Most would become supervillains if given superpowers, study says.


2short2care

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BafflingBeerMan View Post
If you mean no reason to save either, GG is positing that it is moral to save everyone as much as possible. That she would try to do good, no matter what. So here is a situation where the motivation is to save someone, but there are two someones and you can save only one.

If you mean there is no reason to stereotype about motivations or natures, there is, because you need to make a decision to go in direction A or direction B. Now, I don't mean stereotype in a bad way, but in a way where you have to assume something to make that decision. Otherwise, you are running off haphazardly and that is perhaps even more dangerous than thinking about it. Either way, in the real world, you are making a decision based on something more than "Pick a direction."

EDIT: I am also setting up the first step in a slippery slope. If you start to favor one direction over the other, you are being less "moral" and more biased. But that is further down the line.
I mean that if both of them have equal claim, stereotyping, while not a good method, is better than flipping a coin.

Ultimately every action could be interpreted as preventing from being born or causing to be born an infinite number of future beings, with no way to tell which of them are more deserving, yet I do not find it immoral to bias towards whatever future is preferable to me.


A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!

 

Posted

Hehe. Interesting article.

If I ever acquired a decent level of superpowers, while materialism is always fun, and I have no problem with fascism as long as I'd be making the rules, I'd actually set out to make the world a better place. The problem would be those that disagreed with my methods.


Tales of Judgment. Also here, instead of that other place.

good luck D.B.B.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosExMachina View Post
I mean that if both of them have equal claim, stereotyping, while not a good method, is better than flipping a coin.

Ultimately every action could be interpreted as preventing from being born or causing to be born an infinite number of future beings, with no way to tell which of them are more deserving, yet I do not find it immoral to bias towards whatever future is preferable to me.
Which is what we are ultimately saying: we would live by our own moral code. And what one may find morally acceptable (say, defending my home country of Latveria), another may find moral reprehensible (DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!)

They are different strata (floors?) of morality: societal morality, government morality (i.e. laws), and personal morals. They may come into conflict with each other. So if you had superpowers, which one would you abide by the most?


"Ben is short for Frank."
-Baffling Beer-Man, The Tenacious 3: The Movie

[IMG]http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa10/BafflingBeerman/teamjackface1.jpg[/IMG]

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ View Post
I kinda like the anti-hero role >.> sure I'll go beat up the villains in the world, but I'll come back home and give the President a Stone Cold Stunner, drink some beer, flip him off, and drunkenly roll out of the White House and go beat up more bad guys, wash, rinse, repeat
Stop stealing my ideas!


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BafflingBeerMan View Post
Which is what we are ultimately saying: we would live by our own moral code. And what one may find morally acceptable (say, defending my home country of Latveria), another may find moral reprehensible (DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!)

They are different strata (floors?) of morality: societal morality, government morality (i.e. laws), and personal morals. They may come into conflict with each other. So if you had superpowers, which one would you abide by the most?
Universal morality comes before any of them.


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

I'm thinking most people would be neither hero nor villain but would simply seek to profit from their powers without necessarily breaking the law.


"Tell my tale to those who ask. Tell it truly, the ill deeds along with the good and let me be judged accordingly. The rest is silence." -- Dinobot

 

Posted

#1. flawed conclusion...

"power corrupts" but not always! No sir, it never corrupts. If you can remove something from the equation and get the same result then it has nothing to do with the results. Power enhances ones ability to enact their already corrupt ways.

#2. Stupid study. According to most theists if it weren't for a god telling them killing is bad they'd go kill someone, but most theists that become atheists become more moral according to all studies I've seen so...


if we combine the two it's actually inverse. If you gave powers to most people they'd generally be "heroes" but most people would also take advantage of their powers in ways that we would find illegal but not huge crimes... like if a guy had x-ray vision he's likely use his powers for police work, but he'd also use it to look at women through their clothes... Telepathy would likely result in the person helping the police with info, but they'd also likely use it for getting brownie points with people and manipulating them


 

Posted

Oh what the hell I'll help GG out.

