If You Were Castle How would you change Stalkers?
Quote:
I'd love to see that effect but with Recharge Speed. Granted, the speed would exclude, AS, BU and Placate. Imagine it; you nail an EB and then just start wailing on him. Faster and faster and quicker and boom boom boom boom BOOM. Done.
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
I would just like to state that I would be willing to give up every last ounce of AoE on my stalkers (even take a single target version of Lightning Rod) if it meant that I could be pushing out the highest single target effective DPS sustainable.
I say "effective DPS" because raw single target damage can equate to AoE damage by switching targets. Stalkers are the single target specialists; they are assassins. They should be able to whittle down the hardest targets quickly. With that in mind, what I want is some kind of snowballing bonus that becomes immense, but fades the instant you switch targets. The longer my stalker fights a single target, the more damage he should do. Be it through a constantly increasing crit rate or some other mechanic. If my stalker locks on to it, it should die quickly. That would make them immensely desirable to teams, as AVs are what slow even great teams down. Oh, and please preface just about ever sentence in this post with "In my opinion." |
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
Quote:
Bah, let it help BU, AS, and Placate. You're still going to spend the time activating them.|
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
I'd love to see that effect but with Recharge Speed. Granted, the speed would exclude, AS, BU and Placate. Imagine it; you nail an EB and then just start wailing on him. Faster and faster and quicker and boom boom boom boom BOOM. Done.
|
I don't know if it really helps unless you can actually decrease the casting time, though. I say this because you might quickly get to a soft recharge cap where you're rotating the two most damaging attacks you have, and further recharge would be wasted. I could be way off, of course.
I dunno, though, the idea has some serious merit. Maybe a combination of the two? More common crits on the target and +recharge. Swing heavy attacks faster, crit more often. Rolling snowball.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
... wait. Make the effect with critical chance.
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Bah, let it help BU, AS, and Placate. You're still going to spend the time activating them.
I don't know if it really helps unless you can actually decrease the casting time, though. I say this because you might quickly get to a soft recharge cap where you're rotating the two most damaging attacks you have, and further recharge would be wasted. I could be way off, of course. I dunno, though, the idea has some serious merit. Maybe a combination of the two? More common crits on the target and +recharge. Swing heavy attacks faster, crit more often. Rolling snowball. |
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
Quote:
Some things we know exist in the code right now that make this possible:|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Bah, let it help BU, AS, and Placate. You're still going to spend the time activating them.
I don't know if it really helps unless you can actually decrease the casting time, though. I say this because you might quickly get to a soft recharge cap where you're rotating the two most damaging attacks you have, and further recharge would be wasted. I could be way off, of course. I dunno, though, the idea has some serious merit. Maybe a combination of the two? More common crits on the target and +recharge. Swing heavy attacks faster, crit more often. Rolling snowball. |
Bruising from tanks
Ability to recharge a power on a "crit" from kinetic melee
+ recharge buffs (many sources)
+ damage buffs (many sources, I'm thinking defiance from blasters)
Streakbreaker (chance to hit against specific target)
So, what if stalkers got either a variant of bruising or defiance, and the chance to crit when not in hide inherent was removed and replaced with a chance to placate (includes granting hidden) or chance to regain hidden?
Only new code would be making the defiance damage buff target specific, but I think they might be able to leverage streakbreaker for that.
Maybe?
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
Quote:
It's not so much the low hit points that's the problem. I mean really, defense goes a long way in making low health cap not to much of a problem.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
Funny I hate losing aggro on my Stalker like that if I team with squishies. I even try not to use Placate that much because I want the aggro to stay on me if I can handle it. :P
Am I the only one who is not bothered by our less HP? I really don't think I attract that much aggro to being with. I mean we have less AoE and we have Hide and Placate already to lose aggro. |
The problems with it comes down to...
1) The health cap is easily reached...
WP can easily reach the cap with HPT and Accolades, making all +HP set bonuses a waste.
