WW's reasoning for no weather. Disagree!

She could have basically applied the same logic to "Ultra Mode" graphics. For those who don't know, in the New York Post article War Witch said she was a against weather for the sake of weather. She went on to say she would want a compelling reason to add a weather system to the game, not just add it because it's cool. I really, vehemently disagree with that statement.

One of the greatest goals for any game, especially one where you intend to have very long-term players, is to give them a reason to care about the world they are playing in. Weather may not directly contribute to a players sympathy towards the characters or universe, but the total lack of weather has an extremely detrimental effect on tearing players out of their suspended disbelief. It's like when you are running around Atlas Park smacking down baddies and 3 identical looking male NPCs named "Becky" go walking on by, and when you click on them, they ALL say the exact same thing.

Things like that smack players out of the moment and you start to see in a very obvious way all of the dirty plumbing behind the pretty picture on your monitor.

The lack of any dynamic environmental effects makes the game world feel like a sterile, lifeless, and utterly static bubble world. The winter event festivities outside of the winter lodge area take place in either the dingy back-alleys of the Rogue Isles, or on the sunny, perfect days of Paragon City (which is in NEW ENGLAND!)

In my opinion, lack of weather alone makes it impossible to ever feel like the world your're in is "real" and in that sense makes it a lot harder to give a crap about anything that happens in it.

She did state that if anyone came up with any ideas on how to implement weather and make it matter in a gameplay sense then it might be something to consider. Well, I had a few ideas on that matter as well.

- Weather dependent enemy spawn dynamics. Is it raining or snowing? Maybe the gangs stayed home. Decreased Hellion activity and a general lack of people being outside means more clockwork robots are prowling the streets looking for scrap. Maybe in some zones the enemies just straight up leave. Winter Horde enemies crop up during blizzards. Cabal show up during thunderstorms.

- Weather patterns that mimic real-life Rhode Island. Snow falls during winter, storms rage during spring/fall.

- Defeat badges for taking out enemies during bad weather. You braved the elements to defend the people of Croatoa during a raging blizzard proving you are a true Winter Warrior!

- NPC behavior/appearance changes. Instead of just roaming the world aimlessly, NPCs out in the rain have umbrellas, maybe some are holding new papers over their heads and are running along faster than usual. Snowing? NPCs are wearing coats. Maybe they are making building a snow man.

- NPCs in need of help. Cars stuck in the snow or people lost in the rain in the middle of a violent thunderstorm can all use your help. Various badges can be awarded for helping people out of tricky situations.

Of course it wouldn't always be perfectly clear or storming. It could be dark overcast, cloudy, partly cloudy, sunny, etc... All of this helping to enhance immersion. Weather conditions would last for 3-6 hours before changing and can gradually improve/degrade, etc...

Anyone else have any ideas to implement weather into the game in a way that would have actual gameplay hooks?

*edited to better represent WWs statement.

I also feel that this is laziness! Weather is important to immersion. The more every "day" is the same, the less I'm pulled out of the game. This is a City, not a holodeck. Let's have some rain in spring, some snow in winter! Can you imagine the snow on The Hollows or clouds hanging more often than not over Baumton? It would be a really cool effect that could subtly flesh out the lore and feel of the world.


Now, I don't feel it's worth the technical effort, but I was instructed by the willing hot dog to "Disagree!", so I did. Hope that helps!

I'd take weather effects just to add to the ambience of the game as well, however I dont think it should interfere (hoever neat it would be) with the characters abilities.

I disagree with your disagreement.

First of all, if bad weather has any sort of negative impact on players (rain makes fire powers less effective, sunny days make ice less effective, storming decreases player accuracy, snow/ice slows movement speeds), then people will avoid areas with bad weather until it clears up. Similarly, it's not fair to players if one powerset gets a boost (like ice works better in the rain, or fire works better in a drought) when the majority doesn't get those bonuses.

If there are weather-dependent spawning rules (snow makes thugs stay indoors), then it's going to really screw up missions where you're tasked with street hunting, such as the giant hunt in the Numina TF. But unlike the Rikti Raids (that last for what, 15 minutes?), you want them to last THREE TO SIX HOURS?

Your other suggestions for gameplay additions don't really sound fun. Open-zone missions where you have to lead an NPC to an objective (because it's so much fun in Warburg, right)? How would you even handle helping someone's car being stuck in the snow if you're, say, a Defender? Sorry, how would you handle it and make it fun to do?

