Discussion: Party Pack Now Available In The NCsoft Store!
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2010-09-14 11:55 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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Your second point rather negates the first. I'm seeing, largely, constructive criticism here from exactly the people who will not be buying it, myself included. Why then the passive aggressive tone with your first paragraph?
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Originally Posted by Kheldarn
Blah blah blah too expensive blah blah blah.
Guess what? NCSoft sets the price. If you're not happy with that price, feel free to take it up with them. I wish you the best of luck on that one. And if you don't like the pack, just don't buy it. That speaks louder than any post you could ever make. Unless, of course, you don't buy it, and post constructive feedback/criticism. |
Q. Just wondering Posi, where are the new dance emotes we were told would come with GR?
A. Positron: Whoops, my bad.
1387 badges, and counting
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An unconstructive post, and a poor analogy to boot. If the store is a place you enjoy shopping at, and you really would like to buy that mug, then it probably isn't unreasonable to have a discussion with the owner/manager.|
Originally Posted by Smoking Baby
Do you guys walk into a store, inspect an item, and then go complain to the floor manager that the price for the mug you want is too high?
No? Then why do it here? This is silly. If you don't want it then don't buy it. |
As I stated earlier, good companies appreciate constructive criticism from good customers. A company is in trouble if, as you suggest, people simply start walking away without voicing concerns.
Q. Just wondering Posi, where are the new dance emotes we were told would come with GR?
A. Positron: Whoops, my bad.
1387 badges, and counting
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No, probably not. But, in fairness to us posters here, we probably wouldn't have this second thread if there had been some sort of acknowledgment to the large negative feedback in the first from the mods.
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Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
Why do we need two threads of kvetching?
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Q. Just wondering Posi, where are the new dance emotes we were told would come with GR?
A. Positron: Whoops, my bad.
1387 badges, and counting
I hold no ill will toward the developers for creating a pack that I have absolutely no interest in purchasing.
I am also lacking the Valkyrie pack.
Am I supposed to be angry and bitter about this? I can't seem to muster any emotion toward it at all.
Be well, people of CoH.
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I would say chances are this is bait.|
Originally Posted by Exodus_V
Except all of the other packs included much more content then this pack. alot of peeps are eager to see how much/little content is in the next pack hoping this is not a new trend...time will tell.
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This is probably to draw out the criticism then they can run all the future content packs a little skimpier than they had been but beefier than this.
And the playerbase will love it, eat it up, and say, see they listened to us, instead of realizing they just got played by marketing.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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All that says to me is you're tired of the game and will probably leave anyway. The idea that a purely optional pack of extras being made available would actively encourage you to leave just proves you're not rational. |
Originally Posted by Hallowed
Given that I am one of those people who will consider leaving if we see another pack like this (by which I mean too few items at a high price-point), your statement is blatantly false.
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NCsoft is a business, they want to make money. They'll see people voting with their wallets and change their behavior to maximize revenue. This is an experiment. If this sells poorly they won't do another pure emote pack, or they'll make sure the emotes are way more compelling for a larger group of people. If it sells well, they'll do more.
Either way, nothing to get worked up over.
Oh, and as for me, I'll be passing on this. It was hard for me to imagine a pack that would appeal to me even less than the Wedding Pack, but this is it.
I've bought all the others though, and I have faith more cool stuff is in the works.
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
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When is it irrational to disagree with a business decision and vote with my wallet? What kind of nonsense says that a specific change shouldn't warrant me showing that I am not interested?|
Originally Posted by Sardan
All that says to me is you're tired of the game and will probably leave anyway. The idea that a purely optional pack of extras being made available would actively encourage you to leave just proves you're not rational.
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Also, I was in the opposite. I just came back to the game after a small break and have really enjoyed it, but this change is too much like the game I left to come back here for me to continue just throwing money at it. So come resub, I fully do intend to see if I should just play another game period.
It seems that people are forgetting that booster packs are NOT required for regular gameplay. Sure, some of them have useful small powers and nifty costume bits, but ultimately, they are fluff. Don't like that particular collection of Fluff? No worries. Not having it is not a disadvantage in any way.
Now, I'm not sure I'll buy this pack. Why? Mostly because I don't think I want it. I see this pack as something akin to the Wedding Pack. Some neat items, but nothing to write home about. Do I hate or blame the Devs for putting out something I don't think I want? Nope. Some people will want it, some will not.
