If You Were Castle How would you change Stalkers?
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Clarification: "Whatever you're fighting you're aggroing" is a simplified definition of the 'shared aggro tactic'. On a team that is relying on shared aggro, your share is to divert the attention of a portion of the enemy away from other teammembers. Nothing to do with aggro or threat ratios. It's simply your goal to soak up your share of attention. Pulling out the threat equation is delving *far* too deep into the discussion considering damage (without taunt) will pull aggro easier than debuff powers (without taunt). But if the point of bringing it up is to debate that using an attack isn't enough to turn that Lt away from the squishy, that is what mitigation powers are for. Even when placated, these powers still nullify the target.
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Not true. The argument that "whatever you're fighting you're aggroing too" assumes that aggro is a 1:1 ratio. It isn't that simple, and damaging attacks aren't the aggro trump card.
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And if you're responsibility in a shared aggro tactic is to soak up your share of the aggro, an AoE placate sort of works counter to that philosophy, don't you think? If you're placating every mob that's aggroed to you in order to get a guaranteed critical on a single mob, then aren't you acting irresponsibly?|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Clarification: "Whatever you're fighting you're aggroing" is a simplified definition of the 'shared aggro tactic'. On a team that is relying on shared aggro, your share is to divert the attention of a portion of the enemy away from other teammembers. Nothing to do with aggro or threat ratios. It's simply your goal to soak up your share of attention. Pulling out the threat equation is delving *far* too deep into the discussion considering damage (without taunt) will pull aggro easier than debuff powers (without taunt). But if the point of bringing it up is to debate that using an attack isn't enough to turn that Lt away from the squishy, that is what mitigation powers are for. Even when placated, these powers still nullify the target.
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And yes, the argument could be made that an aoe placate could be followed up with an aoe attack, but (1)not every stalker primary set has AoE capability, while an AoE placate would affect every set, and (2) let's remember why this was first asked for in this thread:
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Originally Posted by Thaumator
It would drastically improve survivability on teams.
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Let me know if this scenario sounds familiar to you... 1. stalker runs into middle of mob group and assassinates the lieutenant 2. stalker just aggro'd the remaining 12+ mobs within 15 feet of him, and dies within 3 seconds because he can only placate 1 of them 3. stalker asks team for a rez An AoE placate in this scenario would put the aggro back on the Tanker/Brute/MM where it belongs, not on the "melee" guy with crap for hit points. |
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
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You're really missing the point. Stalkers are about controlled damage. The ability to control your burst damage is what makes a stalker unique, but that ability goes hand in hand with being able to control your battles.|
Originally Posted by Doom_Saint
I agree, stalkers would benefit greatly from an aoe placate, but in defense, I think that anyone who can't handle ONE lieutenant on their own should re-evaluate their gaming abilities.
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An AoE placate removes that control from one of your most essential tools, turning an artfully wielded scalpel into a ten pound sledge hammer.
And the entire concept of not being able to survive the alpha after an AS on a team without it dismisses the entire concept of a secondary. Remember, this power is in the primary sets. It can be used for mitigation - but its primary use is to enable you to get another critical on a target of your choosing. Making it aoe doesn't improve its offensive capabilities one bit, unless you're counting the ability for some sets to suddenly have a fifty percent chance to critical on multiple targets a good improvement. Since it comes at the expense of potentially losing their aggro to a failed accuracy check on the part of your aoe attack, I don't.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
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Lol, look where we're back to...|
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
And if you're responsibility in a shared aggro tactic is to soak up your share of the aggro, an AoE placate sort of works counter to that philosophy, don't you think? If you're placating every mob that's aggroed to you in order to get a guaranteed critical on a single mob, then aren't you acting irresponsibly?
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Yeah, looking back at the 1st post I started talking about an AoE placate: "On team, the only time dropping aggro from multiple targets would be an issue is on a team that wants you to share aggro or tank."
But in the general sense, Stalkers just aren't good at sharing aggro to begin with. That was the main point I was trying to make with an AoE placate. It'd have its downfalls but not many more than a ST placate (the only real one being the above stated).