Regen can easily reach the cap with Accolades + set bonuses, making Dull Pain just another heal on a long recharge. Not to mention, lower hit points equals weaker Regen rate.
2) The resist based sets, don't get as much out of the hit points either.
Now mind you, this is all with set bonuses in mind. Messing around with MIDS, it wasn't to hard to get a /SR Stalker to the Health Cap.
And if I remember the build correctly, it reached a little over 1700 HP.
My WP build reaches just a bit over 1800, and could get even higher if I tried to get it higher, but there's no point. WP reaches over the (current) HP cap with just HPT and the accolades.
That's the only reason I suggest raising it to 1800. WP would still likely hit the cap no problem, the others might get close, but not as likely to hit the cap (though likely still possbile if really pushed for it.), giving /Regen a bit more bang out of Dull Pain as would Energy Aura's Overload.
The other secondaries will get more use out of their set bonuses.
If it wasn't done, it wouldn't be a big deal to me personally.
I like the idea of -Regen attached to Assassin Strike, but I'd only see that useful for the big targets (EB's, AVs, GMs, Monsters).
Which might have Stalkers looking more appealing on teams that plan to face them, but not nearly as needed, as that tends to be a limited engagemnt for most of the game, not to mention you have Corrs, Defenders, Trollers, MM's usually to bring it as well.
Now, as someone who likes to build to solo AVs, you'd think I'd be all for it. But really, the increase in damage mod imo, would bring more to the team for regular missions (taking out enemies through more DPS, either through better ST DPS or increased damage on the few AOEs available), and thusly help on the tougher targets just as much (though admittedly, not as much as the -regen would likely help).
I also know, when I have stalkers on the team, I don't think of their AOE fear from their AS. I think of them only as more damage. The fear and -tohit, just isn't that useful, and to make it useful, I think it might put to much control for AS (ie...it'd need to be so little chance of failing, it might be over done).
Mind you, all this is just my opinion. And whatever tweaks Castle comes up with I'm sure I'd personally be fine with.
My thought however, is that Stalkers are looked at and wanted for team DPS without needing some to look after as much. Right now, Brutes and Scrappers do that well enough, that some people over look Stalkers.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
My vote:
Stalkers are more fragile than a scrapper?
Fine compensate with more damage. I'd suggest a higher base damage modifier, as that'll get the most mileage on teams.
Stalkers are more single target focussed than other ATs?
Fine, make new content more rewarding to those who specialize in single target damage. Have a chance for EBs to replace a whack of minions in large team spawns.
Stalker's AS, and generally fast tempo/limited endurance becomes less relevant on teams?
Fine, make new content include a few mobs that really are dangerous and hard to control on large team spawns. We can already do this a little in AE content, though not in a well controlled way. In any case, this will increase the value of single target spike damage, either from scrappers, ST focused blasters or whatever... but stalkers will be especially good.
Imagine a blaster or stalker saying to a tank: Don't worry, I've got your back" and having it mean someting...
What I'm not especially interested in?
A whack of extra HP or more AoE. We have scrappers for that.
Just my two cents worth...
context: I've only ever played 5 stalkers, so my experience is limited... obviously take with a grain of salt.