Assuming you are a legally authorized hero, like you said you would want to be previously in the thread, you should have the ability to contact police dispatch. Grab a coin designate heads and tails, flip it, then let dispatch know your going after 1, and give them the location of the other while making your way to unlucky winner of the coin flip. Odds are there will be a police car near enough. As soon as you finish dealing with the first 1 then go assist with the other.

The point of the situation described is to make it impossible to do both at the same time. When such a situation exists you do your best and hope for the best. Thats all any reasonable person can ask of you.

By the way a slippery slope arguement assumes that the slippery slope exists. You just want GG to fall of her Moral Mountain. She is not going to do that. She'll simply refuse to acknowledge your arguement. Also your arguement assumes a perfect situation in an imperfect world. In no real situation are you going to be exactly equadistant to two seperate crimes, occuring at the same rate at the same time. The variables involved are just too unpredictable. I'm not saying that difficult decisions don't exist. They do.

Also on the arguement of Morality versus Selfishness being the natural thing your both going to the extremes. It is natural to be a morally good person because your success in life depends on others opinion of you. Therefore being a morally good person is inherently partially selfish. Its why you don't see the guy who stole from his previous employer getting hired for most positions. I said partially because a morally good person might throw themselves into danger to save a child from an oncoming vehicle or some other good action that is done with little or no time to think about the consequences.

Oh and because its funny.


Work in progress no more. I have decided that I'm going to put my worst spelling errors here. Triage Bacon, Had this baster idea, TLR

"I'm going to beat the Jesus out of Satan!" My Wife while playing Dante's Inferno

 

Posted

Superheroes have always seemed reactionary to me. Only some of the superheroes' alter egos actually acted first towards some goal. It is always save the planet from this threat or save citizen from this mugger and not solve some of the world problems by figuring out how they generate so much energy. For example, analyzing Superman for a few years could give humanity a starship since he is almost invulnerable, can move faster than light depending on which Superman, and has an amazing efficient solar energy system.

Something to consider is how does Superpowers affect people based on location and circumstance. Would a starving child in a war-torn country of Africa be more likely to try to help his people or would he ditch them and head to somewhere where he can obtain fame and fortune.


The first step in being sane is to admit that you are insane.

 

Posted

The problem with the coin flip solution, to me, is that it robs the problem of any morality, good or bad. You aren't deciding anything, you are letting "fate" do it. You aren't thinking at all, right or wrong. Is Two-Face more moral than Batman's other villains because he let's a coin decide whether or not to rob a bank?

I believe, in real life, one will reach an equilibrium (as Crim says): when faced with the difficult decisions, one will try for the best outcome, not necessarily the most moral (killing a hostage taker, for example). The one that would be somewhat self-preserving. The slippery slope would be more prevalent in the real world, because when you are the sole person responsible for action (as a superpowered person would be. They would be above the police in that they would be able to do more and hence, be relied upon more heavily), there is no one there to really regulate you if your worldview starts to change in terms of what is "acceptable" when a difficult choice emerges.

Now, if there was a cadre of supers, it would be different. But one lone supers, by himself or herself, who could do more than the police, who would they answer to? And how would the reality of actual having to face those difficulties day in and day out color their experiences? Would they make the same decisions later in their career that they would in the beginning? I think most people would try to start off like Superman and be a Boy Scout, but end up more like Batman, while still good and basically moral, does some questionable things.


"Ben is short for Frank."
-Baffling Beer-Man, The Tenacious 3: The Movie

[IMG]http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa10/BafflingBeerman/teamjackface1.jpg[/IMG]

 

Posted

I imagine there would be more factors to whether or not people become a villain or not than simply receiving super powers.

- What powers do you have? Just how high do they go? If someone gets amped up to above captain america physical stats I'd picture them wanting be professional atheletes rather than super villains. I see someone with far greater power to say super man or captain marvel range more likely to abuse it or stick their nose into the world's affairs. I'd definitely want to know my limits before I tried doing anything dangerous.