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And yes, the argument could be made that an aoe placate could be followed up with an aoe attack, but (1)not every stalker primary set has AoE capability, while an AoE placate would affect every set, and (2) let's remember why this was first asked for in this thread: So - in an ongoing discussion across several threads over stalkers' performance on teams and desirability for teams - what's being ostensibly asked for is the ability to save your own skin at the expense of your team's. |
The main point I want to make about Stalkers and aggro is, outside of specific powers like Cloak of Fear or Provoke (I guess a good deal of AoE dmg too), a Stalker isn't going to attract the attention of a lot of enemies outside of an alpha strike (or solo). Although, personally, I don't have issues with my Stalkers taking alphas for teams, if others have issues doing so (emphasis = *if*) then I could see an AoE placate being helpful for some team situations.
Solo, however, is another matter. An AoE "leave me alone for 20sec" is powerful.
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I don't see it.|
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
You're really missing the point. Stalkers are about controlled damage. The ability to control your burst damage is what makes a stalker unique, but that ability goes hand in hand with being able to control your battles.
An AoE placate removes that control from one of your most essential tools, turning an artfully wielded scalpel into a ten pound sledge hammer. |
An AoE placate is still an artfully wielded scalpel, it just has a wider range. In any situation you could use a ST placate, you can use a targeted AoE one. For what a Stalker wants to do (eliminate unsuspecting targets with high bursts of damage), that placate suddenly perplexes foes near the initial target doesn't somehow make the power clunky. For what you need to do, you don't need aggro to do it so having less aggro doesn't make it any less of a power.
It's only when you're trying to garner hate (not what the AT is for) does placate *at all* *AoE or ST* turn into a cludge tool for extra damage.
I think it's nearly unanimous that where stalkers are lacking is contributing to large teams. They have burst damage (but not great sustained damage) and they have low AoE. They can't tank (reletively speaking) and they don't have controls, buff, or debuffs.
That said, what conceptually they should is massive single target damage. So how do we make that into something that has them contribute to teams without destabilising everything else. They tried adding more criticals on a team, but I think that fall short. My proposal is simple. Go all the way with that concept. 100% critical out of hide... AND attacking doesn't break hide. Being the target of an attack breaks hide, but if you don't pick up any agro, you continue to string criticals non-stop. Placate is a power you use to shed agro and begin to crit again. Solo play would be essentually the same as now, but team play would be more about staying in a hidden state so you can maximize your damage output. At most you'd double your damage output from the current state... which in comparison with having AoEs vs Single Target I don't think the increase in damage would be too great. If it is, then keep this same mechanic and tweak down the critical damage amount of the powers (80% crit damage instead of 100 for example).
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
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And if a stalker's not going to keep that much aggro to begin with then what's the point of having placate be AoE? The original reason stated was survival, and I'm not seeing that as a problem. The downsides, regardless of how much they can be downplayed, still outweigh the small benefit you do gain.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
But in the general sense, Stalkers just aren't good at sharing aggro to begin with. That was the main point I was trying to make with an AoE placate. It'd have its downfalls but not many more than a ST placate (the only real one being the above stated).
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Originally Posted by Leo_G
I don't see it.
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| An AoE placate is still an artfully wielded scalpel, it just has a wider range. In any situation you could use a ST placate, you can use a targeted AoE one. |
And a scalpel cuts nothing but what it is intended to cut. So yeah, placate as an aoe does in fact mean it's no longer being wielded as a scalpel.
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| For what a Stalker wants to do (eliminate unsuspecting targets with high bursts of damage), that placate suddenly perplexes foes near the initial target doesn't somehow make the power clunky. For what you need to do, you don't need aggro to do it so having less aggro doesn't make it any less of a power. |
And making it AoE doesn't really do anything to improve the power that much. I don't need to have every foe within a certain radius to be placated after the alpha - I have a whole secondary to mitigate that.
Never mind the fact that any hate you generate by assassin striking a boss or lt will land anyway because they will have been activated before you can get the placate off.
So the improvement would be minimal, and would come at the expense of creating more potential chaos for teamed stalkers and quite probably making them LESS desirable for teams that want everyone to take their share of the aggro.
Adding an autohit AoE aggro mitigator to a single target damage specialist would guarantee that everyone else on the team is going to take more aggro with a stalker on the team than without.
I guess that's my main problem with it: it's a largely unnecessary change with a small impact on survival that also carries risk for your teammates.
EDIT - and yes, I'll certainly concede that an AoE placate would be very powerful for solo stalkers. But then stalkers really don't need any help soloing.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
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So being targeted for attack breaks hide, vise getting hit, and attacking doesn't break hide at all....|
Originally Posted by Shred_Monkey
I think it's nearly unanimous that where stalkers are lacking is contributing to large teams. They have burst damage (but not great sustained damage) and they have low AoE. They can't tank (reletively speaking) and they don't have controls, buff, or debuffs.