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
Quote:
This doesn't actually sound half bad, but the numbers are way overinflated. I would think a -250% regen for 10 seconds (which is the debuff found on envenomed daggers, and AS recharges before that anyways) and [Pyre Mastery.Melt Armor] numbers for -res/-def. That'd be more reasonable
|
Originally Posted by DarkMaster
ASSASSIN STRIKE: Crippling (bonus attribute): : (debuff applied after a "successful" assassin strike)
|
Quote:
See, personally, I don't think they are. I think they're right at about what they should be. The job of this debuff would be to assist Stalkers i securing their role as "single target eliminator/damage dealer." Anything less than that, and Stalkers wouldn't even notice a difference in performance. They also still wouldn't be considered for teams, with a debuff any less. I could see the -Regen portion being lowered some to no less than -250% regen for 30 seconds, but nothing else really, otherwise it'd be one of those debuffs that might as well not even be there and would still leave Stalkers out cold when picking teams came around..|
Originally Posted by Silverado
This doesn't actually sound half bad, but the numbers are way overinflated. I would think a -250% regen for 10 seconds (which is the debuff found on envenomed daggers, and AS recharges before that anyways) and [Pyre Mastery.Melt Armor] numbers for -res/-def. That'd be more reasonable
|
Once again, this debuff is no-where-near as powerful a debuff as what most Defenders and Corruptors have access to, and most of their debuffs can be applied "on-the-fly" and to more than one target at a time (aoe). Crippling, would be a single target debuff which would require the Stalker to be in melee range to use it and risk having it be interrupted or miss altogether. The debuff would only apply after a "successful" assassin strike and would not be allowed to stack by the same caster. At absolute most, a Stalker might have up to two mobs affected by the debuff at any given time, but that doesn't make for a very effective aoe debuff by any means. So again, it's no-where near too powerful when in comparison to what real debuff classes have to offer imho.
Also, I think 30 seconds is more than a valid debuff duration, especially since the idea behind this debuff is to make Stalkers more effective against "single" hard targets such as +2 lvl EB's and AV's. Anything less time than that, such as a mere 10 seconds....would seriously cut into the Stalker's overall damage output in the end and actually be contradictive to what it's suppose to help us with...which is damage. Because in order for the Stalker to re-apply the debuff...he has to either lose aggro and get into hide status again (which means zero attacking which equals zero damage) or use placate. In either case they'd then have to follow up with and land another Assassin Strike, and as most Stalkers know, AS in general really isn't good for overall dps figures, and can actually severely reduce them.
So no, 30 seconds is a fine number imho. Ten would be way too short for anything worth the debuff, as in most cases you're not going to kill a high level EB or AV in less than 10 seconds..
Anyways, the idea behind AS containting a "debuff" similar to this one is what we're pushing for here, and I really think that overall it's a great idea. We'll leave it to the dev's to decide what the actual debuff figures should be lol..
Quote:
IMHO, it's the way to go.| if you can break line of sight for N seconds, you lose aggro |
AS is fine, i'm not for giving everyone debuff, everyone good damage, everyone huge hp...
each AT are supposed to fill a specific task in a team (every patch, those "role" tend to vanish :s)
stalker are sneaky and deadly assassin.
being hidden or using placate while every mob on the map are still chasing you like if you were wearing a ligthed disco suit is a nonsense.
losing aggro would mean more possibility to survive, to take down grops of dangerous foes one by one (and not just staying taking blows while you are supposed to be a master of invisibility), to get rid of nasty debuff etc..
i already pointed that resistance mob in going rogue at high level are what stalkers should be once they begun a fight.
a pulsing stealth (we got that with hide if we don't get hit) that makes you trully disappear.
adding a -threat component or a pulsing AoE placate effect maybe..
like they are, the master of invisibility are no more good than a widow or scrapper with stealth and the stealth IO, which is really sad :s
My thoughts haven't changed much since this was first brought up.
- Increased HP cap
- Make Placate inherent and in its place return one of the removed AoEs
- Give AoEs a 100% crit rate from hide
- Make the AS demoralize effect go off regardless of mob defeat
- Reduce the animation time on Placate. At its current animation length some sets have no attacks that benefit from Placate. It only serves to lower DPS.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by BrandX
It's not so much the low hit points that's the problem. I mean really, defense goes a long way in making low health cap not to much of a problem.
