I can understand frustration if you want a specific title, but I just do not see the 21-day duration to be that big of an issue.
It's not necessarily the duration of 21 days that makes it a stupid set of badges, it's that your character is required to be offline to earn them. Maybe if they were done much differently, it'd be a different story.

For example, if I wanted to earn the Day Trader Badge, why can't I just spend "X hours" at the market while ONLINE instead? Granted, somebody who just wants the badge could still camp AFK there for "X hours" and earn it, but it's also something that could still be achieved by the average user simply by being at the market and PLAYING THE GAME over an extended period of time. That's more in the spirit of the game anyway.

Now, I understand that RP-wise the original intent of Day Jobs was to signify what your character is doing while you are "not on the job", but not for nothing... I'm not preventing any crimes while I'm standing at WW's buying stuff either. RP-wise, I think the alternate method would have still worked just fine, but without the nonsense of having to be offline.

 

Posted

The badge system rewards for different activities. This is one of them. It seems odd to me to be rewarded for failure or inconveniences (debt, being mezzed).

Also, I think his point was not so much that people want to be given badges as much as he wanted to belittle people with different opinions.

I do see where you are coming from, M-B, I just don't agree with it.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychoti View Post
The badge system rewards for different activities. This is one of them.
The problem with that reasoning is that being offline is not an activity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychoti View Post
I do see where you are coming from, M-B, I just don't agree with it.
I just want to point out that I'm kinda on your side as well. Even though I don't necessarily like the concept, I'm fine with the way things work right now. I don't think 21 days is that big of a deal. Personally, I kept playing my badge toons despite the requirement of being offline. I understood that I'd earn them eventually and it wouldn't be a problem.

All I'm saying is that it could have been done in a better way from the start. The way it is right now doesn't seem to be in the spirit of the game. Earning credit for my badge because I decided to sign off and go see a movie instead... just seems a bit silly. lol

In the end, the Devs went this way with them and there isn't much chance in changing it, so there isn't really any point fussing over them. Let's just be happy once we get them completed. Let the debate of whether or not to add more continue! Which side am I on? "No. I'd rather something more in the spirit of actually playing the game, but if they do add more.. it's not the end of the world. I'd still get them eventually."

 

Posted

The whole idea of Day Jobs is to have a small sort of offline character advancement. That was what they are designed to be. Patrol XP and some badges for logging off in certain places. We clearly differ on our feelings towards getting something while logged off... it seems there is no changing each others' minds that some people find it to be an abhorrent rebuke of what badging is supposed to be while some people find it to be a nifty bonus that enriches their game experience. I don't think there's going to be any agreement.

As for getting day jobs while logged in... it's funny, I would absolutely hate day jobs if they worked that way. If I'm logged in, I want to play. Also, you could only get one day job at a time with that system. I would probably write off the whole thing as not worth the effort, and just pretend those badges didn't exist.

Proud member of Everyday Heroes (Infinity Heroes), Dream Stalkers (Infinity Villains), Devil Never Cry (Freedom Heroes), Enclave of EVIL (Pinnacle Villains), Phobia (Infinity Villains), Les Enfant Terribles (Freedom Villains), Gravy Train (Virtue Heroes), and more!

Full, detailed character list

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychoti View Post
I think his point was not so much that people want to be given badges as much as he wanted to belittle people with different opinions.
No, I meant exactly what I said:

Having day jobs around seems to give SOME players the idea that it is their duty to come into the badge section and tell the badge community that doesn't like X badge that they want the badge handed to them.

It is a common straw man argument that shows up on these forums far too often and is not even remotely accurate. Frankly I'm sick and tired of having it shoved in my face.



Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patteroast View Post
The whole idea of Day Jobs is to have a small sort of offline character advancement. That was what they are designed to be. Patrol XP and some badges for logging off in certain places. We clearly differ on our feelings towards getting something while logged off... it seems there is no changing each others' minds that some people find it to be an abhorrent rebuke of what badging is supposed to be while some people find it to be a nifty bonus that enriches their game experience. I don't think there's going to be any agreement.
This is the type of argument that makes sense. It actually explains the reasons why the system is the way it is, rather than dismiss our opinions just because the rewards are "free", like many other people do.

With that, I'll agree it's simply a difference in opinion that doesn't make either one of us right or wrong, but I want to point out that my position is not necessarily about "what badging is supposed to be". It's about offline rewards in general. If the Dayjob powers were rewarded based on time spent in certain areas while playing the game, people would still be getting a "nifty bonus that enriches their game experience".

Either way, like you said, it's just a difference in opinion with regards to getting something while logged off. There is nothing wrong with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patteroast View Post
As for getting day jobs while logged in... it's funny, I would absolutely hate day jobs if they worked that way.
Similar badges are somewhat in the game already.
See: Irradiated, Siren's Song, Time Traveler, Web Master, Firebase Zulu Security Detail, Troll Task Force Member.
There just aren't powers associated with them.

