The Impossible Mr. Trapdoor and Issue 19's New Theme

just done, trapdoor, one invuln/dark tank, one dark/regen scrapper, one rad/rad defender....I (scrapper) was on clone hunt...I found one clone looked around and arrived at trapdoor in time to get one shot in before he turned blue....

whole fight...about 30-40 seconds

first comment by anyone

"heh, people have trouble with this guy"

Personal curiosity for those in the know on math, but if we already have ED for all our powers. What would be the big deal about putting a system like that in for buffs and debuffs cast on mobs (I guess this would be DR?)? And how they effect mobs?

And if not that why not a hardcap? Say 150-250% of what a bubble def could do with every defense power up? OR a dark could do flooring acc, or sonic's -res? (again keep in mind I'm not a numbers fan, so I leave this to the experts) That way you don't impact the solo ability of the lone def through a hard nerf. And while the second one may not be operating at peak he's still bringing something to the team.

I mean the only thing i could see it really impacting might be all defender teams, after all when do you actually see more then 2 of any one defender type (defense buffer, or def and acc debuffers such as storm or dark) on any one team?

Just don't see why it would be such a big deal, and might put the whole buff/debuff aspect of the game more in line with other goodies such as purple patch, global defense nerfs and ED.

Anyway that said, I gotta take a little jab at you Reiska, cause seriously, you want to equate juggling 2 AV's, 2 GM's, neurons clones, and a possibily pissed off bobcat with "Hurr dur err tank and spank!"

Sorry but I rank that on the divorced from reality scale right up there with people who attack those who do have issue with the diff and I19 as people who "want to one shot everything with brawl."

But that doesn't answer your question, am I happy with tank and spank? In a word, yes, if it aint broke, don't fix it. After all it's not like every TF, every story arc, every Trial, every safeguard, pretty much every piece of content for the last 6 years pre incarnate pretty much runs along that mentality at it's purest form. Even the Apex TF when you get right down to it, after all you still need a taunter for BM, and you said it yourself when I wondered about ambushes, "The tank wasn't dong his job."

Tank and spank isn't all that accurate though a term though, as we don't need the tank, or the scrapper, or any one AT to get the job done. That's the beauty of coh, and it's a beauty I feel is going to be left wrecked in the ditch as the incarnate train plows right through it. You can already see it fights like honoree and trapdoor, more so with BM. Certain AT's just have far more trouble with the arcs then they should because of gimmicks. Again look at MM's, I got janked three times by honoree, got fed up, called my only friend online, popped call to justice on his pets, honoree died in under 10 seconds. Kinda left me wondering. Yet how many pets are really going to be viable in the BM fight as they aren't smart enough to puddle dodge? And if the puddles target the mm, how is he gonna have the time to get pets back up?

Trap door? Good luck chasing down clones depending on the AT (hi stone tanks) and when you get right down to it, how sad is it that the simplest way to beat his gimmick is with another? (lava or pulling from clones into hall)

This is the core of why Apex bad, Tin Mage good. It's not just the tank and spank aspect, it's the sense of actually feeling useful. In the BM fight I had maybe 3 powers that were at all useful, and all were just my St attacks. 3 powers out of two trays worth and change. How heroic did I feel (As I said before) running around like a spaz pretending I'm level 4 again as that's all I could use? Not in the slightest.

How epic did I find it crashing through portal corp to take down that massive walker outside. Then afterwards chasing down clones left and right by freezing and pounding them, then going to town on Berry and his toys, watching us hold off him and two GM's at once, then wailing down lil miss super cat one tick at a time? Given I had a whole lot more options to choose from, a whole heckuva lot more heroic, and it was a lot more fun, "Giant HP bags" be damned!

Anyway /rant. You did ask for suggestions too, so here's the list I thought up in two hours at work, though before I start, a question for you right back. If tank and spank is so boring, what's your suggestion to fix it? More of this?

Sooo if every malta boss suddenly gained director 11's crazy mines of doom, or say every KoA boss gained a nerve gas grenade that insta killed any hero in the blast, how many players do you honestly think would choose to fight them compared to now?

Suggestion #1 Splitter AV

Already coded in, we see the DE do it when they break into little guys. So why not a boss that every time you killed an aspect of him, say the AV splits into two EB's the EB's split into bosses, so on down the line. Maybe if you don't kill them fast enough they also could recombine as the herc titans do?

That and just for kicks why not have them go up a level every time they split? So if you had a +0 AV by the end you've got the +4 minions to deal with?

#2 Evolving boss.

