If You Were Castle How would you change Stalkers?
So I've been fiddling around with my Stalker and EA Brute today...and it got me to thinking of another way we could add a small 'buff' to Stalkers, in the form of "survivability".
What if Hide was a two part system? In otherwords, what if there was a portion of Hide's +Stealth that never suppresses? You can find a power similar to this in Brute: Energy Aura: Energy Cloak.
To me, that concept fits a Stalker WAY more than it fits on my Brute. Energy Cloak is sorta nice on my Brute, in the sense that I can attack a mob almost one at a time in most cases, and I rarely aggro spawns that are close to the spawn I'm attacking. In all honest, sometimes he feels alot more like a "Stalker" than my Stalker's do lol...which shouldn't happen. The downside Energy Cloak spells for my Brute is that my Brute WANTS the aggro lol, for damage and defense buffs, and it actually makes it sorta hard to get and keep aggro. But....this is a perfect fit for a Stalker, who really "doesn't" want the aggro of an entire spawn!
So, one of my new proposals to increase Stalker survivability, would be to add a portion of Stealth to Hide that doesn't suppress in pve! After 8 seconds we would attain our current "full" Stealth values from Hide. So basically, anytime the screen says "Hidden" we have "full" Stealth value from Hide. Anytime it does not, we have only the same stealth radius as Energy Aura's Energy Cloak for Brutes. So it would be a 2 part Stealth system, where anytime we attack or take damage, one part of that Stealth suppresses while the other remains active as long as the toggle is on. But only when we are actually in "Hidden" status can we attain garaunteed criticals and Assassin Strike.
This would help us really fulfill that "assassin" role, imho. It means that on teams we would gain alot less aggro than now and be able to stealth around the spawns and remove threats a little safer. It would also mean that we would have a better chance of getting back into hide, since mobs may not even notice us at all and there will be fewer mobs that "do" notice us and attack us. This would really help us to "whittle" down groups as well, when solo, since we could pick off stragglers that wander a little too far from their pack. We can do this now, with a little effort, but a system like this would make it alot easier. It's also very "in-theme" if you ask me too lol.
Btw, this doesn't mean that we are "hidden 100% of the time" and can never be seen. No, not by any means. The mobs that are in your immediate vacinity can see you, you will simply be alot less likely to be seen by a neighboring spawn. You will also gain less aggro and gain it a bit more slowly with this system in place. This will be especially noticeable when running with teams as you will make you alot less likely to gain too much of the spawn aggro. You're not there to play Tank afterall. This is important to both the survivability and damage capability of a Stalker.
I mean....my Brute, of all things...has this system attached to Energy Cloak....why shouldn't my Stalkers? Anyone who has played an EA Brute and used Enery Cloak knows what I'm talking about when I speak of unsupressed Stealth.
Anyways, that is my latest idea to improve Stalker survivability when teamed and solo. However, I like the aoe placate idea. What if placate also casted a minor tohit debuff as well? In the range of -15 to 20% tohit for 20 seconds? Maybe the actual "placate" effect is left as single target, but the aoe -tohit debuff portion is attached and affects all those around the target (aoe 15 feet)? Just a thought..
I like that idea.
Hopefully, Castle will do something like: slight hp cap increase, partly unsuppressed hide, and a pve-only offensive debuff added to AS.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
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Oh HELL no. I've seen this proposed before, and every time I do it makes me cringe.|
Originally Posted by Thaumator
Make Placate an AoE with a 15 foot radius (same radius as Foot Stomp).
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If we're so worried about our performance on teams, then why ask for a change that would essentially be telling every mob in a 15 foot radius to go attack everyone else on the team?
Proper use of placate in a teaming environment is the difference between a good stalker and a dead teammate. Use placate wrong, and your placated mob goes off and attacks someone else. If you're lucky, it's the brute or one of the Mastermind's minions. If you're not, you've got a dead squishie.