The only thing I don't disagree with is that yes, weather would make the game more immersive. But, as War Witch has said, she's not going to add weather solely for immersion purposes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nethergoat it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!

I have never cared about weather effects and I never will. They do precisely zilch for me. Yes, they're cool to see. Once. Beyond that, they're just fluff, and I agree with War Witch - they add nothing to the part of the game that I care about.

"Immersion" is such a blanket statement these days, what with people throwing it around willy-nilly, that it no longer has any meaning or weight. I, for one, would be much more "immersed" in the game if I could colour my Ring of Fire to be the same colour as my Cremate and my Healing Flames than I would be if it rained or it snowed. In fact, having weather and seasons tends to distract me from games more than it helps, with the possible exception of L4D2 where it actually makes you blind as a bat, thus carrying a gameplay effect.

I will always pick more costumes, more powers, more locations and more customization over weather.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

It is a fairly poor reason, yes. The game, Paragon City especially, looks very.. artificial. There's little rhyme or reason to it's layout and design, and little that you'd expect in a real city. Take Atlas Park:

This is the heart of the city, yeah? City Hall and everything?

... Why is the Argosy Industrial District that close to it? Here's what Atlas Park should be to me: Parks, Trendy apartment complexes, shopping arcades and pedestrian areas, high rise buildings of varying architecture and tourist attractions.

Adding Weather onto this would be lovely. Imagine it, when it's raining, Hellions huddle under bridges, waiting for the foolhardy to pass through for easy pickings. Clockwork playing up as the rain messes with their already rusted bodies. Vahizlok's forces staying hidden in car parks and near sewer entrences, ready to grab a victim. If NPC's switched from jeans and t-shirts to coats and umbrellas, those less fortunate running for shop entrences to hide in while the shower passes. A less... rapid day/night cycle making things less ridiculous, and NPC's doing things that you'd expect people to do (Window browse, sit on park benches, sip coffee.

I'd have been blown away if I saw that when coming into Atlas Park for the first time. It would have made the game less 'Game World is just what fills getting from Contact to Mission Door' and more 'Wow I want toe explore and fight crime!' for me.

Not everything can, or should, have a game effect. Sometimes the aesthetics are the icing on the cake that can enhance a playing experience without altering the mechanics of it. "Just on my way to that mission, hold it, some Hellions skulking in the shade near that park... *fly in, take them down, fly off.* That'll keep people out of trouble."

Praetoria was a good start for a city. Yes, it's an artificial one, as it was supposed to be, but it looks way more real than Paragon City ever has.

(Also, imagine a dark, rainy night in Steel Canyon's Blyde Square. Bright Neon advertising logos pinned to shop and high rise buildings, shining in the drenched darkness as they compete with each other. Pleading for attention from a cold, hurried populous just wanting to get what they know and get home.

Above Cooke's Electronics, a Red Beast display flickers and crackles as one of the Outcast's electrical-gifted mutants starts to sabotage the display. His attention rapt by his amateur lighting work, the wind and rain dulling his hearing, he works clueless to the presence of the caped hero floating behind him. Not even the rain can dull the bright red and black, Icon-outfitted meta's attire.

"I'd like to see your work permit for that." The hero spoke with a smile.)

I have a little spray bottle next to my computer and when I want to change the game up I spritz water onto my screen to simulate rainfall.

I'm another who would love weather to have some presence in Paragon. I was under the impression that weather was being looked at actually; I could have sworn that sometimes the clouds were greyer than usual above Imperial.

I've always wanted weather during particular events, too. I've always thought that the Banner event needed a little rain, and the winter event needed more snow. I tend to dress my characters up for the winter event, and they tend to look brilliant in the chalet, taking down lord winter, and all those wonderful wintery things. But they look silly when they're standing on a green grassy patch in Steel with the sun bearing down on them.

As far as effecting gameplay is concerned, whenever I thought about weather in-game (which is quite often), I always thought that minor zone-wide buffs would be applied. A tiny bit of cold resistance in the snow, for example. If you're adjusted to the cold weather, that cryo-ray should affect you that tiny bit less, right? I also like the idea of citizens having trouble with the weather, in the form of mini-zone events that you could come across. I don't think that villain spawns should really be disappearing because of the weather, though. As has already been said, it's suprisingly annoying as it is when a Rikti Invasion clears the streets of those Tsoo you're after, and even worse when you get a mission to hunt Council in Steel these days.