The problems with it comes down to... 1) The health cap is easily reached... WP can easily reach the cap with HPT and Accolades, making all +HP set bonuses a waste. Regen can easily reach the cap with Accolades + set bonuses, making Dull Pain just another heal on a long recharge. Not to mention, lower hit points equals weaker Regen rate. 2) The resist based sets, don't get as much out of the hit points either. Now mind you, this is all with set bonuses in mind. Messing around with MIDS, it wasn't to hard to get a /SR Stalker to the Health Cap. And if I remember the build correctly, it reached a little over 1700 HP. My WP build reaches just a bit over 1800, and could get even higher if I tried to get it higher, but there's no point. WP reaches over the (current) HP cap with just HPT and the accolades. That's the only reason I suggest raising it to 1800. WP would still likely hit the cap no problem, the others might get close, but not as likely to hit the cap (though likely still possbile if really pushed for it.), giving /Regen a bit more bang out of Dull Pain as would Energy Aura's Overload. The other secondaries will get more use out of their set bonuses. If it wasn't done, it wouldn't be a big deal to me personally. I like the idea of -Regen attached to Assassin Strike, but I'd only see that useful for the big targets (EB's, AVs, GMs, Monsters). Which might have Stalkers looking more appealing on teams that plan to face them, but not nearly as needed, as that tends to be a limited engagemnt for most of the game, not to mention you have Corrs, Defenders, Trollers, MM's usually to bring it as well. |
1. I can see why HP Cap is a concern. I've never really tried to reach the cap. Good point there.
2. I truly believe having some -regen in AS is going to help Stalkers in SF or regular AV fights. My intention for suggesting -regen is never just for soloing AV. I don't really consider soloing AV part of the real "game balance". Yes, troller, defender, MM and corr have access to -regen but not every set has one. And even if the team already has -regen, it doesn't mean adding Stalker's -regen is "not helping". It just means MORE -regen to help take down "real hard" target(s) faster.
I am not against having more damage for Stalker. The -regen is just one of the buffs I would like to see. I think Stalker's team buff needs to be better (either no radius or even higher critical % since you are never going to have everybody within 30').
3. If I were Castle, and I could only choose between giving Stalker more HP or giving Stalker more damage/-regen, I would pick more damage and -regen. We already have 3 other melee that survives better.
4. I also want to add that even with the team critical buff, I hardly see anyone asking for Stalker for team. This means unless the dev completely overhaul Stalker's design by giving more AoE (which I don't think it's going to happen), most of the buff ideas we have are not going to change others' opinion of Stalker.
In fact, most people don't even know Stalker has team critical buff and aoe fear from AS. Can Castle do something that is going to "wow" the other population? Who knows. I think whatever buffs we may get, it's only going to satisfy the hardcore Stalker fans.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Quote:
It certainly won't be an easy task to fix Stalkers. Even if the 100% AoE KM Crits from hide were kept it would require breaking the cottage rule to get some of the other Stalker sets AoE to take advantage of an "official" change. |
Originally Posted by Jibikao
4. I also want to add that even with the team critical buff, I hardly see anyone asking for Stalker for team. This means unless the dev completely overhaul Stalker's design by giving more AoE (which I don't think it's going to happen), most of the buff ideas we have are not going to change others' opinion of Stalker.
In fact, most people don't even know Stalker has team critical buff and aoe fear from AS. Can Castle do something that is going to "wow" the other population? Who knows. I think whatever buffs we may get, it's only going to satisfy the hardcore Stalker fans. |
Any team fix for Stalkers would still require either the Stalker doing something DPS related that makes the stalker "desireable" and/or buffing the team in a way that makes the team want to want to recruit a Stalker.
From playing my Stalker on teams, I am almost to the point that AS and Placate (Signature Stalker powers) are not even needed. Certainly at high levels on a team, those powers are not that helpful. I'm better off using those powers and slots to help me cap defense and improve survival as much as possible.
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
My vote is for raising the HP cap to 1900 or 2000 and adding to AS either more damage or a debuff THAT ONLY EFFECTS EB/AV/GM level mobs.
Also, add more content with EB/AV/GM level mobs approaching Hamidon in toughness. With a stacked buff/debuff team even the hardest mobs in the game (except Hamidon) take under a minute to kill. We need some end bosses that take several minutes even on the best teams but that grant rewards worthy of the time invested.