Have I bought booster packs? Sure. In fact, take a look at that Picture over to the left. That is a character concept that could not exist without the Magic pack. Have I not purchased some of them. Sure.
It's your choice, its your cash.
Writer of In-Game fiction: Just Completed: My Summer Vacation. My older things are now being archived at Fanfiction.net http://www.fanfiction.net/~jwbullfrog until I come up with a better solution.
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First post i've seen in either thread about that ^ !|
Originally Posted by jwbullfrog
It seems that people are forgetting that booster packs are NOT required for regular gameplay.
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...this is all about content/price/possible new trend/lack of communication from the dev's plain and simple!
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Actually, I'm really enjoying the game again after a period of a few months where I played minimally. Not only that, but I purchased the GR boxed set for 4 of my friends and am re-organizing my SGs regular gaming night. So... wrong.|
Originally Posted by Sardan
All that says to me is you're tired of the game and will probably leave anyway.
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| The idea that a purely optional pack of extras being made available would actively encourage you to leave just proves you're not rational. |
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| NCsoft is a business, they want to make money. They'll see people voting with their wallets and change their behavior to maximize revenue. This is an experiment. If this sells poorly they won't do another pure emote pack, or they'll make sure the emotes are way more compelling for a larger group of people. If it sells well, they'll do more. |
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| Either way, nothing to get worked up over. |
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Oh, and as for me, I'll be passing on this. It was hard for me to imagine a pack that would appeal to me even less than the Wedding Pack, but this is it. I've bought all the others though, and I have faith more cool stuff is in the works.
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There has to be, IMO, in order for us to move from operating assumption to factual premise. Sure, a 'single-thing' pack will appeal to a smaller player base all things being equal. So long as either of use is working from a different operating assumption, both reasonable, we're going to end up at different conclusions.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
why does there have to be?
It's self evident that any pack containing a single 'thing' will reach a smaller audience than a pack containing multiple 'things' to broaden its appeal. |
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| While they'd obviously like it to sell well expecting it to deliver on the level of previous packs with inherently wider appeal would be wishful thinking of a profound sort. |
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I'm not seeing the relevance of this to my point. Whatever they push they're going to push to the same audience- the playerbase. Advertising a new product to the playerbase isn't proof of anything, other than we're the only customers they've got. |
What I was trying to convey was that at no point was the term 'niche' or 'limited' used. There was a general question about boosters, and there was a general reply about an upcoming booster announcement. Sure, it's an ad hoc Q&A, with no time to craft marketing-approved answers. But, I was simply trying to support my point questioning the intentionality of the PP's limited appeal.
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It still represents an investment of resources that requires a profit to justify. If they priced it 4.99 they'd move more units that pricing it 7.99, so why didn't they? I presume they have a clear understanding of the demand ceiling for this product and priced it accordingly. |
Several folks have made reasonable points that they would pass on buying the pack due to prohibitive price point. Others have indicated they are unhappy with the direction this pack signals to them. I'll ignore those folks who wanted costumes or powers, since no pack will please everybody. But, I think this is the first time we've seen such overwhelming protest against a booster price point.
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I'm not sure why you think it needs any. If it cost them 10,000 Simoleans to make and they have a solid understanding of the number of likely buyers, that will inform their price point. |
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| Widening the appeal increases costs. |
Of course they'd like to maximize revenue - that's an axiom we can both agree on.
But, as I noted above, they maintained the product as-is, despite the player feedback.Quote:
| I'm seeing it as an experiment to see if narrowly focused packs have an audience. If they wanted to go through the rigamarole of making a full pack, they'd have done it. There's a reason this one only has emotes and packs a seemingly outsized price tag. |
I'm pleased you haven't responded negatively to this pack -- believe me, I wish I didn't feel they way I feel (heh, and aren't emotions what largely drives us as consumers
). With previous boosters, Wedding Pack excepted, I was excited about them, really wanted them, and bought them immediately. After War Witch's comment of upcoming boosters in August's Q&A, I was waiting with anticipation for the pending details. Coming on the heels of GR, the PP really disappoints. They should be exciting the playerbase. If this was a deliberate niche pack as you suspect, the timing probably couldn't have been worse. I really think PS stepped in it here, marketing- and PR-wise.
You make some valid, and interesting points. You and I will likely end up agreeing-to-disagree, but I appreciate the respectful tone of the exchange.
As always, IMHO.
Q. Just wondering Posi, where are the new dance emotes we were told would come with GR?
A. Positron: Whoops, my bad.
1387 badges, and counting
Having read the first few pages of this thread, it appears many share my view that this was a very lackluster pack.