That said, what conceptually they should is massive single target damage. So how do we make that into something that has them contribute to teams without destabilising everything else. They tried adding more criticals on a team, but I think that fall short. My proposal is simple. Go all the way with that concept. 100% critical out of hide... AND attacking doesn't break hide. Being the target of an attack breaks hide, but if you don't pick up any agro, you continue to string criticals non-stop. Placate is a power you use to shed agro and begin to crit again. Solo play would be essentually the same as now, but team play would be more about staying in a hidden state so you can maximize your damage output. At most you'd double your damage output from the current state... which in comparison with having AoEs vs Single Target I don't think the increase in damage would be too great. If it is, then keep this same mechanic and tweak down the critical damage amount of the powers (80% crit damage instead of 100 for example). |
...I like it, so far, but I'm gonna have to chew the cud on this one a bit before forming an opinion one way or the other.
Hide being up while you have no aggro means that on teams with heavy aggro management you would be sawing through minions like a chain saw. Yeah, I can see how reducing the crit damage might be necessary.
On the other hand, other limiting qualifiers might work just as well. For example, an attack could be required to hit its target for it not to break hide, meaning that if you miss, you're exposed.
I can see this completely changing the way stalkers play on teams. Instead of running in to take out the boss, a stalker might be better served to chew through the outskirts of a mob first. That could be ....interesting in the best of ways. (Council Adjutant: Hey Joe, what happened to Tom? He was there a minute ago. Joe? JOE?!)
One thing, though: how would stacking stealth work with this? If I combine a Stealth IO , Stealth from the Concealment Pool, and Super Speed, am I increasing my damage potential in game-breaking ways?
You know what, I like this. It's simple, it's tactical, it doesn't give a blanket damage buff or random bursts of dps, and it's thematic. It would need some careful balancing, but what suggestion wouldn't?
Okay, I'm sold!
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
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And the intended thing placate is meant to cut is aggro. So long as it remains auto-hit, it would be as precise in its use as ever.|
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
It's a pretty obvious point to make that an AoE power can affect a single target just as effectively as a Single Target power can affect the same target. So what? No one is saying that making Placate AoE will diminish its effectiveness on a single target. Not sure where you got that notion.
And a scalpel cuts nothing but what it is intended to cut. So yeah, placate as an aoe does in fact mean it's no longer being wielded as a scalpel. |
Again, what *I'm* saying is an AoE placate wouldn't make a Stalker any less popular on a team than it is now. No one invites one to a team to share aggro, and most seasoned players realize that when they are getting a Stalker, it's an AT not good at garnering hate, sometimes even dropping it completely. Really knowledgeable players will realize they work *best* under these circumstances and will facilitate that.
It's not counter-productive to making stalkers appealing to teams, more like non-productive as it really doesn't make them more or less attractive than they are. Why? Because Stalkers already don't get much aggro (most only having aggro of 1-2 targets for extended periods). So being able to drop that aggro wouldn't suddenly thrust the AT's role into counter-team productivity.
Hell, look at some of the people talking about 2-layer Hide with a portion of the stealth radius being unsuppressable. How is *that* not counter-productive in your eyes as it basically cuts your aggro generating abilities right out? The only way you could take an Alpha Strike for your team now is if you used an AoE attack (since Demoralize's effect doesn't draw attention) or using Taunt. And believe me, I've run up to spawns and started firing a stream of ST/AoE dmg on my Claws/EA brute and had the whole spawn but the targets I hit even notice I was there.
By the way, I do like the idea of some unsuppressed Stealth for Stalkers. It's great on my Brute with perhaps the only downfall being solo, he can't keep ally NPCs alive for beans.
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| What I've been saying is that it is counter-productive to the goal of making stalkers more appealing to teams for a stalker to have less aggro at the expense of other teammates. |
The real Real *REEEEAL* issue, though, is how placate functions on small teams where we share aggro. In that situation, even as single target, the effect is a cludge to get extra damage. Either you're flaking off your share of aggro for extra damage or you're using a work-around to escape part of the power's effect.
If we're talking about flowery metaphors for placate, lets not ignore how imperfect it is. You talk about an 'artfully wielded scalpel' and how much control it gives our damage but forget it's cludged into a power that drops aggro onto others. The 'scalpel' part you seem to be talking about is the damage, not the aggro, which I'd agree. If you mean control over aggro, then Placate is a very imperfect and clunky tool for that.