Additionally, we need WORTHWHILE rewards on the existing hard mobs such as Lusca, the Arachnos Flyer, etc.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
Quote:
Oh, I don't see the idea of giving -Regen to AS as a bad thing mind you.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
1. I can see why HP Cap is a concern. I've never really tried to reach the cap. Good point there.
2. I truly believe having some -regen in AS is going to help Stalkers in SF or regular AV fights. My intention for suggesting -regen is never just for soloing AV. I don't really consider soloing AV part of the real "game balance". Yes, troller, defender, MM and corr have access to -regen but not every set has one. And even if the team already has -regen, it doesn't mean adding Stalker's -regen is "not helping". It just means MORE -regen to help take down "real hard" target(s) faster. I am not against having more damage for Stalker. The -regen is just one of the buffs I would like to see. I think Stalker's team buff needs to be better (either no radius or even higher critical % since you are never going to have everybody within 30'). 3. If I were Castle, and I could only choose between giving Stalker more HP or giving Stalker more damage/-regen, I would pick more damage and -regen. We already have 3 other melee that survives better. 4. I also want to add that even with the team critical buff, I hardly see anyone asking for Stalker for team. This means unless the dev completely overhaul Stalker's design by giving more AoE (which I don't think it's going to happen), most of the buff ideas we have are not going to change others' opinion of Stalker. In fact, most people don't even know Stalker has team critical buff and aoe fear from AS. Can Castle do something that is going to "wow" the other population? Who knows. I think whatever buffs we may get, it's only going to satisfy the hardcore Stalker fans. |
My thought isn't about AV soloing. My thought comes to the fact, that I'd say for most players, I'd say the -regen isn't really a factor.
So many people who just fight EBs, where -regen is less needed, and I've never fought an EB personally, that I thought "we could use some -regen", now fighting some GMs and AVs I've thought this.
Even with AVs in TFs. Just seems to be a limited use for a majority of the player base.
Yeah, I do lots of TFs, and love trying to solo AVs, but the majority of the player base? I don't think it would be a factor.
Not to mention it's not always easy to get off an AS in an AV fight, or the middle of fighting period
One of the reasons I like the idea of just increasing the damage mod. It works for all periods of play, no matter what you're doing.
Also, with an increased damage mod, maybe, just maybe, my lvl 50 Stalker, can BU + AS to one shot that level 40 (or was it 41) Fake Nemesis Boss.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
I agree. The issue isn't if -regen is useful or if it makes Stalkers stand out. It's just such an addition has so minimal of a use, it won't really do much to help the Stalker's role. You say their role is elimination of tough meaty targets? Well how frustrating do you think it'd be for players to be keeping that debuff going? How much damage (because in fights like that, DPS is where it's at) will the AT sacrifice in those fights just to get a pat on the back? It's also putting to waste that juicy +crit bonus you'll be getting because everyone is huddled around that AV.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Oh, I don't see the idea of giving -Regen to AS as a bad thing mind you.
My thought isn't about AV soloing. My thought comes to the fact, that I'd say for most players, I'd say the -regen isn't really a factor. |
I'm not opposed to such an addition, but I'm opposed to the idea that it'd have the drastic effect you think it will.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
4. I also want to add that even with the team critical buff, I hardly see anyone asking for Stalker for team. This means unless the dev completely overhaul Stalker's design by giving more AoE (which I don't think it's going to happen), most of the buff ideas we have are not going to change others' opinion of Stalker.
In fact, most people don't even know Stalker has team critical buff and aoe fear from AS. Can Castle do something that is going to "wow" the other population? Who knows. I think whatever buffs we may get, it's only going to satisfy the hardcore Stalker fans. |
So what if the devs added an extra couple of ft (possibly some degrees) to their attacks? 10ft Shadow Maul? 15ft 1kcuts? 15ft radius Burst? 160 degree Slice? It's primarily just a value shift. Keep the number of targets in tact but being able to hit that target cap 75% would probably be better than plopping another attack in the set that I have to put slots into.
