No Ordinary Family premier
By
American_Valor,
Posted on: 2010-09-28 17:21 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
I like it!
I like the upbeat tone, and the family-friendly quality, and the fact that, yup, superpeople are allowed to fight! Chiklis makes it for me, but I like the rest of the cast, too.
The daughter has to get over the "I don't want to be different" stuff, though. As other posters have noted, that's trite, and frankly, I rarely ever buy it in comics. Yeah, if you become The Thing or the Acidic Jew, you might sometimes wish it hadn't happened, but most people who gain superpowers would be jumping for joy.
Anyway, I've got a new show to follow!
Troy Hickman - So proud to have contributed to and played in this wonderful CoH universe
Quote:
Which superpower have you had?
|
Originally Posted by TroyHickman
Yeah, if you become The Thing or the Acidic Jew, you might sometimes wish it hadn't happened, but most people who gain superpowers would be jumping for joy.
|
Quote:
I'd tell you, but then I'd have to use my power on you.
|
Originally Posted by brophog02
Which superpower have you had?
|
Troy Hickman - So proud to have contributed to and played in this wonderful CoH universe
Quote:
I liked the severe amount of character building it was doing... until they killed off the brother without a second thought. That disregard to their own established work was the start of my disappointment in the show.
|
Originally Posted by QuietAmerican
Yeah, the whole Mexican Road-trip was so... good! Such good tv right there.
 Just a great way to bring back Syler! So interesting and realistic! LOL Sorry, I'm very bitter. Heroes was a great idea broken.  |
i do like the more upbeat tone: I remember Tim Kring's wife taking the credit for adding Hiro (because all the Americans would be so scared of not fitting in their carefully ordered little social boxes - Hiro,being new school Japanese, thinks it's MOST AWESOME THING EVAH.)
Note also that the only people allowed to enjoy having powers in Heroes were either out and out villains or shown as becoming unhinged (Peter staying up listening to police scanners,Claire thinking about going on patrol...)
Actually,I'd LOVE a comedy cameo from Claire in this series,having embraced her Regen Scrappzor role and gone full spandex..
Is it time for the dance of joy yet?
Quote:
It's not that the characters in Heroes didn't embrace their powers. It's that not a single one of them tried to become a hero and succeeded. Try watching the series again, I have. With very few exceptions the only people they tried to help were their friends, family, or themselves. And when they did try to be a hero in general they gave it up almost immediately or they wound up punished for it. In fact the only ones who used their powers constantly and without reservations were all the villains.|
Originally Posted by Variant
Hiro, Peter, Sylar, Micah, all 12 members of the original group...probably missing some as well.
All characters who embraced their powers. Compared to 4 characters in NOF. EDIT: You can praise NOF all you want...as I too think it will be a good show...but exaggerating details and flat out making things up to "show how much better NOF is than Heroes" is a bit absurd. |
Hiro, who most wanted to be a traditional hero waited until the last season to form a company to help ordinary people. But even then he couldn't get any real clients. And the couple of clients he did get were treated as a source of humor rather than a source of heroics. He rescued a cat from a tree and did a groundhog day thing where he tried to rescue the same guy over and over but kept failing. And even when he succeeded it wasn't from being heroic, it was from him just talking to the guy.
Claire. The only time in the entire series she did something to help somebody other than her family or other people with powers was when she entered the burning train in the first episode.
Peter. The only time he did something to help ordinary people was when he was using his powers as a paramedic to rescue people. And the moment the false victim filed a lawsuit against him Peter said, "Forget it, mom was right. It's not worth trying to help people."
Micah, only out to help others with powers.
Monica. The only character who decided to become a traditional type hero. For this she gets captured, almost killed, and then vanishes from the series completely. And her failed attempt at heroics was to get back Micah's bag of comics. So again, it was somebody she knew, not a stranger in trouble.