- Is there anyone else with super powers? Like in no ordinary family, the bank robber who could teleport said "Did you think you were the only one?" That's a really good question to ask yourself. Just because you haven't seen anyone else with powers, doesn't mean there isn't. Who knows if there's been some long running secret order of metas running the world and you publicly showing off is rocking the boat. I'd proceed with caution before slapping on tights and assuming I'm truly the only one with powers. Also does the world's governments know about you? There's alot worse things they can do besides force you to register. (like use your family as leverage or disect you in a lab.)

- Does your power set shut off or are you always in super mode?(or the origin of your powers for that matter.) I picture people who power down like Green Lanterns keep a better sense of what it's like to be human still than people who'd always be powered up like Wonder woman. Power begins to alienate you from others. Just like people really high up in a company don't understand the considerations of what it takes to do a job at the lowest level since they haven't done it recently or ever; people with powers would take for granted just how fragile humans are and all their needs to survive.

- Do you have an exploitable weakness? Is it something common? I think this would be a major factor to how people might react. If you are powerful as martian manhunter, but are weak to fire you might not want to get too uppity with the rest of the world since they can still take you out with something fairly common. There's a way to keep you on your leash. If you are like Black Adam and immune to anything the rest of the planet can do to you, the only thing stopping you from being evil is you. There is no deterence to keep you honest.

- Does your power extend your lifespan? The urges of someone who's been around the block a bunch of times might not be the same as someone who's been newly minted as a super being. Even if your initial schemes and plans were all petty may be you grow out of it. Or may be you were once noble but become sickened with humanity after years of watching us.


For me taking all that into consideration I'd be neither a villain or a hero. I figure the world's lasted this long without a super version of me getting involved it doesn't need me now. At very least doesn't need to know I exist. The first step to destroying something is to know it exists. You can then understand it if you can study it. Then you can control it and break it if you know how it works.

So I'd prefer to eliminate that option by making it appear I've done nothing at all.(if somehow I am discovered I disappear for awhile. I try remain an urban legend at best.) Just like in the episode of futurama where Bender is god to a small race and meets a computer who might be the one above all, (or superman returns people were crying for him to save then.) why allow for people to become dependent on you. If they don't know you're helping them you can give as little or as much as needed without upsetting the balance of the world.

I can think of tons of ways make money without robbing anyone with super powers. Anyone who's first plan is to do that simply doesn't think big enough. Besides the fact super powers remove much of the things you'd need money for anyways.

I've probably thought about this entirely too much for something that's very unlikely to happen to anyone at this current time. I think if it did I'd be well prepared.



- Justice
Lastjustice- lvl 50 defender
Leader of Eternal Vigilance.
- Freedom
Lastjudgment - lvl 50 corruptor
Member of V.A.M.P.


Beware:NERDS ARE THE WORST FANS!!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BafflingBeerMan View Post
The problem with the coin flip solution, to me, is that it robs the problem of any morality, good or bad. You aren't deciding anything, you are letting "fate" do it. You aren't thinking at all, right or wrong. Is Two-Face more moral than Batman's other villains because he let's a coin decide whether or not to rob a bank?
No Thats exactly why I chose the coin flip. There was no morally good choice in the situtation. Thats why you proposed that exact situation. So with no morally good choice to make I took morality out of it since that choice was not fobidden to me with the addendum that I would do the best I could with what resources I had. My problem with your statement is the idea that a coin flip is letting "fate" do it. Its random chance just like it would be if the same situation were to occur with me being closer to one than the other where I could make the logical choice to go after the one closest to me.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BafflingBeerMan View Post
Now, if there was a cadre of supers, it would be different. But one lone supers, by himself or herself, who could do more than the police, who would they answer to? And how would the reality of actual having to face those difficulties day in and day out color their experiences? Would they make the same decisions later in their career that they would in the beginning? I think most people would try to start off like Superman and be a Boy Scout, but end up more like Batman, while still good and basically moral, does some questionable things.
This is why if I had super powers I would chose to work for the police as an officer if they would have me. I would want the training and a better understanding of the legal system not to mention the pay. This way my work would be within the bounds of the law. There is also a support system for when the stress of the job begins to wear on you. Note that unlike GG my reasons are not entirely altruistic. The reputation I would build during my career would carry over once I became a private citizen again. Using that I could guarantee a better life for my friends and family.