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Well, I'm not. Particularly, because it has been mentioned before that the game cannot distinguish if you're targeted or not. There is no 'you are being targeted' tag so that really just shoots the whole idea in the head.|
Originally Posted by Shred_Monkey
I think it's nearly unanimous that where stalkers are lacking is contributing to large teams. They have burst damage (but not great sustained damage) and they have low AoE. They can't tank (reletively speaking) and they don't have controls, buff, or debuffs.
That said, what conceptually they should is massive single target damage. So how do we make that into something that has them contribute to teams without destabilising everything else. They tried adding more criticals on a team, but I think that fall short. My proposal is simple. Go all the way with that concept. 100% critical out of hide... AND attacking doesn't break hide. Being the target of an attack breaks hide, but if you don't pick up any agro, you continue to string criticals non-stop. Placate is a power you use to shed agro and begin to crit again. Solo play would be essentually the same as now, but team play would be more about staying in a hidden state so you can maximize your damage output. At most you'd double your damage output from the current state... which in comparison with having AoEs vs Single Target I don't think the increase in damage would be too great. If it is, then keep this same mechanic and tweak down the critical damage amount of the powers (80% crit damage instead of 100 for example). |
Seriously, this has been suggested before when people said breaking line of sight should rehide you (that is, an alternate thought for the suggestion was not being the target of the enemy to which someone (might have been a dev, can't remember) said the game couldn't do that).
Besides that, I'd hate how it'd favor certain sets (specifically Ninjutsu). And any request that makes my burst damage less bursty (that is, lowering my crit damage) I'm against. If anything, I want my attacks to crit for *more*.
Oh, and I don't think it'd work like you're imagining, Joe. Once you pop off an attack, the moment you draw the foe's attention, your hide drops. So it wouldn't so much be "Hey Joe, where's Tom? He was here a second ago...Joe?" because the instant you attack Tom, he'd turn to hit you. Even sometimes on 1-hit kills, the foe may try and get a brawl (that does no damage) off before flopping to the ground. Oh, and did we mention how aggro accumulates on teams? If your team is fighting and you happen to be around but doing nothing? Yeah, sometimes mobs will turn and hit the invisible guy. That's why you can't dolly around with your AS on teams.
All these "placate" talks...
I just want to have separate system:
1. One power that allows me delivery Critical
2. One power that allows me to lose aggro(s)
I do not want them to be combined together because sometimes I don't want to keep aggro on me (if I team with squishies and they are dying already) and sometimes I want to lose aggro on me (so I can setup Assassin Strike or run or whatnot).
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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And that's what I'm getting at equating placate as some precise scalpel. As a means to control crits, it is a scalpel. As a means to control aggro, it is not.|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
All these "placate" talks...
I just want to have separate system: 1. One power that allows me delivery Critical 2. One power that allows me to lose aggro(s) I do not want them to be combined together because sometimes I don't want to keep aggro on me (if I team with squishies and they are dying already) and sometimes I want to lose aggro on me (so I can setup Assassin Strike or run or whatnot). |
But this is one point for the role 'Switches' I proposed. As an 'Assassin', placate wouldn't drop aggro or anything and would only enable you to critical strike (as well as making the placate power itself recharge much faster). As a 'Stalker', placate would be the same ST de-aggro/critical strike hybrid for when you need both. As the 'Saboteur', it'd primarily be a debuff tool as it'd have a mild AoE debuff and enable you to use AS which would have another stackable AoE debuff.
I'd enjoy building my stalkers to specialize in certain switches while building other stalkers to capitalize on them all. It's a dream change, yes, but this *is* a kind of dream-thread.
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This, right here, is what I'm on about. I do mean controlling damage. Turning it into an AoE doesn't increase that control. The reason originally stated for the change was survival - or, as you put it, controlling aggro - and you are quite right to say that it is an imperfect and clunky tool for that.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
If we're talking about flowery metaphors for placate, lets not ignore how imperfect it is. You talk about an 'artfully wielded scalpel' and how much control it gives our damage but forget it's cludged into a power that drops aggro onto others. The 'scalpel' part you seem to be talking about is the damage, not the aggro, which I'd agree. If you mean control over aggro, then Placate is a very imperfect and clunky tool for that.
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I'm not forgetting that it's cludged into an aggro-dropping power, I'm pointing that out.
About all the suggestion to make it an AoE power does is increase that kludginess by trying to shoehorn it into a role other than one for which it was best suited.