Sure, it might take a little bit more programming to make them work in isolated areas rather than full zones, but I'm sure it could have been done if they wanted to. They had to create the isolated zones anyway for the system we have now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patteroast View Post
If I'm logged in, I want to play.
If I'm earning a reward, I want to be playing too.

Buying/selling stuff at the market is still playing.
Buying/selling enhancements in a store is still playing.
Zoning using the Train or Ferry or Helicopter is still playing.
etc..

You still wouldn't have to alter your activities, and you'd still get them eventually. They'd just make more sense (to me). Why should I get an in-game reward for being at work? Somebody else already pays me for that! haha

Those who wanted them "NOW" could still take measures to do so. It's just a matter of balancing your in-game priorities at that point... the point being, they'd be IN-GAME priorities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patteroast View Post
Also, you could only get one day job at a time with that system. I would probably write off the whole thing as not worth the effort, and just pretend those badges didn't exist.
You can only get 1 day job at a time now already. If you mean that you couldn't get partial credit for more than one at a time, nobody said that we wouldn't be able to.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Master-Blade View Post
You can only get 1 day job at a time now already. If you mean that you couldn't get partial credit for more than one at a time, nobody said that we wouldn't be able to.
I believe he meant that you can get them on multiple TOONS at once -- in your scenario, you'd only be able to work on an online toon, hence only one at a time.

Leader of Legion of Valor/Fallen Legion (Victory server)
http://legionofvalor.guildportal.com / http://fallenlegion.guildportal.com

StainedGlassScarlet - L50 Spines/Inv Scrapper | Badges: 1,396
Avatar detail taken from full-size piece by Douglas Shuler here

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Nelson View Post
I believe he meant that you can get them on multiple TOONS at once -- in your scenario, you'd only be able to work on an online toon, hence only one at a time.
Ah. That makes more sense, but then it kinda goes back to the "cause it's free" argument. How many characters I can get it on at once, or how easy or hard they are was never the issue. Depending on how "my" system would have been implemented, the requirements would have to have been drastically changed anyway, so there is no point comparing how effective it would have been.

As for the mechanic of Patrol XP, that would obviously have to work differently as well. In "my" system, you wouldn't earn Patrol XP for being logged off either. You'd probably earn it gradually simply by doing anything else that's not earning XP. Time spent in the Day Job areas (buying/selling things, editing your SG base, or even traveling to your next mission between zones) would add a little Patrol XP. Then every character would still benefit from it anyway, just in a different way.

Again, it's just a difference of opinion. I believe that a character should be online to earn the rewards. While I'm playing Character A, I don't think Characters B, C, D, E, F, G, or H should be getting a benefit. If I want Character B to earn something, I'd switch toons. I don't necessarily care if it might make the badges harder to get on multiple toons at once. That's not the point.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nericus View Post
My issue with the DJ's isn't the concept of the DJ's.....it's the 21 days needed to get it. Seems a bit lengthy to me. 14 days would be more palatable, imo.

10 days to charge up a Day Job accolade...no big deal.
It was 30 days initially, and was reduced to 21.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Globe View Post
After 2-5 day jobs acquired, there sets in a "This is a stupid way to get a badge, how much longer?" attitude. At which point players that want to play their character has to make the choice of "get the day jobs out of the way as fast as possible" or "I might cancel my subscription before I collect all the day jobs". That was exactly what I was feeling. Yes, it bugged me that much.

I have a handful of characters I love to play. My badge collector is at the top of the list. I've been put into the situation for the last two years of choosing to either play my favourite character or potentially fail to get all the day job badges.

This is a choice I never should have been faced with. I totally blame the developers for this mechanic, and it is one of the things that has lessened my love of this game.
Why not just *not* concentrate on the DJBs? No one forced you to log a character in a particular place (no one but you, at least).

And incidentally, you didn't have to avoid playing a character to get the badge. The DJ time is cumulative for each log out.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Master-Blade View Post
You can only get 1 day job at a time now already. If you mean that you couldn't get partial credit for more than one at a time, nobody said that we wouldn't be able to.
I think you still get double-credit on the boat in Gville. Don't know if patrol XP is doubled, but time for Smuggler and the Gville badge are gained simultaneously.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spear0 View Post
I think you still get double-credit on the boat in Gville. Don't know if patrol XP is doubled, but time for Smuggler and the Gville badge are gained simultaneously.
Nope.

Thought so too, but proven only one is applied (it was Smuggler in my case).

█ Players Guide to the Cities

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stalemate View Post
Nope.

Thought so too, but proven only one is applied (it was Smuggler in my case).
Yeah I remember that one and checked it the other month. Long since fixed along with the other known hotspots. Used to be a place in Shark where you could have gotten the graveyard badge in a week due to a hotspot.

 

Posted

I guess I am understand if people are wanting to get these badges ASAP. It's easy for me because I don't care about how long it takes and I have SO MANY alts that not playing a toon is very, very easy.