Coded in, we see the red caps do it when they upgrade, or council turning into warwolves. So why not a boss that does the same, after all you could keep the same costume model but just change his powers, maybe higher damage, more aoe, some such as that? Though I'd give the final form wings myself (cookie for anyone who gets the joke)

#3 more AV's like nueron and the Prae version of countess Crey.

I LOVED the fight with the countess, all the decoy's and chasing and popping all those copies was a shining gem in the manure that was 95% of the 1-20 game in praetoria. Same with running down all of berry's Clones, it was a good way to throw in adds that wasn't a cheesy Hi I'm requiem, lets just insta fill the room!

#4 Av fights where maybe not killing off the AV at first is the objective. Or there's a little something to blow up first.

Thinking of the fights with IVY, and part of the STF put together here. Invincible AV for a strech till you pop that object, or maybe cope with a few waves while trying to keep her off your back.

#5 More fights like Belladonna's crazy porting, but add a few twists.

Like say perhaps exploding decoy copies (think vahz zombies) Or having the AV port off to leave little surprises like gas traps and seeker drones.

#6 AV's that power cycle.

Have no idea how viable this honestly wold be, but I was thinking something perhaps like Rommie in a way, kill the AV and it respawns minus a fluffie or invis buffing pet. But during the fight it changes up behavior, think a bot with an attack program giving it a big damage boost, then switching to a defensive one, or a regen ability. Just every time you kill it one of them gets knocked off. And depending on team make up actually thought of adding in a temp power that scrambles the bot, and makes it switch to a different one, or there's a chance to knock them all out of whack, and it's down to basic attacks for a few seconds.

#7 Terra Volta style fight.

Not just the AV to contend with, but something to protect, even though I'll be the first to admit a burning hate of all things escort mission, no matter the game. Not sure how to set it up though, or the context to use it in.

#8 more environmental hazards!

Why not a crey warehouse full of lab equipment? Who knows what'll happen when it goes off near an AV or the team? Or an area covered in easily triggered bombs for extra damage to the AV, or maybe a debuff cloud? Lots of ways to run with it.

#9 if we're gonna ambush, why not be creative about it?

Instead of piling on mobs, why not try changing it up, say a map where there's rooftops snipers spawn on to attack as you engage, and tactics might dictate luring the AV out of their line of slight to reduce your damage. Leaves an option for flyers perhaps to also go up and engage while melee's pound the AV and keep it busy.

Thought about setting them to of course despawn and appear on another roof after a set time period, also considered backup say in the form of longbow sky skiffs to engage them, add a little extra chaos to a fight.

#10 Why not a little backup during the AV fights?

Inspired by DE farming during the eden trial from ambrosia. Take the final tim mage mission as an example, how awesome would it be if you cleared out enough of the guards that you got as backup the signature heroes joining in with the fight (RP it as thinning the invasion so less heroes are needed to guard the portal) I mean who wouldn't want BaB's as a pet? =p

#11 Why always people, why not a tank or more stuff like the mega walkers?

Why not something a super nemesis steam tank perhaps, more arachnos flyers, dropships, the list goes on. Even had a silly notion about APC's driving in during an AV fight, perhaps stopping them before they can unload troops an option during it.

#12 How bout a PvE version of a base raid? Why not run the gauntlet into an AV lair?

Narrow halls, plenty of turrents, the AV himself porting away to try and lure into different traps, we got all the toys laying around and not being used, so what's stopping the devs from making a map like that?

Anyway there you go, feel free to tear to shreds now ^_-

Hey, never said they were good ideas, just me being bored at work. =p That and if you do the countess fight, there's a world of difference between it and the dr aeon one imho. Same with Neuron.

Regarding #8 though you're mistaking my intent, I'm not thinking things like the mines or puddles, but things like bombs you see in the hollows, or the ones used in prae cut scenes that leave burn patches everywhere placed as destructible objects (though now that I think about it this really benefits ranged over melee again, hmm that's no good, same for mm pets) That or the lab equipment on certain tech maps, the ones that if you blow it give random buffs or debuffs.

It's an effort to throw a little more luck or tactical aspect into a fight above, "Oh crap it's a puddle run away!"

That and I still want to know, why the hate on a system that's worked well enough so far? Still stand by my if it aint broke opinion. People say tank and spank like it's a bad thing, but hey one players fun right? And if it's not tank and spank, then what should it be? After all BM is still just that, all she has going for her is the puddle gimmick and the swords of doom spawn, the latter of which is standard AV fight fare. But it still boils down to damage > boss regen rate = win. Not much we can do about that as it's how the game's coded and how mmo fights work.

Just trying to throw some stuff out there that isn't cheap one shot material to put on top of it.