I feel like the Critical mechanic isn't very useful to Stalkers. Scrappers enjoy it a lot more due to the fact that they don't use BU-AS-Placate-AS. This combo alone doesnt use Critical hit. Instead of boosting Stalker surviveability, I would like to see their damage boosted beyond Scrappers. Why? Because Scrappers are already a hardy class that does consistant damage in either AoE or Single Target. By trying to make Stalkers like Scrappers, your endangering the uniqueness of Stalkers as a whole.
So instead, I propose a change to the critical hit system...
---Assassinate---
Cast Time: Instant
Recharge: 1 Minute
When used, the Stalker's next attack is a critical hit. The Stalker's next attack costs no endurance, cannot miss and is not affected by the target's resistance if it is above 0%. AoE attacks get a flat 50% boost to damage and can still miss, still costs endurance and is still affected by resistance.
The Stalker's Assassin Strike immediately makes this move useable again if the Assassin Strike hits. Assassinate does not boost Assassin Strike in any way other than Assassinate removes the cooldown of Assassin Strike and Build Up if used while hidden.
Whining about everything since 2006.
Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484
Yea, I think that the single target debuff that has been suggested, Crippling, is probably the best suggestion so far, without going overboard. It may not help tremendously for getting invited to teams, but it definitely wouldn't hurt, especially if word got out that we have that debuff ability.
I think that there could be a couple more changes other than Crippling though, as well. Like the HP cap increase suggestion or the increase to the +critical range from teammates maybe. Crippling though, would be a good place to start.
What if Hide were a click instead of a toggle?
Now bear with me here. Give it a 45 second duration and a 60 second recharge. With slotting, it's easily perma. During those 45 seconds, it does everything Hide does now. When you attack, it's suppressed. It grants good aoe defense and minimal defense to everything else. After eight seconds of not getting hit and not attacking, you enter hidden state again.
Now ordinarily Hide is a fire and forget power. We use it to stealth into the group and assassinate the target. AAAnd that's pretty much it until the next group.
BUT when it's activated it would immediately grant hidden status just like it does now. So this way if you're still in a fight when Hide recharges, you could click hide for the chance for a critical on your next attack. The idea is to give stalkers the ability to have more control over their hidden state than just waiting eight seconds for hidden state to kick back in.
To be honest, however, that's not enough of a bonus to merit the change. It really wouldn't do that much. So let's take it a little further out of the box.
Many people have been calling for stalkers to get more damage. Well, I once heard stalkers described as melee blasters. I don't completely agree with that description, but I'll run with it for now. One thing that makes some blasters powerful is the combination of Aim and Build Up. Stalkers get Build up in their primary, but what if Hide were a mini-aim?
Nothing big, mind you - but what if activating Hide also gave us around 35% toHit and a 20% damage boost (vise aim's 65%)?
Now obviously the damage/toHit boost would only last the first ten seconds, but your typical hide/buildup/AS gives a 100% boost to damage for a virtually guaranteed hit (Missing an AS that you've just spent three seconds lining up in MELEE range has irked the hell out of me for years), and criticals from hidden status on other attacks - for the first ten seconds - get a good bonus to toHit and slightly more than the equivalent of a small red inspiration.
It's also obvious that the click-hide would also have to cost endurance. (Say, 5.2? That's what Aim costs)
Okay, that might be worth it. I've been mulling it over for a couple days and I still cant decide whether I like it or not. Am I still in "nutty suggestion" territory? Probably. But let's look at what IO's do to it anyway:
High recharge builds could potentially get the recharge down to around 22 seconds, allowing players to stack it twice. While the damage/toHit buff wouldn't stack, allowing the stealth and defense to stack would be insanely broken, so flagging the power as non-stackable with itself would be necessary. Problem is, does that mean it won't stack with other stealth powers? I frankly don't know. If it did mean that, it would be a deal-breaker.