One rogue mob that you placated and couldn't kill in a battle is easily manageable. Every mob in a fifteen foot radius going rogue when your team thought they were aggroed to you is just asking for stalkers to become a solo archetype.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
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AMEN! I'd take this over extra hitpoints for survivability any day.
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Originally Posted by DarkMaster
I mean....my Brute, of all things...has this system attached to Energy Cloak....why shouldn't my Stalkers? Anyone who has played an EA Brute and used Enery Cloak knows what I'm talking about when I speak of unsupressed Stealth.
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The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
Remove sharks >.<
Fed up of RV a.k.a Sea world.
Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.
If you want an AoE Placate, play /Ninjitsu and take Smoke Flash. 
That partial stealth sounds great to me, as well as the increase to Build-up mentioned previously. And the critical radius, too.
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Except Smoke Flash doesn't unsupress hide, isn't autohit, and isn't available to every powerset. Its recharge also prohibits using it every spawn.|
Originally Posted by Symar
If you want an AoE Placate, play /Ninjitsu and take Smoke Flash.
That partial stealth sounds great to me, as well as the increase to Build-up mentioned previously. And the critical radius, too. |
A ninjitsu stalker who uses smoke flash in a mission puts the team at just as much risk as an aoe placate, but can be asked to not use the power without sacrificing the ability for a criticle. Placate in its current stake can dramatically improve a teaming stalker's damage output if used correctly. Making it aoe removes the ability to use it correctly.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
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Originally Posted by DarkMaster
What if Hide was a two part system? In otherwords, what if there was a portion of Hide's +Stealth that never suppresses? You can find a power similar to this in Brute: Energy Aura: Energy Cloak.
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Sounds ideal to me. It's not enough to make them popular on teams, but it adds a buff to the stalkery part of stalkers. It adds a buff that helps differentiate the AT by playstyle modification, rather than a buff that mirrors something someone else does...
I really hope this gets a serious look
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
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LOL oh my god! I help level my brother's lvl 50 Claw/Will a year ago and I didn't even know Claw's Build Up recharge quicker. This is too funny. I thought all build ups are 90s. |
Originally Posted by DarkMaster
I also proposed that Build Up's refresh time be reduced to 72 seconds, just like Claws's Build Up. This would help it to be up more often, which makes it more useable for our "burst damage" style of play. However, Claws users didn't like that idea too much, even though I suggested their build up be reduced to 60 seconds. |
Anyway, somebody suggested that it is better for Stalker to have 45s recharge Build Up with 5s duration than having 90s recharge because Stalker needs to have access to Build Up faster to fit their style better. I think 5s duration is a bit too short though.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Let me know if this scenario sounds familiar to you...|
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Oh HELL no. I've seen this proposed before, and every time I do it makes me cringe.
If we're so worried about our performance on teams, then why ask for a change that would essentially be telling every mob in a 15 foot radius to go attack everyone else on the team? |
1. stalker runs into middle of mob group and assassinates the lieutenant
2. stalker just aggro'd the remaining 12+ mobs within 15 feet of him, and dies within 3 seconds because he can only placate 1 of them
3. stalker asks team for a rez
An AoE placate in this scenario would put the aggro back on the Tanker/Brute/MM where it belongs, not on the "melee" guy with crap for hit points.
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That scenario does ring true for those who don't know when to AS. AS could happen just after someone else enters the group, not before.|
Originally Posted by Thaumator
Let me know if this scenario sounds familiar to you...