Work in progress no more. I have decided that I'm going to put my worst spelling errors here. Triage Bacon, Had this baster idea, TLR

"I'm going to beat the Jesus out of Satan!" My Wife while playing Dante's Inferno

 

Posted

The powers I am given would certainly be a factor in my choice.
Invisible Beam of Death, no Saving Throw, always fatal? Vigilante, give or take.

Healing Touch? Yeah, I'm heading straight to grandma's house to fix that Pagett's Disease and then off to the nearest NICU (Neo-Natal Intensive Care) to heal the babies. Because at that age, I know dang well that they haven't done anything to deserve thier condition.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbq_pork View Post
healing touch? Yeah, i'm heading straight to grandma's house to fix that pagett's disease and then off to the nearest nicu (neo-natal intensive care) to heal the babies. Because at that age, i know dang well that they haven't done anything to deserve thier condition.
|../\
../||\
./.||.\
/..||..\
...||
...||
...||
...||


.............1111
............11111
....+.........111
..+++.......111
....+.........111
...............111
............1111111


Work in progress no more. I have decided that I'm going to put my worst spelling errors here. Triage Bacon, Had this baster idea, TLR

"I'm going to beat the Jesus out of Satan!" My Wife while playing Dante's Inferno

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
The only moral option with superpowers is to use them to help others
This is exactly right. And if I had super powers, I'd use them to help others.

Serial killers would be summarily executed. And so would be unrepentant child molesters. The guys who tanked the economy with their greed and irresponsible banking behavior will be hung from a gallows in the center of Wall Street. So will anyone who steels more than $1 million through ponzi schemes.

Bin Laden and his lieutenants and anyone who gives money knowingly to Al Qaeda - dead.

Those guys who send out scam Nigerian Oil Minister Widow emails (and others of their ilk) would be given notice on the public airwaves that they need to stop IMMEDIATELY. After 48 hours, anyone running such scam will be summarily executed.

Any world leader who starts a war will die. Anyone who orders the assignation of anyone else will die.

I may go easy on corrupt cops and city officials (depending on severity of corruption). They may just end up losing limbs.


The end result will be a hell of a lot of benefit to the poor, powerless, and disenfranchised. But it won’t be pretty.


"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter

29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform

 

Posted

Hello Kira.


Work in progress no more. I have decided that I'm going to put my worst spelling errors here. Triage Bacon, Had this baster idea, TLR

"I'm going to beat the Jesus out of Satan!" My Wife while playing Dante's Inferno

 

Posted

lol

this is because the survey was conducted in America.

the america dream is basically compete to win in any way possible to get as much as you can, so of course everyoen is going to abuse the hell out of super powers


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zubenelgenubi View Post
This is exactly right. And if I had super powers, I'd use them to help others.

Serial killers would be summarily executed. And so would be unrepentant child molesters. The guys who tanked the economy with their greed and irresponsible banking behavior will be hung from a gallows in the center of Wall Street. So will anyone who steels more than $1 million through ponzi schemes.

Bin Laden and his lieutenants and anyone who gives money knowingly to Al Qaeda - dead.

Those guys who send out scam Nigerian Oil Minister Widow emails (and others of their ilk) would be given notice on the public airwaves that they need to stop IMMEDIATELY. After 48 hours, anyone running such scam will be summarily executed.

Any world leader who starts a war will die. Anyone who orders the assignation of anyone else will die.

I may go easy on corrupt cops and city officials (depending on severity of corruption). They may just end up losing limbs.