D.L. and Hiro rescue some people from a car crash but that's the extent of D.L.s onscreen heroics and the purpose of the scene is to introduce the characters to each other.
The seasons did focus on the threats of trying to keep the city from exploding, trying to prevent a disease from destroying most the world, to prevent everybody in the world from getting powers and trying to prevent Samuel from starting a war between people with powers and normal people. But although each of those story arcs in general did involve saving the world each of them also was completely isolated from the public and only involved the interaction between the major characters on both sides.
The only exception to this pattern was the very final episode where they gathered as a group and used their powers to rescue innocents and fight the big bad. That final episode showed a lot of potential at a new direction but we'll never see that new direction unless possibly at some point there is a movie.
I'm not saying I disliked Heroes. I was a big fan and hated when it was canceled. I'm just saying it featured very few true heroic actions and when it did feature those actions it was either a one off by that particular character or the action resulted in bad consequences.
And the reason I'm saying that NOF has already done better than that is because in the very first episode Michael Chiklis immediately decides he has to use his powers for good, and he starts patrolling for trouble. When as a result he is wounded he doesn't complain that it's not worth helping people. Instead he says that he has to keep trying even though it's dangerous. If the show continues in this vein then it will be about super HEROES. Where as a contrast despite it's name Heroes was just a show about people who had super powers.
Don't count your weasels before they pop dink!
Heroes was good for what it was. Did it have problems, yeah sure. What show doesn't. But NOF's characters are far more relatable.
Heroes suffered for a littany of reasons. Chief among them:
1. Tim Kring originally planned to have each Volume stand on its own. Bringing in new people just discovering their powers. Volume ones characters would've made brief cameo's here and there but for the most part every season would have featured new supers coming together to stop a world threat.
However, Hollywood being the souless beast that it is took one look at the ratings halfway through the 1st season and slammed the brakes on his original vision. Forcing him to retain the 'Stars' from the 1st season rather than risk an all new cast. This in-turn forced Kring and crew to redo the entire series to focus on Patrelli and Claire etc etc.
2. Writers Strike.
Season 2 was just gearing up when the strike happened. Which left the producers scrambling like rats. The volume was cut drastically short. Ending at the mid-season break and not returning for over a year.
The weakend story combined with the extended break meant a good chunk of viewers didn't return for the next volume.
3. Budget. With Kring's original vision, the budget would have allowed for better fight scenes in each subsequent season. However since he was forced to retain the 'Stars' from season 1 he was also forced to pay them increasingly higher salaries, thus cutting into the SFX budget and making them resort to flashes of light behind a door. This also meant that with the show costing more and more with each season, when ratings dropped below a certain point the advertisers fled like rats. Killing the show.
Heroes wasn't supposed to be upbeat. It was designed to be a gritty look at what would happen in the 'real' world if all the sudden people started getting powers. If Kring's original vision had been allowed to flourish we would've been presented with unique storylines and new personalities each year. Keeping the show fresh and allowing for larger SFX. This in turn would have kept the ratings up and well...
I'm not bitter.
I'm still highly ticked off that it's Oct. and I have no Heroes on Monday.
That said, NOF had me hooked from the 1st words Chiklis uttered. Something about the show just clicks. Incredibles meets Heroes indeed.
I'm psyched to have a show I can speculate about again, as this was one of the big draws for me with Heroes 1st few volumes. Trying to figure out what power would be next, who the bad guy in shadows was (Sylar) etc etc... Looking forward to Tuesdays now!
Maestro Mavius - Infinity
Capt. Biohazrd - PCSAR
Talsor Tech - Talsorian Guard
Keep Calm & Chive On!
Quote:
So does that mean we'll have a rolling thread with snarkiness and wit (well ok, snarkiness) while the show is live Tuesdays at 8 EST?
|
Originally Posted by TroyHickman
Anyway, I've got a new show to follow!
|
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
Quote:
And his character role as he tried get some stimilus money for his ecomony.
|
Originally Posted by Wayfarer
5 characters. I'm pretty sure the Obama Mask robber had embraced his power.
|
- Justice
Lastjustice- lvl 50 defender
Leader of Eternal Vigilance.
- Freedom
Lastjudgment - lvl 50 corruptor
Member of V.A.M.P.
Beware:NERDS ARE THE WORST FANS!!
Quote:
Preview for next weeks episode does show her being worried about the potential health problems.
|
Originally Posted by QuietAmerican
I still can't get over that the super scientific mom isn't worried about her own, her husband's or her Kids health. After all, something pretty major has happened to them, you would think she would want to have them at least have a physical or something.
|
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
Quote:
Exactly. Heroes had all that awesome potential and didn't do anything with it. |
Originally Posted by NinjaPirate
When a show achieves in a single episode what people wanted, what Heroes wasn't able to do it in it's entire run, that's how.
-np |
Here we had an awesome knockdown fight between a teleporter and a SS/Inv right at the end of the episode. With the expectation that we might have more such fun action in future episodes.Earlier someone mentioned that heroes was built around an event at the end of the season while NOF is built as an open ended story. Oh certainly there appears to be an intermediate threat lurking on the horizon of the boss and the meta's working for him but the story doesn't revolve around that.
My guess is that much of the problem with Heroes was that every season basically revolved around the end of season event and so every story line in it had to aim for that. This limited its options.
Anyway here is hoping that No Ordinary Family lives up to the promise of the first episode. It has gone on my DVR to watch along side NCIS.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
Quote:
Except to have the story move along at a decent pace. Heroes would have taken 6 episodes to get to the teleport vs ss/inv fight there at the end of episode 1 of NOF.|
Originally Posted by Variant
My point is that, so far...in only one episode...NOF has done nothing that Heroes hasn't already done.
|
In part that is because there were so many individual story lines to move forward in Heroes. Mind you the first season of Heroes was good but it never fully lived up to it's promise.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
Quote:
Exactly, people stuck with Heroes because it had potential. The problem is that it never appeared to even try and reach any of that potential. Even with that Season 1 of Heroes was pretty good.|
Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
Folks aren't saying that NOF will be great; they're saying Heroes already sucked. |
NOF actually had the story move along in the first episode which is something that Heroes would have taken several episodes of Heroes. That is why people are saying that NOF is what they wanted Hereos to be. They wanted the story to move along not drag out while the characters angst this week over this or that.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
Quote:
My DVR cut off recording before the preview started. This is good to know. Thanks.
|
Originally Posted by TerraDraconis
Preview for next weeks episode does show her being worried about the potential health problems.
|
Quote:
Is that the regular time? Because I teach Tuesday nights. But if I were to end them a bit early, who would complain?|
Originally Posted by MentalMaden
So does that mean we'll have a rolling thread with snarkiness and wit (well ok, snarkiness) while the show is live Tuesdays at 8 EST?
|
(Troy Hickman, previous nominee for his college's Excellence in Teaching award)
Troy Hickman - So proud to have contributed to and played in this wonderful CoH universe
Quote:
A man needs his priorities.
|
Originally Posted by TroyHickman
Is that the regular time? Because I teach Tuesday nights. But if I were to end them a bit early, who would complain?
(Troy Hickman, previous nominee for his college's Excellence in Teaching award) |
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
Quote:
I don't think it was in the after show previews, I think it was on a promo later in the week (where I saw it). Could be wrong, don't think I watched my DVR'd version as I'd seen the pilot a while back.
|
Originally Posted by QuietAmerican
My DVR cut off recording before the preview started. This is good to know. Thanks.
|
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
I'm surprised people seem to like this so much. It was fine. I'll probably watch it. But it's a sitcom with all the saccharine sweetness that brings to it.