1. stalker runs into middle of mob group and assassinates the lieutenant 2. stalker just aggro'd the remaining 12+ mobs within 15 feet of him, and dies within 3 seconds because he can only placate 1 of them 3. stalker asks team for a rez An AoE placate in this scenario would put the aggro back on the Tanker/Brute/MM where it belongs, not on the "melee" guy with crap for hit points. |
Perhaps if by having a stalker in the team, the team could gain some stealth. Think of it like the stalker showing the team how to be quieter and less obvious. The knock on effect is that there is less chance of ambush. Scenarios where people fight in one group accidentally pull another from being slightly in perception range of the other do happen. So a Stalker could provide a stealth buff to the team but I wouldn't have the buffs stack between stalkers.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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If you're aggroing 12+ mobs when you AS a lt then you're running in to AS before the brute, tanker or MM (hereafter referred to as the "heavy"). If you're doing that, then you're doing it wrong, my friend. Running in first is just fine, but the proper time for an AS is NOT before the heavy grabs the aggro.|
Originally Posted by Thaumator
Let me know if this scenario sounds familiar to you...
1. stalker runs into middle of mob group and assassinates the lieutenant 2. stalker just aggro'd the remaining 12+ mobs within 15 feet of him, and dies within 3 seconds because he can only placate 1 of them 3. stalker asks team for a rez An AoE placate in this scenario would put the aggro back on the Tanker/Brute/MM where it belongs, not on the "melee" guy with crap for hit points. |
One of two things you can do:
1) If you open with your Tier 8/9 on a lt, you're then free to turn your attention to the boss - who should already be aggro'd onto the heavy - and placate/BU/AS for your second critical.
2) If you want to open with AS, then learn to time it so that the AS lands just after the heavy gets the aggro.
Note that in both of these situations the heavy already has the aggro, and the argument could be made that an AoE placate would do nothing that the heavy's taunt and punchvoke can't handle, but then you're limited to using placate only in situations where you're fighting next to the heavy.
Here, let me throw a circumstance right back into your court:
1) Squishie calls for help, and you notice a lieutenant is knocking him/her around.
2) You turn your back on the guy you're fighting and run over to kill the lt.
3) Placate is charged, so the most efficient way is to placate the offending lt and pwn him with a critical on your attack of choice, doing enough damage to - if not kill him outright - make him angry enough at you to save your teammate.
If placate were AoE, then your teammate would have had to suddenly deal with TWO lieutenants instead of one.
Placate as it is can be used in a wide variety of circumstances over the course of a single battle (provided it's charged, of course). You don't have to limit its use to AS's follow-up. You can control your burst damage, so why waste all the controlled burst opportunities during the alpha? If you're only placating one guy, you're more than capable of mitigating the loss of aggro immediately, provided you don't try to AS him, and you're free to use it whenever you see the best opportunity.
An AoE placate would be very limited in its uses.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
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Just saw this - so you're proposing a change to an entire archetype just to accommodate a situation that is only sought after by a tiny slice of the playing population?|
Originally Posted by Beelzy
You misread my intent. The idea of -regen is for a single situation, and that is for soloing AVs. It shouldn't be useful on a team or in any other situation, otherwise it would require a counterbalance, weakening Stalkers. But for this one situation, it would be very helpful.
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Just buy an envenomed dagger recipe and have done with it.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
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You must have me confused with someone that doesn't know how to play. Just because I'm referencing a scenario I've seen time and time again does not mean I was the one doing it |
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
If you're aggroing 12+ mobs when you AS a lt then you're running in to AS before the brute, tanker or MM (hereafter referred to as the "heavy"). If you're doing that, then you're doing it wrong, my friend. Running in first is just fine, but the proper time for an AS is NOT before the heavy grabs the aggro.
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Here, let me throw a circumstance right back into your court:
1) Squishie calls for help, and you notice a lieutenant is knocking him/her around. 2) You turn your back on the guy you're fighting and run over to kill the lt. |
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
If placate were AoE, then your teammate would have had to suddenly deal with TWO lieutenants instead of one.
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
An AoE placate would be very limited in its uses.
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Originally Posted by Thaumator
For you, perhaps. When you assassinate someone for 1500+ damage, you've just painted a great big bullseye on your forehead. I don't care who's tanking, the mobs do notice that. I can see many benefits to changing Placate from single target to AoE... both on teams AND solo.