Alternately, the duration could be reduced to 30 seconds, allowing a ten second overlap at the expense of the ability to make the power perma. Not so fond of that, either, but if it's possible to keep it from stacking with just itself then there shouldn't be a problem there anyway.
Okay, so that's it. I should probably have waited for my second or third cup of coffee before posting anything at all, but it's done now. Thanks for reading my little excursion out of the box.
So should I just stay in the box from now on?
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
Quote:
That fails to do anything for MA or EM - the two sets most in need of AE help. It's kind of like the people suggesting auto crit on area attacks - it makes little sense to "fix" the AT by improving the power sets that are already the strongest.
|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
So what if the devs added an extra couple of ft (possibly some degrees) to their attacks? 10ft Shadow Maul? 15ft 1kcuts? 15ft radius Burst? 160 degree Slice? It's primarily just a value shift. Keep the number of targets in tact but being able to hit that target cap 75% would probably be better than plopping another attack in the set that I have to put slots into.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
I agree. The issue isn't if -regen is useful or if it makes Stalkers stand out. It's just such an addition has so minimal of a use, it won't really do much to help the Stalker's role. You say their role is elimination of tough meaty targets? Well how frustrating do you think it'd be for players to be keeping that debuff going? How much damage (because in fights like that, DPS is where it's at) will the AT sacrifice in those fights just to get a pat on the back? It's also putting to waste that juicy +crit bonus you'll be getting because everyone is huddled around that AV.
I'm not opposed to such an addition, but I'm opposed to the idea that it'd have the drastic effect you think it will. Well, it's not completely impossible for the devs to give Stalkers more AoE. But rather than going the cottage-destroying route, they can do a work-around that has precedence in current Stalker sets. They could simply extend the range of Stalker existing AoEs for more effective coverage. This is kind of already the case for One Thousand Cuts, as it is 10ft for Stalkers but 7ft for the other melees. And it's intentional too. 1kcuts used to be 7ft while the other melees had 5ft cones. When melee range was extended to 7ft, the devs simply left 1kcuts alone for Stalkers but later changed it to 10ft. So what if the devs added an extra couple of ft (possibly some degrees) to their attacks? 10ft Shadow Maul? 15ft 1kcuts? 15ft radius Burst? 160 degree Slice? It's primarily just a value shift. Keep the number of targets in tact but being able to hit that target cap 75% would probably be better than plopping another attack in the set that I have to put slots into. |
I think changing individual powers in each set will take longer for testing and the dev needs to figure out which sets are under-performing in PvE. I think it's pretty obvious that EM and MA are lacking on a larger team due to having no AoE at all but that's up to debate.
What if the dev don't want Stalker to be a Blaster-clone with good AoE? If this is pretty much set in stone, then the only thing that is left is Stalker's Assassin Strike, which is supposed to be the Role-Defining power.
I wouldn't mind some changes in Hide and Placate as well as those two are just as "role defining" as Assassin Strike since every primary and secondary has them.
If I were Castle, I would not give Stalker more AoE and more HP. That would be my position on this AT but I would give this melee AT something that other melee ATs don't have which would be -regen (-regen doesn't have to tie to AS) and even better ST damage (either increase base damage or get rid of critical radius).
This thread is more about "If I were Castle" and this would be my ideal changes on Stalker AT. Of course I would love it if 1K Cuts becomes 15' radius or if Shadow Maul becomes 12'.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Meh... I'm with Leo on this one. -regen is great when you're fighting an AV and absolutely useless the other 99% of the time when you are not.
Why would anyone care about this?
Villains: Annie Alias, Dr. Amperical, Shade Golem, Knight Marksman
Heroes: The Clockwork Mime, Soccerpunch, The Fissioneer, Samurai Houston, Oversteer
Join The X-Patriots on Virtue!