However, I have heard that weather is a very difficult thing to do. I can sort of see where War Witch is coming from, considering it from an effort:effect point of view, but I know it would just add its own layer of visual awesome. It's something I've always wanted since day one, is one of my absolute top wants, and I suppose I'm suprised it hasn't found its way in yet. If this became the next 'Ultra-mode' for the team to strive for, I'd be unspeakably excited.

I agree with the "Weather? *MEH!*" crowd.

I don't log in on a dreary winter evening just to see...a dreary winter evening in the game. I have enough problems with SAD making me irritable as it is. I don't need a game reinforcing it unless I get a get out of jail free card for my first homicide. And I'm only marginally joking.

Yes, there's some aspect of a bubble world with Paragon City. I honestly couldn't care less, even with extensive effort, drugs, and some highly radical brain washing techniques.

Powers, power customizations, missions, costumes, etc. GIMME GIMME GIMME!

Weather? Well, uh...how do I turn it off?

Weather that flarks with my powers? HOW THE **** DO I TURN THIS **** OFF!?!? I can't? Where's the unsubscribe button?

'Nuff Said

Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

I'd love weather, just because of the filming possibilities. Even if we could just get varying skies (if not rain, sleet, snow, etc) for some variety, it'd be really nice. I don't know if, for example, there's a way to randomize the SKYFILE settings so you go from RANDOMDAY --> RANDOMNIGHT.

And weather the way it appears in AION would be neat... you're standing around, then boom, it's raining or snowing, your character briefly looks up and goes, "oh well" and keeps going. Doesn't affect gameplay at all, just looks nice.

EDIT: To clarify - this is hardly the most important thing I'd like to see in COH. I'm just saying that if it became available, I'd be happy.

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite

Weather would be great. The devs should get right on it!

Right after they finished the incarnate slots, power customisation, power proliferation, revamping old content, revamping old costumes, more new costumes, more animations, a merged server list ...

Just to say that, yes weather would be nice, but I'd rather have the devs working on just about anything else first.

id rather they work on weather then these small lvl story arcs...plenty of things they could stop doing

I agree with War Witch's reasoning for the most part, but I do think there's one place where a little weathery variation would add a great deal to. And it doesn't even have to be rain or anything, either. I'd just like one sunny day in the Rogue Isles, okay?

It's really not a matter of technical difficulty, reality of it ever happening, how much time it would take, or whether or not it would cause other areas of development to suffer.

The point I was trying to make was that weather absolutely enhances a game's level of immersion especially in a game that is supposed to be representing a dynamic, persistent world. I was also making the point that weather can also absolutely add gameplay scenarios and hooks to justify it.

Although I'm not of the opinion that you need to "justify" implementing something as basic as weather. It's like trying to justify the day/night cycle. To me, not having weather is just as absurd as it would be if it was bright and sunny 24/7/365.

Personally I just found War Witch's statement about it to be flabbergasting and totally hypocritical in the light of how much they've been patting themselves on the back over Ultra Mode graphics. Not that I'm "calling out" War Witch. That's just my reaction to her statement.

While I agree with the sentiment that I would rather resources were spent on missions, costume items, powers etc.

I also agree with the OP that weather adds as much ambience to the game as does Ultra Mode which they really hyped up. WW's statement doesnt make much sense in contrast. Walking also added very little to the game yet look how many people LOVED it when that feature was added. I agree with the poster who said this just sounds like laziness.

Ultra Mode adds absolutely nothing to the game for me. I would have preferred weather if I had to choose one or the other.

Besides, whatever happened to Positron's statement about giving the players what they want?

I totally think we need some strong wind effects at the very least - like something to make our hair blow about.

Because building reflections added a whole new depth to combat...

Weather effects ARE in the game... kinda. Well, those that didn't see it in the first Incarnate mission, you'll see the lightning in the sky with moving clouds and lightning patterns. You can see the burning embers floating through the sky. You can see the water bubbling and boiling.

Sure, it's in an instanced mission, but I'm sure they could change the graphics for the burning embers to water drops or snowflakes.

I'd be all for limited weather effects during zone events or special events. Just having something thrown in to change the scenery will drastically change the way you see the game. Look at Ultra Mode. Seeing such detail and realism can give you the ability to appreciate the game, especially after seeing the same ole same ole for 6 years. But then you remember that it's just a prettier coat of paint slapped onto the same old house. (Sorry if that sounds harsh.)

Will weather effects bring in new customers? I highly doubt it. But will it make longtime players feel like the game is evolving along with their characters? You bet. And the people that are going to spend more money, year after year, are the longtimers that feel that all they invested (time & money) into this product and company are well worth it and worth the continued support.