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I am doubtful looking at how threat is calculated that a stalker could strip mobs from a tanker who has mobs taunted. I suggest that perhaps the mobs were missed between slow rates of ticks, momentarily aura taunted by some aura like RTTC which doesn't last for long or not taunted at all. Taunt duration remaining is such a huge factor in the calculation taunt may as well be binary with some players. Type of tank, type of enemy, tankers playstyle, stalkers timing are all key factors but ya just aint guaranteed to steal of every tanker all of the time I reckon.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Had a longer post but browser ate it.|
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
If you're aggroing 12+ mobs when you AS a lt then you're running in to AS before the brute, tanker or MM (hereafter referred to as the "heavy"). If you're doing that, then you're doing it wrong, my friend. Running in first is just fine, but the proper time for an AS is NOT before the heavy grabs the aggro.
One of two things you can do: 1) If you open with your Tier 8/9 on a lt, you're then free to turn your attention to the boss - who should already be aggro'd onto the heavy - and placate/BU/AS for your second critical. 2) If you want to open with AS, then learn to time it so that the AS lands just after the heavy gets the aggro. Note that in both of these situations the heavy already has the aggro, and the argument could be made that an AoE placate would do nothing that the heavy's taunt and punchvoke can't handle, but then you're limited to using placate only in situations where you're fighting next to the heavy. |
Anyway, I think the basic premise of what I was going to say is; Placate doesn't reset aggro of the mob. It resets *your* aggro on the mob.
On team, the only time dropping aggro from multiple targets would be an issue is on a team that wants you to share aggro or tank. This is a possible situation for smaller teams made up of Blasters, Defenders/Corruptors or squishy Scrappers, but in most instances, no one expects it. Kind of like no one expects a Blaster to.
If Placate were to drop aggro from multiple targets on a team, if the target even is aggroing you, will simply go to whoever is next on its list.
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Here, let me throw a circumstance right back into your court: 1) Squishie calls for help, and you notice a lieutenant is knocking him/her around. 2) You turn your back on the guy you're fighting and run over to kill the lt. 3) Placate is charged, so the most efficient way is to placate the offending lt and pwn him with a critical on your attack of choice, doing enough damage to - if not kill him outright - make him angry enough at you to save your teammate. If placate were AoE, then your teammate would have had to suddenly deal with TWO lieutenants instead of one. |
The solution I'd aim for (with or without an AoE placate) is use placate on a target not engaged with you, then kill *your* target first. Ever hear those directions on the plane about securing your breathing mask first before your child? I'd imagine its so you don't end up dead/injured with a child that's left to fend for themselves/stuck helping *you* stay alive (if they can even do that). If the situations dire, kill your target first. If it's not dire, you don't really need to use placate anyway...
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Placate as it is can be used in a wide variety of circumstances over the course of a single battle (provided it's charged, of course). You don't have to limit its use to AS's follow-up. You can control your burst damage, so why waste all the controlled burst opportunities during the alpha? If you're only placating one guy, you're more than capable of mitigating the loss of aggro immediately, provided you don't try to AS him, and you're free to use it whenever you see the best opportunity. An AoE placate would be very limited in its uses. |
Dream Addition: 'Switches' which would change tactics depending on which you want to use. You can't switch on the fly, but only from 'True Hide' (i.e. after 8sec for it to unsuppress) and after the 'Switch' option recharges (which would be like Dual Pistol's swap ammo option but turning on one toggle 'activates' the others which take 30sec to recharge...oh, and they're inherent).
Saboteur = Slightly lowers critical damage (from 2x dmg to 1.75x dmg) but doubles the debuff and adds duration on a critical hit (so 2x the debuff and 150% the duration). Also replaces Demoralize with Sabotage which is a set specific debuff (mass -recover on Elec melee, -dmg on Kinetic Melee, *etc*...) which stacks with itself and other Stalkers. Also alters Placate into a Placate+AoE 'something' (maybe a debuff, a confuse or maybe just AoE placate...dunno)
Assassin = Increases critical damage (from 2x dmg to 2.25x dmg) and alters Placate to recharge much faster and turn it to an effect-less power (doesn't placate anything) but puts you in crit mode. You're basically clicking placate to focus your crit damage and not for personal protection (of course no ones opposed to a faster activating Placate
). It's all about damage. This mode also disables Demoralize.Stalker (no switch) = Same as now but adding a boost to BU depending on team size. Call it an 'Ambush' bonus that add a +% to base damage to your next attack.