Quote:
Adding area to the AoE attacks stalkers already have isn't meant to 'fix' the AT. It was merely a suggestion but would primarily be a QoL addition. People complain *Stalkers* lack AoE damage. People complaining about Martial Arts and Energy Melee having weak AoE damage is a whole 'nother issue. As is, if you're picking MA or EM on *any* AT, you already know it's not going to be an AoE machine.|
Originally Posted by rsclark
That fails to do anything for MA or EM - the two sets most in need of AE help. It's kind of like the people suggesting auto crit on area attacks - it makes little sense to "fix" the AT by improving the power sets that are already the strongest.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
If I were Castle, I would not give Stalker more AoE and more HP. That would be my position on this AT but I would give this melee AT something that other melee ATs don't have which would be -regen (-regen doesn't have to tie to AS) and even better ST damage (either increase base damage or get rid of critical radius).
|
Not saying Stalkers are lacking or overshadowed but if you're going to improve it, you really need to consider how you come at it. I just find it interesting how many threads have complained about the various issues of Stalkers and yet everyone finalizes a -regen debuff which is an effect even more situational than the power you're attaching it to.
Quote:
| This thread is more about "If I were Castle" and this would be my ideal changes on Stalker AT. Of course I would love it if 1K Cuts becomes 15' radius or if Shadow Maul becomes 12'. |
Quote:
Scrappers have their Single Targeted Oriented sets. And Scrappers have their built for tough ST enemies, and thus lack any AOE.|
Originally Posted by rsclark
That fails to do anything for MA or EM - the two sets most in need of AE help. It's kind of like the people suggesting auto crit on area attacks - it makes little sense to "fix" the AT by improving the power sets that are already the strongest.
|
MA's AOE really isn't all that.
When you invite a MA Scrapper to the team, you aren't really inviting them for the WOW factor of AOE carnage.Same with Energy Melee and Dark Melee users.
Unless you just mean, "at least those sets have an AOE"
Well sure, but I wouldn't really say they offer all that much.
But you do have a point. And it's another reason I think the best suggestion is increased damage mod. It's universal, it upgrades all sets equally.
-Regen is cool, like the AOE debuff from AS. It's nice, but not all together worthwhile later in the game (at least in my experience).
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
This. The *only* time you're ever going to need a -regen debuff is against an AV, and there are debuffing archetypes who were created for that purpose who will always do it better. I don't care how much -regen you tack on to AS, when a team is up against a tough AV fight, no one would ever say "we need a stalker," because the consistent -regeneration debuff from a Kinetic, Radiation, or what-have-you debuffer will always be the better choice than the sporadic -regeneration gained from a periodic AS.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Not saying Stalkers are lacking or overshadowed but if you're going to improve it, you really need to consider how you come at it. I just find it interesting how many threads have complained about the various issues of Stalkers and yet everyone finalizes a -regen debuff which is an effect even more situational than the power you're attaching it to.
|
Never mind the fact that teams can now pick up envenomed daggers that do essentially the same thing proposed for around 1000 influence on the market.
Poof! Everyone on the team can debuff regeneration as well as what's been proposed.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
I would just like to state that I would be willing to give up every last ounce of AoE on my stalkers (even take a single target version of Lightning Rod) if it meant that I could be pushing out the highest single target effective DPS sustainable.
I say "effective DPS" because raw single target damage can equate to AoE damage by switching targets. Stalkers are the single target specialists; they are assassins. They should be able to whittle down the hardest targets quickly. With that in mind, what I want is some kind of snowballing bonus that becomes immense, but fades the instant you switch targets.
The longer my stalker fights a single target, the more damage he should do. Be it through a constantly increasing crit rate or some other mechanic. If my stalker locks on to it, it should die quickly. That would make them immensely desirable to teams, as AVs are what slow even great teams down.
Oh, and please preface just about ever sentence in this post with "In my opinion."
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.