I did purchase it, but after seeing all it had to offer, I would be hard pressed to make a similar purchase in the future. I really hope this isn't the start of a trend, as others seem to think.
Add in a few Hawiian shirts (like the PPD wear), an overhead disco ball temp power (almost like the minor buff pets) and a few more emotes like a shoulder boombox option, or a lazer light show emote (using the lights from the club maps), or a DJ option (table with a record/mixing board on it). Charge the $9.99 if you want, but make it worthwhile. Heck, one or two of those things above (that mostly exist in game already and could have been modified to fit) would have probably made it worth the 8.
Overall, this pack was rather disappointing, and not worth the 8 bucks I paid for it. I hope this was just a fluke, and future packs will be back to the same high standards we've come to expect from you guys
"I play characters. I have to have a very strong visual appearance, backstory, name, etc. to get involved with a character, otherwise I simply won't play it very long. I'm not an RPer by any stretch of the imagination, but character concept is very important for me."- Back Alley Brawler
I couldn't agree more.
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Anyone who was going to buy GR just to get /e popdance is dangerously close to being dangerous |
Originally Posted by ricktu
NCsoft pulling things that were part of the GR beta and selling them seperately. It is dangerously close to bait and switch.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I am a counterexample to your statement. I have considered leaving because of this PR cluster-bork. Will I? No -- my sub is paid through June/2011, so I'm rather a captive customer at the moment. But, a seed has been planted that probably shouldn't have been.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Let's be realistic here- they aren't "considering leaving" any more than anyone else that flips out over some insignificant change or minor perceived slight.
Some folk will just seize any excuse for empty forum grandstanding. |
I'd like to think I haven't engaged in any grandstanding to date, but that my posts, whether you agree with them or not, have been reasoned and articulate.
Expressing displeasure with this pack (for whatever reason), doesn't necessarily make one a grandstander.
As always, IMHO.
Q. Just wondering Posi, where are the new dance emotes we were told would come with GR?
A. Positron: Whoops, my bad.
1387 badges, and counting
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As stated before, not buying this pack, as I don't think it's a good value for what it delivers. But with the quotes above, Nether - they had all the feedback in the announcement of the pack with quite a number saying "If it were cheaper, I would buy it." "I'm going to buy it" and "I absolutely won't no matter what the cost" seemed to be the minority responses there. |
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
It still represents an investment of resources that requires a profit to justify.
If they priced it 4.99 they'd move more units that pricing it 7.99, so why didn't they? I presume they have a clear understanding of the demand ceiling for this product and priced it accordingly. <trim> Widening the appeal increases costs. If lowering the price would indeed 'maximize revenue' they'd do it- why wouldn't they? I'm seeing it as an experiment to see if narrowly focused packs have an audience. If they wanted to go through the rigamarole of making a full pack, they'd have done it. There's a reason this one only has emotes and packs a seemingly outsized price tag. |
Market research? They had it in that thread. A boatload of it. And it wasn't acted on - either by increasing what's in the pack, or lowering the price of it. So you'll excuse me if I can't buy that as an excuse.
I too will be giving this pack a pass.
Value for price is simply lacking when compared to the previous booster packs.
Either lower the price or add content if you want my money.
http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes#
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Tsk tsk, now Nether. Many of us are intimately familiar with how businesses work. Because one may disagree with you, doesn't make one an uninformed rube.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
A lot of folk in this thread seem to be profoundly uninformed about how businesses work.
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Q. Just wondering Posi, where are the new dance emotes we were told would come with GR?
A. Positron: Whoops, my bad.
1387 badges, and counting
I suppose I have what's worse than anger: complete apathy. I haven't even used an emote for a few years now, just not my thing.
That said, I'm all for selling more micro level products that appeal to certain niches. An a la carte approach is perfectly fine for me. If it means the next pack costs slightly less because it doesn't include these emotes and I'm interested in whatever this next pack is, I'll be more likely to buy it.
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
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Originally Posted by jwbullfrog
It seems that people are forgetting that booster packs are NOT required for regular gameplay.
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Originally Posted by Exodus_V
First post i've seen in either thread about that ^ !
...this is all about content/price/possible new trend/lack of communication from the dev's plain and simple! |
i still fail to see what harm there is in people posting that while they won't buy a pack of 8 emotes for 75% of the cost of a booster pack that came with 4 emotes, dozens of costume pieces, and minor power, they would buy it if it was priced at 50% of what the prior packs cost.
And yet some posters insist that everyone should STFU unless they're either going to post constructive comments/criticism regarding the pack or report bugs with it. Since posting "I would consider buying the pack if it was about 50% instead of 75% of the price of the other packs for roughly 10% of the content of previous packs" isn't constructive criticism then apparently the only valid 'criticism' is to post "OMG I love pack, sell me more like it, but raise the price first!"
Anything else is simply unacceptable, and those telling everyone who doesn't love the pack to shut up probably can't figure out why no one is obeying them and are probably also wondering why all the posts saying the price seems a bit high for what you get aren't being immediately deleted by the mods. Life is just unfair sometimes.
Keep in mind that NCsoft and Paragon Studios are not directly analogous to a massive retail chain store that buys bulk lots of goods from factories and sells them at a markup. The Walmart analogy is a craptastic analogy since Walmart doesn't make the products they're packaging and selling.
Ah well, carry on.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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Anyone who knows what they're talking about please consider yourselves exempted. =)|
Originally Posted by Spatch
Tsk tsk, now Nether. Many of us are intimately familiar with how businesses work. Because one may disagree with you, doesn't make one an uninformed rube.
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I'd have provided a detailed list of miscreants but such pronouncements draw the mods like Banished Pantheon to a drum circle.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Emotes only booster pack... I guess someone thought that something like this could stand on it's own... The amusing part is, I'm sure they have an idea that the main reason people have bought the other booster packs in the past were because of these reasons... 1. Temp Powers 2. Costume Pieces. 3. Costume change emotes.
The wedding pack for example, had emotes AND costume pieces and sold pretty well maybe not as good as the other booster packs but it was worth buying for the costume pieces added, at least for me it was, I bought 3 of them
I am not disappointed there is a no red response, I just hope they are reading all the responses to this booster pack... I know that the devs count on these booster packs to be a success which in turn brings in money to allow them to do other things for the game... seems simple to me, give the people what they want, I have NO doubt many more people would have bought this if there were a few costume pieces in this booster pack. I know I would have
It's better to save the Mystery, than surrender to the secret...
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Wait, are we supposed to suddenly start taking the threats and complaints of forumgoers as some kind of gospel truth?|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
As stated before, not buying this pack, as I don't think it's a good value for what it delivers. But with the quotes above, Nether - they had all the feedback in the announcement of the pack with quite a number saying "If it were cheaper, I would buy it." "I'm going to buy it" and "I absolutely won't no matter what the cost" seemed to be the minority responses there.
Market research? They had it in that thread. A boatload of it. And it wasn't acted on - either by increasing what's in the pack, or lowering the price of it. So you'll excuse me if I can't buy that as an excuse. |
0.0
I ascribe to that old saying 'the proof of the pudding is in the eating'. The only way for them to know how an $8 booster full of emotes would actually sell was to offer a booster full of emotes for $8.
They engaged the complaints about the Mutant pack because what was delivered was counter to longtime forum expectations. With this pack, it seems pretty cut and dried- "here's a pack of emotes for 8 bucks". If they thought it would sell better at a lower price point they'd have released it at a lower price point. If they wanted to broaden its appeal by sticking in some costume bits or a power, they'd have done so.
The way things have played out leads me to the rather inevitable conclusion that *someone* wanted to see what kind of reception a narrowly focused pack would get.
*shrug*
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Hopefully, they add more functions to this pack. Personally, I should be able to pass the basketball or soccer to another person. The main reason why I got this pack because I like to use the /petsayall <em ...> command. Having Demons and Robots imitate Micheal Jackson is too much fun. Going to have to try them doing Disco. Have tempted to roll a Necro/ MM to put on a reasonable imitation of Thriller. Although I don't think the dance moves are the same.
The first step in being sane is to admit that you are insane.
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I couldn't get my pets to do the emotes last night. Are they supposed to be able to do these new ones?
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Originally Posted by starphoenix
Hopefully, they add more functions to this pack. Personally, I should be able to pass the basketball or soccer to another person. The main reason why I got this pack because I like to use the /petsayall <em ...> command. Having Demons and Robots imitate Micheal Jackson is too much fun. Going to have to try them doing Disco. Have tempted to roll a Necro/ MM to put on a reasonable imitation of Thriller. Although I don't think the dance moves are the same.
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total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Some folk will just seize any excuse for empty forum grandstanding.
Don't assume you know anything about people's motivations and willingness to act upon their convictions.