Saboteur is the utility melee support mode. Assassin is the burst damage but weakened self/teamed mitigation. Stalker would be a mix of the two, a middle ground.
Sounds more like an EAT tho, but would still fit within their style, only veering slightly.
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Not intending to imply that at all. That's why I said If you are doing that. Sorry for any misunderstanding.|
Originally Posted by Thaumator
You must have me confused with someone that doesn't know how to play. Just because I'm referencing a scenario I've seen time and time again does not mean I was the one doing it
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| Did you just turn your back on someone you were fighting ie aggro'd? AND they're still alive? |
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| Not true. If they were placated, you would get to critical one of them and quickly remove that threat without getting squished yourself. |
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| For you, perhaps. When you assassinate someone for 1500+ damage, you've just painted a great big bullseye on your forehead. I don't care who's tanking, the mobs do notice that. I can see many benefits to changing Placate from single target to AoE... both on teams AND solo. |
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
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Maybe on higher population servers like Freedom or Virtue all teams are full teams of eight with every role covered, but for the rest of us there's more often than not no guarantee that there will be someone to tank. Not saying every team on other servers is a small team, mind - just that teams asking you to share aggro are more common than you appear to be implying.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Had a longer post but browser ate it.
Anyway, I think the basic premise of what I was going to say is; Placate doesn't reset aggro of the mob. It resets *your* aggro on the mob. On team, the only time dropping aggro from multiple targets would be an issue is on a team that wants you to share aggro or tank. This is a possible situation for smaller teams made up of Blasters, Defenders/Corruptors or squishy Scrappers, but in most instances, no one expects it. Kind of like no one expects a Blaster to. If Placate were to drop aggro from multiple targets on a team, if the target even is aggroing you, will simply go to whoever is next on its list. |
And I wasn't saying that placate would reset aggro on everyone, I said exactly what you just said - namely, that it resets mobs aggroed to you (Should have been quite clear from the context, specifically where I talked about placating mobs already aggro'd to someone else). If you're in a situation where you do have to share aggro - and this is a bit more common than you're implying - then you've got more than one mob aggroed to you. Being able to selectively placate is very important in this situation, because there's more to the aggro list than damage. Mobs seem to have a special hatred for buffers and debuffers, and an AoE placate is removing your control over the situation by de-aggroing mobs you may not know are aggroed to you.
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| Your solution doesn't match up with your argument. If the offending lt is the one after the squishy and you placate it, what's stopping you from doing the same with the AoE placate? I mean, if you have to 'run over' to it, the one you're fighting probably isn't in range of it. That is, if placate were AoE, I'd probably say the max you'd expect it to be is 15ft radius... |
And in any case the point is that an aoe placate removes control you would otherwise have had.