Global Name: Denver Nugget
Playing since i3 on 8 servers

 

Posted

I'm more annoyed at having to remember to move toons :P I tried getting dayjobs on most of my toons at first, then that got old. My only badger spent the first year in one place because of this annoyance. Of course that's my fault, but still >.>

I'll be happy if they don't add any more dj's though. I'm pretty sure the last 6 I need will take me and my laziness about 2 more years.

<:[ shark goes nom nom nom ]:>
[QUOTE=theOcho;3409811]As to the REAL reason I'll be leaving, I'm afraid it is indeed because Tamaki Revolution dc'd on me during a RSF.[/QUOTE]

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Master-Blade View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patteroast
As for getting day jobs while logged in... it's funny, I would absolutely hate day jobs if they worked that way.
Similar badges are somewhat in the game already.
See: Irradiated, Siren's Song, Time Traveler, Web Master, Firebase Zulu Security Detail, Troll Task Force Member.
There just aren't powers associated with them.

Sure, it might take a little bit more programming to make them work in isolated areas rather than full zones, but I'm sure it could have been done if they wanted to. They had to create the isolated zones anyway for the system we have now.
Really think about that for a minute. You'd want Day Jobs to award you for just standing in front of a Crey Building? or at the Tram? or next to the SG Portal? Doing nothing but standing there in a fairly small invisible box? I guess you could just stand there and chat, but I'd think that would be worse that going there to log off for the night. At least that way you can get some progress while you sleep, work or go to school.

As for new Day Jobs, I wouldn't mind seeing one for being inside the Chantry or for being on the perimeter of the Storm Palace, since you can't go inside unless you are on a TF. I've always been partial to the Shard and Rularuu, so adding a bit more flavor there would be pretty cool.

I will agree that I think the duration required per Day Job is a bit steep. Would have been nice to have one Day Job Bonus boost the Day Job progress bar of other Day Job locations. Build up a bonus at one location and then log out at a new location earning double time for X hours, or something like that.

Past that though, I kind of like the Day Jobs and the little bonuses they give you.

Also, grats to the OP!

-= idspispopd =-

[size=1]Arc ID: 3155 - Project Prometheus (Seeking Feedback, now with less invalidation)[/size]

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone_Jack View Post
Really think about that for a minute. You'd want Day Jobs to award you for just standing in front of a Crey Building? or at the Tram? or next to the SG Portal? Doing nothing but standing there in a fairly small invisible box? I guess you could just stand there and chat, but I'd think that would be worse that going there to log off for the night. At least that way you can get some progress while you sleep, work or go to school.
Nobody said that the exact locations of day jobs would necessarily still be the same if the mechanic was different. It would be a different system, yet still yield Patrol XP and other benefits while not in your missions.

As for the specific issue of standing near an SG portal or Train, maybe the cumulative time to earn those rewards would only be about 30 minutes or so. For a few second here and there every time you zone, it would still take a while to earn for the average user, but somebody who wants it "now" could still do so in a fairly balanced way.

It's all speculation since they weren't implemented that way. Like I said before, you can't compare how useful or not useful it would have been that way since it doesn't exist. If they wanted to balance it, it would take more finess than a standard 21 days for everything, but it could have still been done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone_Jack View Post
I will agree that I think the duration required per Day Job is a bit steep.
Again, my position was never about how hard or easy they are.

 

Posted

Hmm. Even considering expanded areas and shortened times, the theoretical day-jobs-while-logged-in system mostly just makes me feel how I imagine people who vehemently dislike the logged-out system feel. I find a time and location based reward while logged out to be unobtrusive and efficient, but while logged in to be annoying and constrictive. I was thinking specifically of badges like the PvP zone, Hollows, and Shadow Shard ones, and as long as they're zone-wide they're not so bad (although I personally don't like PvP, so those ones annoy me... but that's my choice, and I feel that's not necessarily bad design.) For example, a logged-in day job at the market would take me much, much longer to get, even if it took drastically less time, because I always do my business at the markets quickly and leave.

I know it's immensely unlikely they'll ever change the system, but at the very least, thinking about it in that way does seem helpful to seeing the other side in this discussion.

As for shortening the day job requirements down to two weeks, I would fully support that. I've always felt that would be a better amount of time since they were first announced.

ETA: Oh, and I do wish they would fix the broken market day jobs in Praetoria, and perhaps add a few of the others that would make sense there, so below-twenty characters could get more work on them done.

Proud member of Everyday Heroes (Infinity Heroes), Dream Stalkers (Infinity Villains), Devil Never Cry (Freedom Heroes), Enclave of EVIL (Pinnacle Villains), Phobia (Infinity Villains), Les Enfant Terribles (Freedom Villains), Gravy Train (Virtue Heroes), and more!

Full, detailed character list

 

Posted

What I would have liked to see: being logged off for up to 16 hours a day would count (not the whole 24 hours), and only up to 14 days.

14 days to get a day job would allow a new player to get 1 accolade during their initial 30 day play period.

By limiting the credit to 16 hours / day I wouldn't feel that there is a choice between playing and getting day job credit.



Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters