So Castle should in no way balance peacebringers while keeping the inherent buff from teammates in mind?
Be well, people of CoH.
Wouldn't making the attacks have higher recharge/damage scale pigeon hole us into Nova form more so? I mean, I get that it'd be a lot better for high level content, because it'd result in higher DPAs for the full attack chain, but it seems like it'd be a pain early on.
I'd like to see Solar Flare as knock down instead of knockback.
The only "balance" I REALLY would like to see is some mez resist added to the shields, so if you picked up all 4 you'd have a worthwhile amount against each (or most) types of mez. I mean resistance, not protection. That'd give human-form PBs something unique over Warshades that wouldn't horrendously change early level content.
I'm probably in the minority though because I still find PBs more fun at 50 than WS, even though I can see why WS will often outperform PBs.
@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
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I don't understand Bill, I had the inherent buff in mind at all times while constructing this. For example, while originally, I thought that moving the damage mods to 1.0 would be fair, then I ran some number on how that looks with a defender and tanker on the team and it seemed overpowered.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
So Castle should in no way balance peacebringers while keeping the inherent buff from teammates in mind?
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Likewise, given the potential for resistance from Blasters/Scrappers I thought that if you were going to remove the crash from Light Form and increase its uptime that its base numbers had to be lower ala One with the Shield/Strength of Will. In fact, I considered suggesting that the attack rate lock those powers had remained, but I thought that some folks would think that was a nerf, which wasn't my intention.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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At early levels, being in Nova would be a bit more advantageous until you got things in order. But Gleaming Bolt under this idea becomes a power worth using and its uptime isn't bad at all.|
Originally Posted by Gilia
Wouldn't making the attacks have higher recharge/damage scale pigeon hole us into Nova form more so? I mean, I get that it'd be a lot better for high level content, because it'd result in higher DPAs for the full attack chain, but it seems like it'd be a pain early on.
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| I'd like to see Solar Flare as knock down instead of knockback. |
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| The only "balance" I REALLY would like to see is some mez resist added to the shields, so if you picked up all 4 you'd have a worthwhile amount against each (or most) types of mez. I mean resistance, not protection. That'd give human-form PBs something unique over Warshades that wouldn't horrendously change early level content. |
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| I'm probably in the minority though because I still find PBs more fun at 50 than WS, even though I can see why WS will often outperform PBs. |
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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That's why I'm thinking of resistance. I agree with Castle on the mez protection issue, however. This would help alleviate the lack of mez protection while making the resist shields more worthwhile.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Castle's statements on the issue have been pretty firm. No permanent mez protection. The changes to Light Form I suggest would give you about 50% uptime with enhancement before considering other recharge enhancement. That's something at least, even if it does come late game.
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I'm sure if they reexamine the Khelds, which I understand will at least be after i20 because of the Fitness changes, PBs will get some sort of boost.
@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
No suggested change to Photon Seekers? Reduced recharge? Increased duration? Anything?
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
I'm all for buffing PBs, might actually make me want to play mine. Currently I just hate the fact that they are the weakest of all the EATs (IMO).
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
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Yes.|
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
No suggested change to Photon Seekers? Reduced recharge? Increased duration?
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Please.
Where to now?
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"Gleaming Bolt: Increase this power's damage scale from .6 to 1.32, increase its recharge from 1.5 seconds to 3 seconds and increased its endurance cost from 3.12 to 4.37. "
No way! This spammable attack is great where it is. Slotted with procs it's awesome and I love it's fast cast low recharge.
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Low level before you have those procs, it does over twice as much damage and still is an easy part of an attack chain. At high levels, it's DPA is much better and it's still an easy place to put procs.|
Originally Posted by Mercury_Down
"Gleaming Bolt: Increase this power's damage scale from .6 to 1.32, increase its recharge from 1.5 seconds to 3 seconds and increased its endurance cost from 3.12 to 4.37. "
No way! This spammable attack is great where it is. Slotted with procs it's awesome and I love it's fast cast low recharge. |
EDIT: I just did some math on it too. Using every damage proc available to that power and slotting it to the ED soft-cap (1.95) you wind up with a DPS of 46.4 and a DPA of 116.16. Compare that to my proposed version which has a DPS of 44.65 and a DPA of 178.6.
As we know the DPA is much more important at high level, but you lose almost no DPS and this is without recharge slotting. Once you consider recharge slotting, the proposed version pulls ahead with one SOs worth of recharge (.33) where the numbers go to 54.79 for the current version and 54.95 for the proposed.
You're better off no matter how you slice it.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
i'd also like to see the shields get the fire armor treatment by which i mean having, say, shinning shield giving mag 3 stun protection and quant/thermal shield giving either slow res or end/recover debuff resistance.
Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
I doubt you'll get a scale 1.32 attack on a 3 second recharge with a 4.37 end cost. A scale 1 attack has a 4 second timer and 5.2 end cost; Shriek has that recharge and end cost to do 0.84 damage.
FWIW, I've felt that the EATs should have higher base hp in general (I was thinking Scrapper level, to match their hp cap) - this would help PBs with their self-heals. Some other changes I'd like to see:
- Get rid of the animation for Proton Scatter (please?). I hate it, and only put up with it on two powers: Fulcrum Shift and Heat Loss... and Proton Scatter is no Fulcrum Shift.
- Cut the "cast time" for the shape changes in half.
- Solar Flare -> 0.67 KB. I have other powers to scatter things, I'd like to be able to chain the AoEs.
- Radiant Strike could take the Blaster Havoc Punch/Bone Smasher numbers (scale 2.6, 14 sec rech, 13.52 end) for an alternative heavy hitter on PBs that doesn't take over 3 seconds to animate. It's not like you can't fill the time between recharges with other powers.
- Get rid of the power pool restrictions. Maybe I want Recall Friend or Air Superiority!
- For Warshades, give Sunless Mire and Essence Drain the Soul Drain and Siphon Life treatment (ie, frontloaded buff and real damage).
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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Personally, I like the OP's suggestions (but this is true of almost ANY proposed buffs to PBs). My biggest current gripes are the KB of Solar Flare (a reduced KB would be an okay-ish compromise, but I'd prefer it to be a carbon copy of the Dwarf version) as well as Proton Scatter. It would be GREAT if it has a stun component like the WS version. At least in that case we'd be able to leverage Pulsar a bit better.
Overall, PBs are certainly better than they were, but are still the weakest performers of the EATs atm... at least from my vantage point, even if my lvl 50 PB is also my favorite (I like underdogs).
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Cool! As with most things I am mostly concerned with PVP, so my concerns stem from there. |
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Low level before you have those procs, it does over twice as much damage and still is an easy part of an attack chain. At high levels, it's DPA is much better and it's still an easy place to put procs.
EDIT: I just did some math on it too. Using every damage proc available to that power and slotting it to the ED soft-cap (1.95) you wind up with a DPS of 46.4 and a DPA of 116.16. Compare that to my proposed version which has a DPS of 44.65 and a DPA of 178.6. As we know the DPA is much more important at high level, but you lose almost no DPS and this is without recharge slotting. Once you consider recharge slotting, the proposed version pulls ahead with one SOs worth of recharge (.33) where the numbers go to 54.79 for the current version and 54.95 for the proposed. You're better off no matter how you slice it. |
What I would be concerned with about with your change would be the recharge to more than just gleaming bolt. Currently I can put gleaming bolt on auto with four damage procs (3 of which, the purple, the glad jav and the shield breaker, provide unresisted damage in PVP.) It's current recharge in my build before DR and hasten is .62 seconds. Before, I used to alternate between bolt and eye activating both in 2.67 seconds and land five damage procs + a hold proc or -res proc.
As it stands now, I can land 8 damage procs in 2.62 seconds or less with hasten running using only gleaming bolt. With your recharge changes I wouldn't even be able to spam eye and bolt effectively back to back. I'd have to pick up gleaming blast as well.
Now, working out the DPA and DPS values are beyond me but I can tell you the unresistable damage from procs make all the difference in PVP with resists being what they are (global resists.) If you can show me the math is better in PVP using a bolt + eye + bolt + blast 2.67 second attack chain landing as many as six damage procs with your recharges then I'll go for it.
But hey, if you don't want to, no worries I'll adjust as always if changes like this took place. But who are we kidding anyway? PBs getting a buff? Haha!
Also, don't get me wrong, I am all for buffs to PBs. Like toggles applying to forms or at least supressing while in a form. More damage with the recharge rates as they are, or lowering the cast time of eye and blast, that kind of thing.
What I found most annoying about my peacebringer... which stopped leveling at mid 30's as the bosses were just getting way too hairy (hard) for me and my playstyle with em (which was working just fine prior to the level range in question)... blasty/slappy/shooty/dwarfing now and then is that the knockbacks are NOT 100% reliable with all the crud that resists it and unlike his dark cous (my warshade) hes got bugger all for controlling said bosses till he can make em dead as the the PB version of "the clap" is a STUN while their version of the big overhand smashy moove in this game it's rediculously a HOLD.
Do this one thing....
Make that Overhand smashy attack's mez to match the aoe minion mez. What keeps getting my PB dead are things like Carnie bosses and anything else that can do crazy ammounts of damage AND mez or have wierd one shot wonder massive DoT attacks...
So possibilities.
Option one:
The PB clap: Change from Stun to Hold. Or leave as a stun if option A and or C below are used... with option C being a matching mez. Easiest change least game breaking for PvP is to just make it a hold and be done with it. Anything that is protected from stuns is likely protected from holds anyway... So it's still a minions only and unsuspecting/ill-prepared player with a squshie toon falling prey to it anyway. And honestly who cares weather the minions are mezed with a stun or a hold anyway, provided their mezed. The power Keeps it's current animation just give the foes that eyes blinded effect like illusions big aoe hold does... only this version just does lesser beings being mag 2... but stacks to assist with the over hand smashy on a hard target with its mag 3... one could still miss... (just sayin' but it gives a chance.) Also stays well within the realm of what we'd expect light wielding force of doom to be able to pull off.
Option 2:
Changing the big Overhand smash.
A: Make it a stun with or without an targeted aoe effect by cloning elec melee/manipulation power-sets instead of Energy. Keep the "white light PB" effects though.
B: Keep it as is but change the AoE stun as mentioned above to a hold to match the dang thing.
C: Solve two PB issues with one stone.... and right years of neglect and injustice.. lol
Make it either a mag 3 stun or hold (whatever matches the "clappy" power).... and make it do everything AIR SUPERIORITY does. Reduce it to superior damage from "extreme" if you must but seriously with stone melee having it's massive bash and "hold" power the thing keeping awesome damage wouldn't be game breaking, it would still be on a longer recharge then air sup anyway.
Also the big guttbuster punch should be 100% knock-back chance... If I put that much time tellegraphing a punch it better knockback anything that "CAN" be knocked back. ... It's not just a PB thing, I frankly believe both Crane kick (MA) and Kick from fighting, simply by their animations alone warrant higher knockback % chances. That may just be me but they feel wrong when it doesn't happen.... and looks pretty lame when your trying to show off the game to friends... just sad.
Sorry for spelling errors (I'm in the wrong browser for a spellcheck).
That is all. 
Thanks for reading my two cents.
I pretty much like all the OP's suggestions.
My PB was my main for a good while. I mainly solo and she could solo pretty well, but when the ability to up our difficulties to +8 came along... well, I wanted a toon that can solo at +8. Several of my alts can, but my PB (even loaded with 6 purple sets, all buff accolades, LotGs, Miracles...well you get the picture) cannot... +4 is about as high as I can get without faceplaning alot. Sorta saddened me when I saw the Vid of Alien1's Human Only Warshade soloing Malta at +4/+8, knowing my PB would never be able to do the same, even thought she had to be as Pimped out as his Shade, if not more so...
So, she's went into hibernation and I've considered gutting her and moving all her uber enhancments to other toons, but with changes like these taking effect... can you say 'Comeback Special???!!!'
I agree with all the suggested changes. Changing IS into a stun would be nice for PvP. Raising the overall damage cap or giving PB's the dominator treatment like Geko suggested would be awesome and doable. I would also like to see a change to powers that are rarely used. For example, I'd like to see the group fly changed into a more useful team buff/leadership toggle. I don't encounter any players that enjoy group fly outside of a Hamidon raid so it has always seemed like a waste. All the recent power proliferation, changes to Epic and Patron powers, and the ability to swap out hero/villain epics with GR have made all other AT's even more attractive than Khelds. I think with a few more tweaks Castle could make PB's more appealing to majority of the playerbase that is still disappointed by our overall performance.
@Dawun
Old School
Renegades
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I hardly ever just pull numbers out of my reptilian bottom (they scuff the scales |
Originally Posted by Siolfir
I doubt you'll get a scale 1.32 attack on a 3 second recharge with a 4.37 end cost. A scale 1 attack has a 4 second timer and 5.2 end cost; Shriek has that recharge and end cost to do 0.84 damage.
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). I lifted this change from Dom's Psi Assault. Psi Dart had the same issues that Gleaming Bolt does and I believe the same fix will work. Why? Because Luminous Blast is designed VERY similarly to a Dominator Assault set. A mix of range/melee/utility.Quote:
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Originally Posted by Issue 15 Anniversary Patch Notes
Psionic Assault
* Psionic Dart: Increased this power's damage scale from .6 to 1.32, increased its recharge from 1.5 seconds to 3 seconds and increased its endurance cost from 3.12 to 4.37. |
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
A 3 second recharge single target attack, if going by the "rules," does .84 damage an costs 4.368 endurance.
Why Castle decided to break those rules for Psionic Dart, I do not know but I see no reason for it to happen with Peacebringers as well.
EDIT: Has CoD not been updated since the Dom changes? It still show Psi Ddart at .84 damage.
EDIT2: Mids also shows it at 44.4 versus CoD's 44.38
You sure that patch not didn't have a correction later on in another patch, EG?
Be well, people of CoH.
I'm sorry, Geko, but I really Hate the idea of slowing down attacks. HATE!
I play my main PB as all-human and your proposal would devastate my ranged attack-chain. I don't want to have to rush into melee Just to actually have an attack-chain. Bolt-Eye-Bolt-Blast-Bolt etc. becomes a painful chain of wait-wait-attack-wait-attack-wait-wait when you slow the recharge.
Unless, by some magic, you have a plan for creating a relatively seamless attack chain from these three attacks at your new level of recharge? Or are you thinking, 'Everyone does Perma-Hasten, so recharge doesn't matter'? Because I don't have time to explain to you, that Hasten does not float my boat.
If you propose a buff, make sure it's actually a buff for all levels and (most) playstyles... right?
I've already gone through this agony with my Energy Melee Tanker. Please, sir! Please! Stop the hurting!
Be Well!
Fireheart
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While I understand Completely the hatred of a fast set becoming a slow set, in EG's defense, what he's proposing is in no way a nerf, which is all the change to ET was.| I've already gone through this agony with my Energy Melee Tanker. |
It would, however, change the feel of the PB, especially in the low levels, in a way that I don't agree with.
I'm all for changing light form. It's completely unfair that PBs should have to suffer through that ridiculous crash when their WS cousin has absolutely no crash at all.
I'm all for reworking Photon Seekers.
I don't even see anything wrong with placing mez resistance in the shields.
I'd even back changing PB buildup to be something more interesting like the new fiery embrace.
But the rest of these changes? No thanks.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Without going through all of the patch notes, I'll assume that the patch note is simply wrong and you didn't miss another change that may have updated it from the beta.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
I hardly ever just pull numbers out of my reptilian bottom (they scuff the scales
). I lifted this change from Dom's Psi Assault. Psi Dart had the same issues that Gleaming Bolt does and I believe the same fix will work. Why? Because Luminous Blast is designed VERY similarly to a Dominator Assault set. A mix of range/melee/utility.Issue 15 Release Notes |
Currently, in-game, Psionic Dart has a 3 second recharge, 4.37 endurance cost, and deals 44.38 damage at level 50.
Scale 1 damage is 55.61 for a 1.0 damage modifier; apply 0.95 (dominator ranged) and you get 52.8295; divide 44.38 by 52.8295 and you get 0.84.
An incorrect patch note doesn't change that it should be doing scale 0.84 damage for that endurance cost and recharge.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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QoL Buff;
Remove that Smegging awful whine from every. Damn. Power! Seriously! Its the one character I have to lower my volume quite considerably on, and the methods used to silence/change sounds don't seem to work for me.
On topic; Mez resistance in shields would be ace, as would a reworking of Photon Seekers and Light Form.
But leave the attacks alone, I'd say.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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OK we all know Warshades are better than Peacebringers late game, if anyone agrees, we'll argue it out. But better to just get to the idea.
DO THIS CASTLE:
The blast changes are mostly lifted from similar changes done to Dominators to great effect. Peacebringers don't have the same damage buffing ability that Warshades do, hence the small buff to base damage to go along with the blast changes. The Solar Flare change maintains the KB that some folks enjoy, but lessens the scatter a bit.
Finally, the changes to Light Form and the base resist changes are to provide Peacebringers the same opportunities for mitigation in the human form that Warshades have with Eclipse. But it's a different path. The changes to Light Form make it work similar to One with the Shield and Strength of Will but without the ban on recharge enhancement.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.