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| The solution I'd aim for (with or without an AoE placate) is use placate on a target not engaged with you, then kill *your* target first. Ever hear those directions on the plane about securing your breathing mask first before your child? I'd imagine its so you don't end up dead/injured with a child that's left to fend for themselves/stuck helping *you* stay alive (if they can even do that). If the situations dire, kill your target first. If it's not dire, you don't really need to use placate anyway... |
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Dream Addition: 'Switches' which would change tactics depending on which you want to use. You can't switch on the fly, but only from 'True Hide' (i.e. after 8sec for it to unsuppress) and after the 'Switch' option recharges (which would be like Dual Pistol's swap ammo option but turning on one toggle 'activates' the others which take 30sec to recharge...oh, and they're inherent). Saboteur = Slightly lowers critical damage (from 2x dmg to 1.75x dmg) but doubles the debuff and adds duration on a critical hit (so 2x the debuff and 150% the duration). Also replaces Demoralize with Sabotage which is a set specific debuff (mass -recover on Elec melee, -dmg on Kinetic Melee, *etc*...) which stacks with itself and other Stalkers. Also alters Placate into a Placate+AoE 'something' (maybe a debuff, a confuse or maybe just AoE placate...dunno) Assassin = Increases critical damage (from 2x dmg to 2.25x dmg) and alters Placate to recharge much faster and turn it to an effect-less power (doesn't placate anything) but puts you in crit mode. You're basically clicking placate to focus your crit damage and not for personal protection (of course no ones opposed to a faster activating Placate ). It's all about damage. This mode also disables Demoralize.Stalker (no switch) = Same as now but adding a boost to BU depending on team size. Call it an 'Ambush' bonus that add a +% to base damage to your next attack. Saboteur is the utility melee support mode. Assassin is the burst damage but weakened self/teamed mitigation. Stalker would be a mix of the two, a middle ground. Sounds more like an EAT tho, but would still fit within their style, only veering slightly. |
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
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Also Superior Invisibility, which also has a -threat component. You can literally kill a mob right next to another mob without that mob noticing... It is insane that SI is so much better than Hide...
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Originally Posted by DarkMaster
So I've been fiddling around with my Stalker and EA Brute today...and it got me to thinking of another way we could add a small 'buff' to Stalkers, in the form of "survivability".
What if Hide was a two part system? In otherwords, what if there was a portion of Hide's +Stealth that never suppresses? You can find a power similar to this in Brute: Energy Aura: Energy Cloak. |
Yeah, I've always thought Stalker's stealth should be more like stealth in Energy Aura and Dark Armor on Brute. It's a bummer that Stalker gets seen as soon as Hidden is gone. I guess they don't want Stalker to eliminate from group to group.. wait, Stalker has limited AoE so at the rate it's going, Brute may eliminate groups faster. :P
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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Exactly.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
Yeah, I've always thought Stalker's stealth should be more like stealth in Energy Aura and Dark Armor on Brute. It's a bummer that Stalker gets seen as soon as Hidden is gone. I guess they don't want Stalker to eliminate from group to group.. wait, Stalker has limited AoE so at the rate it's going, Brute may eliminate groups faster. :P
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I dunno, it's just sorta sad that my EA Brute with EC+SS+StealthIO feels more Stalkerish than my Stalker when it comes to being stealthed lol
For an idea and example of exactly how the two part stealth system for a "Stalker" would work, all you need is an EA Brute with EC+SS+StealthIO. With those three combined, you are completely invisible to most mobs, which means that you can run right up next to them, stand there, do a dance, and they'll never notice (I think EC+StealthIO is enough too). Now, to experience "2-part-stealth" take your Brute, stand in front of a target, and smash him in the face
Your SS and/or StealthIO will supress their stealth components at that time, leaving you with "just" the lesser stealth component of Energy Cloak, which isn't a very powerful stealth component btw. Ta-da! Two part stealth! Something that I believe would be perrrrrfect for a Stalker and our playstyle. I mean...we are still suppose to be "the masters of stealth" and "stealthy assassins" right? So why is it we can't retain some of that "stealth" ability...even after we attack? Why are we then so inept that we are in blatant view of all after just one attack? That doesn't sound very "master of shadows" or "ninja" to me lol...Btw, EC basically lets you get "near" mobs but isn't full stealth, get too close and they see you. The advantage to it is, it doesn't supress, even when attacking, which means that neighboring spawns will almost never notice you, and even mobs within the same spawn many times won't notice if they aren't right next to eachother. To me...this has STALKER written ALL over it...so it puzzles me as to why Stalkers don't have a system like this in place, for Hide. It would help us keep too much aggro off of our backs when teaming as well. I think survivability would go way up for any Stalker, +def or +res based, with no bias to any.