And I'm FOR the two-layered hide suggestion. Why? Because you're not picking up aggro in the first place. If you pick it up, your teammates could take cue from you and begin targeting their debuffs and blasts through you. Then if you drop it that aggro goes to someone who might not be aware that it's coming their way until too late.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
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I don't think he means being targeted - he means being attacked. Being targeted is different than being attacked. In other words, if they attack and miss, then hide supresses. Since a roll is made to determine whether you're hit or not, that could well be something that can be flagged.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Well, I'm not. Particularly, because it has been mentioned before that the game cannot distinguish if you're targeted or not. There is no 'you are being targeted' tag so that really just shoots the whole idea in the head.
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| Besides that, I'd hate how it'd favor certain sets (specifically Ninjutsu). And any request that makes my burst damage less bursty (that is, lowering my crit damage) I'm against. If anything, I want my attacks to crit for *more*. |
I'd be against that too.
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| Oh, and I don't think it'd work like you're imagining, Joe. Once you pop off an attack, the moment you draw the foe's attention, your hide drops. So it wouldn't so much be "Hey Joe, where's Tom? He was here a second ago...Joe?" because the instant you attack Tom, he'd turn to hit you. Even sometimes on 1-hit kills, the foe may try and get a brawl (that does no damage) off before flopping to the ground. Oh, and did we mention how aggro accumulates on teams? If your team is fighting and you happen to be around but doing nothing? Yeah, sometimes mobs will turn and hit the invisible guy. That's why you can't dolly around with your AS on teams. |
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
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I would give them a lot more freem and a lot less lame, while at the same time increasing their WTFPWN abilities in PVP.
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Originally Posted by EvilRyu
I have several ideas on how to change stalkers in general.
Suggestion 1 is to return all the missing powers from various sets such that stalkers arent penalize for taking hide and assassin strike. Meaning powers like QR, Lucky(scaling resistance/debuff resistance), RttC(without the aggro component), Quills, Lotus Drops, Spin. Many folks would be like what about the aggro? Well we know its possible now for them to make the toggle powers not effect others while hidden, like the stalker version of cloak of fear and oppressive gloom. So that cant be used as a reason not to do this now. The main reason I am wanting most of the aoes to return is because its our greatest weakness when teaming unless your elec then you get the best of both worlds. What we lack is that aoe contribution in a game where AoE is king and single target is lol unless its a hard target like an AV. But at that point sustained damage is going to help you more so than burst damage will. While I know suggestion number 1 is the hardest and most talked about thing to do it might not be able to happen so, here is suggestion number 2. Make stalker single target damage simulate AoE. One is make the damage so high you pretty much 1 shot + 4 luitenents with single target attacks. The only way to make this happen and work well is if they throw out the whole recharge/endurance/damage formula to a point and make some exemptions because thats whats pretty much holding stalkers back right there. Suggestion number 2 might be seem to be overboard so here is another idea. Suggestion 3 revisit the stalker scaling damage with AS but also apply this to all or some of the more heavier hitting attacks. This idea is crucial considering how we got 2 new taskforces. Chances are there will be some extremely beefy targets that need to be taken out and the best way to do it is make stalkers into the single target specialists they were always meant to be. Suggestion 4, while I dont like this as much as the others only because it seems to have the weakest impact on perception but not on actual numbers. Change stalker damage mods such that they along with blasters get the highest numbers for damage buffs. Meaning stalkers and blasters get 130% damage boost for build up, and melee damage boosted to a 1.30 mod. This ensures no one will be out damaging them using the same powerset with the same level of buffage. This will need to be done in conjuction with getting rid of the leash on the current stalker team buff. As it stands currently the buff is counter productive to itself. If you have more range than melee then the stalker doesnt get the buff to benefit the team as much. If you have alot of melee when the stalker does get the buff its kind of pointless because you already have melee damage. So the stalker never really gets to shine because he is over shadowed by his teammates bigger crits, higher damage from fury. I suggest making the range equivalent to the old sidekick range. It keeps stalkers from running off from the team and it works with every possible team composition. Thats pretty much what I would do if I werent afraid to buff stalkers. Keep in mind none of these changes would be effective in pvp in any way shape or form since teaming is the stalkers issue in pve. |
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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Oh, so some means of stopping the foe from firing an attack at you? Well in that case, it'd work like Brute's Fury? Well, AoE attacks would drop you from hide always. Afterall, AoEs are attacks and the game can't distinguish between a ST one and an AoE one which is why we don't have melee resistance and AoE resistance.|
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
I don't think he means being targeted - he means being attacked. Being targeted is different than being attacked. In other words, if they attack and miss, then hide supresses. Since a roll is made to determine whether you're hit or not, that could well be something that can be flagged.