I agree with a previous poster that this seems pretty Disneyfied, like something you're supposed to watch with your 14 year old. Nothing wrong with that, especially if you actually have young kids, but I'm just surprised more people here didn't get a little nauseated by the cheesy sitcom jokes and the strong virginity = virtue sub-theme. Also, that the main villain is apparently a shadowy corporation trying to do something bad with a secret super formula.
They did a lot of telling instead of showing. "You're never around for the kids." "I usually tell this kind of stuff to dad." "You have to face that he has a learning disability." But we haven't been with these characters long enough for me to really connect with that or to be convinced. Frankly, they all seemed pretty happy except the teenage daughter doing teenage daughter stuff and I guess their mom works a lot because she's super successful. Really, these are the kinds of problems you want to have. So I didn't get the dysfunctional vibe at all, except that they kept saying it.
I'm also disappointed that apparently all this show has to do to be better than Heroes is have a good fight scene with sfx. Seriously? Heroes was pretty abysmal by the end, but you're saying that if they just threw in some good fight scenes you would've liked it? Being so easily satisfied by eye candy is a bit of a downer to me. I think people should demand more than that.
And I guess the pace is the other reason it's apparently better than Heroes. Except so much happened here in one hour that I didn't care about it happening. Like, the dad is, I guess, unhappy with his job or something. Then he gets super strength and that makes his life more fulfilling. Except I don't know this guy at all, and they never really show him being unhappy at his job - so when he gets super strength, I feel no vicarious joy that, wow, now his life is going to turn around! I'm just like, OK that's cool dude. Same with their "dumb" kid. I never see him being dumb except that maybe he doesn't know where Brazil is. So when he does really well on his math test without studying, I'm not very excited for him. I was just thinking, oh OK so he's like Forge or Cipher. So that's why shows with good writing usually have a slower pace. Because if stuff happens to characters before you care about them, then you don't care about the stuff that happened.
I guess if you just want people to shoot fire at each other then that doesn't matter.
I don't mean to slam the show so harshly. Like I said, it was fine and I'll probably watch more of it. I'm just surprised people here seemed to like it as much as they did. It seems to me mediocre to above average, but certainly not great. It doesn't have a laugh track, so that's a big plus.
Different strokes and all that.
bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonner-
ronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenth ur-
nuk!
I agree with the whole "saying it's better than heroes" thing, and the main reason I agree with that is because the show is a different style of show.
Why people are saying it's better than heroes is less to do with the flashiness and more to do with most of the people saying these things wanting to see X event in heroes so much that when they get the flashiness right off the bat with this show it makes them happy and thus as it is right now people think it's a better show.
I personally like both. I think that everyone that is saying that No Ordinary Family is better should think about what they like in a show and then rewatch both episode ones from both series and ask is one really better than the other. I don't think you can say that just from that. Both shows had very good first episodes for what they were going for.
As far as the heavy handed messages... which crosses the suspension of belief line ^.^... those type things set off a twinge of annoyance in me, but as long as they are going somewhere with them it doesn't usually bother me. The virgin thing went somewhere. I have read manga where I am suddenly being preached at for 2 or 3 pages and it doesn't fit the story. Or look at the ending of Evangelion... the original ending... It's just a bunch of bad pseudo philosophy while on an acid trip that has nothing to do with the story.
Quote:
I think you're looking at this wrong.|
Originally Posted by Variant
Not what's being said in this thread.
Listen...I'm not saying Heroes is the best show at all. All I'm saying is that...it's absurd to say that this is what you wanted heroes to be after only one episode. It's ridiculous to exaggerate and make things up about a show in order to make another show look better. |
I don't think people are saying that this series (of which we have seen one episode) is a better series than Heroes. I think it's more that this episode is what we wanted to see in Heroes.
Nobody is saying that this is a better series. We can't, since we haven't seen the entire series. We're saying that this episode is what we always hoped for and were constantly denied with Heroes.