Also, for the aoe placate idea, yea I can see the problem with a full aoe placate effect. But, what if the placate affect itself was just single target, but there was an "aoe" to-hit-debuff attached to it? So all targets around the placated target would lose some tohit. In RP: you placated their teammate and cause a little confusion amongst the combatants as he is no longer able to see you, his allies still see you, but are having a harder time trying to hit you. (AoE -15% tohit for 20 seconds, non-enhanceable). Just a thought and a different approach for an aoe placate idea.
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Well the concept of sharing aggro is mainly just 'fend for yourself'. That is, whatever you're fighting, you're aggroing too. Unless you're literally tanking for a team, dropping aggro from a group really isn't so big an issue unless we're talking duo teams. Unless we're talking about a defensless defender, I just don't see it being an issue. If Blasters could drop aggro from multi-targets, I doubt it'd be a big deal except that they'd be so much more safer.|
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Maybe on higher population servers like Freedom or Virtue all teams are full teams of eight with every role covered, but for the rest of us there's more often than not no guarantee that there will be someone to tank. Not saying every team on other servers is a small team, mind - just that teams asking you to share aggro are more common than you appear to be implying.
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Let's not get TOO specific. When I said "run over" it could just as easily have meant turning around. And the problem isn't the offending lt after the squishy. The problem is the lt you were formerly fighting. With a single target placate you can placate the lt attacking the squishy and still have the other lt's aggro on you. With an aoe placate they would both de-aggro from you and latch onto the squishy. And in any case the point is that an aoe placate removes control you would otherwise have had. |
If the enemies are an actual threat, just placate and hit the lt you were dealing with to defeat him quickly. Then aid your teammate. This is all ignoring any type of tricks you're capable of however. Simply using an AoE attack after placating both, knocking one back/up/down, stunning one, or fearing one (that goes through every primary) is actually the easiest solution of all. Then proceed to placate whichever you want and finish the job quickly.
Done and done.
I'd like to echo the request for an unsuppressed portion of stealth in hide. That is extremely thematic, and would considerably boost stalker survivability. Considering it'd be less likely to be attacked, it may even boost damage, as hide and placate would be more reliable.
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Not true. The argument that "whatever you're fighting you're aggroing too" assumes that aggro is a 1:1 ratio. It isn't that simple, and damaging attacks aren't the aggro trump card. According to Castle (info courtesy of paragonwiki), the threat equation runs thusly:|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Well the concept of sharing aggro is mainly just 'fend for yourself'. That is, whatever you're fighting, you're aggroing too. Unless you're literally tanking for a team, dropping aggro from a group really isn't so big an issue unless we're talking duo teams. Unless we're talking about a defensless defender, I just don't see it being an issue. If Blasters could drop aggro from multi-targets, I doubt it'd be a big deal except that they'd be so much more safer.
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Threat = Damage * Debuff Mod * AT Mod * AI Mod * Range Mod * (TauntDurationRemaining * 1,000)
Damage is only the first component in the equation, and while it would be downright silly to try and predict who's going to get what aggro, it's not insignificant that Debuff mod is in there as a separate factor.
Why? Because it means that a defender, corruptor or controller who can toss out an aoe debuff WILL attract aggro even if that debuff isn't damaging the spawn. In the quote above you seem to say that - in the absence of a taunt effect - mobs will simply engage whoever attacks them. A melee type will generally have a better chance at attracting that aggro due to higher damage, a shorter range mod and a higher archetype mod, but suddenly dropping that aggro doesn't mean they're going to jump to whomever is in the closest range doing the most damage. They're going to go after whatever is affecting them at that time, and nine times out of ten it will be a debuff from one of your squishier teammates.
In other words, another archetype doing damage to nearby mobs isn't enough in and of itself to pull that aggro without some kind of lingering taunt effect, and even a stray aoe from another melee type might not be enough if the debuff is strong enough and affected the mobs first.
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