How would it favor ninjitsu? If just being targeted drops hide, then the only factor is stealth. Or do you mean that if targeting can't be a factor then it would default to being hit? I'd be against that too. |
And it'd favor Rogue sets, specifically Ninjutsu (and its toys) and Dark Armor (Feared/stunned foes can't attack). SR would have no means to stop foes from dropping them out of hide and poor Regen wouldn't even be able to get off AS mid combat if an attack will suppress hide 100%.
That said, I'm not saying the idea is *bad*, it's just not well thought out. With other changes, you could make such a suggestion work. But then you have to discuss if it would still feel like a Stalker and if the amount of change alienates current players/playstyles or not.
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This, right here, is what I'm on about. I do mean controlling damage. Turning it into an AoE doesn't increase that control. The reason originally stated for the change was survival - or, as you put it, controlling aggro - and you are quite right to say that it is an imperfect and clunky tool for that. I'm not forgetting that it's cludged into an aggro-dropping power, I'm pointing that out. About all the suggestion to make it an AoE power does is increase that kludginess by trying to shoehorn it into a role other than one for which it was best suited. |
Honestly, Placate's ability to control aggro, in and of itself, lacks the actual 'control' part. The only real way to make it work is if Placate *suspended* aggro for its duration. That is, you use placate on a target(s), and all the threat gained by it(them) is held as a value but rendered inert for the duration of the power along with the ability for them not to be able to attack unless attacked. Once the duration of placate is over, all threat it gained is added to the suspended threat and it resumes its attack.
*That* is controlling aggro. What we do now could hardly be viewed as 'controlled' in any form except for the damage it enables.
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Yes, the point about Ninjitsu is a good one. However, remember that when hide is unsupressed your dark armor toggles are supressed, making you vulnerable once again to aoe attacks, as you earlier pointed out. (another good point)|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
And it'd favor Rogue sets, specifically Ninjutsu (and its toys) and Dark Armor (Feared/stunned foes can't attack). SR would have no means to stop foes from dropping them out of hide and poor Regen wouldn't even be able to get off AS mid combat if an attack will suppress hide 100%.
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Caltrops and blinding powder, on the other hand, would slow down the attacks considerably.
This is part of the reason I wondered if a balancing factor might be that attacks that "hit" wouldn't suppress hide. After all, if you miss, you suppress hide now, so being accurate would be rewarded.
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| That said, I'm not saying the idea is *bad*, it's just not well thought out. With other changes, you could make such a suggestion work. But then you have to discuss if it would still feel like a Stalker and if the amount of change alienates current players/playstyles or not. |
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
If I were castle, I would ignore Stalkers because some ATs are meant to be soloers! (giggles)
Can't perform well on a team? That's not my problem! Stalker is meant to be a soloer.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Minor buff: Tohit bonus in unsupressed hide.
Nothing is more frustrating than whiffing on a target that is totally unaware of your presence.
QR
Change placate to the original version bane spiders got: 20s recharge.
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Yeah, I agree. If they can make it that if you miss Assassin Strike, you won't get revealed, they should do the same for all the attacks as well. If you are hidden, you just shouldn't miss. At least this separates Stalker from Bane. :P
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Originally Posted by Shadestorm
Minor buff: Tohit bonus in unsupressed hide.
Nothing is more frustrating than whiffing on a target that is totally unaware of your presence. |
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Here's an idea, shoot it down if you don't like it, but read through it first.
At level 12 you will unlock two power choices.
The first is similar to placate and retains its name. It has one alteration to its effect, however, it automatically suppresses build up and recharges your build up timer. Meaning that after you hit it you will have another shot at BU+AS every time.
The second is quite different, call it distraction. It has a shorter timer, (30s) and provides a 10s duration targetable pseudo-pet with a strong taunt aura. This will be the more group-friendly aggro management system that allows you to drop aggro from yourself as well as squishies on your team. It does not take you into hide.
You unlock both at 12, but can only choose one.
This gives the option of a more team-friendly stalker while also giving you the choice to retain the burst damage style if you see fit.
I agree, stalkers would benefit greatly from an aoe placate, but in defense, I think that anyone who can't handle ONE lieutenant on their own should re-evaluate their gaming abilities.