Est sularis oth Mithas
Quote:
Exactly. There were so very few "gosh wow" moments in Heroes. They weren't even attempted. It's like they were deliberately avoided as being a bad thing. They mostly came from the villains. The exception to this being most of the flying scenes. In fact when Nathan first flew away escaping HRG and the Haitian I rewound and watched that scene like a dozen times because finally, "FINALLY" somebody had gotten super flight right. NOF tried for the gosh wow factor multiple times. They managed it really well during the SS vs teleport fight and not bad during the run down the freeway but the point is they attempted to do it multiple times.|
Originally Posted by Arnabas
I think you're looking at this wrong.
I don't think people are saying that this series (of which we have seen one episode) is a better series than Heroes. I think it's more that this episode is what we wanted to see in Heroes. Nobody is saying that this is a better series. We can't, since we haven't seen the entire series. We're saying that this episode is what we always hoped for and were constantly denied with Heroes. |
It's about the concept and I'll say it again. NOF is about heroes. Heroes was about angsty whiners with powers.
Don't count your weasels before they pop dink!
Quote:
Re: the first paragraph above, yeah, the whole 'success as tragedy' is really a problem for me. Upper Middle class wealthy... family having problems? Cry me a river, you whiney little b***es. |
Originally Posted by james_joyce
They did a lot of telling instead of showing. "You're never around for the kids." "I usually tell this kind of stuff to dad." "You have to face that he has a learning disability." But we haven't been with these characters long enough for me to really connect with that or to be convinced. Frankly, they all seemed pretty happy except the teenage daughter doing teenage daughter stuff and I guess their mom works a lot because she's super successful. Really, these are the kinds of problems you want to have. So I didn't get the dysfunctional vibe at all, except that they kept saying it.
<snip> And I guess the pace is the other reason it's apparently better than Heroes. Except so much happened here in one hour that I didn't care about it happening. Like, the dad is, I guess, unhappy with his job or something. Then he gets super strength and that makes his life more fulfilling. Except I don't know this guy at all, and they never really show him being unhappy at his job - so when he gets super strength, I feel no vicarious joy that, wow, now his life is going to turn around! I'm just like, OK that's cool dude. Same with their "dumb" kid. I never see him being dumb except that maybe he doesn't know where Brazil is. So when he does really well on his math test without studying, I'm not very excited for him. I was just thinking, oh OK so he's like Forge or Cipher. So that's why shows with good writing usually have a slower pace. Because if stuff happens to characters before you care about them, then you don't care about the stuff that happened. I guess if you just want people to shoot fire at each other then that doesn't matter. I don't mean to slam the show so harshly. Like I said, it was fine and I'll probably watch more of it. I'm just surprised people here seemed to like it as much as they did. It seems to me mediocre to above average, but certainly not great. It doesn't have a laugh track, so that's a big plus. Different strokes and all that. |
Re: the second paragraph above, agreed - I think it may have been intersting to see maybe 2 of the 4 members of the family get their powers in the first ep, and begin to deal with that set of issues, then the other 2 members get their powers in the next episode. The rushing was offputting, esp. after seeing the recent cable shows that have done very well with exposition while not being at all boring (Burn Notice, Breaking Bad, Justified...)
I think it's not bad, but it could become a recurring ABC Afterschool special if they're not careful. Disney's tendency to avoid controversial viewpoints on complicated subjects makes them very subject to this.
Arc #6015 - Coming Unglued
"A good n00b-sauce is based on a good n00b-roux." - The Masque
it's cliche but true, money doesn't buy happiness. Dysfunction comes in a lot of form.
The problem with Heroes is that...
Season 1 they planned these character for this season so everything was more or less resolved at the end of season one
Season 2 they were forced to continue with characters they had no intention of continuing with
Season 3 the writers were gutted and I believe this was the strike year.
Season 4 they tried to recover and made a good attempt. The last episodes' ending spot was awesome, and while I wish I could see more of those characters, the show premise was resolved when they went public.