The end result will be a hell of a lot of benefit to the poor, powerless, and disenfranchised. But it won’t be pretty.
The first sentence is ok - but then the rest just degenrates into a insane bloodbath.


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crim_the_Cold View Post
No Thats exactly why I chose the coin flip. There was no morally good choice in the situtation. Thats why you proposed that exact situation. So with no morally good choice to make I took morality out of it since that choice was not fobidden to me with the addendum that I would do the best I could with what resources I had. My problem with your statement is the idea that a coin flip is letting "fate" do it. Its random chance just like it would be if the same situation were to occur with me being closer to one than the other where I could make the logical choice to go after the one closest to me.
But it is random chance introduced by the user, not by the program, so to speak. Which is what I have the problem with. Flipping a coin takes a little bit of the personal responsibility away from the hero. He or she didn't decide anything. I would say it is more morally "good" to make a decision, even if that decision itself ends up being morally "wrong" then let random chance decide for you (not generate the event, but generate your reaction, so not random chance having you be near a mugging).

As you said, you took the morality out of it. But, I think, that in of itself is not a moral thing to do. What is logical to do is not always the moral thing to do. While logic and morality is not mutually exclusive, they do butt heads from time to time. See any sci-fi story that deals with AI. I believe in a morally tough case like the simultaneous muggings, the only moral thing to do is just decide, on your own, which way to go and go. Since morality is a limit imposed by society, by our intelligence, the only way to truly be moral is to rely on ourselves and ourselves only. By relying on random chance, for instance, in your use of random chance in determining which mugging to go, it can be expanded to not dealing with certain circumstances because random chance puts it out of your jurisdiction. Like I said earlier, if you patrol a certain street corner are you shutting yourself off from helping across town if a crime is being committed just because there may be something 50 paces from you?

(Granted, this is not the debate I was going for with GG, which was no matter what you choose, your own personal morality, which is not universal or societal morality, will play a role and that can lead to you being painted as evil.)


"Ben is short for Frank."
-Baffling Beer-Man, The Tenacious 3: The Movie

[IMG]http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa10/BafflingBeerman/teamjackface1.jpg[/IMG]

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agonus View Post
Hehe. Interesting article.

If I ever acquired a decent level of superpowers, while materialism is always fun, and I have no problem with fascism as long as I'd be making the rules, I'd actually set out to make the world a better place. The problem would be those that disagreed with my methods.
What if you decide like Hamidon that the way to make the world a better place requires getting rid of the humans screwing it up?


 

Posted

Depends on my powers, but over all, yes I would lean towards self gratification. COuld I be a villain? In the strictest interpetation, yes. I do believe in using one's powers to change the world for their own benefit, as well as the worlds benefit, and no, both are not the same.


 

Posted

Quote:
This is exactly right. And if I had super powers, I'd use them to help others.
I'd have a massive problem with your brand of help. The world doesn't need that sort of help. In most cases you're just treating symptoms not really curing the disease. It either creates a power vacuum to be filled or you go so far to terrorize humanity into following your code of morality like Tyrant. Who heck are you to decide who should live or die? This is a very slippery slope that's entirely too easy to fall down. Is the future of our world worth a single human life? You'll never stop at one!

Creating more death and fear is last thing I'd want to see people with powers doing. Freedom is the right of all people, even evil ones. Peace thru tyranny is not the answer. I refuse live in that world and would fight someone like that with every fiber of my being. I'd rather live in a world where murders and thieves can sometimes escape justice than have some super being judging us all and trampling our freedoms because they can.



- Justice
Lastjustice- lvl 50 defender
Leader of Eternal Vigilance.
- Freedom
Lastjudgment - lvl 50 corruptor
Member of V.A.M.P.


Beware:NERDS ARE THE WORST FANS!!

 

Posted

I think most people would party like a rock star.


 

Posted

Of course people would be evil - How else could heroes fill out a season of villain-of-the-week-episodes!?


Thank you, City of Heroes, for giving me a superhero social network combined with amazingly smooth game play. Petitions signed with realistic expectations.